Flogging is Too Good for Them 😡

[Patrick Davey]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce991j48q72o

[Horsetan]

I've long been an advocate of punishment that fits the crime. Arsonists should therefore be burned at the stake.

[DJ Dangerous]

11 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

I've long been an advocate of punishment that fits the crime. Arsonists should therefore be burned at the stake.

I disagree.

Only burned at the stake?

They dismembered the layout prior to the arson, so an eye for an eye...

[Tullygrainey]

Such a pointless act. Can only begin to imagine how the layout builders are feeling. 

[jhb171achill]

Awful.

Considering that I advocate snipers and electric fences for graffiti vandalism, it’s best not to print how I would deal with people like this.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

Awful.

Considering that I advocate snipers and electric fences for graffiti vandalism, it’s best not to print how I would deal with people like this.

I agree but if anyone needs somewhere to hide the bodies then I have hundreds of acres of woodland around me

[Horsetan]

17 minutes ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

I agree but if anyone needs somewhere to hide the bodies then I have hundreds of acres of woodland around me

The 'RA boys were always good at hiding bodies.

[skinner75]

Lump hammer to the temple, then feed them to pigs

[Broithe]

We really should be a bit humane about this.

I would give them a choice*.

A, Being locked in a room with @jhb171achill explaining the entirety of Irish railway liveries since the beginning of time, until they can recite it word-perfect.

Or.

B, The lump hammer.

 

* I would take the lump hammer.

[jhb171achill]

28 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

Lump hammer to the temple, then feed them to pigs

Why, what did the oul pigs do to deserve that?

[Patrick Davey]

23 minutes ago, Broithe said:

We really should be a bit humane about this.

I would give them a choice*.

A, Being locked in a room with @jhb171achill explaining the entirety of Irish railway liveries since the beginning of time, until they can recite it word-perfect.

Or.

B, The lump hammer.

 

* I would take the lump hammer.

You said ‘humane’????

[Galteemore]

Make them work on the IRM ‘delivery updates for new model releases’ enquiry team……

Edited May 22 by Galteemore

[airfixfan]

Offer them a chance to read the complete works of James Joyce instead?

[jhb171achill]

11 minutes ago, airfixfan said:

Offer them a chance to read the complete works of James Joyce instead?

........and make them memorise it.

Snipers can come after that.

[Broithe]

We would need to make sure that the snipers had adequate hearing protection and were located a good distance from anybody reciting James Joyce at the offenders, or we may find that they would change sides.

[LNERW1]

As someone who definitely thinks he's capable of bare knuckle fighting these [REDACTED]...

Reminds me of the Stamford Deeping show being trashed by teenagers who, I think, used locos as basketballs. As a teenager, I have told nobody in my year about my interests. Nobody. People question the motives of vandals like this but I believe it's the distorted view of testosterone-fuelled teenagers and young adults determined to destroy "geeky" or "nerdy" hobby displays because playing with trains means you're gay and you touch kids and your mum does unspeakable things online, etc etc. I could easily see someone like Andrew Tate ranting about how model trains are letting feminists win or some mysoginistic bullshit. It's testosterone, macho-ness and hate for anyone who is different or even happy.

[Mayner]

While I have sympathy towards the volunteers who worked on the layout, I am disappointed but not surprised by the race to the bottom in dreaming up the most cruel and unusual punishment for the perpetrators.  After all it was wise Iain Rice that said model railways was a pointless hobby that served no purpose. Vandalism, looting, burning-destroying coaches on preserved railways is an age old problem

I have largely become a lone wolf in recent years (apart from this newsgroup) as a result of extremely intolerant opinions expressed by former modelling friends (everything from racism-through antigun control-to un-married mothers). I chose my friends and ignore the crap on social media.

Going back to LNERW1 point about not coming out about model railways. Model railways have traditionally been looked down on seen as nerdy (at least in Ireland) often by parents. I got my first proper Triang-Hornby train set at 13 almost as an act of teenage rebellion my parents and aunts and uncles who hoped that 'I would "grow out" of model trains and take up more manly interests and never really adjusted to my continued interest as an adult, at 67 my inlaws/wifes friends laugh/smile when my interest in trains is mentioned- but have long ceased caring.

