Mol_PMB Posted January 30 Posted January 30 I need to get a couple more green ones ordered, still hoping to see some more photos of those. 2
GSR 800 Posted January 30 Posted January 30 2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: I need to get a couple more green ones ordered, still hoping to see some more photos of those. Same as myself!
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 From what's shown on the AS website for the green ones, with livery based on the artwork and door type based on the text, the options are: IRM1212 1379 - green with green ends and silver underframe, original inward-opening doors IRM1215 1383 - green with black ends and silver underframe, original inward-opening doors IRM1213 1388 - green with green ends and silver underframe, original inward-opening doors IRM1214 1402 - green with black ends and silver underframe, modified outward-opening doors As yet, it's not clear whether these are dark green or light green or some of each. The artwork looks dark green for all, but the sample we've seen upthread (1402) looked light green. I haven't yet seen a model sample with the original type doors, or with green ends. So I'm eagerly awaiting the promised update so that I can place my additional order for these (to add to the 5 I've already bought and paid for).
Metrovik Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Just gonna throw out a question in case somebody may know the answer. While at least one of the examples on the Waterford and tramore was converted into a driving trailer for the AEC railcars, would anyone be able to shed some light upon which of the green liveried options would be most similar? (Although I suspect they're all different in reality...)
jhb171achill Posted January 31 Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Metrovik said: Just gonna throw out a question in case somebody may know the answer. While at least one of the examples on the Waterford and tramore was converted into a driving trailer for the AEC railcars, would anyone be able to shed some light upon which of the green liveried options would be most similar? (Although I suspect they're all different in reality...) The five vehicles which went there were all the lighter green livery. All the ancient older (locomotive-hauled) coaches there previously were the 1945 darker green. 1
jhb171achill Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Interesting you mention it. I was considering ordering a 2-car set, but it would have to be the correct livery agreed in advance. The CIE green-era liveries produced by Silverfox continue to be wrong in every single detail, despite them being given the correct info several times. The green is wrong for either the 1945 or 1955 liveries - it looks more BR green to me. The lining and logos are white - they should be pale green. The roofs, worst of all, are pale grey. They should be black. If SF are prepared to do this thing in the correct livery, and that’s not a big ask - it’s patently and obviously doable - then I’d order one. If not, I wouldn’t - who here would buy a Silverfox Hunslet if it was green, brown and pink? 2
Mol_PMB Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) On 31/1/2026 at 1:22 PM, Metrovik said: Just gonna throw out a question in case somebody may know the answer. While at least one of the examples on the Waterford and tramore was converted into a driving trailer for the AEC railcars, would anyone be able to shed some light upon which of the green liveried options would be most similar? (Although I suspect they're all different in reality...) The W&T driving trailer was 1408 and the intermediate was 1407. IRM are actually offering 1407 in their range, but in much later 1980s condition [corrected - I had got the numbers the wrong way round in my original post] One of the difficulties in answering this question is that we need a bit more info from IRM to know what each of the green models look like. We always have to be very careful with shades of green in older photos, but this railcar looks like a dark green. Park Royal hiding behind the wall on the right. There is a nice colour photo in 'Irish Railways in the 1950s and 1960s' (McCormack) page 125 showing a W+T train in 1957 formed of all 5 'modern' vehicles - 3 AEC railcars and 2 Park Royals. Led by 2659 which also appears to be dark green, though the second AEC looks lighter. Edited Thursday at 08:57 by Mol_PMB Correction - 1408 was the driving trailer 3 1
Metrovik Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Was not expecting such comprehensive replies within 15 minutes! Many thanks gents. 1
