Kingsbridge - paint shop

[Mayner]

What's the best chassis to use for a "C"? Also, even if not best as such, what's the cheapest and easiest?

 

There is no drop-in chassis as such for the A or C Class,

 

Patrick's and Eoin's idea of a false floor & Tensodo Spud or Black Beetle motor bogie or preferably motor bogies is probably the simplest and most effective option particularly if you want a detailed interior.

 

Personally I would go for a Blackbeetle with the 28:1 gearing option rather than a standard Spud or Blackbeetle to avoid jack rabbit starting and supersonic top speed.

 

While the original Cs had a pretty bad reputation they seem to have been capable of hauling quite heavy goods & mixed trains on the West Cork main line and Valencia line.

[jhb171achill]

Many thanks, folks.

 

Yes, photos show them in front of very heavy loads - this can't have helped their unenviable reliability record!

[irishthump]

SF recommends these Hornby chassis for a plastic "cut and shut" job: Class 25 or 29 or 73, and the C class kit comes with instructions for cutting any of these three. However these are old style basic chassis (i.e. railroad specs) with only four wheel diagonal pickup and one powered bogie.

 

You might try looking at American HO locos. Although I don't have the dimensions to hand, I think something like an F Unit chassis might be a good fit for the C Class.

[Noel]

Confession time - major boo-boo

 

All ready to go - or at least that's what I thought - after using grease proof paper as a backing to cut masking tape templates for cab fascia's

 

Disaster - major mistake 9" white stripe! I used the 3mm masking tape instead of the 2mm. Will have to start again, not happy.

 

Back to square one - redo white stripe properly this time

 

Not entirely happy but its an improvement - White stripe corrected to 6" scale height. She's nearly ready for the tan band.

 

Ah well, I hope I learn from my mistakes!!! Will try and finish this over the next week or so. Btw, this was done using 'Vallejo Model Air' acrylic paints. Pre-thinned straight out of the bottle into the air brush cup. The paint goes on easier and nicer than the Tamiya I've used so far.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[popeye]

A neat job,it will be nice when finished.

[Glenderg]

Great to see Noel. Worthwhile spending a bit on better masking tape ? Thoughts? R

[Noel]

Great to see Noel. Worthwhile spending a bit on better masking tape ? Thoughts? R

 

Thanks Obi-Wan (Richie).

 

Is there a brand you recommend? So far I've been using Tamiya and Model Craft masking tapes (2mm, 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, etc). The Tamiya white 'curved' tape (i.e. for cab fascia) seems awkward to use, it just won't stick to anything.

 

Richie do you mind me asking what backing material you use to pre-cut tape into difficult shapes? I've tried grease proof paper, but it almost sticks too well to the tape, so getting the tape shapes back off it for transfer to model can be tricky.

 

Noel

[Weshty]

Try a smooth clean piece of styrene sheet.

[burnthebox]

Noel, many thanks for all the info regarding paint codes, manufacturers etc. & your time & skill ! as you have shown not just me, a complete novice where respraying, weathering is concerned, what can be achieved by us mere mortals, now mind telling me where you suggest to get my paws on these paints & the various other items you have in your arsenal !!! Thanks

Paul

[Noel]

C class progressing. Mask templates for front of cab (i.e. masking tape on grease proof paper for cutting to shape)

 

Almost ready for decals, weathering and varnishing. I decided to go for the narrow stepped tan band.

 

Just the red buffer beam and door flashing to paint, then decals, and a few bits to be added.

 

As per Richie's recommendation I have found the Vallejo paints a joy to use (model air). Like their bottles and caps cause you can measure fairly accurately by counting drops from the narrow bottle neck with minimal waste. The paint covers really nice and smoothly and seems the perfect viscosity for air brush use.

 

Noel, many thanks for all the info regarding paint codes, manufacturers etc. & your time & skill ! as you have shown not just me, a complete novice where respraying, weathering is concerned, what can be achieved by us mere mortals, now mind telling me where you suggest to get my paws on these paints & the various other items you have in your arsenal !!! Thanks

Paul

 

Hi Paul, Your very kind but I'm a 'complete novice' myself slowly and cautiously trying to learn this stuff. Few pot holes along the way, but really enjoying the journey. The Tamiya acrylics came from idmodels.ie and marks models, the Vallejo acrylic paints from everythingairbrush.com, and the halfords plastic grey primer from halfords. The veda airbrush and compressor from bartsharp.co.uk on Richie's recommendation, and for weathering the railmatch acrylics paints and acrylic thinners from howesmodels.co.uk. Mixing jars and masking tape (tamiya and model craft) from Marksmodels. Noel

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[popeye]

This is looking great.I like the orange band with the step.

