0 scale irish deisel locos

[Darren.d]

6 hours ago, Colonel said:

Either a C or a 121 would work for me, though it is important to remember what a rtr loco costs in 0 gauge. Mainline diesels from Heljan are all north of £500, though Dapol seem to do smaller types for around half that.

 With steam outline, the perennial problem of splashers and outside motion raises its head, especially if the correct gauge is to be accommodated. That said, 36.75mm is proportionally less obvious compared to 32mm that 21/16.5 in 00.

 Diesels therefore the obvious choice, where drop in replacement wheels ought to be simple enough, as in 00.

 However, anyone contemplating Irish 7mm scale needs to remember that there is precious little rolling stock (rtr or even kits), available. ALL my stuff is hand built and Galteemore will tell you the same and am sure folk in this parish need no reminding that a lot of work is needed to convert British outline models to Irish ones.

 So, caveat emptor, as the saying goes. There again, 7mm scale can be very enjoyable and indeed, very addictive - in many ways arguably easier to do Ireland than in 4mm scale. So, as before, I'd still say: come on in, the water is lovely!

If a rtr 141 121 or 071 was produced id be expecting no change from a thousand euro.iv seen brass steam locos in 7mm from hh models i think and they near 3000 sterling.

I'm working saturday.ill see if the powers that be may let me loose early.

[jhb171achill]

I think a 141 is an obvious "go-to" for a first RTR "0" gauge liesel. For steam, probably a J15. In both cases they cover the widest area possible, numerically large classes, the longest timescale and the greatest number of uses from shunting to goods to beet to branch lines to main line passenger.

[Galteemore]

It’s amazing how quickly space becomes constricted when a tender gets involved. I had an O gauge micro which worked quite happily with a tank engine and a railbus. A friend brought in a small 0-6-0 and operation froze ! The tender had absorbed that critical one wagon’s worth of leeway. Pics show layout under construction - it was shown as not quite finished….

[Northroader]

That Terrier was Dapols first venture into affordable 0 scale models, and must have proved commercially successful, as they’ve followed it up with a good range of very nice small models, all compact sizes of steam tank engines, apart from the 08 diesel. Looking forwards, possibly what’s missing is the fairly widespread LNER J72 0-6-0T, and if that appeared it wouldn’t need much tweaking to turn it into an Irish J26, which I would suggest is the best bet for a low price RTR job with the widest appeal?

[Darren.d]

At the end of the day if irm produced a loco would there be enough interest to sell a thousand units? 

[Galteemore]

55 minutes ago, Northroader said:

That Terrier was Dapols first venture into affordable 0 scale models, and must have proved commercially successful, as they’ve followed it up with a good range of very nice small models, all compact sizes of steam tank engines, apart from the 08 diesel. Looking forwards, possibly what’s missing is the fairly widespread LNER J72 0-6-0T, and if that appeared it wouldn’t need much tweaking to turn it into an Irish J26, which I would suggest is the best bet for a low price RTR job with the widest appeal?

Agreed Bob. Have built a J26 kit and just bought one for myself. You can justify one anywhere from Sligo to Skibbereen. 

[BosKonay]

1 hour ago, Darren.d said:

At the end of the day if irm produced a loco would there be enough interest to sell a thousand units? 

Thats the question I guess. From a numbers basis we could do something like the 121 or C class for maybe 399-450 Pounds / 450-500€

[Galteemore]

8 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Thats the question I guess. From a numbers basis we could do something like the 121 or C class for maybe 399-450 Pounds / 450-500€

That’s a very fair price. 

[derek]

1 hour ago, Darren.d said:

At the end of the day if irm produced a loco would there be enough interest to sell a thousand units? 

That's the question the man asked at the beginning of all this after all

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

That’s a very fair price. 

Indeed, broadly twice the price of the 4mm scale Hunslets (assuming the price is DCC ready rather than full-fat sounds) is good value for a much larger loco. It also compares well to the 88DS in O gauge.

C class would be a good choice in 7mm I think, they're pretty small and well suited to short branch line trains and shunting.

