Fry Model Railway

[jhb171achill]

lets hope its all safely stored!!

 

That's what I was thinking. Can anyone elaborate on whereabouts / safety of actual models right now?

[murrayec]

Hi

 

The models are stored in the Writers Museum in town and the layout all dismantled is in a Fingal Co Co store...

 

There was a planning permission given for a restaurant change of use and a small dinning room extension in the yard between the existing house and the garage structure, back in 2006. This is the only location an extension can be constructed and there would not be enough space to install the layout- there is very little space on the site as the original gardens have been used for housing and apartment permissions- houses in courtyard style permission was granted in 2002 for the front garden, completely enclosing the listed house!!

 

If anything happens I personally think it will only be models, books and bits housed there with no layout! The site just does not have the space.

 

I've just checked the Fingal Co Co planning website and no application has been lodged

 

Eoin

[Noel]

If there wont be a layout it's dead as a viable economic visitor attraction.

[DERAILED]

The whole thing is so bloody typical of the way things are done down here and that's why we are left with nothing. The Fry Collection would be better sent north of the border where they know how to do things. Cultra, Downpatrick and soon Whitehead - all with museums - and we have a hay shed in Howth. I'm truly glad to be completely removed from the railway scene these days.

 

Incidentally, anybody with half a brain would think that bringing the Fry Collection back to Inchicore Works would be worth considering, but don't hold your breath.

[minister_for_hardship]

Political soundbite here.

Project is best described as being on a geological timescale.

 

http://www.northcountyleader.ie/2016/06/07/refurbishment-of-casino-malahide/

[jhb171achill]

The RPSI's new premises at Whitehead might well have room for some sort of layout, and it would indeed be a good home - though it would probably have been better accommodated there had it been includ in the planning stage.

 

There's no doubt, however, that the management of the whole Fry project from the day it left the castle has been a mish-mash of poor planning, lack of interest in a major asset, ignorance of a major asset, and short sightedness.

 

Setting a few of his models on a shelf somewhere is not only not financially viable - few of us even here would pay just to look, so forget the normal public - but also, it entirely misses the point of what Fry was trying to do. Those in whose care the stuff remains wouldn't have the first clue about this.

[minister_for_hardship]

We can have something as silly as a National Lepreachaun Museum in Dublin city centre but not this.

[jhb171achill]

Exactly!

[Noel]

The RPSI's new premises at Whitehead might well have room for some sort of layout, and it would indeed be a good home - though it would probably have been better accommodated there had it been includ in the planning stage.

 

There's no doubt, however, that the management of the whole Fry project from the day it left the castle has been a mish-mash of poor planning, lack of interest in a major asset, ignorance of a major asset, and short sightedness.

 

Setting a few of his models on a shelf somewhere is not only not financially viable - few of us even here would pay just to look, so forget the normal public - but also, it entirely misses the point of what Fry was trying to do. Those in whose care the stuff remains wouldn't have the first clue about this.

 

Agree static display won't cut it. If there is no layout action nobody will visit it.

[Garfield]

A rather vague Tweet posted on June 1st by Cllr Alan Lavin:

 

 

Presumably, a planning application will be lodged once this display period has passed. It's a pity there's no elaboration on what exactly will be on show (architect's drawings, model, etc.), and indeed where it will be on show.

 

Edit: I've been told Fingal County Council have the option to go the Part 8 route as opposed to a standard planning application.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Garfield

[murrayec]

Hi

 

I just posted that Tweet on the 'Fry Model Railway for Malahide' Facebook site asking the question if the display is going ahead and where- go on this page and 'Like' it's in the visitors post section

 

Eoin

[murrayec]

Hi

 

The Section 8 planning process is for planning exemption of alterations to a protected structure where there is not a material alteration- an extension is a serious material alteration so this should not be allowed- who knows when its the council applying!!

 

it will still go on the live planning register for public view and comment, I'm not sure of the process off hand- I'll have to look that one up...

 

 

Eoin

[Glenderg]

Hi

 

The Section 8 planning process is for planning exemption of alterations to a protected structure where there is not a material alteration- an extension is a serious material alteration so this should not be allowed- who knows when its the council applying!!

 

it will still go on the live planning register for public view and comment, I'm not sure of the process off hand- I'll have to look that one up...