If you paint the small round windows with satin black or satin varnish

it would look more like glazing.

[jhb171achill]

 

 

 

Hi Paul, Your very kind but I'm a 'complete novice' myself slowly and cautiously trying to learn this stuff. Noel

 

 

 

Well, if that's the work of a "complete novice"........ fair play to ye!

 

Excellent stuff!

[richrua]

Really crisp, patient job. Well done Noel

[Mayner]

Nice job Noel, you seem to be taking to painting and lining like a duck to water. The "dipped orange" scheme was a classic as the As & Cs were re-motored while the Crossley enginned locos soldiered on in a mainly black scheme with white chevrons above the cabs and sometimes a small yellow warning panel.

[Noel]

I've used a 141 chassis for the C class. Thank you for the encouragement guys, especially considering the pool of talent and experience from whence it came. Seeing what you guys have achieved inspires beginners like me to try and risk mistakes. Really enjoying the iterative trial and error learning process. I've had to acquire patience and spend time planning before lifting a tool.

 

Currently cutting up a 141 chassis to fit in her, which looks like it should fit perfectly once the redundant brake cylinders are removed from the 141 bogie front ends, or the bogies sides are replaced with the supplied resin ones. I'm loath to do that as the Bachman bogie sides are part of a snap fit unit that seals the gears from dirt.

 

 

Stripped 141 chassis with part of the metal chassis cut away at both cab ends.

 

 

Managed to adjust the ride height so she buffers up correctly with rolling stock. Chassis recessed into SF resin body shell using plastic stops.

 

 

The 141 chassis fits well and the bogies do not foul the front end of the loco when crossing points or on curves because the lead brake cylinders have been removed which gives clearance for bogie to pivot. Fuel tank will need some adjustment too.

 

 

In the cold light of day some blemishes become apparent, so either my mild tendency for OCD will force me to tidy them up, or I'll try and hide them with weathering.

 

 

Still trying to decide which way I will get the running lights working as this era of C class did not have head lamps. The MM chassis had tiny LEDs on two small cab PCBs and used clear plastic strips to transfer the light around corners to the outside of the 141 body shell. I may try fibre optic cable and reused the MM PCBs, otherwise 1mm LEDs placed through holes in the body where the moulded light fittings are.

 

Why cut up an MM 141/181?

 

Some might ask why I cut up a lovely MM 141 chassis for a mere Silverfox C class kit, but it was just cost maths, alternatives such as a pair of BlackBeetle 27:1 ratio power bogies cost nearly as much as a 141/181, yet I'd still have to fabricate a chassis, and a Hollywood Foundry centre drive chassis would have cost more than an MM loco. I really wanted a precision centre drive chassis with all wheel pickup and all wheel drive for slow running quality and prototypical behaviour when shunting, etc, and sacrificing an MM 141/181 made sense because it cost less but delivered all the goodies including all the electrics such as 21pin DCC socket, lights, speaker cradle, etc. Like many others I've been able to acquire baby GMs for anything between €80-105. I apologise to anybody who considers I have committed modelling heresy Also a B&T C class hauling loose coupled goods wagons or a pair of coaches for rural branch passenger traffic really appeals to me. If this works well, I will try another in flying snail Green livery.

 

PS: stripping the bachmann/MM chassis was painful and as complicated as doing a jigsaw in reverse - I had serious doubts about the wisdom of such a move, but as they say burn your bridges and there can be no going back.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel
typo

[jhb171achill]

A beautiful job overall!

[burnthebox]

Noel, I wish you all the best on this one, & I don't even know where you got that body of that loco from ! I feel you're going to where no man has gone before, bravery comes to mind.....but that's looking mega,

Paul

[JasonB]

Very precise lines Noel.You'll be offering a respray service next at this rate

[Noel]

Noel, I wish you all the best on this one, & I don't even know where you got that body of that loco from ! I feel you're going to where no man has gone before, bravery comes to mind.....but that's looking mega,

Paul

 

Hi Paul, Thanks. By 'body' I presume you meant the 141 chassis. Yes, I bought a 'used' MM 141 model on eBay for €90 a few years ago as a donor. Originally the chassis was intended for another loco project I was planning, but I then discovered it was an almost perfect 'drop in' fit for the SF C class. Just had to cut about 4mm off each end of the metal chassis, otherwise its a snug fit and the bogies just clear the forward side panels once the forward brake cylinders are removed. I used a carborundum cutting disc on a mini drill rather than a hack saw. Hopefully it will run really well. Hoping to gloss varnish on Wed, then decals, matt varnish and finally glazing. With some luck it may be finished at the weekend. I'm going to save the spare 'body' parts off the 141 chassis for weathering practice using washes.