GM073 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 On 30/1/2026 at 8:49 AM, DJ Dangerous said: Whose order is that? Jaysus, it’s tiny! These are gonna be epic. The Park Royals really do cater to a wide audience. Yeah, damn, quintessentially Irish! Absolutely oodles of character and nostalgia! We’re blessed with the squad at IRM, in absolute fairness. The delay is because we can be sure they have a goal and they have a standard they insist on, and frankly we can be thankful for that. But holy cow, what a waiting period. End of March, hmmm ok. That’s 55 sleeps. 1
Horsetan Posted February 4 Posted February 4 On 30/1/2026 at 5:43 PM, Mol_PMB said: I need to get a couple more green ones ordered, still hoping to see some more photos of those. As usual, I've gone for the two that are preserved: one green, the other black 'n tan 28 minutes ago, GM073 said: .... End of March, hmmm ok. That’s 55 sleeps. Could be March '27.... 1
GM073 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 On 31/1/2026 at 1:32 PM, jhb171achill said: Interesting you mention it. I was considering ordering a 2-car set, but it would have to be the correct livery agreed in advance. The CIE green-era liveries produced by Silverfox continue to be wrong in every single detail, despite them being given the correct info several times. The green is wrong for either the 1945 or 1955 liveries - it looks more BR green to me. The lining and logos are white - they should be pale green. The roofs, worst of all, are pale grey. They should be black. If SF are prepared to do this thing in the correct livery, and that’s not a big ask - it’s patently and obviously doable - then I’d order one. If not, I wouldn’t - who here would buy a Silverfox Hunslet if it was green, brown and pink? Yeah, in fairness at some point you’re gonna end up asking yourself what do you get for your buck. I just got a set of 2600 Push-pulls and tbh, I’m a bit disappointed. Lifted the coach and felt just how thin the sides are. Before I had it in the rails, twice, an axle fell out of its bogie. But anyhow, hey ho, it’s a made-to-order RTR model of a particularly niche model. I’m gonna remove the coupling on the dvt, add the skirt, modify the buffers, possibly the headlight, and add some vacuum hoses. 3
jhb171achill Posted February 4 Posted February 4 It's one of these cases that if that's all there is available, we may take it or leave it! Was thinking of getting a green one, but only if he did the right livery.
Mol_PMB Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Capturing the compound curves on the ‘face’ of an AEC is a challenge in model form, and Silver Fox haven’t nailed it in my view. If/when I build one, I’ll chicken out and model a Wedgehead! 1
Mike 84C Posted February 4 Posted February 4 The set we had on Bantry had all the problems of wheels dropping out of the bogies, reproduction drive shafts on the bogies dropping off and the sides parted company from the floor on one of the coaches. Some of the parts are made of a type of plastic thats very hard to glue maybe its nylon? And they feel very flimsy. Rather disappointing. Would I buy another? only if the price was right. 2 1
Horsetan Posted February 5 Posted February 5 43 minutes ago, Mike 84C said: ...Some of the parts are made of a type of plastic thats very hard to glue maybe its nylon?... That sounds very much like the flexi plastic that Lima used to use for bogies and underframes; it was all but impossible to glue. 2
GSR 800 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Capturing the compound curves on the ‘face’ of an AEC is a challenge in model form, and Silver Fox haven’t nailed it in my view. If/when I build one, I’ll chicken out and model a Wedgehead! Something for 3d printing I've thought, unless IRM gets ahead of the ball. I've the Worsley kit, very much dreading the ends! Long list of to do's before I ever get to the AEC though so its a future me problem! 3
jhb171achill Posted February 5 Posted February 5 These things are absolutely essential for a 1950s or 1960s CIE, GNR or UTA / NIR (GNR area) layout - as much so as an ICR today. I hope IRM do one some day, but I am under no illusion that it won't be this year, next, nor the several after. Until then, the wrongly-liveried, unreliable, pricey (for what you get) and fragile Silverfox one is the only thing going. On that basis i am still considering ordering one, however, provided he does it in correct CIE green livery. Jury remains out at Dugort Harbour............. another thing from that era that few if any models seem to get exactly right, though it should be easy, is a B101 "Birmingham Sulzer". 2