 

 

Eoin

 

That's a Section 5 your thinking about Eoin (No online register of those). Section 8 is when the Council themselves go into partnership with a private developer and have to put it out for Public Consultation for their input. It goes straight to ABP rather than the Council, things like schools and the like are done this way, but it will be up on their frustratingly poor website at some stage.

[Blaine]

Setting a few of his models on a shelf somewhere is not only not financially viable - few of us even here would pay just to look, so forget the normal public - but also, it entirely misses the point of what Fry was trying to do. Those in whose care the stuff remains wouldn't have the first clue about this.

 

Once again Ill remind the congregation that none of Fry's models ran on the layout. They were the ones you see in the glass cases before you entered the room that housed the layout. Modellers would appreciate this, but Ma and Da and the kiddies wouldnt along with all the others looking to be entertained

 

No point in putting at whitehead, none whatsoever. Their new coffee shop will be the main attraction.

[Admin]

This was circulated by Paddy Kilduff.

 

Cyril Fry Model Railway Collection at the Casino, Malahide

 

Ladies and Gents,

As you may know, following a generous bequest of Euro 1.5M Fingal County Council undertook to display this Cyril Fry Model Railway Collection at the Casino, Malahide.

 

The collection consisted of (a) six 2/3 ft models of locomotives and (b) a working railway layout of 396 items - model trains, Dublin trams and Guinness Liffey barges and three Irish railway stations built, coordinated and all operating to scale.

 

Fingal Co Co have just published their Casino plans and sadly they do not include the working railway layout, which had captured the imagination of Dublin transportation of yore. This historic working model railway layout is what everyone would want to see; children, parents, grandparents and of course enthusiasts; not something in a glass case on a shelf.

 

Many interested bodies and associations are objecting to this scandalous omission.

 

Please join us in asking that these plans be reconsidered and rectified by sending an email to thechiefexecutive@fingal.ie or by contacting Mr Paul Reid, Chief Executive, Fingal Co Co. Many thanks for your attention and hopefully your help. Joseph D Gunning (XEI, RPSI)

Edited August 8, 2016 by BosKonay

[Noel]

What a total disaster and mess up. No working layout means no kids, no families, no footfall, no revenue, and probably failure and eventual closure. What a shame the generous 1.5m donation will be wasted and not used as intended by the visionary donor. Surely the current custodians of this historic layout can find another tourism interest or commercial operator anywhere in Ireland to put this layout back on display. Models in glass display cases won't cut it. Shame on the local authority.

[minister_for_hardship]

Not having a working layout is like having stuffed animals on display in Dublin Zoo, or being offered a pint of lemonade in the Guinness Storehouse.

 

It seems nothing can be done in this country without stuffing it up.

[Old Blarney]

Fellow Members,

 

Did the Gentleman who bequeathed money to reinstate the Fry Collection and the Working Model Railway stipulate in his will how his bequest should be used?

 

Did the Will of the Deceased contain conditions that must be met, and if so, what are these conditions?

 

Have the Beneficiaries made public the conditions under which they received the money?

 

If there are conditions, stipulations, requests in the will of the Deceased do we know what they are?

 

Have any requests for this information been lodged with the beneficiaries?

 

Just a few thoughts?

Edited August 9, 2016 by Old Blarney

[murrayec]

Hi

 

The above notice appeared on the 'Fry Model Railway for Malahide' facebook page today and TD Darragh O'Brien posted shortly after;-

''Hi this has been clarified today. The council have confirmed verbally that the exhibition will include working models. The plans and design for the Fry Model railway exhibition itself are due for out in October. Myself and Cllr. Eoghan O'Brien have also sought written confirmation of this and once we have it we will send it to you.......''

 

What this actually means is not clear, and the notice is credited to Joe Gunning on the facebook page and not Paddy Kilduff?

 

There is nothing posted on the Fingal Co Co website!

 

Old Blarney

 

The chap left the money for the Fry Model and a larger sum for the restoration of the Casino House. It is tied to the two projects proceeding and that the Fry Model is housed in the Casino, as far as I know the Council went through legal discussions last year with the man's estate for verification.

