Bachmann Irish Train Set

[Ironroad]

New unused in original packaging, price 170 euro and available for collection in Dublin between Dec 30 & Jan 4.  If interested please send me a PM thank you

[Look-its-evan]

Hi there. I'm interested in this

kind regards

Evan

You got an email address ?

[DiveController]

Just to point out to a junior member: Some products may have a US transformer voltage/plug but if that's not an issue then you're good. @Look-its-evanClick on Ironroad's logo and you can private message him for details (he may not want to put his email on a forum viewable by non-members)

My one was for the US market but they're hardish to come by and while they're not true to prototype they're a very nice starting point for 1950s era

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by DiveController

[Ironroad]

I acknowledge this item was intended for the US market and contains a 110v transformer. which I can remove or can be discarded by a buyer in Ireland. While the coaches may not be true to prototype being Bachmann LMS coaches painted in Irish livery, the locomotive is an authentic model of a locomotive that was initially operated by the MGWR and later by the GSR and ultimately CIE.

In the early 1920's the MGWR purchased kits of the Southern Railway's (UK) N class and built them at Broadstone, I believe more were later built by the GSR.

When Bachmann produced a model of the Southern N class, Murphy models commissioned them to produce Irish versions and repaints of their LMS coaches to go with it. If there is a discrepancy in the accuracy of the Irish version of this model it is in the size of the driving wheels which were marginally bigger on the Irish K class than the British N class.

Ultimately Bachmann marketed these items as a set in the US (I believe 4.000 sets were produced).   It should be noted that the running numbers on the coaches sold in the US are different to those sold in Ireland.

[DiveController]

As Ironroad says these are very nice sets (I actually have two) Just for the coaches and loco alone these are a very nice buy. If you get the US set it saves you renumbering if you ultimately find some more in EU zone.

[Noel]

Are the models HO scale size or 00 scale?

[Mike 84C]

I also have a set and totally agree with DiveController. Mine did come with a 220v transformer. They are to 4 mm scale = 00.

[WRENNEIRE]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Are the models HO scale size or 00 scale?

They are OO, some info on page 22 of the Lima/MM thread

[Georgeconna]

Not a bad price, I dropped my N class onto the floor from this set.....:/

 

 

[Mike 84C]

Did you not like the model George? Although its a good starting point to make a much more CIE looking loco.

[Georgeconna]

Twas an Accident Mike when I was sticking a Decoder in it knocked it onto the foor. My own silly Fault.  

[Dhu Varren]

On 12/26/2019 at 11:14 PM, Ironroad said:

In the early 1920's the MGWR purchased kits of the Southern Railway's (UK) N class and built them at Broadstone, I believe more were later built by the GSR.

When Bachmann produced a model of the Southern N class, Murphy models commissioned them to produce Irish versions and repaints of their LMS coaches to go with it. If there is a discrepancy in the accuracy of the Irish version of this model it is in the size of the driving wheels which were marginally bigger on the Irish K class than the British N class.

 

There were twenty seven kits purchased in total. The first 20 built had the same size driving wheels as the Southern Railway N Class, namely 5ft 6in, and were designated Class K1. The next six built had 6ft 0in driving wheels, and were designated Class K1a. One kit was never built and was retained as a spare.

[DiveController]

7 hours ago, Dhu Varren said:

There were twenty seven kits purchased in total. The first 20 built had the same size driving wheels as the Southern Railway N Class, namely 5ft 6in, and were designated Class K1. The next six built had 6ft 0in driving wheels, and were designated Class K1a. One kit was never built and was retained as a spare.

Correct and the K1a (393 Class) had modifications to the frame to accept the larger driving wheels and consequently small splashers. The model is basically correct for any of the K class up to No. 391.

Since the MGWR purchased the kits in 1924, only one was completed by the MGWR. The MGWR as one of the three major companies first to be absorbed into the GSR late in that year. The remainder of the kits (except the spare) were completed by the GSR.

