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Interesting pictures...

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Seeing these pics I was inspired to recreate the scene on my own work in progress layout. I took these last time I was home 2 weeks ago and then forgot my camera when I went back to work. There is no 1/72 AW139 yet (hint hint IRM if you want to diversify ;) ) so I had to use my EC135 instead. 

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Does the bird have kadees, and does it run on 21mm gauge track?

The shade of orange is wrong, and the corridor connections aren't the right type........🙀

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58 minutes ago, WaYSidE said:

see also same seller,

Ah, I should have looked further..

The first one came up for me because it was at Ballybrophy, and I have a search logged in for that.

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47 minutes ago, DiveController said:

Whats the origin of the last 4w XP wagon?

Appears to be an ex-GSWR horse box - Number on the solebar ?663G.

Ken

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On 4/14/2019 at 6:12 PM, Broithe said:

Ah, I should have looked further..

The first one came up for me because it was at Ballybrophy, and I have a search logged in for that.

i dont have many searches for train stuff, but i have heaps of searches and alerts for other stuff, its often the case the items i looking for dont appear in my searches, i still have to go looking for them, with strange key words, 

indeed, in past 4 years some of my murphy models came from unspecific searches for model rail, or black n orange, i got a great deal with a toy train search some years back, bought a big box of cravens for very little.

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My automated search for "Murphy Models" often brings up pictures of young ladies of Irish heritage.

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11 minutes ago, Broithe said:

My automated search for "Murphy Models" often brings up pictures of young ladies of Irish heritage.

i noticed, but she wouldnt fit in the letterbox, so i spent me readies on the new plough.

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2 hours ago, WaYSidE said:

i noticed, but she wouldnt fit in the letterbox, so i spent me readies on the new plough.

A man of your capacity should be able to construct a larger letter box.

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4 hours ago, Broithe said:

My automated search for "Murphy Models" often brings up pictures of young ladies of Irish heritage.

Some years ago I was told that a company called Bexley Models in the UK had some Irish Lima O Gauge models for sale on their website

I googled Bexley Models . Com instead of .co.uk

Best hung lads I had ever seen, made me jealous

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I'm only catching up on this particular thread now. Broithe has shown some very interesting photos, via eBay .

Former GNR P1 bogie luggage van, 786N, at Limerick in 1969 in black 'n tan livery!! Whoever knew that? 

Coakhams 'Irish broad gauge carriages' says the GNR built three of these vans in 1930 and a further 10, with steel frame bodies in 1944.

The horse box number 142, also photographed at Limerick in 1969 is also interesting. Is it my imagination or is this not longer than the standard GSR/CIE vans? It looks to my eyes closer to the GWR/BR vehicles, as modelled by Hornby and previously, Lima.

Coach number 845 is also interesting. Almost certainly a GSWR/GSR non-corridor 3rd. Photo was taken at Amiens Street ( Connolly for younger readers) in 1968. I wonder was it renumbered into the 4001-4053 series in 1969. I note that it is coupled to coach number 2109, a GSR suburban compo, dating from 1928. Was this the clattery collection of carriages which CIE put together for Dublin suburban services in the late 60s/early 70s? Although including a corrugated open wagon, as in the photo, might have pushed public tolerance just a little bit too far....

 

Cheers,

Glover

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On 4/15/2019 at 9:29 PM, KMCE said:

Appears to be an ex-GSWR horse box - Number on the solebar ?663G.

Ken

The number is 142, indicating GSWR origin indeed. The chassis is normal wagon length, not the longer style favoured in Britain. Most Irish horse boxes were a shorter chassis. The ?.6.65.G refers to a general overhaul ("G") on the ?th of June 1965.

Yes, the surviving old wooden bogies by about 1970 were renumbered into the 4xxx series for peak summer traffic use in the Connolly station to Bray / Howth / Mosney area, and Cork to Youghal summer excursions.

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I've an idea that GNR "P" van in CIE livery was unique. The UTA painted several green, and even NIR managed to inherit at least two, being painted into their all-over maroon. "P" vans, by their appearance in any livery, see, never, ever to have been cleaned - I don't recall ever seeing a picture of one in anything other than a liberal coating of general grime and caked brake-dust! This one's no exception.

There's one at Whitehead - or was - on which the NIR markings may still be made out.