 

You'll be offering a respray service next at this rate

 

Thanks Jason, your very kind, but I think not! It's hard enough to find time for the hobby myself. There are plenty of excellent folk on here offering top class respray services. I was just curious to try a few loco projects myself. I have another loco project in the pipe line when this C class is finished, and more goods wagons to convert to Irish and weather.

[Noel]

A light dusting of weathering before a few final touch ups and decals

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[burnthebox]

Noel, it may be me that's got things wrong, but I'm referring to the BODY the one on Page 6 that's now got a new coat on here on Page 9, #90, it's looks like an A or C class !!!

Paul

[Glenderg]

Noel, Eoin "super boffin" of DART fame makes some excellent bogie sideframes for the C-class that have real "meat" to them, and I'd recommend getting some, if he has any to spare. The GM sideframes just look totally wrong, and they're easy the remove. When you think of it, the only real detail on the C class is below the skirt, battery boxes, bogies etc. so if you can up the spec there, you'll have a tasty model.*

 

*aside from the fact that the front looks like it got a belt of a shovel, and the windows are at the wrong height and size.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Glenderg

[Noel]

Noel, Eoin "super boffin" of DART fame makes some excellent bogie sideframes for the C-class that have real "meat" to them, and I'd recommend getting some, if he has any to spare. The GM sideframes just look totally wrong, and they're easy the remove. When you think of it, the only real detail on the C class is below the skirt, battery boxes, bogies etc. so if you can up the spec there, you'll have a tasty model.*

 

Hi Richie. Interesting idea and I'll look into it. I will see if I can fabricate rigid enough replacement bogie frames in plasticard that Eoin's or even SF's sides could be glued onto (i.e. Eoin's may be a different length to suit the tenshodo spud drive he uses). Cutting the GM sides off the existing bogie frame destroys its integrity which is part of the sealing mechanism for the bogie gears, and the NEM pocket.

 

*aside from the fact that the front looks like it got a belt of a shovel, and the windows are at the wrong height and size.

 

I know, I know, but sure it'll have to do for now, but almost certain not for too much longer Well Richie I'm really looking forward to seeing the CAD drawings of the IRM A class RTR model when it is announced, and even more looking forward to buying a few IRM A classes when released in 201?. Then 'shovels' will be banished forever from Irish model railway layouts, except for PW track side crews and fire plate crews on Woolich N class. No doubt the IRM model will have working lights, fans, windscreen wipers, opening doors, sound, transparent grill mesh, cab drivers with blinking eyes, and glazing quality yet to be seen on a model loco. We will then be able to nickname SF metrovicks 'Shovel Face', but in the mean time I like them and they continue to pass the 'duck test'. I have absolutely no doubt you can save us all from shovel faces, and looking forward to it.

 

Noel, it may be me that's got things wrong, but I'm referring to the BODY the one on Page 6 that's now got a new coat on here on Page 9, #90, it's looks like an A or C class !!!

Paul

 

Hi Paul, ah - that's an RTR SF A class I bought two years ago. Its a hideous runner on a Hornby 'rail road' spec chassis. The one on this thread is a resin kit SF C class. I'm hoping it will be a better low speed runner and have scale acceleration/deceleration characteristics without juddering. C classes did a lot of shunting in goods yards. Noel

Edited April 25, 2017 by Noel

[DiveController]

Noel, it's a nice job and I'm sure she'll run well. I have to agree with Richie that the side frames would benefit from being replaced which would give the best of both worlds. She is a bit plain on top and will look nice when numbered and weathered a little. Nice job though

Edited April 27, 2017 by DiveController

[Junctionmad]

Well, if that's the work of a "complete novice"........ fair play to ye!

 

Excellent stuff!

 

He forgets to mention 20 years of RC model aircraft modelling !!

[Noel]

121 class. (Next project while waiting for C class bits).