Edited December 29, 2019 by DiveController

[Lambeg man]

For me personally the weakest point of the Bachman "K 1" model is the absence of a smoke box wheel. It has the English handles arrangement. Anyone how to source smoke box wheels, a feature of many Irish locomotives?

[Galteemore]

I’m not a 4mm modeller so can only give general pointers. For solid wheels, try looking for North Eastern Railway kit suppliers - 52F Models may help as a starter. For spoked wheels, the LNWR pattern isn’t too far off - maybe try London Road Models? 

[Lambeg man]

Many thanks for that Galteemore.

[Ironroad]

Didn't realise what was I was starting when I advertised this, Anyway it was snapped up very quickly and is sold. I will respond to those that sent me PMs.

Thank you for the interest.

[Branno]

I bought this before Christmas and ended up buying the new one from Ironroad.

There are a few small issues like couplings missing from tender and carriages but nothing too major for skilled people in here. Its 110v from US.

€150 in Dublin if anyone interested

[Ironroad]

On 12/29/2019 at 11:42 AM, Lambeg man said:

For me personally the weakest point of the Bachman "K 1" model is the absence of a smoke box wheel. It has the English handles arrangement. Anyone how to source smoke box wheels, a feature of many Irish locomotives?

Maybe and maybe not.

A smoke box wheel was included in the accessory pack of the black versions of the K1 produced by Bachmann for Murphy Models. It was not included in the train set marketed in the US. But correct positioning may be tricky because there is no hole in the centre of the firebox door to allow accurate easy fixing. 

In doing some research I've seen photographs of the K class with and without a smoke box wheel so this raises the question which ones were fitted with a smoke box wheel and which were not? Does anyone know? I've been hesitant to fit them.

[jhb171achill]

I've a couple of those locos. I've never run them so I don't even know what state they're in. However, my question: are they easy to convert to DCC?

[WRENNEIRE]

Have several meself, never saw a wheel in the accessories, will have to open the box to check it out, bugger!

[jhb171achill]

Thinking of getting GSR numberplates for one and painting it grey, in the hope of someday have a few GSR-liveried coaches to run behind it. Then I can cover 1945-55-65......1970 max!  Beyond that it's brown wagons, diseasels and all that oul shtuff!

Actually, who is it that does those GSW / GS / CIE numberplates?

Edited March 19, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

This is a nice topic! The Irish smokebox wheel probably has a PhD waiting to be written on it - it’s an interesting subject.  Best advice - study photos. Wheels seem to have come on and off different locos. On the SLNC a loco could have a wheel one week and not the next, going by the dates on photos. As to finding them, some Great Central locos had similar wheels - so a UK kit supplier may have some. SLNC and NCC wheels weren’t far off the LNWR pattern - kits again. Or you could make your own from a flat headed pin with a small ring.
 

[minister_for_hardship]

8 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Maybe and maybe not.

A smoke box wheel was included in the accessory pack of the black versions of the K1 produced by Bachmann for Murphy Models. It was not included in the train set marketed in the US. But correct positioning may be tricky because there is no hole in the centre of the firebox door to allow accurate easy fixing. 

In doing some research I've seen photographs of the K class with and without a smoke box wheel so this raises the question which ones were fitted with a smoke box wheel and which were not? Does anyone know? I've been hesitant to fit them.

In the early years, they sported the original flat SECR wheel-less door. Gradually as doors got burnt or worn out, they got replaced with the Inchicore dished door with dart handles or the more widespread wheel.

Note CIE budget numberplate, numerals simply painted on sheet steel and welded to door. The supplied wheel with the model would  not be correct for the flat door, strictly speaking.

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[Mike 84C]

 Narrow Planet do the GSW cast number plates, I have used several and they are very good. Check the website.  Southeastern Finecast will sell a  white metal cast Wainwright  pattern dished smoke box  door and I think Andrew at 51L  has etchings for the circular GCR/LNW pattern smoke box door handles.

And if you really fancy a K1 without to much expence buy a Bachmann N1 on ebay  and remove the BR/SR details, its not hard.