GSR 800 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, jhb171achill said: These things are absolutely essential for a 1950s or 1960s CIE, GNR or UTA / NIR (GNR area) layout - as much so as an ICR today. I hope IRM do one some day, but I am under no illusion that it won't be this year, next, nor the several after. Until then, the wrongly-liveried, unreliable, pricey (for what you get) and fragile Silverfox one is the only thing going. On that basis i am still considering ordering one, however, provided he does it in correct CIE green livery. Jury remains out at Dugort Harbour............. another thing from that era that few if any models seem to get exactly right, though it should be easy, is a B101 "Birmingham Sulzer". I nearly think if you're going to dish out money for a sub par product you'd be better having a go yourself. Nothing worse than spending anything in the realm of 300 quid for something thats naff. At least if its your own attempt you have nobody to blame but yourself I presume IRM will do the AEC at some point, but it does raise something I've been thinking about for quite a while. Regarding modelling in rtr, Railcars are twice as expensive to design, build, etc compared to locos. On top of this, (more so the case for later, fixed sets, I suppose for the AEC you could make the driving trailers and hitch up whatever the hell you want in between) railcars are generally significantly longer and less flexible than a loco. For smaller layouts, therefore, railcars can seem quite oversized. One of Cyril Freezers books he mentions the 'ideal' mainline train one can pull off. His suggestion was to have a standard 'baseline' set of four coaches, ideal for stopping services, suburban work, the like. For an Express/Intercity, add a dining saloon/kitchen car, for a mail train add a TPO, a sleeper train add a sleeper. So the 'maximum' was a five car train while allowing plenty of variation. I think of the full length modern railcars and can only gulp at how oversized they'd look on layouts designed to handle 'reduced' trains. Edited February 5 by GSR 800 2 1
Mayner Posted February 5 Posted February 5 7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Capturing the compound curves on the ‘face’ of an AEC is a challenge in model form, and Silver Fox haven’t nailed it in my view. If/when I build one, I’ll chicken out and model a Wedgehead! It seems that the Park Royal coach builders struggled to build the AEC railcars in accordance with the 'official drawings" I have copies of official drawings and diagrams of the railcars, the CIE diagram appears closer to what was actually built than the detailed dimensioned drawings! The title section of the drawing is illegible but possibly based on a Park Royal origonal. Section from large scale drawing, bogies similar design (longer wheelbase) to GWR railcars. Windscreen profile appears similar to GWR cars. Section from 1955 diagram of "Diesel Railcar Set with Buffet Car attached, appears closer in general outline to what was actually built than the large scale official drawings (if you ignore the buffers! I guess the biggest challenge facing a potential manufacturer is obtaining adequate information to construct a reasonably accurate model. The railcars were de-motored over 50 years, does the remaining Push-Pull Driving Trailer 6107 still exist? I built a pair of AEC railcars from a set of Worsley Works parts about 15 years ago and forming the curved end profile was not a significant problem, I formed the roof from balsa wood though these days would form the roof and a jig for forming the ends using 3D modelling and print technology. 5 1
Mol_PMB Posted February 5 Posted February 5 6111 is the survivor at Downpatrick. I wonder how many people have been to measure it up? CIÉ AEC 6111 - Downpatrick and County Down Railway The drawing of a GNR AEC railcar (reproduced at a small scale in 'Diesel Dawn' (Flanagan) and no doubt surviving in original form somewhere) is another source of information and many of the details on this drawing are closer to what was built (windows, bogies etc). In my personal experience of building a model of a Swiss railcar with chamfered ends, I looked at the drawing and thought 'the angle can't possibly be that big' so reduced it a bit. And then after it was all built, the cab front looked too flat! I think I'm not the only one to fall into this trap - I've seen someone describe several of the Silver Fox models (locos as well as railcars) being 'hit in the face with a shovel' (or similar) to describe their overly flat fronts. On the AEC's, the windscreens were flat pieces of glass set into a compound-curved front panel, so they did have a significant angle between them. Some of the cab interior views (produced for driver training documentation) show this angle from the inside. I wouldn't rush to say that the angle on the AEC drawings is wrong - maybe slightly exaggerated as I think they were close to flush at their outer edges. In this respect the GNR drawing looks closer to reality. Unfortunately Flickr is down this morning so I can't illustrate the point. I ought to get on with work anyway! 1
warb Posted February 5 Posted February 5 A couple of photos that my be interesting of the front of 6111 Warb 3 4
