Horsetan Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Some classic passing of the oul buck going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 "...Smells of fudge. Quelle surprise... " Or fish..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Im surprised people are still concerned about this well sunken ship.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Im surprised people are still concerned about this well sunken ship.... some like to throw life rafts in the hope of saving lost souls, others pass by on their wicker yachts quaffing champers. Keep sailing ed, I'll keep keep chucking out the lifeboats to these causes. Where is the stock being held? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Where is the stock being held? Hi Glenderg It's here, well at least 4 months ago it was;- Dublin Writers Museum | Fáilte Ireland | | 18 Parnell Square North | Dublin 1| T: +353 (0)1 8722077 W: http://www.writersmuseum.com Curator;- Robert Nicholson murrayec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 some like to throw life rafts in the hope of saving lost souls, others pass by on their wicker yachts quaffing champers. Keep sailing ed, I'll keep keep chucking out the lifeboats to these causes. Your missing my point, its a poisoned chalice and there is still a queue for a sip beside the pile of bodies. There have been several people/groups all with good intentions and nothing has come of any of them. The only good thing is that the Fry collection itself is now safely stored. Most of this was the collection in the glass cases before you viewed the layout itself, which from a modelling perspective was far far better than some of the items running on the layout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 True. Some of the models actually running - the modern ones, not Fry's actual models - were extremely poor. Fry himself, an absolute stickler for perfection and accuracy, wouldn't have recognised them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Most of this was the collection in the glass cases before you viewed the layout itself' date=' which from a modelling perspective was far far better than some of the items running on the layout[/quote'] I think you're being very kind there. I'm no master modeller myself as we all know but I think it's fair to say that some of the modern stuff that ran on they layout was ruddy awful. Probably the best solution would be for the fry stuff to go into the hands of a custodian like one of the clubs who would have enough experienced members to look after the models and be in a position to run open days for the public to view the models. Whether the clubs would want that level of responsibility or have the room to do such a thing is another matter mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenderg Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Your missing my point, A glib comment about "sinking ships" is not a valid contribution to the discussion, so of course I missed it. As I see it - the stock is being "husbanded" in Parnell Square by a body who have no interest in displaying it, even allowing private viewing for research purposes, which is beyond wrong. The calibre of the stock may be of varying standard, but it's the entire collection that matters. Secondly, there's a problem with a site to house it. While money was willed to put it in the Casino in Malahide, that simply cannot happen. The planning constraints have already been outlined. So you're looking for a building, preferably in the city centre of Dublin, close transport links, up to scratch with Universal Access regs, and requires little outlay (relatively) to set up. It also would help if it were owned by the state or one of it's companies like CIE. LMS on North Wall would be perfect, but in need of serious work to bring it up to a standard. So have a think about it lads. Find the building, then write your letters to TD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 As I see it - the stock is being "husbanded" in Parnell Square by a body who have no interest in displaying it, even allowing private viewing for research purposes, which is beyond wrong. The calibre of the stock may be of varying standard, but it's the entire collection that matters. Anyone who took over custodianship of the collection would have to be committed to displaying it as part of a deal, not just private viewings. Anything is a lot better than it sitting in boxes somewhere in god knows what state. It wouldn't necessarily have to be Parnell Sq. either. I think experienced modellers who know just how important and delicate these models are would be the best people to look after it. You can almost forget this find a big building in the city centre and all will be good pie in the sky. It's just not going to happen. The only place feasible would be Busaras and that was shot down by machine guns the last time it was mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) The only place feasible would be Busaras and that was shot down by machine guns the last time it was mentioned. The National Museum was bandied about as a venue and they were having none of it, unsurprisingly. They do have this little gem, probably gathering dust in the bowels of a storage room, was it from the Fry collection originally or where did it come from? http://www.museum.ie/en/list/artefacts.aspx?article=6be86067-a764-4507-9907-7891c46f455a Edited May 2, 2014 by minister_for_hardship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 What size is that model? If it's about 3 to 5 inch gauge, I may have details regarding its ancestry. The livery is presumably that of the DWWR (?), as the DSER used lined black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRENNEIRE Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I didn't want to get involved in this thread as it is very near to my heart Woe to the Pharisees, for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen, for neither does he eat nor does he let the oxen eat A statement that covers both ends of this discussion I worked in Malahide when the Fry came and when it went The visitor numbers were never sufficient to cover the cost of the display Some of the biggest crowds were in the weeks before it closed forever I don't agree that it was its location that was the problem but lack of proper advertising and also a proper tourist set up to bring visitors A train out to Malahide and a lovely walk in the magnificent grounds of the Castle? Look at some of the preserved sites around the country, most are hard to get to but you will always meet a few codgers like yourself at these sites Nothing will happen with the collection, it will fall into rack and ruin Fingal will not build a custom center for the railway, too dear and no return on the cost I think our only hope is Bosko............ Edited May 2, 2014 by WRENNEIRE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Woe to the Pharisees, for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen, for neither does he eat nor does he let the oxen eat A statement that covers both ends of this discussion I worked in Malahide when the Fry came and when it went The visitor numbers were never sufficient to cover the cost of the display I dont agree that it was its location that was the problem but lack of proper advertising and also a proper tourist set up to bring visitors A train out to Malahide and a lovely walk in the magnificent grounds of the Castle? Look at some of the preserved sites around the country, most are hard to get to but you will always meet a few codgers like yourself at these sites Nothing will happen with the collection, it will fall into rack and ruin Fingal will not build a custom centre for the railway, too dear and no return on the cost I think our only hope is Bosko............ I fear that the Oracle has spoken. Brand Central in Rathdowney is empty and available.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) What size is that model? If it's about 3 to 5 inch gauge, I may have details regarding its ancestry. The livery is presumably that of the DWWR (?), as the DSER used lined black. No details apart from those given by an 'expert' in the NM. 'Model Steam Train Engine; number 22. The Dublin to Wexford railway line. This route was constructed by the Sharp Stewart Company of Manchester, 1865. Re-built in 1891.' Edited May 2, 2014 by minister_for_hardship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hi A well known modeller was employed recently to re-wheel some of the diesel stock and he told me that some of the original Fry items are to fragile now to run, hence they were displayed in cases. It is unfortunate that some poor models were added to the layout, but I think it was done with good intentions, a way to keep models running on the layout and preserve the original ones! I agree with Glenderg- we should throw lifelines, if we all sit back and grump nothing will happen. Send an email to the minister's office, the link is above. and do it again in a couple of months. murrayec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 I think you're being very kind there. I'm no master modeller myself as we all know but I think it's fair to say that some of the modern stuff that ran on they layout was ruddy awful. Probably the best solution would be for the fry stuff to go into the hands of a custodian like one of the clubs who would have enough experienced members to look after the models and be in a position to run open days for the public to view the models. Whether the clubs would want that level of responsibility or have the room to do such a thing is another matter mind you. The problem with this forum is that if you speak out and knock anyone/anything you get shot down. To be fair I really couldnt give a rats anymore about the Fry collection, given that I came close to being employed by the council to be involved in running and maintaining the layout and its models. The message I got very quickly, especially from the dope who worked there already (I was to work alongside him) was that this was entirely commercial, anyone who showed a valid interest in the models or railways in general should not be employed, lest they give a damn about anything, be it the quality of models on display, or their running. Its like holding expos, people just want to see trains run - no emphasis on detail,accuracy etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The problem with this forum is that if you speak out and knock anyone/anything you get shot down. As I tell people in the day job Ed, it depends how the message is packaged. Constructive criticism is welcome as is encouragement when appraisal is sought on someone's work. Us mod folk don't enjoy picking up toys that have been thrown out of the pram. Your anecdote regarding the previous Fry set-up tells us all that needs to be known about the current custodians. We know something needs to 'wash its face' as they say but it should not be to the detriment of the pieces in the collection and/or what it is meant to symbolise, hence my suggestion that the more important pieces be cared for by people who understand and appreciate their significance rather than some jobsworth who couldnt give a rats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 The Fry is a great example of one mans 'dream' 'ruined' by committee and then mothballed through somewhat lack of vision (or certainly of a champion). Even Dun Laoghaire Harbour company offered to provide space to accommodate the exhibition (where there is now a very good Shackleton exhibit) I guess the only concern is that the 'original' models suffer damage through neglect or worse still, never see the light of day again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshty Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Let's be reductionist on this. The bulk of Fry's original work was on display in the Anteroom. What was it, 20' x 20' at most? So in effect Dublin Council/Dept of Arts whatever, yadda yadda, can't organise at the very least some equivalent municipal space somewhere in Dublin Centre? Even as an interim measure, this would beat having it in out of sight in storage. Full working version...another battle for another day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It's an excellent point Westhy. I think by todays standards, the 'working' exhibit would be an antique. The only real value is in the original models as display pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 ....So in effect Dublin Council/Dept of Arts whatever, yadda yadda, can't organise at the very least some equivalent municipal space somewhere in Dublin Centre?.... Can those fellas organise a piss-up in a brewery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