 

There is a post back in this thread on this

 

Eoin

Edited August 9, 2016 by murrayec

[murrayec]

Hi

 

Darragh O'Brien posted up the following link on Facebook;-

 

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/proposed-refurbishment-and-extension-casino-building-protected-structure-and-associated

 

This is the Part 8 public notice of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 - 2015 for the Casino/Fry project. There are pdf drawings on this page and the Ground Floor Plan (see below)indicates an extension to the dwelling, to house the Fry collection. The area would not be big enough to house the existing layout but could provide space for a smaller layout!!

 

Please note;- there is a button on the page if you want to lodge a submission on the information proposed, note that your submission should be based on the information proposed only, if one goes into a rant about all that has gone by, your submission may not be valid- so stick to referring to the proposal as much as possible- me thinks....

 

 

Eoin

[BosKonay]

Any idea how much square footage will be layout?

[David]

Looks to be about 60ft x 30ft. Still enough space for a hefty layout! Does anyone know who they have selected to handle the model making?

 

I have to say, if the original layout is pretty much a total rebuild, I'd much prefer to see a monster OO gauge layout.

[jhb171achill]

Lets hope so. It would be good also to occasionally see some of Fry's originals running - maybe on designated days.

[Mayner]

An interactive section with Lego or a Wooden railway and working models demonstrating the inner working of a loco (like in the Science Museum London) would be a big hit for families with small children and school groups.

 

My daughter made a bee line for the Thomas & Chuggington wooden railways at museums and heritage railways visited in the United States while the adults perused full sized exhibits, layouts and dioramas.

 

Like most museums commercial success depends on the café and gift shop.

[murrayec]

Hi

 

Here is an extract from the Ground Floor drawing above, I calculate the extension area at 133sqm and have indicated a 'Layout' (toned light brown) in the centre of this area with less than adequate public circulation!

 

The layout area in this configuration would be 56sqm/620sqft - not ideal as the public would be on top of the layout with the lack of circulation- no barrier space.

 

 

Items in my opinion lacking in the proposal;

 

Due consideration not given on the extension design in relation to the width of a Gauge O layout, mainly the width of the extension to provide good Layout space with good viewing aspect to all sides of the layout, decent public circulation and barrier space.

 

No consideration given to the running of a layout- 'Workshop and Storage Facility', this will be required for the running/setup of trains and construction/maintenance of all running parts of the Layout. And especially the care and maintenance of the Fry Models- this could also be a feature of the museum?

 

Poor consideration given to the extension design, this should be an integral part of the museum visiting experience and should also be in more architectural agreement with the Casino House design- as the Casino is not to far off a railway scene in gone by years and so it is with the Fry Models. They should capitalise on this and bring the new building into the Railway Layout and compliment the Casino House design.

 

Poor consideration given to public facilities, the layout seems to indicate outside toilets- I cant believe this is the intention, so I must be reading the drawing incorrectly. I hope!

 

Poor consideration given for staff facilities.

 

One also has to consider that these layout drawings were prepared for the Part 8 public notice of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001 - 2015- and may go through design reviews/revisions before construction.

 

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

The whole thing looks ever more like a committee-designed dog's dinner..... what a mess.

 

Incidentally, anyone know if Fry's daughter is still alive?

[murrayec]

I received communication from Fingal Co Co regarding revisions to the proposed Casino/Fry Model development as follows;-

''Dear Sir /Madam,

In accordance with Part XI of the Planning & Development Act 2000 - 2015 and Part 8 of the Local Government (Planning & Development) Regulations 2001-2015 and on behalf of our Client Department in Fingal County Council, Economic, Enterprise and Tourism Development, we are writing to acknowledge your submission at planning stage, and report on the outcome of the planning process .

A Chief Executives Report in relation to the planning proposal was brought to the Howth/ Malahide Local Area Services B Committee Meeting on 7th December 2016. Agenda Item 7A. This report including associated drawings is available on the Council’s Website http://meetings.fingal.ie/documents/s35335/Item%20No.%207a%20-%20Casino%20Building.pdf and we enclose a copy for your information.

 

You will note that minor amendments were proposed to reflect concerns raised in the public observations received. The amendments will also provide more flexible spaces for an exhibition layout. The proposed amendments increase the internal floor area of the extension by 35 sqm. The overall appearance, scale and location of the buildings remains consistent with the original published documentation.

The proposed amendments are described in outline as follows:

The outbuilding will be physically connected to the new extension and all buildings on the site will now be under single roof- not separate buildings as before. This will allow greater scope for more working train layouts and more exhibition space in keeping with the general submissions received commenting on possible layout.

