Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I got 187 of Dave Bracken last Saturday. But one of my pet hates with the MM 141/181 is that when the coupler is fitted you have a big gaping hole on the front of the loco for the coupler to attach to the bogie. The other problem when double heading using the Kadee's some times the 2nd loco would cause the front one to derail on some points due to the bogies pushing together. So I decided to try and over come these problems and improve the look of the loco by not having that big hole in the front. I have had great success with the MM201 using the same method I am going to show you. First of all remove the bogie side frames from the loco. Then with a sharp scalpel cut away the existing coupling box You then need to glue in the front cover panel. I used plastic weld to do this and I also ran a beed of superglue around the back of the panel as this panel is what will take all the weight of your train. I also filled in around the panel and sanded it down Using a piece of Evergreen Box section I cut it to the exact length of my Kadee coupler. This will also be the same for the standard coupler that comes with the loco. The inside of the box section is 4mm x 2mm Next I used my Kadee height gauge I marked where I wanted to locate my coupler box and then I drilled and cut out the hole for the new coupler box Don't forget to glue in the coupler box securely as this needs to take a lot of pressure when removing and fitting the coupler I then repainted the new front valance and fitted my coupler. The great thing about this system is that you can fit all the detailing hoses airlines etc to the front of you loco and your coupler still works. This is the first 141/181 I've done and I have ran 187 with every thing from MIR wagons to Cravens and I've had no problems at all Here is 187 pulling a rake of MIR container wagons. If you want to see more pictures of her weathered up go to my work bench by clicking the link below http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/37-Anthony-s-Workbench/page15 Edited July 3, 2012 by Anthony Quote
Kirley Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Great work Anthony, you make it look simple but that's the sign of a skilled model maker. Quote
skinner75 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Savage! Looks so much better with the large gap plugged up & the hoses fitted Quote
BosKonay Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Love the bridge guard rails too Anthony - did you just glue them in place? Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 Love the bridge guard rails too Anthony - did you just glue them in place? Well spotted mate. I had them on other parts of the layout and Wrenn noticed last Saturday I hadn't fitted any over the bridge. Yes the are just glued in for now but I must get talking to the likes of Rich to see if he can come up with a more realistic solution instead of just glueing them onto the sleepers. Maybe if he reads this he could start a thread on the subject. Anyone any photos of the real thing. Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 I'm glad you guys like the suggestion of improving the look of the 141/181 and I hope some of you give it a go Quote
RedRich Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Well spotted mate. I had them on other parts of the layout and Wrenn noticed last Saturday I hadn't fitted any over the bridge. Yes the are just glued in for now but I must get talking to the likes of Rich to see if he can come up with a more realistic solution instead of just glueing them onto the sleepers. Maybe if he reads this he could start a thread on the subject. Anyone any photos of the real thing. I've read it alright, I am always looking you don't see me but I'm there. Anyway Anto the subject of guard rails is a minefield when it comes to how they are laid. On most examples of bullhead rail that you see on bridges or viaducts the guard rails are held in place by check chairs. Flat bottom rail guard rails like those on your bridge are another different story altogether and it varies from place to place as to how it is fixed. The main objective of the guard rail is to limit the chances of a derailment and they are also installed in areas like railway stations where the platform has a long and continuous curve, an example being this pic of Waterford Plunkett. The inner and center lines are fitted with guard rails because of the gauge widening on the curve. The guard rail is held in place by check chairs in this instance. I have only ever seen one example of flat bottom rail, guard rails before and they were held in place by a system of base plates, bolted to the sleeper, and bolts through the outer rail and the guard rail like in this pic of a check rail in a point at Waterford West. Guard rails are often seen on the outside of the running rails but I never seen that system in Ireland. To be honest if you wanted to model the fixing of the guard rails Anto you would probably have to remove the track, drill the rails, make your own base plates and maybe use some styrene rod to represent the bolts, and some square styrene for the blocks between both rails. I think the fact that you bothered to install guard rails on your model at all deserves a as most people wouldn't think of doing it, so more kudos to you for doing it. By the way it looks great. I will certainly do some more research and see if I can turn up anything else that might be of use. Rich, Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Thanks for that Rich you have given me some more ideas. Looking forward to seeing if you can dig up some more info on the subject Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 Found these in a box of tricks in the loft over the weekend Lima from the early 80's So maybe some of the other manufacturers made some? Quote
Garfield Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Dave, were those pieces not geared towards easy railing of stock before a running session? Quote
MOGUL Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Sorry to change the subject away from guard rails, but I have a question for Anto, does the new coupler set up work okay on tighter radius curves?? thinking of doing a small shunting layout with 141s/181s and they look so much better with your mod I want to try it out. Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Dave, were those pieces not geared towards easy railing of stock before a running session? No idea Pat, just lying in the end of a box of stuff, I dont imagine a curved piece of track aiding railing of stock, which would be easier to rail on a straight? Anyway there they are.......... Quote
