A few items from Malahide

[jhb171achill]

Had these out today to show someone...

Two BCDR locos (livery note; this is actual BCDR green - No. 30’s Isle of Man-esque green in Cultra is WAAY too light!

The MGWR tender has, I am sure, a matching loco somewhere; thus far it maintains its secrecy.

The six-wheelers are the excellent SSM kits.

The very nice Donegal carriages and C & L brake compo No. 6L are very nice alphagraphix kits by the look of them. These were made up by Des McGlynn.

All items shown here, MGWR tank loco included, were made in the 1990s / 2001 for the Malahide Castle layout, rather than by Fry - with the exception of the two BCDR locos. Fry made them.

[jhb171achill]

I thought this might interest people. This is how the SSM six-wheelers are articulated underneath. 

There are four of these in Malahide - two each in CIE and GSR liveries. They run very well.

[jhb171achill]

The Lartigue stuff. 

This is the only Fry Irish stuff not yet on display, as there isn’t a suitable cabinet.

One will be ordered.

[jhb171achill]

As readers will know, the items which ran in Malahide Castle weren’t made by Fry, but by up to seven other modellers.

Here are a few out of the last box to be listed today....

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by jhb171achill

[minister_for_hardship]

The Midland tank looks rather sad for something constructed so recently.

Was the L & B model intended to run or be static?

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

The Midland tank looks rather sad for something constructed so recently.

Was the L & B model intended to run or be static?

The Midland tank engine was "weathered" for the Castle layout, as were some other items. A decent repaint would actually make a nice job of it!

As far as I can see, the L & B thing was only ever meant as a static exhibit. The loco appears to be attached to the track, and it would seem the whole train was just intended as a static display.

[Noel]

On 2/29/2020 at 8:08 PM, jhb171achill said:

I thought this might interest people. This is how the SSM six-wheelers are articulated underneath. 

There are four of these in Malahide - two each in CIE and GSR liveries. They run very well.

 

Clever yet so simple

[Georgeconna]

That Link is asking me for Money for some code it to Work Noel. Not sure if that is correct or not!

[David Holman]

Lovely stuff. Thanks JB.

[brianmcs]

great photos JHB .

The Lartigue is important.

In general , is it reasonable to assume Fry's models are accurate and could be relied on in the absence of drawings and photos of older trains , which he may have seen first hand ?

[minister_for_hardship]

49 minutes ago, brianmcs said:

great photos JHB .

The Lartigue is important.

In general , is it reasonable to assume Fry's models are accurate and could be relied on in the absence of drawings and photos of older trains , which he may have seen first hand ?

The original drawings of those L & B locos are still extant as far as I know. Some older Irish locos one would go on basic dimensions and line drawings, photos and educated guesswork to fill in the blanks.

[WRENNEIRE]

JB

The BAT and the all the 4 wheel container wagons are McGowan models, there are still a few kits knocking around

I helped clear out Ciaran McGowans home some years back and the workshop still had loads of kit parts for the BAT among many other bits

Never dawned on me to take any pics, DOH!

Any visitors to the shop will remember this:

 

[Galteemore]

I think the Bat kits may have gone to Perfect Miniatures in Suffolk (formerly trading as ‘Chuffs’). He was advertising them till quite recently - he’s cleared the business now and shut down. Kicking myself I didn’t buy one when I saw them listed but wasn’t modelling Ireland at the time. I did clear up some of his book stock including a picture album of the GSR and the Clements/McMahon loco book .

Edited March 2, 2020 by Galteemore

[murrayec]

I'm building one of the 'Bat' Kits from that clean-up, it's just on a stad at the moment as I have several projects on the go- to many!

Eoin

[Garfield]

I'm curious as to how the kits came to be named after one of the locomotives, rather than the class designation (MGWR E/GSR J26). Without a doubt these are my favourite Irish tank locomotives - beautiful wee things.

 

[Galteemore]

Might be an MGWR thing - when I bought this Alphagraphix kit  it was billed as an ‘Elf’ rather than Class 3....’Titania’ was the most dignified name on the etch fret.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

12 hours ago, brianmcs said:

great photos JHB .

