From the Catacombs

[leslie10646]

Well, I stopped to have lunch while replying and others got in! I was going to say -

It's a Muck Train - Spoil Train to non-Ulstermen.

Taken from the rear Class WT 2-6-4T of the train - I say that because the smoke APPEARS to be blowing towards the photographer. Certainly on the EAST side, as the unloading shutes are visible.

Not working very hard, so probably , the train is between Magheramorne and Whitehead on a loaded working - I say that because of the fields. If it was climbing the MOunt Bank (the other place on the line with fields) I'd have thought that the loco would be working much harder? Also, isn't there a footpath alongside the line from Carrick to Whiteabbey and that's not visible.

It's still possible to recreate the scene in model form thanks to a certain person's kits of spoil wagons!

Edited March 28, 2020 by leslie10646

[leslie10646]

The Larne photo is interesting - I haven't seen many (any?) quite like it - have you the negative?

The crane shot - in theory, it may be possible to identify it from the existence of TWO NCC-style sheds in line behind the wagons - there can't be many such examples?

[Lambeg man]

The snow plough engine appears to be a class 'V' 0-6-0 (either of the No's 13-15) prior to their rebuilding in 1951.

 

[Galteemore]

2 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

The Larne photo is interesting - I haven't seen many (any?) quite like it - have you the negative?

The crane shot - in theory, it may be possible to identify it from the existence of TWO NCC-style sheds in line behind the wagons - there can't be many such examples?

Leslie, I think it’s Carrickfergus , given the two sheds. The left hand one has smoke vents indicating a loco shed, and that would fit. See attached pic from RPSI website. Could occasion be the lifting of the harbour branch?  I also thought of Ballymena but I think that was a brick shed. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Galteemore

[minister_for_hardship]

On 3/26/2020 at 2:07 PM, PorkyP said:

There's a little memorial stone and a few feet of track nearby..pic taken when over that way last year.

Looks disturbingly like a headstone!

[Lambeg man]

Are those narrow gauge goods vans in the background? I ask given their height relative to that of the man standing on the right. However, I think Galteemore's suggestion is very hard to argue against.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Lambeg man

[leslie10646]

Yes, I'm sure Mr R is right and it is Carrick - he should know!

JHB, the VS (at GV Street, in case you hadn't worked that out) is probably No.206 "Liffey" - the smoke deflectors are the clue. I used to think she was the only one with these extended ones, but another VS had them too, "Foyle" so it's just "probably". I much preferred the smaller variety carried by "Lagan, "Boyne" and "Erne". By a strange coincidence, I never actually saw the large deflectored version, as the UTA got "Lagan" and "Erne". The CIE pair with large deflectors did not last into the 1960s as "runners".

Nice handbills, Mr Lambeg. Seeing the one for The Glens playing Pordiedown, reminded me of the most unusual place where I saw a Glentoran supporter's scarf - Tirano in Italy! I was walking from the Rhaetian Railway's station to the Basilica when I espied a shop window full of footie scarves and there it was. Another connection with your handbill - I was with a lady who had studied at Portadown College.

Small World (not small enough, on current experience!).

[jhb171achill]

I wonder if that girder IS at Carrickfergus, but destined for Derry Central? All I have is a note which says "D Cent"...... or, were there any stations on the "D Cent" with such sheds?

I would defer to superior knowledge! If Ciarán Cooney is about, he's a good man for identifying stations!

[jhb171achill]

NCC narrow-gauge time, and NIR about 1972.  GVS pic 1974.

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

Hunslets.

I remember their unique “whistling” sound, sounded very strange among CIE GMs and AEC and MED railcars!

1. Carrickfergus, 1985

2. Belfast Uncentral, c.1976

3. 1970, taken from an official photo.

4.  Derry fertiliser at Lisburn, date uncertain but probably c.1985.

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

I’d love to know what this little beauty of a passenger brake is.

Senior caught it at Ballyclare in 1947, and said it looked as it it had been there for a long time, stuffed up against a buffer stop.

[Lough Erne]

looks like a BNCR brake - see pg68 of Des Coakhams book.  1878 origin apparently. 

[jhb171achill]

Yes, the flat sides prove BNCR - I'm interested in the 1878 date though, and where it was used - probably everywhere. Must check Des' book.

[jhb171achill]

York Road, Belfast, 1988 

Short lived Larne container traffic. Some containers had black bands, others maroon. Any ideas what the difference was?

The “Red Star” was for the parcels traffic of that name.

Only two of those English Electric shunters the light grey livery. The other went through three different slight variants of an all-maroon livery.

The standard gold NIR transfer can be seen on the the containers.

That bean-can-on-wheels, the “Castle” class as they were known at first, is in original livery. It was pretty bright, so it got dirty quickly,

[PorkyP]

You just wonder, who it was that thought colour schemes like that would be good on a railway..!

[NIR]

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

York Road, Belfast, 1988 

Short lived Larne container traffic. Some containers had black bands, others maroon. Any ideas what the difference was?