irishthump Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 No idea Pat, just lying in the end of a box of stuff, I dont imagine a curved piece of track aiding railing of stock, which would be easier to rail on a straight? Anyway there they are.......... I would say they are rerailers. Yeah it's easier to rail on the straight, but these may be supplied in sets that just contain a simple circle of track. Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Posted July 7, 2012 Sorry to change the subject away from guard rails, but I have a question for Anto, does the new coupler set up work okay on tighter radius curves?? thinking of doing a small shunting layout with 141s/181s and they look so much better with your mod I want to try it out. The tightest point I have is a peco medium. I fitted out a couple more 141's and using Kadee #17 I actually have the buffers working now and no problems. With some stock you might need a longer Kadee something like a #20 but to date I've no problems on my curves. The tightest curve I would have would be a 2nd radius Quote
Kirley Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Anthony have you seen the guard rails on the loop from Central Station to Gt. Victoria Street, the curve must be very tight for the guard rail run right round the loop. Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Posted July 7, 2012 No mate I haven't seen that have you any pictures Quote
Kirley Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Sorry no, but probably Retro could give the proper technical explanation to this track layout as he is familiar with all things NIR. Quote
Guest hidden-agenda Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 That job makes a hell of a difference to the front of loco well done . Quote
islandbridgejct Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Nice conversion there. I've a couple of 141s to convert to get me going on the broad gauge before I start time travelling, so it'll be useful to me. Tara Street has check rails. The rails themselves are square, slightly wider and than the head of the rail and as deep as they are high. They're held in fairly massive special chairs, which hold the rail and the check rail, and the chairs are held down with pandrol clips. Ciaran Cooney has some reasonable shots on Eiretrains. If I can get some close ups over the next few days, I'll post them here. Alan Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Posted July 9, 2012 I will look forward to the photos Alan:tumbsup: Quote
islandbridgejct Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Sorry, Anthony, I'm a bit slow with these. I kept arriving just before my train was due, so this morning I got devious and took them after I got off. Alan [ATTACH=CONFIG]1751[/ATTACH] Quote
Flying Scotsman 4472 Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 Thanks for that very interesting that they are square in shape I always thought they were made from actual rail Quote
islandbridgejct Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 The one's I remember were all ordinary bullhead as well. I was a bit surprised when I realised these are square and not very deep. The chairs holding them are pretty massive. Alan Quote
DiveController Posted June 7, 2015 Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) one of my pet hates with the MM 141/181 is that when the coupler is fitted you have a big gaping hole on the front of the loco for the coupler to attach to the bogie. The other problem when double heading using the Kadee's some times the 2nd loco would cause the front one to derail on some points due to the bogies pushing together. So I decided to try and over come these problems and improve the look of the loco by not having that big hole in the front. I have had great success with the MM201 using the same method I am going to show you. First of all remove the bogie side frames from the loco. Then with a sharp scalpel cut away the existing coupling box You then need to glue in the front cover panel. I used plastic weld to do this and I also ran a beed of superglue around the back of the panel as this panel is what will take all the weight of your train. I also filled in around the panel and sanded it down Using a piece of Evergreen Box section I cut it to the exact length of my Kadee coupler. This will also be the same for the standard coupler that comes with the loco. The inside of the box section is 4mm x 2mm Next I used my Kadee height gauge I marked where I wanted to locate my coupler box and then I drilled and cut out the hole for the new coupler box Don't forget to glue in the coupler box securely as this needs to take a lot of pressure when removing and fitting the coupler I then repainted the new front valance and fitted my coupler. The great thing about this system is that you can fit all the detailing hoses airlines etc to the front of you loco and your coupler still works. This is the first 141/181 I've done and I have ran 187 with every thing from MIR wagons to Cravens and I've had no problems at all The links to the photos in this thread are broken. Did anyone happen to download the photos from the thread as the original owner likely does not have them any more? Thanks in advance if you have them Edited June 7, 2015 by DiveController Quote
Jimbo325ci Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I was actually thinking of doing the same recently but couldn't find the thread! Hopefully the OP or someone has the images somewhere!! Quote
DiveController Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I was actually thinking of doing the same recently but couldn't find the thread! Hopefully the OP or someone has the images somewhere!! The thread was hard to find for me too. Let's hope someone has photos of it! Quote
Noel Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I was actually thinking of doing the same recently but couldn't find the thread! Hopefully the OP or someone has the images somewhere!! Anthony's super photos are still there on photobucket: http://s67.photobucket.com/user/anthon007/media/011-2_zps90518739.jpg.html?sort=3&o=828 Anthony's photos: Edited June 12, 2015 by Noel Quote
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