[Ironroad]

Very interesting thank you. So did any flat doors survive into the 1950's?  Otherwise it looks like I'll need to consider a bit of butchering. 

[Galteemore]

Some may have survived - photos are your guide. I’ll have a look when I’m at home. TBH if it was me I’d put a dished door and wheel on anyway. Nothing says 5’3” like a smokebox door wheel !

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, Ironroad said:

Very interesting thank you. So did any flat doors survive into the 1950's?  Otherwise it looks like I'll need to consider a bit of butchering. 

I doubt it. I think they may have been all replaced by or before early CIE days.

First pic was K1 376, still carrying MGWR headlamps date unknown but noted as GSR days, 2nd is K1a 393 in 1947, 3rd is 383 in 1956. Nothing for it but to trawl through photos.

[Midland Man]

I think all the K1s built by the MGWR had SECR smoke box doors as well as smaller driving wheels (5ft 6 in) as they were given by the SECR in kit form. The K1a's were modifyed by the GSR to have bigger wheels (6ft 1in) and the smokebox wheel door. Over time the modland engines were givin new doors over time.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Midland Man

[Ironroad]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I've a couple of those locos. I've never run them so I don't even know what state they're in. However, my question: are they easy to convert to DCC?

Here is a link to instructions on converting this loco to DCC

http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/bachmannndccinstr.htm

I'm aware of your expertise on liveries, so may I ask if any of this class was ever painted green (per the Bachmann/MM version). I believe one may have been painted a gloss black and lined as per Bachmann /MM but is the plain matt black version produced by Bachmann/MM correct or was it in reality grey that  had weathered to a dirty black. The model certainly looks the part and in my vague memory of Irish steam locos they appeared to be black. 

 

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

 TBH if it was me I’d put a dished door and wheel on anyway. Nothing says 5’3” like a smokebox door wheel !

I'm thinking you are right and will probably do this at some point although if you have/find a 1950's photo of one with a flat door that would be convenient. thanks

[Galteemore]

Had a look through the books and read the narrative on the moguls in Clements McMahon. As we thought, no 1950s pics show an original door. The magisterial duo just mentioned imply that doors were replaced on a rolling basis in the 30s. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

had a look through the books and read the narrative on the moguls in Clements McMahon. As we thought, no 1950s pics show an original door. The magisterial duo mentioned above imply that doors were replaced on a rolling basis in the 30s. 

.....and could very well have been swopped from time to time, like almost every single part of any steam engine.

The RPSI's 184 and 186 have numerous bits with the numbers of other engine stamped on them. I believe 461 and 462 swopped boilers at one time - a variation within a class of but TWO locomotives!

When I was in Indonesia in the late 70s / early 80s chasing the last of their steam, the loco livery included the loco number painted on both the tender and the cabside.  I went to Madiun to see the legendary B50s, of which only about ten of the original sixty were still in traffic - nominally, at any rate; the daily traffic requirement was for two or at most three. So, B5006 had the tender of B5010, while the tender from long-scrapped B5001 was behind either B5012 or B5004, one or the other. Oher 4.4.0s and other tender engines were the same. C1101 had connecting rods stamped with the number of a different C11.

It was the same here! talk about Trigger's Brush..... hardly a thing on 186 today, if indeed, literally ANYTHING at all, is original from 1879.

[Galteemore]

Indeed, JHB. Takes more than a numberplate to truly identify a loco! As for the Moguls, Dev probably put a clause in the 1937 constitution calling for the removal of Saxon smokebox doors...

[Ironroad]

19 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Had a look through the books and read the narrative on the moguls in Clements McMahon. As we thought, no 1950s pics show an original door. The magisterial duo just mentioned imply that doors were replaced on a rolling basis in the 30s. 

Thank you much appreciated

[Midland Man]

10 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The RPSI's 184 and 186 have numerous bits with the numbers of other engine stamped on them

Is 186s tender not its originals and what engine is it from.