Is that an NCC open wagon chassis?

Oversize and butted up, out of use?

Edited March 30, 2020 by NIR

[jhb171achill]

Yes it is, NIR! There were a few lying about still at that stage.

[jhb171achill]

Today’s contribution is a few old relics. (The pictures, not me...)

1. The original Belfast Central Railway Station, near Oxford St. in Belfast, c.1947.

2.  Original Dublin & Kingstown Railway track, which my father found secreted away at Inchicore; my grandfather had remembered it bring out there. Senior arranged for it to go to the then Belfast Transport Museum. Sadly, after being set down beside the GNR railbus which was then quietly decomposing outside, it disappeared, never to be seen again (so far, anyway).

3.  Unique tricompo brake No. 19, built by the GNR in Dundalk (about 1910, I think), as a slip coach. It was slipped as it came into Dublin so that it would trundle down to the LNWR station for ferries. a remarkable survivor. Withdrawn in 1959 by the UTA, it was still in GNR livery when I found it in a field near Banbridge in 1985. It had “U T” still stencilled on its end. It had a corridor connection at one end only and was still good structurally.

I alerted the fledging Downpatrick railway straight away, but they found it had a 1ft deep concrete floor, while used as a chicken house, thus preventing lifting, and therefore preservation.

It was subsequently broken for firewood by the farmer.

[murrayec]

The 'sleeper' stones and chairs are set in the ground outside & across from the Cultra building entrance, no track though....

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

24 minutes ago, murrayec said:

The 'sleeper' stones and chairs are set in the ground outside & across from the Cultra building entrance, no track though....

Eoin

Yes, the rails have gone. There was a very early piece of Ulster Railway bridge rail that was also given to them. It was, from memory, about three feet long. I wonder where that went!

[Midland Man]

is that the BCDR royal saloon in the 3rd pic?

[Lambeg man]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Unique tricompo brake No. 19, built by the GNR in Dundalk (about 1910, I think), as a slip coach. It was slipped as it came into Dublin so that it would trundle down to the LNWR station for ferries. a remarkable survivor. Withdrawn in 1959 by the UTA, it was still in GNR livery when I found it in a field near Banbridge in 1985. It had “U T” still stencilled on its end. It had a corridor connection at one end only and was still good structurally.

Hi Jon,

Yep, built 1910 as a classification 'I 1'. The corridor connections are shown to have been removed between 1922 and 1928, by which year it had been reclassified as 'J 7'. It was withdrawn in August of 1959.  Are you saying that it had a corridor connection fitted when you saw it in 1985? Further, where does your information come that it was 'Slip Fitted'? I ask as it is not shown as such in any of the GNR 'Classification of Coaching Stock' books. Furthermore, Norman McAdams in his Journal article on the subject, stated that the two through carriages for the North Wall service were latterly No. 39 and No. 40.

All the same, great photo's and thank you for posting. You're doing a great service in keeping spirits up.

[jhb171achill]

38 minutes ago, Lambeg man said:

Hi Jon,

Yep, built 1910 as a classification 'I 1'. The corridor connections are shown to have been removed between 1922 and 1928, by which year it had been reclassified as 'J 7'. It was withdrawn in August of 1959.  Are you saying that it had a corridor connection fitted when you saw it in 1985? Further, where does your information come that it was 'Slip Fitted'? I ask as it is not shown as such in any of the GNR 'Classification of Coaching Stock' books. Furthermore, Norman McAdams in his Journal article on the subject, stated that the two through carriages for the North Wall service were latterly No. 39 and No. 40.

All the same, great photo's and thank you for posting. You're doing a great service in keeping spirits up.

Thank you, Lambegman - it keeps me amused too!

I have most of Senior's negatives. I have many much older ones, taken on a family farm in the 1900-20 period - but they're of people, picnics, the pet dogs and donkey, and cows!

About ten or twelve years ago I left all of his railway negatives into a developer.  Some prints came back ok, a few good, but let us say he didn't get the amount of money he wanted a single they were a mediocre-to-bad job. Then again, some of the negs were t the best (though most were), and some pics were not, to be fair, composed very well.

But an average photo of something historic is better than none. So that's what I'm sharing.

The reference to that coach being a slip coach came from senior. But I did read it somewhere too, I am nearly sure. I think it was an old GNR list somewhere. I will try to find it at some stage.

It has a gangway at the "passenger" end, and clearly had never had one at the guards van end. The van interior was perfectly preserved, with "TO CARRY 7 TONS" stencilled on the bulkhead. 

If you walked in from the gangway end, first you're in a vestibule. Jax on left, but curiously nothing on right, and no door. Now, go ahead. You're into the 1st, which is open (centre corridor), with two seating bays each side. At the end - and you can go no further; this gangway only allowed access to a third of the coach, is a full-width bench.