Funnily enough no problems mentioning my interest in model trains, in early teens most class mates were mainly interested in soccer although we went to a school with a Gaelic tradition. Couple of classmates that were interested in trains moved homes/changed schools when we changed to secondary school, possibly leaving me the one person interested in trains in our class. Group that accepted me/hung out with sometimes spoke about my interest in trains, being more nerdy/academic I was accepted allowed to hang out with a group of 'cool rich kids" and invited to their parties as we progressed through secondary school. Probably closest to a dark haried Garreth in Waynes World who also played with trains

[minister_for_hardship]

"The first man is described as being in his late 20s to early 40s, clean shaven, with a large build and between 5ft 8in and 6ft tall."

These aren't teens or kids messing around, fully grown adult men who you would think would have more sense.

[Galteemore]

As a member of the Gauge O Guild, I have read some of the on-the-ground comments from the group concerned. The miscreants seem to have been frustrated burglars in search of cash. They made off with about £30 and two old vacuum cleaners…..

Edited May 24 by Galteemore

[Horsetan]

1 hour ago, minister_for_hardship said:

"The first man is described as being in his late 20s to early 40s, clean shaven, with a large build and between 5ft 8in and 6ft tall."

These aren't teens or kids messing around, fully grown adult men who you would think would have more sense.

I'd suggest that New Zealand doesn't yet have the feral culture that has spread itself over Britain and Ireland during the last few decades.

[Mayner]

8 hours ago, Horsetan said:

I'd suggest that New Zealand doesn't yet have the feral culture that has spread itself over Britain and Ireland during the last few decades.

Shouldn't really have gone there Ivan.  Feral is considered in Australasia to be a counter-culture a development/amalgam of the hippy and punk movements something I would subscribe to rather than what I see as 'a Moral Panic with youth crime and immigration stirred up by the media and populist politicians in many parts of the World including New Zealand, Australia, the States, Britain and Europe.

New Zealand crime and culture.

New Zealand is no south sea paradise we have the second worst adolescent suicide rate in the OECD, a high imprisonment rate compared to OECD average, high proportion of prison inmates (40-50%) untreated mental illness. Lot of moral panic over youth and gang crime in recent years  although crime rates been decreasing over the past 30 years.

Youth and gang crime visible, 16 year old murdered by a 13 year old at a city centre bus station this week, highly visible US/Australian style street/biker gangs involved in violent and organised crime. Supposed to be more gang members that cops these days.

Moral panic.

I see a feral culture more in terms of politicians and the media exploiting peoples fears and prejudice to get elected/take power rather than tackle the root cause of societies problems, as happened in Nazi Germany and appears to be happening in many Western countries. Recently a centre right coalition Government was elected in New Zealand in which the minority partners obtained the balance of power by exploiting moral panic among older white voters about crime, immigration and the perception of preferential treatment for Maori (indigenous New Zealanders) and their culture. Ironically several of the political leaders stirring up anti Maori sentiment were Maori but it bought white working class votes. Not a lot different from a politician with a Basque name a MEP with a German wife stirring up UK Nationalist sentiment which ultimately lead to Brexit

Much of the prejudice about immigrants was that wealthy immigrants particularly from Asia were pricing New Zealanders out of the housing market, rather than supply not keeping up with demand and rampant speculation driving house prices up.

Prejudice

I gradually overcome my own innate and learned prejudices by meeting and getting to know people of different races, cultures and social cultures during my working life leaning that keeping religion and politics out of it there was little difference between us.

I also learned about 20 years ago that there was no point in arguing with a person with entrenched views in this case the Alf Garnet or Archie Bunker of our family an uncle who was ranting on that all Nigerians were involved in scams and or organised crime, but had never actually met a Nigerian. My uncle got quite wound up when I told him that I knew several Nigerians (from working in UK and Ireland) who were honest upstanding people.

Going by the principal that your stuck with your relatives but choose your friends. I stopped associating with several so called model railway friends that worked themselves into a larther over single mothers on benefit and immigrants 'making a mess" (dumping) in New Zealand. 

Apart from not being able to think of a better topic of conversation, I quickly realised I had little in common with either group.  One of the ironical things was watching a single male in their 20s encouraging a group of older-elderly middle class women in their moral outrage at single mothers.

I got quite annoyed when a so called friend spouted prejudice about immigrants in my home in front of my young daughter, but he frankly could not accept when challenged that a New Zealander (a Kiwi) would or could dump rubbish by the roadside.

So in the end it all boils down to what a person perceives as a "feral culture',  I would perceive as some of the comments on this thread as being signs of feral culture, where apparently two frustrated burglars vandalised and set fire to a carriage at Bo'ness rather than teenagers getting their kicks

Some of our neighbours on the street in Crumlin where I grew up 40-50 years ago were burglars and petty criminals and vandalism/malicious damage to public amenities was quite rampant, so nothings really changed apart from the War on Drugs having contributing to a drug epidemic and turf wars among criminal gangs in most countries

Edited May 24 by Mayner

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

I hope they can salvage something from the wreck.