Mol_PMB Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Very helpful - thanks! The side-on shots really do show the depth of the curvature on the cab front which I think is consistent with the drawings. In the IRRS Flickr Archive, there are a few useful ones showing the cab front shape from other angles, including how the windscreen panes are set into the curve; some of these are GNR AEC railcars but they seem to have been very similar to the CIE ones: KAM_GNR_AEC_Unknown_c1960s | [Photographer: Kevin A Murray] … | Flickr KAM_GNR_AEC_602_Banbridge_1956 | [Photographer: Kevin A Murr… | Flickr SoB_CIE_AEC_Glanmire_Rd_c1960s | [Photographer: Seán O’Brien… | Flickr PoB_CIE_AEC_PP_Inchicore_c1970s | [Photographer: Paddy O’Bri… | Flickr TJD_CIE_AEC_PP_6106_Connolly_c1987 | [Photographer: Tom J Do… | Flickr One thing that's wrong in many of the drawings is the side fairings to the bufferbeams which are shown as tapered in plan view - but in reality they were square. This photo from Jonathan Allen shows that quite clearly too (though the first KAM link above is even clearer): 1 1
Horsetan Posted February 5 Posted February 5 3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: ..... On the AEC's, the windscreens were flat pieces of glass set into a compound-curved front panel, so they did have a significant angle between them. Some of the cab interior views (produced for driver training documentation) show this angle from the inside. I wouldn't rush to say that the angle on the AEC drawings is wrong - maybe slightly exaggerated as I think they were close to flush at their outer edges. In this respect the GNR drawing looks closer to reality.... Are there any British RTR DMUs which have similar curvature at the front? If so, it might be possible to cannibalise sections for a model. 1
Galteemore Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Off topic but love the clever headboard on that KAM pic! That pic at YR is just what I remember - stuff like that lay mouldering on the sidings for years there. 1
Mol_PMB Posted February 5 Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, Horsetan said: Are there any British RTR DMUs which have similar curvature at the front? If so, it might be possible to cannibalise sections for a model. Good thought. But I don't think there's anything the same: DMU Types
Horsetan Posted February 5 Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: .... This photo from Jonathan Allen shows that quite clearly too (though the first KAM link above is even clearer): The photo is also a very rare and useful show of the York Road "pointer light" subsidiary signals in operation. With the main 2-aspect head showing danger, the miniature lights (arranged as 3+2) display the route for shunting - in this case, the red light is extinguished, and the right-most route is cleared to green-under-yellow. Just visible to the right is the other main head, with its subsidiary pointer underneath showing red - the normal indication. The main heads appear to be the same type that was frequently used on surface sections of the London Underground, quite likely a Westinghouse product. Westinghouse colour light signals were also in service at Coleraine for decades, and were again common to the London Underground and the Southern Region of BR. 27 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Good thought. But I don't think there's anything the same: DMU Types Cravens 105 and 129 are superficially similar in the windscreen section. 1
Mol_PMB Posted February 5 Posted February 5 11 minutes ago, Horsetan said: Cravens 105 and 129 are superficially similar in the windscreen section. In some ways they are similar (2 large windows) and I agree there's nothing better. But the Cravens cab front is much flatter, there's very little curvature in the horizontal plane and although the upper part is slightly angled back, there's no curvature in the vertical plane on the lower part. The front corner radii are much smaller than the AEC, and the bodyside profile is quite different too. The front's not 100% flat but this interior view shows how small the angle between the windscreens is: Inside a Class 105 DMU The side-on view above shows just how deep the curvature of an AEC front is. 2
GM073 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, warb said: A couple of photos that my be interesting of the front of 6111 Warb Brill. Thanks for posting. Was 6111 the Greystones shuttle?? was also wondering about the vertical black ‘skirt’ or fairing under the buffer beam. It wasn’t fitted to the originals. Anyone know why it was fitted. (Looks a whole lot better with than without!) In model terms it’s a really very major feature of the dvt ends of the pushpulls. Edited February 5 by GM073 1