Personally I'd buy four, maybe five C class in 4mm scale, but probably only one in 7mm scale. Collectors/completists may want to buy one of everything (and I'm very grateful they do!) but at twice the price during a time of generally higher living costs there may be a point where the quantities don't stack up. IRM/AS will be much better placed than me to know how the sales numbers work out. There must be some saving in producing a model of the same prototype in two different scales - Dapol have done this with some recent releases which may be an interesting comparator- for example the Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0ST and the GWR 14xx.

 

[Darren.d]

0 scale double header 121s would be a fine sight to behold.

[DJ Dangerous]

43 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Thats the question I guess. From a numbers basis we could do something like the 121 or C class for maybe 399-450 Pounds / 450-500€

That would be a great price for something so special and so unique.

For something like a 121, I’d definitely be buying a few at that sort of price, or an A or an 071 for a bit more.

C Class I’d buy one because it’s Irish, but I don’t really have strong nostalgia for them.

141 / 181 would be nice, and cover a great time frame, but I already have a few cardboard units, so wouldn’t go mad buying them.

Dapol have kept the price very low on their forthcoming 66’s. I’m not quite sure how they have done so, and the current pricing is after an increase and a shake-up a year or two ago.

Within two or three months, I can hopefully report back on how they perform.

Not suggesting a 201, just curious as to how they’ve kept such a large loco so cheap.

[Flying Snail]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

Thats the question I guess. From a numbers basis we could do something like the 121 or C class for maybe 399-450 Pounds / 450-500€

Thats a decent price ... and interesting loco choices. A hint of things to come???

[Rob R]

43 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

Thats a decent price ... and interesting loco choices. A hint of things to come???

Only needs one lot of research to do 4mm and 7mm......

[Colonel]

18 hours ago, murrayec said:

The best place to be for scratch building Irish Diesels is at the MRSI & Gauge O Guild open day next Saturday in the MRSI club on Dorset St, usually lots to see and chat with guys building 'O' stuff;-

Eoin.

Maybe someone could have a word at the open day and suggest a few of these folk might like to post on this forum. There's some mighty fine models in Eoin's pictures and it would be great to learn more about them. I've been a Guild member for over 30 years and very little has appeared in the Gazette in that time.

 Stuff like this needs a wider audience, methinks!

[Darren.d]

I think if like you say more people who do 7mm show their work and engage with others more will take an interest and take the plunge like myself iv only started this year I'm a complete newbie to the scale,if IRM sees a genuine interest and there's a new market to explore id love to buy  rtr locomotives.iv no skill in kit building and iv no interest in steam I'm being selfish and id like to see a diesel come to market.

[murrayec]

3 hours ago, Colonel said:

Maybe someone could have a word at the open day and suggest a few of these folk might like to post on this forum. There's some mighty fine models in Eoin's pictures and it would be great to learn more about them. I've been a Guild member for over 30 years and very little has appeared in the Gazette in that time.

 Stuff like this needs a wider audience, methinks!

Unfortunately, a lot of the guys building these models are computer shy. Most of the fix-ups & finishing I do, some featured in my 'Manufactures' thread, are from these guys. I have mentioned before on the forum- about 80% of my clients, including the Gauge O'ers do not want their stuff shown online.

I have suggested to the Guild Rep that they should setup an IRM thread featuring Irish members stuff, nothing came of it.

The 4 models I show above are scratch built by Brendan Kelly & George O'Rourke of the MRSI club. Brendan is a prolific model builder and the main man responsible for hundreds of Irish 'O' & '1' models. Nearly every scratch 'O' model in my manufactures thread has come from Brendan's hands, either he cut out the parts for a member to stick together or fully built by him.

Eoin.

[Darren.d]

Just out curiosity what sorta money does it cost to have a kit built? I tried an ssm brake van and ended up binning it.

[Mol_PMB]

When I was asked to build a kit for someone else I tried to work out how much I would charge based on:

• Number of hours it would take me (could easily be 50 hours - depends on the kit of course, and whether painting and finishing is included)
• Hourly rate (it's skilled work, so probably somewhat higher than minimum wage) multiplied by the number of hours
• Cost of materials I would use (solder, glue, paint, wheels, couplings, electricity, consumables like abrasives, maybe motor, gears etc., maybe DCC chip, LEDs for lighting etc., could easily total hundreds)

People who do this for a living may have developed quicker, more efficient ways of building and painting models than I have. 

