Wexford70 Posted January 30 Posted January 30 Waterford Suir Valley Railway being gifted a stem engine by the National Trust. 040 Black Hawthorn works number 501 of 1879. 8 1 Quote
Mike 84C Posted January 30 Posted January 30 That is very good news, rather a nice little engine. I'm sure it will be in good hands. Another excuse to visit the Emerald Isle. 6 Quote
Metrovik Posted January 30 Posted January 30 Seems to be rather the edgy talking point amongst British enthusiasts on Facebook who view Waterford as a Tourist railway rather than a heritage one, The main complaint that seems to have been made is that the engine is in as withdrawn condition and should stay in a museum, ideally in Britain. Should probably tread carefully around this one.... I'm all for having steam in Waterford but at the same time I'm trying to decide if this is the right route...... Quote
Georgeconna Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Hope the engine gets looked after and not a one year wonder. Could tempt a lot of extra helpers now to get hands on. 1 Quote
Mike 84C Posted January 31 Posted January 31 I dont do FB but my wife does so where can she find the comments please. To me the tourist versus heritage line is rubbish. No tourists then there is no point for a heritage line, in fact no case for any line. I worked for the Festiniog as an employee and volunteer for best part of 35 years and I never saw a single load of commercial slate come down the line to be put in the hold of a ship; ever. Only tourists going up and down spending their money. We used to watch the trains going around Boston Lodge curve and estimate wether the number of passengers had paid the fuel bill. Maybe get no5 over from Blennervile and start restoration? I'm sure Patrick Keefe would love to restore it. 5 3 Quote
Broithe Posted January 31 Posted January 31 40 minutes ago, Mike 84C said: I dont do FB but my wife does so where can she find the comments please. https://www.facebook.com/groups/narrowgauge/posts/24987831507468875/ 1 Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 42 minutes ago, Mike 84C said: Maybe get no5 over from Blennervile and start restoration? I'm sure Patrick Keefe would love to restore it. I think size of 5T would be an issue for the WSVR line. 1 Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Georgeconna said: Hope the engine gets looked after and not a one year wonder. Could tempt a lot of extra helpers now to get hands on. WSVR has been around for 20 years so odds look good it should have a future, in part thanks to the footfall from the greenway. No press release from the charity yet so no info on the business plan released either. 2 Quote
DoctorPan Posted January 31 Posted January 31 22 minutes ago, Wexford70 said: I think size of 5T would be an issue for the WSVR line. 5T is far far too big for the likes of Suir Valley, it's running costs would be far too much for any setup in Ireland. 1 Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 (edited) 6 hours ago, DoctorPan said: 5T is far far too big for the likes of Suir Valley, it's running costs would be far too much for any setup in Ireland. Do think it should be preserved somewhere even cosmetically restored. The National Museum should have some remit to at least store locos like 5T and even those in private ownership if owners wish to loan them to the museum. It is strange that the Heritage Act 1995 does not mention any type of vehicles, not just railway stock, mainly just buildings. Edited January 31 by Wexford70 typo 2 Quote
Westcorkrailway Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Give it a GSWR saloon smokebox doors and an ivatt boxtop cab, and repaint it grey! anyways 5t I’m reliably told from an early member of the WSVR that the curve to get the line under the road and alongside the greenway is too tight for the likes of 5t and possibly sleive callan too 1 Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said: anyways 5t I’m reliably told from an early member of the WSVR that the curve to get the line under the road and alongside the greenway is too tight for the likes of 5t and possibly sleive callan too 1 Quote
Westcorkrailway Posted January 31 Posted January 31 11 minutes ago, Wexford70 said: Keep in mind the curve may now be even tighter or at least modified to accommodate the greenway Quote
DoctorPan Posted January 31 Posted January 31 9 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said: Keep in mind the curve may now be even tighter or at least modified to accommodate the greenway Yeah the curve is much much tigher to fit the greenway.It's been slewed further in as where it was on that photo is now the greenway path! Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 43 minutes ago, DoctorPan said: Yeah the curve is much much tigher to fit the greenway.It's been slewed further in as where it was on that photo is now the greenway path! Unsure how much tighter as I know the bank was removed on the right. But definitely an 0-4-0 would be optimal. Quote