Mol_PMB Posted February 5 Posted February 5 2 hours ago, GM073 said: Brill. Thanks for posting. Was 6111 the Greystones shuttle?? was also wondering about the vertical black ‘skirt’ or fairing under the buffer beam. It wasn’t fitted to the originals. Anyone know why it was fitted. (Looks a whole lot better with than without!) In model terms it’s a really very major feature of the dvt ends of the pushpulls. I think both 6107 and 6111 were retained for the Greystones shuttles after the rest were withdrawn. That gave a spare driving car so there was maintenance cover. Some of them got the skirt while they were still DMUs. I imagine there was an accident where one hit a herd of cows (or similar) and it caused a derailment and/or trashed the underframe equipment etc. Then someone decided that an obstacle deflector was a good idea. That lesson was learnt again in Scotland some years later, at Polmont. 1
Wexford70 Posted February 6 Posted February 6 21 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Is 2608 above shown at Wexford South? 2 1
jhb171achill Posted February 8 Posted February 8 On 6/2/2026 at 10:08 AM, Wexford70 said: Is 2608 above shown at Wexford South? No skirt on that one…. I never remember seeing one on a powered one, as in railcar, but I have seen pics of it, I think. I rarely travelled in them as railcars, but I do remember one time when an AEC set took me from Amiens St to Portadown, whereupon I transferred to another in UTA livery to take me to Lisburn! This was not a normal working and it wasn’t because of a DD failure, or bombs - it was about 1966/7. I’d live to know what was going on that day. The CIE one did EVERY stop, including Castlebellingham and Dunleer. As an aside, a few years earlier than that I saw a CIE AEC set heading south out of Belfast…. again, a one-off; Senior was with me and said he’d never seen a CIE set north of Dundalk….
Mol_PMB Posted February 8 Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: No skirt on that one…. I never remember seeing one on a powered one, as in railcar, but I have seen pics of it, I think. I rarely travelled in them as railcars, but I do remember one time when an AEC set took me from Amiens St to Portadown, whereupon I transferred to another in UTA livery to take me to Lisburn! This was not a normal working and it wasn’t because of a DD failure, or bombs - it was about 1966/7. I’d live to know what was going on that day. The CIE one did EVERY stop, including Castlebellingham and Dunleer. As an aside, a few years earlier than that I saw a CIE AEC set heading south out of Belfast…. again, a one-off; Senior was with me and said he’d never seen a CIE set north of Dundalk…. Photos indicate that the front skirts / obstacle deflectors were fitted from about 1971, and that most of the AEC's remaining in traffic after that got skirts. Some of them retained the skirts after conversion to push-pull intermediates or connector cars, even though they were formed in the middle of a train. Here's a link to an excellent photo by Jonathan Allen on Flickr dated 1971, showing a beskirted AEC: 5
jhb171achill Posted February 12 Posted February 12 On 31/1/2026 at 1:38 PM, Mol_PMB said: The W&T driving trailer was 1407. IRM are actually offering 1407 in their range, but in much later 1980s condition by which time it had lost its cab. The intermediate on the W+T was 1408. One of the difficulties in answering this question is that we need a bit more info from IRM to know what each of the green models look like. We always have to be very careful with shades of green in older photos, but this railcar looks like a dark green. Park Royal hiding behind the wall on the right. There is a nice colour photo in 'Irish Railways in the 1950s and 1960s' (McCormack) page 125 showing a W+T train in 1957 formed of all 5 'modern' vehicles - 3 AEC railcars and 2 Park Royals. Led by 2659 which also appears to be dark green, though the second AEC looks lighter. The Park Royals have the later outward-opening doors. So the model of 1402 is probably the best bet. Th AEC railcars commenced ther lives befre the light green livery was "invented"; thus, all were dark green initially. But they had the later style of a single thin pale green "waistline" rather than the two broader bands above and below the windows. The post-1955 green continued the same thin lioning style, again in eau-de-nil. A Fry photio of all 5 vehicles tends to suggest they were all dark green until the line closed, and considering none went to Inchicore while they were there, that would be logical. As can be seen in the pic above, dark green rules the roost there. (I'd love to have travelled on that line!)
Mol_PMB Posted February 14 Posted February 14 I note that some of the Park Royals are now showing as sold out on the Accurascale website. I was hoping for the long-promised update before placing another order, but FOMO has got the better of me.
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