CIE didn't keep too many ex-GNR vans, as at the time the GNR was split between them and the UTA, they were churning out new "tin" vans at a rate of knots. The closure of much of the GN didn't help their survival. Many ex-GN vehicles of all types which came into CIE ownership never turned a wheel again and were scrapped quite soon.

And look to the left of the "P" van! The end of that coach....got to be one of the last surviving DSER vehicles in traffic!

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Hi JHB,

Looks like I'm not the only one who spends an unhealthy amount of time squinting into the murky background of old photos!

However, I'm not in agreement on your calling that coach as DSER. Shepard & Beesley's book on the line says only two DSER coaches survived past 1960 and they were both specialised ; one a tea car and the other a restaurant coach.

Thar GN 'P' van in black 'n tan livery has gone onto my 'must-do' list !

Cheers,

Glover

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Glover said:

Hi JHB,

Looks like I'm not the only one who spends an unhealthy amount of time squinting into the murky background of old photos!

However, I'm not in agreement on your calling that coach as DSER. Shepard & Beesley's book on the line says only two DSER coaches survived past 1960 and they were both specialised ; one a tea car and the other a restaurant coach.

Thar GN 'P' van in black 'n tan livery has gone onto my 'must-do' list !

Cheers,

Glover

The roof profile certainly looks DSER - a bit steep for GSWR, I would have thought though maybe it's the angle?  The wide chassis also might add to this, though other examples existed. Might this coach be one of the two that Ernie Shepherd mentioned?

CIE do seem, though, to have started to eliminate DSER coaches with indecent haste - even by 1950 their ranks were well thinned. Photos of the Harcourt Street line pre-AEC railcars show up numerous GSWR & MGWR types.

Edited by jhb171achill

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I do agree with you JB re the roof profile but I'd still put my money on the Great Southern. As you say, they appear to have applied 'not invented here' to all other companies stock.

Still, looking through Ernie Sheppards book has given me an idea.......

Cheers,

Glover

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Just for the record -

In 1930 the first of a new type of GNR coaching vehicle appeared. They were the first bogie vehicles to have a Flat roof profile and were strictly parcel (and general merchandise) vans as no brake equipment for use by a guard was ever fitted. They were however fitted with continuous brakes and always ran attached to a passenger trains. In overall appearance they resembled American “Box” cars. Although never having been fitted with corridor connections, they had a through steam heating pipe which meant they could run at the front of a rake of passenger coaches, between them and the steam locomotive powering the train. There began a practice of reverse “leapfrogging” whereby one would leave a departure point attached to a passenger train and be dropped off at the next major station for unloading and loading. It would then be collected by a later service to take it on to the next stage of its journey.

The three members of classification P 1 were 48′ 0″ x 8′ 5″ over body and weighed 24½ tons. In terms of construction they had a timber body and timber under-framing. The 1936/44 GNR coaching books show the loading capacity as 20 tons. All were built in 1930, were numbered 779 to 781 and all passed to CIÉ. By 4/59 No. 799 was reported painted in CIÉ’s green livery. Around 1963 No. 780 was painted in the CIÉ black/orange livery and was withdrawn in January 1973, the other two in March of the same year.

Classification P 2 were slightly different, being 47′ 6″ x 8′ 5″ over body and weighing 23 tons. The sliding doors were 6″ wider than the 5′ doors of classification P 1. In construction terms these had timber bodies but steel underframes. The 1936/44 coaching books show the loading capacity as 20 tons. No’s 783 to 788 were all built in 1934, a year when no other passenger stock was produced, the remainder appearing in 1944. The following table gives further information with regard to classification P 2.

Built

No.

Remarks

P’ 58

W’dn

1934

783

 

CIÉ

1/1973

1934

784

 

CIÉ

3/1973

1934

785

 

CIÉ

1/1973

1934

786

 

CIÉ

3/1973

1934

787

 

CIÉ

3/1973

1934

788

May have been refurbished by NIR circa 1970? To the RPSI.

N619

?/1979

1944

755

 

CIÉ

3/1973

1944

757

May have been refurbished by NIR circa 1970? Scrapped on withdrawal, the underframe went to the Downpatrick & County Down Railway group.

N618

?/1982

1944

777

 

CIÉ

3/1973

1944

778

 

CIÉ

3/1973

 It will be seen that only TWO went to the UTA, the rest to CIE. Given the recorded withdrawal dates, it is highly probable that several if not all made it into the B/T livery.