[LNERW1]

11 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

"The first man is described as being in his late 20s to early 40s, clean shaven, with a large build and between 5ft 8in and 6ft tall."

These aren't teens or kids messing around, fully grown adult men who you would think would have more sense.

Maybe, but haircuts are ridiculous so maybe it was just a 20-year-old testosterone junkie trying to look like his dad for trauma reasons... I don't know, but arson and violent behaviour always seems to be caused by trauma. Fix these angry, confused young men instead of discussing what IRA members would be best at killing them. They did this, undoubtedly, because we live in a world that coaxes them to do exactly this. To act out against "happy nerds" and destroy "stupid train sets" because they weren't made by teenagers with no hair and 25g of assorted narcotics on them. I'm growing up in this world, albeit a pampered part of it, and although I do want to punch them, I'd give them a hug and emotionally support them afterwards. Again, the world caused this, and we can only thank whatever, if any, greater being we believe in that these people are not a majority (Don't give me shit about this; they're just the most visible).

[Patrick Davey]

Both aged 32:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00rk1znkvo

[Ironroad]

It is very difficult to comprehend what motivated this act of wanton destruction. However without pretending I can read their minds it seems to me that the perpetrators (their age makes no difference) are worlds apart from the owners of the destroyed property. It is a act of resentment against a segment of society they see as privileged  and engaged in a seemingly worthless pursuit, by people who see themselves as deprived by society. This is not something new. I don't excuse the vandalism, but we are in a time where there seems to be less tolerance of the underprivileged and that is exacerbating the problem. Politicians everywhere seem to be losing sight of the fact that addressing the root causes and spending money on education, sports etc, and ensuring there is inclusiveness and opportunity for all makes a lot more sense than being reactive and building prisons.  I do accept that we will always have a subculture that is apart but it is the current scale of it that is alarming.

[irishrailways52]

punishments. first of all give them some flavour of what a days work is like. since they like work they can knock down a chimney brick by brick like Fred Dibnah used to do.

once that has been completed find an empty room in IRM towers and leave them in there until the all Ireland strategic rail review has been carried out in full with peat sods as there only source of food and also make them listen to the best of the tulla ceili band for the whole time. i know the tulla ceili band sounds good to most of us but these young ba*ter*s hate it. once that has been completed they must tamp the ballast on evry railway in Europe by hand. after that burn evrything that ever had any value to them. once that has been completed they must clean every railway platform in Ireland with a toothbrush. during this punishment there only sorce of food will be chewing gum they find on the platform or under seats. after that other punishments such as burning them at the stake and feeding them to pigs can be carried out.

of corse the police will probably give them a small fine, a lollypop with "im rehabilitated" on the packet and a wee pat on the head. 

 

god help the poor people who worked on that layout. my heart goes out to them

[Colin R]

Sadly Insurance will not begin to cover the amount of time that has gone into the building of the railway in the first place. But does any one know just what rolling stock has been lost damaged or stolen?

I just wonder if there is anything we could do to help from a group point of view?

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, irishrailways52 said:

punishments. first of all give them some flavour of what a days work is like. since they like work they can knock down a chimney brick by brick like Fred Dibnah used to do.

once that has been completed find an empty room in IRM towers and leave them in there until the all Ireland strategic rail review has been carried out in full with peat sods as there only source of food and also make them listen to the best of the tulla ceili band for the whole time. i know the tulla ceili band sounds good to most of us but these young ba*ter*s hate it. once that has been completed they must tamp the ballast on evry railway in Europe by hand. after that burn evrything that ever had any value to them. once that has been completed they must clean every railway platform in Ireland with a toothbrush. during this punishment there only sorce of food will be chewing gum they find on the platform or under seats. after that other punishments such as burning them at the stake and feeding them to pigs can be carried out.

of corse the police will probably give them a small fine, a lollypop with "im rehabilitated" on the packet and a wee pat on the head. 

 

god help the poor people who worked on that layout. my heart goes out to them

As a separate issue, I just could never fathom how that man had such an utterly fearless attitude to very great heights!!! And with nothing more than ladders and bits of rope!

[Broithe]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

As a separate issue, I just could never fathom how that man had such an utterly fearless attitude to very great heights!!! And with nothing more than ladders and bits of rope!