 

The proposed café use for the Outbuilding was to be the subject to a detailed business plan, it is now proposed that the extension to provide a separate kitchen area will be omitted which limits the potential for a significant cáfe on the site – the outdoor amenity area associated with the original proposal will also be reduced in scale and relocated in the interest of residential amenity. Scope remains to provide a limited coffee shop within the outbuilding with access to reduced extent of outdoor amenity area subject to detailed business plan. Overall the proposed amendments change the proposal by increasing the floor area of the extension from 225 sqm to 260 sqm.

These amendments were made to address the concerns raised about the scale of exhibition area proposed, and reducing possible impact on residential amenity at the Casino apartment development.

 

Amended drawings describing the proposed changes are highlighted:

15-189-p-101_r: Site Location Map (Existing)

15-189-p-102_A: Site Layout Plan (Proposed)

15-189-p-103_r: Existing Site Plan, Ground Floor & First Floor Plans & Elevations

15-189-p-104_A: Proposed Ground Floor Plan & Elevation facing South East

15-189-p-105_A: Proposed First Floor Plan & Elevation facing North West

15-189-p-106_A: Elevations and Section

15-189-p-107_r Proposed Landscaping Layout

 

Following discussion at the Howth Malahide Services B meeting, the Local Area Committee members recommended that the report and amended proposal was adopted by the Full Council at its meeting on Monday 12th December 2016 (Agenda Item 23). The client department now intends to proceed with developing the proposal as amended.''

 

A pdf file of the full reply is attached and includes drawings. Bottom line is they have increased the display area by 35sqm for a layout but it is still a narrow hall. They have confirmed that no workshop facility will be provided and all work n maintenance will be done after hours or at another location. And very important- the toilets are now indoors!!

 

Eoin

2016.12.07 CE Report to LAC.pdf

[Colin R]

you need to get this into the British model and heritage railway press and may be some one like Pete Waterman with all his contacts might be able to help.

 

To be honest going to see this collection would have been one of the main reasons for coming to Ireland for a holiday.

[murrayec]

Hi Colin R

 

Would not be much use! the Co Co have ownership and are adamant that the project proceeds as outlined above. There was an opportunity for a serious say in the matter by the public but sadly only a small amount of people- can be counted on two hands, made submissions...

 

The Fry Models will be shown here, if the project proceeds, so don't put off that visit, it just wont be as good as it could be!

 

Eoin

[murrayec]

Hi All

This months BRM magazine has a mention of the Fry Model in an interview with 'The Little Layout Company'- in response to the question about working on layouts it's mentioned that they are looking at a ''Colin Fry Layout''! that's kept at ''Dublin Castle''!, the interviewee goes on to say- 'the room that it's in was getting damp and the layout started getting destroyed, but they want us to go over there and put it back together in a new purpose built exhibition area....

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

If I was "they", I'd get someone with a little more knowledge, and someone LOCAL who would know what they are trying to recreate!

There are personages on this very forum with at the very least the same skills, so perhaps "they" might take note!

I'm sure Cedric Fry or Cyril Frog would agree. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by jhb171achill

[murrayec]

Hi JHB

We made an attempt to offer our assistance to the project group to aid and support the cause to get the Fry Model out of storage, this was done before the design plans were made, but we were told that they would be delighted to talk with us after the design was complete!.....

I made a submission during the planning process, to my amazement they did take on board some of my comments- additional 35sqm added to the exhibit area and revised the toilets to be internal! to mention a few.  But alas these will not be enough as they do not realise what they have......

Eoin

 

[heirflick]

53 minutes ago, murrayec said:

Hi JHB

We made an attempt to offer our assistance to the project group to aid and support the cause to get the Fry Model out of storage, this was done before the design plans were made, but we were told that they would be delighted to talk with us after the design was complete!.....

I made a submission during the planning process, to my amazement they did take on board some of my comments- additional 35sqm added to the exhibit area and revised the toilets to be internal! to mention a few.  But alas these will not be enough as they do not realise what they have......

Eoin

Is the building near completion Eoin?

 

[murrayec]

Hi heirflick

Last I checked about 3 months ago nothing had happened

Eoin

[minister_for_hardship]

Clusterfudge.