I would be interested to see a photo of the NIR one's post 1970 to see what (if any) alterations were made to their body profile.

 

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Top quality information there Lambeg; many thanks.

Interesting that the 1934 builds were numbered in sequence as opposed to the normal GNR 'spin the wheel' approach to numbering.

Glover

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for your compliment Glover, appreciated.

The renumbering by the GNR of numerous vans into the "700" series began in 1923 and carried on to 1925, the purpose being to lift 4-wheel Other Coaching Vehicles (OCV's), many of which were technically goods vans, out of the general (1 to 500) coaching list. 6-wheelers (i.e. 'W' vans) were not renumbered.

Yet the bogie 'P' vans were numbered into the "700" list (which actually ran up to 856) and pre-1930 withdrawals left the gaps that allowed the sequential numbering of these vans. Your phrase of "spin the wheel" was in most cases the GNR policy of simply back filling vacant numbers for the latest coach production.

Edited by Lambeg man
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I have seen a photograph by Pat McQuail of 779N in freshly applied B&T. Photo says Inchicore, but it looks like Limerick to me. The IRRS may have Pat McQuail's photos now.

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Again, thanks to you Lambeg.

I know I'm a bit like a dog with a bone on this photo of 786N but would anyone agree with me that the end MAY be painted tan?

Does your memory stretch to that level  of detail BSGSV? 

Woof!!

Glover

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19 minutes ago, Glover said:

Again, thanks to you Lambeg.

I know I'm a bit like a dog with a bone on this photo of 786N but would anyone agree with me that the end MAY be painted tan?

Does your memory stretch to that level  of detail BSGSV? 

Woof!!

Glover

Glover, I'm not old enough to remember seeing them in the flesh, I'm afraid. I rely on old photos and documents.

Mr. McQuail's photo was in colour, which was handy, and 779N had a black end, the golden brown and white were just on the sides. I had another look at the photo of 786N, and the white definitely isn't taken across the end anyway. What I didn't spot first time around was the bloke in the background. What was he standing on?

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Thanks for that BSGSV.

I too spotted our friend in the background. He appears to be wearing a duffle coat, which I gather was the height of fashion amount enthusiasts in those days; was there a rail tour to Limerick in 1969? 

This is perhaps getting (more than) a little off topic, so perhaps we should all go back to playing with our trains!

Cheers,

Glover

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Spot on Lambeg re the Brain Boru visit to Limerick. A memorable tour (for a lot of wrong reasons).

The tour was the first since No.171 was overhauled, but unhappily she blew a gland on the way to Dublin (although not without doing 70mph before that happened). So, No.4 (straight off working on the spoil trains) ran solo to Cork, where she contrived to derail her pony truck in the shed yard. 171 worked to Cobh and back, having run Dubin to Cork light engine.

Next day, we returned via Limerick as already reported and guess what? No.4 lost her pony truck again in the shed yard - trapping No.171 inside. So there we were with no loco for the trip onwards to Dublin  and Belfast. The Inspector, the late Paddy Gannon, simply asked our rail tours officer ( the late and estimable Drew Donaldson) - "What do you want to do"?

Now Drew once famously threatened to lie down in front of an ailing 400 class on a tour, to ensure that the tour did not continue with a diesel loco, so not surprisingly asked Paddy to muster a team and rerail the offending truck. A bunch of local pw men did it in double quick time using the most modest tools (including a few sleepers!) and we were back in business after an hour. Well done the Limerick men!

No.171 set off on her own, but very weakly, due to that blown gland. At Ballybrophy, while she took water, it was discovered that No.4 was right behind her on the block, so she came forward to pilot.

What followed was a piece of folklore - for that meant driving her over a facing crossover from the down line (she had running bunker first because of the dodgy pony truck). The CIE driver declined to have the honour of taking No.4 over the crossover - who could blame him with the Sunday rush hour about to begin and the possibility of blocking both main lines? As it happened, the NIR inspector, Frank Dunlop, was on the train to advise the CIE guys on the handling of the tank. So he volunteered to edge her slowly over the points and in front of No.171.

After that, it was relatively plain sailing - I've forgotten how late we were back into Belfast!

Wouldn't have missed it!

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