There's also a debate as to whether it's a 'straight' build of a good kit, or whether extra work or parts are required to achieve the desired standard of finished model.

I quickly worked out that a price that seemed so high that I couldn't credibly ask it! So I declined to build the model. I can earn a much better rate in the day job and I want to keep the modelling as a hobby not a chore.

[WRENNEIRE]

These might make an appearance on Saturday

 

[Darren.d]

2 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

These might make an appearance on Saturday

 

They are outstanding models dave.there are talented people in the hobby.

[Mayner]

8 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

These might make an appearance on Saturday

 

The late Alec Phillips a talented modelmaker built a scratch built  B141 and a pair of B121 for an MRSI Irish outline O gaugle layout during the late 70s/early 80s. The locos were scratchbuilt in brass or nickle silver with the possible exception of Lima Class 33 power bogies.  Alec worked for Aer Lingus where he instructed shetmetal work apprentices who may have been involved in building the locos as a project.

The signal cabin in the background is a scratchbuilt model of Carlow cabin built for the Irish outline layout together with a scratchbuilt station on Cahir, good to see the cabin survives after more than 40 years. The original layout was basically an oval of double track with a small station with scratchbuilt buildings on one side and fiddle yard on the opposite side. Locos and stock were initially Lima O Gauge "Irish' models with a pair of 4Fs black white snail numbered as "Cattle Engines" and MK1 coaches in CIE green.

Goingback to the original topic: I think a 141 would be a better option than a C or 121 for a 1st quality RTR O gauge loco, a true maid of all work from the 1960-early 2000 at home over a long period on duties ranging from shunting to goods/freight to express passenger work often working singly. 

While no suitable rtr wagon or coaching stock is currently available, the release of a high quality O gauge Irish outline diesel is likely to have a similar effect to MM release of the B141 in 2007 initially with cottage industry suppliers such as IFM and Silver Fox later succeeded/displaced by IRM mass produced Far Eastern models. C-K Prints are already producing O gauge wagons https://ckprints.ie/page/o-guage

Edited March 18 by Mayner

[Colonel]

Thanks Eoin - I wasn't aware of the Manufacturers thread on the Forum, so you've just opened a whole new window of modelling for me! Suspect I might not be the only one either. Looks like there's lots to inspire, not least from your own good self.

[Colonel]

16 hours ago, Darren.d said:

Just out curiosity what sorta money does it cost to have a kit built? I tried an ssm brake van and ended up binning it.

 Back in the day, I seem to remember a starting point for building a kit was about three times its cost. These days, a big steam loco kit is usually well over £500. Motor gearbox £80 - £120, wheels around £200 (a single pair of Slaters drivers is now over £30). So, triple that and you are not far off three grand, which is also not far off what folk like Masterpiece models charge for their custom built short runs of bespoke models.

 If that sounds like a lot, remember that a big loco can easily take 100 hours or more to build and that won't include painting, lettering and so on.

 When you think that a Slaters wagon kit will be around £40 upwards, but a Dapol rtr wagon can be had for £60 or so, the latter is quite a bargain because even a humble wagon will take 10 - 15 hours to build.

 Which is why some many of us are happy to kit and scratchbuild our own stuff, for both the challenge and satisfaction it brings. Hats off though to the professional and semi pro builders who grace our hobby with their expertise - long may they prosper and likewise the manufacturers of components, kits, rtr and indeed the new band of CAD/3D printers. Where would we be without them?

[Tullygrainey]

17 hours ago, Darren.d said:

Just out curiosity what sorta money does it cost to have a kit built? I tried an ssm brake van and ended up binning it.

Ah Darren, don't give up. If we're honest, we've all binned our first, second or even third attempts at kit building. Have another crack at it. It can be a steep learning curve but It does get easier the more you do it and the satisfaction when it goes well makes all the burnt fingers and bad language worthwhile

[murrayec]

Tullygrainey is correct, you cannot give up, persevering is the only way..........