Georgeconna Posted January 31 Posted January 31 5 hours ago, Broithe said: https://www.facebook.com/groups/narrowgauge/posts/24987831507468875/ Mmm Wonder will they enclose the Cab. Would they of not been better of building a new one rather than a museum piece. I hope this does not go wrong and end up in the shed for years. 5 hours ago, Wexford70 said: WSVR has been around for 20 years so odds look good it should have a future, in part thanks to the footfall from the greenway. No press release from the charity yet so no info on the business plan released either. I quite a boring run tbh. Suits a casual vsitor. It needs to go into Waterford to make it anyway good. Been on it twice. was enough. Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 48 minutes ago, Georgeconna said: I quite a boring run tbh. Suits a casual vsitor. It needs to go into Waterford to make it anyway good. Been on it twice. was enough. Council unable to facilitate the expansion into Waterford: Not extending the Suir Valley Railway is a "mistake" for Waterford | WLRFM.com Waterford News & Star — Bilberry rail extension off the tracks for now | Waterford News & Star (waterford-news.ie) 1 Quote
226 Abhann na Suire Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) As a Deise man myself, I’m probably a bit biased on the matter but I do see this as an unbelievable opportunity and project. I think that any steam engine running in steam on a railway of any sort (and I really do think that the W&SVR have the drive and commitment to make this happen) is far better than it sitting in a museum, which in turn is 10 times better than it rotting in a tumbledown shed. It’s all well and good those people on Facebook giving out about it going to Ireland but the whole point of Railway preservation is to (clues in the name…!) preserve railway items so surely where it happens shouldn’t matter too much… And besides they have enough steamers over there, leave some for us!! And I very much understand those of you above who are saying that the W&SVR is a tourist railway and not a heritage one, and I’d be inclined to agree with you but at the same time, really so is nearly every railway preservation project. There’s a reason Santa Expresses and Halloween and Easter Excursions as well as Thomas the Tank Engine events are put on and it’s to bring in people (and money) that wouldn’t normally be coming to the railway, money without which, the railways would be in danger. What’s the difference between Downpatrick and Waterford? The only big one I can see is the gauge… So maybe we all (myself included because I did one harbour doubts about this project) have a bit of general positivity about this and maybe rather than pondering if they’ll even follow through with the project, we could lend a hand to the first steam preservation project the south east of the country has seen, and the first one Ireland has seen in a long while - I know I’ll have to try and get my hands on helping out somehow!! Oisín Edited January 31 by 226 Abhann na Suire 3 Quote
Georgeconna Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Wexford70 said: Council unable to facilitate the expansion into Waterford: Not extending the Suir Valley Railway is a "mistake" for Waterford | WLRFM.com Waterford News & Star — Bilberry rail extension off the tracks for now | Waterford News & Star (waterford-news.ie) Shame that,, Would be a great prospect to get people in Waterford on it rather than going all the way out to Kilmeadon. I thought the tracks were nearly all the way into the old south terminus looking at the OSI map they are? Steam is exciting for sure but I hope that don't change the loco too much from what it is now. Edited January 31 by Georgeconna 1 Quote
Wexford70 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Georgeconna said: Shame that,, Would be a great prospect to get people in Waterford on it rather than going all the way out to Kilmeadon. I thought the tracks were all the way into the old south terminus. No tracks left when the charity took a lease on the track bed some 20 years ago. They relayed 10km of bullhead track and rebuilt the platforms in Kilmeaden. The council permitted building of apartments / houses on the track bed some time later at Bilberry, despite an appeal, and blocked up the tunnel which means any extension into the city would now need to be via tram track in the road. The request to purchase the extra 6 feel of pathway when the greenway compulsory purchase of land was being undertaken a few years back, was rejected out of hand. Waterford News & Star — Bilberry rail extension off the tracks for now | Waterford News & Star (waterford-news.ie) Edited January 31 by Wexford70 typo 1 Quote
airfixfan Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Loco being moved to a restoration site in the North of England by Easter 1 Quote
Wexford70 Posted February 1 Author Posted February 1 This Welsh vintage train may see new lease of life in Waterford | Independent.ie Article in the Indo. 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 1 Posted February 1 On 31/1/2024 at 10:08 AM, Wexford70 said: I think size of 5T would be an issue for the WSVR line. Yes, it wouldn’t go under the new bridge. Quote
Mayner Posted February 2 Posted February 2 Can't help thinking that a new build possibly 0-4-2T would be a better option than attempting to restore a 157 year old 0-4-0ST Apart from the historic significance of Kettering Furnaces No 3 a Black Hawthorne in close to its original condition, an 0-4-2T would be more suitable than an outside cylinder 0-4-0 for working passenger trains on a line line the Suir Valley. Narrow gauge short wheelbase 0-4-0ST have a reputation of being unstable for 'main line" work in Wales the Tallylyn and Corris rebuilt their 0-4-0St as O-4-2ST and the Ballymena Cushendall and Red Bay used Black Hawthorn 0-4-2ST for their Iron Ore trains and were later used for Tourist Traffic. Personally I think static display in a museum would be more appropriate given the age and historic significance of the loco either in the North East or one of the ironstone railway groups in the East Midlands with a established record in restoring steam locos. 4 1 1 Quote