I'm not a fan of heights.

My bike ride home from work on the Big Island had about a mile along a straight road, with double yellow lines along it. I would try, and usually succeed, to ride the full length with my tyres within the outer limits of the lines, a path a foot wide. I would generally be able to do it, even on a fairly windy day and with traffic whizzing past.

If I attempted that 100' up in the air, I wouldn't get a yard before I was plummeting earthwards.

There is a risk/consequence balance, and we all have different biases.

Remember how fast everything seemed to happen when you started driving - now, people hardly bother, once they are used to it...

You can, especially if you have an element of personal control of the circumstances, acclimatise yourself to most situations, with adequate time to do so.

 

But, it would probably be several lifetimes before I could do this.

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, Broithe said:

I'm not a fan of heights.

My bike ride home from work on the Big Island had about a mile along a straight road, with double yellow lines along it. I would try, and usually succeed, to ride the full length with my tyres within the outer limits of the lines, a path a foot wide. I would generally be able to do it, even on a fairly windy day and with traffic whizzing past.

If I attempted that 100' up in the air, I wouldn't get a yard before I was plummeting earthwards.

There is a risk/consequence balance, and we all have different biases.

Remember how fast everything seemed to happen when you started driving - now, people hardly bother, once they are used to it...

You can, especially if you have an element of personal control of the circumstances, acclimatise yourself to most situations, with adequate time to do so.

 

But, it would probably be several lifetimes before I could do this.

I've just been seasick, and caught the collywobbles, heeby-jeebys and screaming fits, just looking at that picture.........!!!

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

I would have loved to been up there with him, not now though

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, irishrailways52 said:

punishments. first of all give them some flavour of what a days work is like. since they like work they can knock down a chimney brick by brick like Fred Dibnah used to do.

once that has been completed find an empty room in IRM towers and leave them in there until the all Ireland strategic rail review has been carried out in full with peat sods as there only source of food and also make them listen to the best of the tulla ceili band for the whole time. i know the tulla ceili band sounds good to most of us but these young ba*ter*s hate it. once that has been completed they must tamp the ballast on evry railway in Europe by hand. after that burn evrything that ever had any value to them. once that has been completed they must clean every railway platform in Ireland with a toothbrush. during this punishment there only sorce of food will be chewing gum they find on the platform or under seats. after that other punishments such as burning them at the stake and feeding them to pigs can be carried out.

of corse the police will probably give them a small fine, a lollypop with "im rehabilitated" on the packet and a wee pat on the head. 

 

god help the poor people who worked on that layout. my heart goes out to them

Have the Scottish Courts the power to sentence the perpetrators to work (possibly track maintenance or rolling stock restoration) on the Bo-ness and Kinneil Railway?

Track maintenance on our local heritage line has been carried out for several years by non-violent offenders sentenced to 'Community Work" under the NZ Justice system. The Justice system pays an experienced Track Ganger to supervise the offenders.

The programme seems to have been a success for the railway particular as the founders/regular volunteers are getting older/becoming elderly and no longer have the physical stamina to carry out track maintenance work.

Several years ago one of our politicians was far sighted enough to realise that New Zealand's imprisonment rate was unsustianible , the literally the country could not afford to build or maintain the prisons required to house a growing prison inmate population and the money was better spent tackling the causes of crime and offender re-habilitation.

One of the outcomes was the sentencing of non-violent offenders to "Community Work" and Trade Training of more serious offenders to reduce recividism. Inmates in the regions largest local prison receive training in trades which are in high demand and even employment while in prison. https://www.corrections.govt.nz/about_us/getting_in_touch/our_locations/spring_hill_corrections_facility.  Being inside not really a barrier to employment in construction, forestry, agriculture or heavy engineering if your a good worker and have moved on from crime.

I am fully in agreement with Ironroad on tackling the causes of crime and my distaste at politicians who exploit peoples fear of crime to get votes while failing to address/acknowledge the root causes.

Edited May 25 by Mayner

[Broithe]

11 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I've just been seasick, and caught the collywobbles, heeby-jeebys and screaming fits, just looking at that picture.........!!!

Lie down on the (ground) floor and look at this with one eye.

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, Broithe said:

Lie down on the (ground) floor and look at this with one eye.

That's another seasick bag filled.............

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

40 minutes ago, Broithe said:

Lie down on the (ground) floor and look at this with one eye.

Is that his harness with the yellow straps? The hard hat was a great help if he fell