closetmodeller Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 As one of the then members of Dublin County Council who voted to accept and maintain the Fry Collection as a public exhibition, and as one who personally knew Fry and visited him at Churchtown, I have long been concerned at the failure of the authorities to honour the word we gave the Frys. The time has come for positive political action. Are any of your interested? I would propose beginning with Enda, to whom I am well known. I would hope for a serious response, (Please, no "sore-arserie"!) Myles Tierney, FPRII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weshty Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the feedback Boskonay. Myles, if pressure is to be applied, a viable plan should be fully laid out prior to any formal advocacy. One thing I see as key is due diligence done to understand what are the political, legalistic, elf and safety and parochial roadblocks that have lead to the current stalemate so as to counteract them. As I suggested, 400 square foot of municipal space, secure, cctv'd, all items behind glass Probably integrated within an existing museum or library space Temple Bar Ark, Collins Barracks, National museum. See this search link for the range of municipal buildings available. http://www.visitdublin.com/See_and_Do/tours_attractions/Museums_and_Galleries_in_Dublin Or an ante room in one of the transport hubs, Heuston Station, Busaras basement Do you make it free or charged which would require staff (another roadblock) An understanding that this is an interim / complementary measure until the working version is up. Personally I think Malahide is a non starter. When I visited in 2010 I was amazed at just how long it took to get there from the city centre, even with a car and with all the motorway structure in place, it is 10 miles. Take the train and you still have a 30 minute walk to the Castle. It would get a lot more footfall and exposure in the city centre. Just my thoughts. Exposure via Facebook, Twitter petition, Causes.com (integrates with Facebook, allows seamless send on) Oh, and yes, I'd like to help. Edited June 13, 2014 by Weshty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbonnet Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I'd be game Myles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Me too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Hi Myles I'm in for sure, and as discussed previously with you I can bring project management/architectural skills to the cause. As Westhy comments above we need to formulate a plan as to the best way to proceed, set the goal/agenda;- I do agree that the Casino project is not right, it amalgamates two causes which are stand alone in themselves. Putting them together costs to much money and each influences the outcome of the other- which, as we can see, nothing has happened. I agree that integration with an existing system is the most likely way to get the models back on display, it would not incur costs like the Casino project if existing space could be allocated. City central, adjacent or within transport hub, and existing museums are ideal, because they already have visitor systems set-up, car and bus parking, public transport and it's where the people are. I feel and others have suggested above- a staged process is correct, initially get the models back on display, and then work on the running layout. We need more input from people, I have sent a few emails to groups and individuals that have been involved before to see if they will comment here. If we wait for a short period to see the responses and then possibly meet to see how to progress 'positive political action' Eoin Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I'm interested in this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Hi This has been posted up before, but thought it should be again;- [video=youtube_share;njebdxb2tbc] murrayec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I will help in any way I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
closetmodeller Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Thanks for the responses. I do not have any fixed ideas as to how the models should be displayed. I tend to agree that the important models are those Fry himself made [as I would his Churchtown Rd layout, were it still in existence]. The later models are now valuable, too, but the old Fry models should receive initial attention. The important thing now is to publicise our purpose, collect names of supporters and promote awareness of the very important nature of the Fry Collection. Then we need answers to each of the following questions: Where are the models, at what address and who has lawful custody of them? Why are they not on static display, at the very least? We then need to constitute ourselves into a formal group, with someone to "lead the charge" [i am too old], having a proper corresspondence address, etc. We should then meet in delegation the CEO of the organisation have legal custody of the Collection. The outcome of that meeting will determine what then follows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I am willing to help in any way I can. It's such a shame that it has been left in storage for so long and the longer it stays that way the less will be done about it. We do need to take positive action to save it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broithe Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 It's such a shame that it has been left in storage for so long and the longer it stays that way the less will be done about it. This is very true. Where I live, the Council spent a lot of our money carefully dismantling and storing an Elizabethan pub that had to be demolished for a road scheme, with the intention of rebuilding it somewhere else - thirty years later they admitted that they had 'lost' it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murrayec Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Hi Myles As far as I understand the models and layout are in the ownership of The Irish Tourisim Board - Fáilte Ireland. The models are stored at the Dublin Writers Museum | Fáilte Ireland | | 18 Parnell Square North | Dublin 1| T: +353 (0)1 8722077 W: http://www.writersmuseum.com Curator;- Robert Nicholson Where the layout sections are I'm not sure, but I know a man who can tell me, I get back on this one. Eoin Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DERAILED Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 The elephant in the room here is Inchicore Railway Works - acres of space - close to the City Centre and with the former (listed) running sheds an obvious location. Sadly, with the useless politicians we have there's no chance. With the stroke of a pen Varadkar and Deenihan could put this thing in motion in the morning. You have my best wishes but I've no energy anymore for this kind of project. http://archiseek.com/2010/1846-irish-rail-works-inchicore-dublin/#.U538zZRdXiU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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