A tip for brass kits that went a bit wonky;-

Take a blowtorch to the model, heat the whole thing up to melt the solder, hold the melt (don't overdo the heat, just enough to keep the solder liquid) and then pick out the parts with a tweezers, clean up the parts with the torch brushing the solder off with a fiber brush and your ready to go again!

White metal parts, if any, need to be removed first with a soldering iron.

Eoin  

[Darren.d]

2 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

Ah Darren, don't give up. If we're honest, we've all binned our first, second or even third attempts at kit building. Have another crack at it. It can be a steep learning curve but It does get easier the more you do it and the satisfaction when it goes well makes all the burnt fingers and bad language worthwhile

I'm on my second ssm brake van.i admire anyone with the Patience and skill to build a brass kit.stevie wonder wearing boxing gloves has more dexterity than I have.

I guess this is why I asked if there's rtr stuff available as I'm sure I'm not the only whos enept at model building.

[Mol_PMB]

If it’s any consolation, I’ve given up on a lot of kits in a fit of frustration! 
But everything I build is a learning experience and over 40-odd years my skills have improved, and I’ve been able to afford better tools too. 
There are still many people whose skills I can only aspire to match, but I’ve reached a level I’m happy with after a lot of learning. 
The SSM GNR brake van is quite a challenging kit to complete well, even now! 

[Colonel]

As above Darren. You only learn by trying. That said, what you try makes a huge difference. Soldering can seem a black art at first and certainly requires care and practice. I suspect quite few of us, me included, have tried to build kits that were beyond our abilities at the time, a case of walk before you try to run.

 Maybe have a go at using plastic sheet and strip, which are much easier to cut and join - the old Airfix, now Dapol, kits are a cheap way to practice. Likewise any card kit, where all you need is a craft knife, steel rule and glue. From here it is a very short step to scratchbuilding in this material.

 Making your own stuff is very satisfying, so choose carefully and you'll be surprised how quickly skills develop and indeed new tools are acquired. 

[Darren.d]

Iv 2 alphagraphix card kits ordered. Iv had a go at scratch building in styrene and considering id cataracts in both eyes at the time I did ok.

Had a go at the gnri signal cabin that was at Connolly station 

[Galteemore]

If you can produce stuff like that you can do brass! 

[Colonel]

Excellent! 

Alphagraphix kits are also a great way into scratchbuilding. Have used them for years, because they are ideal templates for making wagon and coach bodies from plastic sheet and strip. Roger does whitemetal wagon chassis, which can be glued together, rather than soldered (5min epoxy or cyano with accelerator), while he also does an etched brass six wheel coach chassis when you feel able to move into soldering.

Edited March 20 by Colonel

[Flying Snail]

On 19/3/2026 at 12:59 PM, Darren.d said:

Iv 2 alphagraphix card kits ordered. Iv had a go at scratch building in styrene and considering id cataracts in both eyes at the time I did ok.

Had a go at the gnri signal cabin that was at Connolly station 

 

That looks more than okay. Very nice cabin!

[west_clare_wanderer]

To echo others, for me a 141 would have to be the protoype. For exactly the same reason that PM picked it 20 years ago. Long lived, compact, widespread. Dare I say, good looking too! They're the perfect small diesel. 

Sadly, could you honestly see a manufacturer selling 1,000 units in 7mm scale? I'd love to be proved wrong, but I just cannot see there being the demand. Say if it was a 141, most folks might buy one, two at a push, but not the dozen that some purchased in 4mm scale! 

PS - I also love the G Class, and it would suit small shunting layouts, but they are more niche (and we need one in 4mm scale!!). 

 

On 19/3/2026 at 12:59 PM, Darren.d said:

Iv 2 alphagraphix card kits ordered. Iv had a go at scratch building in styrene and considering id cataracts in both eyes at the time I did ok.

Had a go at the gnri signal cabin that was at Connolly station 

 

PPS - that looks great  

[DJ Dangerous]

17 minutes ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

Sadly, could you honestly see a manufacturer selling 1,000 units in 7mm scale? I'd love to be proved wrong, but I just cannot see there being the demand. Say if it was a 141, most folks might buy one, two at a push, but not the dozen that some purchased in 4mm scale! 

Says you!

I’m already saving for a handful of pairs of 121’s!