 

This will be an 'iterative' job and take time to bring it up to a standard I am happy to run. Starting with fitting a chassis, painting, glazing, then adding hand rails, grip rails, bits'n'pieces, possible bogie sides, couplings, etc. The MM model is hopefully just around the corner for release, but I was just mildly obsessed with having a 121 class to run in the mean time.

 

Video - Chassis trials before painting

 

Athearn SW-1500 chassis bought on eBay seems to perform well with centre drive, all wheel drive and all wheel pickup. The fuel tank will have to be replaced and investigating replacement or covering of bogies sides. 3D body shell from Shapeways.

 

8pin DCC socket. It only has head lamps (i.e. no running lights), but these can be easily transferred as there are no daft optic plastics to engineer. Had to cut away metal lugs at each end of the chassis which were used for body screws and the kadee couplings.

 

Not a bad impression of a 121 for a 3D print with some bits added. 1st prime using Halfords which is great for filling the 3D effect.

 

The 3D surface texture will need to be rubbed down

 

Made up some pads to rub 3D surface texture down a bit to get rid of that 3D effect

 

Cut out shapes for chassis mounts and cab flooring

 

Chassis mounting plates installed after height checks for buffer alignment and Kadee gauge test

 

Running trials to check chassis clearance, coupling height, ride height, etc. Note the scale width gap between the buffers (i.e. for 5'3" gauge), ideally I should replace these buffers with sprung oval buffers and move them inboard slightly to match the buffer gaps on rolling stock designed for 4'8.5" gauge. Compromise will be required for compatibility with other stock.

 

Masking - I made the same major boo-boo as on the C Class making the white stripe 1mm wider than needed and had to redo it again later!

 

Mask template on grease proof paper for front end

 

This had to be adjusted to centre the masking

 

After correcting the width of the white stripe - I decided to paint the white strip as a single continuous line and the later paint black over the correct broken sections (i.e. for grill and numbers), because it was easier to mask once in a straight line.

 

Step 1 complete - Next break the white stripe, weathering, decals, rails, grab rails, lights, few bits'n'pices, etc.

 

Pre-finishing track trails - I couldn't help but play trains

 

A pair of black'n'tans at work

 

Now working on varnish, decals, wire fittings, glazing, brake pipes, fixing paint snags, etc. More to follow in due course.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[Noel]

CIE 121 progress. White stripes cut, light weathering prior to gloss varnish in preparation for decals.

 

Holes drilled for guard rails and grab handles

 

Tea for two! CIE 121 Class no B121 and CIE C class no B233 both nearing the end of their visits to printshop before detailing and fitting of chassis. The 121 class has an Athearn SW-1500 donor chassis and the C class has a donor chassis from a Murphy Model 141 loco.

 

Had lightly weathered both before varnishing with Humbrol acrylic gloss aerosol can prior to application of decals. Now will seal with Humbrol acrylic matt aerosol varnish to get the shine back off both of them and hopefully make the weathering as visible as it used to be before the gloss. Detailing, glazing and hand rails will be added after they have been sealed.

 

 

These are my first loco kits so taking it easy and not being to adventurous with specs. Need to learn to walk before I run. Both have centre drive DCC chassis and both will have sound.

 

PS: Yes the B233 decal is too large on the cab ends! As are the roundels too, and the wrong colour!!! Decals are not something I get on with.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

Very nice!

 

Re decals, I think the white letters / tan broken wheel version* is available now?

 

(* correct for locomotives, desert sand buses, and "H" and "Palvan" type goods stock when painted grey. (white on others!)).

 

Excellent work....

[Kirley]

Looking good Noel.

[richrua]

That's a very good job and we'll described Noel!

[popeye]

Both models look super,i like your paintwork and the video of

the 121 sounds great.

[Mayner]

Great to see you taking the initiative to build these locos rather than waiting for a rtr model to arrive. As you modelled B233 its only fitting that you fit it with a Maybach Sound unit same as used in the Western Region Warships and some DB 200 Class locos:)

 

[Noel]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. C class ready for finishing in next few days. Due matt varnish today and perhaps some more weathering before adding details and finally chassis runs. Waiting for a sound chip.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[MOGUL]

Great work Noel.. bit of a random idea and maybe to late.. but could you put the 121 on the MM 141 chassis and then use the athern under the C with new bogie sides.. would save a lot of work methinks!

[jhb171achill]

That's a mighty job! Front numbers a bit big as you said, but overall looks great.