The rest of the vehicle was non-corridor. There was a 2nd compartment next, then another, then a 3rd. I can't remember whether the middle of these three was 2nd or 3rd. Thus, it was either 1-1 2 2 3, or 1-1 2 3 3. And at the end, a 7ft guards compartment.

You can see the gangway in the pic on the right hand side. Given the interior design, it clearly always had one at that end, and none at the other.

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Midland Man said:

is that the BCDR royal saloon in the 3rd pic?

No, GNR Brake Tricomposite No. 19.  Built 1910, withdrawn by UTA 1959. Pictured in a field near Banbridge in 1985,. It was broken up within the following year.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

ALBERT QUAY 1953

Some impressive trackwork there.....

[Mayner]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

ALBERT QUAY 1953

Some impressive trackwork there.....

The Pre-Amalgamation companies did not shy away from complicated trackwork especially where space was tight.

The map is from before the yard was modified to accommodate the Cork City Railway and the Hibernian Road overbridge.

Forget attempting to build Albert Quay with Peco or other ready to lay track point systems, lots of custom formations.

At one stage the connection from the Main Line to the Cork City Railway and the goods yard appears to have been a 3 way point with a single slip completing the crossover on the goods yard side, there also appears to have been a scissors crossover on the connection to the Quarry loco yard.

The photo appears to be from the signal cabin looking West possibly before closure of the West Cork system. Main line and connection to the Cork City Railway in right center, Rocksavage Wagon Works on right, train being shunted/made up on goods yard lead under Hibernian Road Bridge, weighbridge road with loading gauge to left of huts, deserted Quarry Loco Yard to far left of photo. It looks that the crossover from the goods yard to the main line was moved out towards the Hibernian Road Bridge eliminating a 3 way point and a single slip, which would have reduced track maintenance cost and simplified shunting in a complex and cramped yard. 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

Question: who invented the name “Rocksavage”?

I don't think it ever was the actual name of the locality,

[PorkyP]

There was a posh estate house built in the 1850s, called Rocksavage, near Castletownroche...??

[Garfield]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Question: who invented the name “Rocksavage”?

I don't think it ever was the actual name of the locality,

Could be like 'Float' on the Inny Junction-Cavan branch? I believe the name was given to it by the MGWR...

As for Rocksavage, there was a D L Savage French who was the CBSCR's deputy chairman at one time. Might be a family connection?

[jhb171achill]

10 minutes ago, Garfield said:

Could be like 'Float' on the Inny Junction-Cavan branch? I believe the name was given to it by the MGWR...

As for Rocksavage, there was a D L Savage French who was the CBSCR's deputy chairman at one time. Might be a family connection?

Could be.

I wonder did the railwaymen ever call it the “quarry”...... it actually wasn’t a proper loco depot or shed at all - more just a set of loco sidings.

[jhb171achill]

BEET, 2005.

The second last season, and the last I personally saw of them. A recent post elsewhere referred to the fact that the cabs of the 121s were considerably higher than the 141s. Here we can see this.

Plus, a 201 at Cherryville with Mk 2s in that ghastly orange, yellow and black livery......

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Have to disagree jhb, I think the Galway livery behind an orange 201 is one of the nicest train formations that ran in modern times
That livery really looks good with a 201

[jhb171achill]

It matches it, to be fair, and in fact I think it’s the only thing that did - but they never seemed to keep them clean, either....

[jhb171achill]

NIR - Some railcars:

The one showing the “Enterprise” is 1985. Not often is the driving trailer end seen....

1.  A 70 newly painted at York Road, c.1979.

2.  80 No. 87 in ORIGINAL style of end white marking. They had no end logo. This is about 1974, the first year that the first batch entered traffic, and remaining AEC cars were set aside to be de-engined for a very short career as loco-hauled stock.

3.  After their first repainting, they got the “diamond” white patch, with NIR symbol included. This is 86 on an unknown date.

4.  69 newly painted with “citytrack” stickers, c.1979. These were put on MEDs too. I don’t recall seeing them on 70s, but I might be wrong on that.

5.  I think this is 68 - the mid 1980s livery. The sets hired by CIE were in this livery.

6.  We don't often see the business end of an “Enterprise” push pull driving trailer. Not the most beautiful things on the planet. 1985.

 

[jhb171achill]

Finally, (7) - No 99, above, mid 1980s.

I recall standing with another RPSI person in Belfast non-Central around then, and I was introducing him to Sir Myles.

Our RPSI colleague had a great wit, which he still retains; let us call him Tarquin*.

The conversation went like this:

Me:  ”Myles, this is one of our regular travellers and a long-standing member, Tarquin”.

MH:  “Hello, Tarquin, good to meet you”

(They shake hands, ignoring social distancing).

Tarquin:  “nice to meet you too! I think I’ve seen your name on a railcar somewhere!”

Sir Myles nearly burst laughing......!

 

(* Not his real name. Do not try this at home. May contain traces of nuts. This call is being recorded for etc etc)

Edited March 31, 2020 by jhb171achill