Galteemore Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) In the UK, lines of this nature often don’t have their own steam locos, as they simply do not have the engineering facilities and support to maintain them long term. What they will occasionally have are visiting locos for a few weekends a year - prob not an option in this case. Although I don’t think Tyrone or Shane see much use in the causeway line so who knows what’s possible? We used Hayling Island Railway a lot in years gone by. Steam visited occasionally but the grunt work was done by a very well done steam outline loco….pic from EHLR site. Edited February 2 by Galteemore 2 Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted February 2 Posted February 2 22 hours ago, Wexford70 said: This Welsh vintage train may see new lease of life in Waterford | Independent.ie Article in the Indo. Not Welsh. Not a "train". Top journalism. Quote
Wexford70 Posted February 2 Author Posted February 2 (edited) 9 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said: Not Welsh. Not a "train". Top journalism. Original article called it a Welsh tourist train. Slight improvement in the new version. And the quotes from a Mr Clarke are taken off Facebook. No mention of that source!!! Top journalism indeed. Edited February 2 by Wexford70 Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) On 31/1/2024 at 10:41 AM, Westcorkrailway said: Give it a GSWR saloon smokebox doors and an ivatt boxtop cab, and repaint it grey! anyways 5t I’m reliably told from an early member of the WSVR that the curve to get the line under the road and alongside the greenway is too tight for the likes of 5t and possibly sleive callan too Probably more suited to something like the C&L's "Dromad" or a 4-4-0T a la the original C&L. Both 5T and 5C are huge beasts. At the risk of being called a "wibbler", thrown around as a term of abuse these days, I'd be in agreement with Mayner as to whether this is a suitable choice and wise use of resources, a ground up restoration vs a new build. Will the addition of steam attract enough bums on seats to make it worthwhile? Plus what experience and facilities do the W&SV have to look after it? A steam loco is for "life", a long term commitment, not just for Xmas. Edited February 2 by minister_for_hardship 1 1 Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) On 31/1/2024 at 10:31 AM, DoctorPan said: 5T is far far too big for the likes of Suir Valley, it's running costs would be far too much for any setup in Ireland. Plus you will be unlikely to prise it from the grasp of Kerry County Council, doesn't want to run it, doesn't want anyone else to run it either! Edited February 2 by minister_for_hardship Quote
hurricanemk1c Posted February 2 Posted February 2 23 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said: Not Welsh. Not a "train". Top journalism. "Train” means a vehicle with flanged wheels designed to operate on a railway for whatever purpose, and includes carriages and rolling stock. Railway Safety Act 2005 1 Quote
Niles Posted February 2 Posted February 2 (edited) 2 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said: Plus what experience and facilities do the W&SV have to look after it? A steam loco is for "life", a long term commitment, not just for Xmas. Everyone has to start somewhere. W&SVR have put a lot of effort into getting where they are today (20 years+ operating Ireland's longest heritage line 7 days a week over the summer), I don't doubt their ability to develop steam loco maintenance procedures too. Edited February 2 by Niles 2 1 Quote
Mike Beckett Posted February 2 Posted February 2 You’d think railway fans/enthusiasts/people would welcome a railway getting its first kettle, but not in Ireland, there’s always a miserable side who assume they know better. 2 1 1 Quote
Killian Keane Posted February 2 Posted February 2 10 hours ago, Mayner said: ...157 year old.... 139, 1885 Quote
Wexford70 Posted February 2 Author Posted February 2 7 hours ago, Niles said: Everyone has to start somewhere. W&SVR have put a lot of effort into getting where they are today (20 years+ operating Ireland's longest heritage line 7 days a week over the summer), I don't doubt their ability to develop steam loco maintenance procedures too. Hopefully people who have those skills will share with the railway and help them to pass these skills on to the next generation. I think the management are well aware of the challenges but also see the opportunities if handled correctly. A lot of aligned skills exist among the steam tractor engine community also I believe. 2 Quote
Mayner Posted February 2 Posted February 2 4 hours ago, Killian Keane said: 139, 1885 At 139 years Kettering Furnaces No 3 is historic by any standards the sole survivor of the Black Hawthorne 0-4-0ST supplied to the site. No 3 is likely to require substantial work to restore to working order (mechanical re-build and likely a new boiler & firebox) Industrial locos tended to be worked hard in harsh conditions with minimal maintenance compared to locos used on main line and public light railways. The National Trust appears to have approved the donation of the loco to the WSVR who appear to be aware of the challenges and are entrusting the restoration to a an engineering works in the UK that has experience in restoring historic locos. https://www.wsvrailway.ie/news/bus-route-to-kilmeadan-station/ 1 Quote
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