The Lartigue is important.

In general , is it reasonable to assume Fry's models are accurate and could be relied on in the absence of drawings and photos of older trains , which he may have seen first hand ?

Very much so, Brian.

His attention to detail, given the equipment available at the time, was exceptional.

For my own personal interests, detsiled examination of livery details has yielded much important information too; looking close up at the lining he did - all by hand - and the extremely intricate shaded numerals and lettering on things, is quite remarkable.

He had unparalleled access to drawings, as he worked in Inchicore when my grandfather was there in the loco drawing office, so they knew each other. Without boring everyone with the details, he almost certainly got several of his mounted crests, plus at the very least the Drumm trains and Bredin coach drawings, ftom my grandfather, and he knew many other prominent modellers of the day like the late Sam Carse and Drew Donaldson. He’s bound to have known Bob Clements too, as his daughter is aware of the name.

He built two models for Drew which got some reason remained in his collection and are now on show. They are a 500 class and the eight-coupled shunted No. 900. Drew famously detested the GSR grey livery and insisted that whether they ever carried it or not, all his models bar a few had to be in lines CIE green. And thus it was, bar a very few. One (now in Cultra) is in MGWR green and a couple are in the GSR lined green, which real life was ONLY used on the three 800 class. 

Naturally he knew many of the “old guard” in the IRRS like the Murrays and so on.

He also knew James Boyd, the famous railway authorities. Boyd refers to a chance encounter between the two at Skibbereen in his last book... best to read that one yourself!

In terms of drawings, once the Drumm train goes on display, the eagle-eyed will see that the cab ends are different from real life. This is not due to an inaccuracy in his modelling, nor an incorrect anything; it is due to the fact that the train AS BUILT differed from the drawings my grandfather had done - and Fry built his model off-plan!! Other than that, to answer your initial question, as far as I can see (and I stand to be corrected) the dimensions and details of the models are spot on. 

Naturally, being me, I can’t help highlighting - purely for the information of modellers who may someday want to know - the very  few livery variations.

GNR “S” class 4.4.0 No. 170 is too dark a blue, and several slight errors on a couple of the Dublin trams have been identified by a gentleman who assisted me very greatly with tram info, as he is an absolute “go-to” authority on Dublin trams.

His GSR loco liveries have a couple of variations too from the real thing.

But this is really serious rivet-counting stuff - overall a truly magnificent collection, now available for many future generations to enjoy and be educated by - which is precisely what Fry wanted.

[jhb171achill]

The full Lartigue train on its section of trestle track, as it will displayed once I find space for it.

Now, in the immortal words of the Amurrikan tourist: “I gotta question for you”:

Does anyone know if this set had previously been mounted on this small section of track when on display in the castle?

One of my learned colleagues in the Record Society told me that he thought that this whole train was actually operational on Fry’s attic railway. Is anyone here able to confirm or deny this?

[jhb171achill]

In the mid or late 1950s, for a very brief period, CIE painted at least two standard “H” vans green to match passenger stock.

One was based in Cork, one in Tralee. They were attached to the back of the AEC set doing the Cork-Tralee and Tralee-Cork trains which carried mailbags.

This isn’t a “Fry” model, but one of the “Castle” models made by one of the “Castle modellers”; Messrs. Connaughton, Tighe, Magowan, McGlynn and others.

For those who knew some of these good folks, there are several models of this era with the initials “A I M” on them. Does anyone know who this was? Maybe one of the Magowans? Any information gratefully received.

[jhb171achill]

A few more of the “Castle” models.

Wagons galore!

CIE “H” vans, and cattle wagons of both GNR and CIE provenance.

[brianmcs]

I remember seeing it on the track in the glass case in the castle and asking myself did it , could it ,actually run ?

At the time I was reading some of the little information that exists about Lartigue himself. 

 

[jhb171achill]

Hopefully I’ll put it in one of the cases in the next few days. The Drumm train also has to be included. I’m just awaiting the labels for them.

[jhb171achill]

Time for a bus replacement service. Take yer pick; we all remember the trains in Malahide Castle, but there were loads and loads of amazing road vehicles too.

[jhb171achill]

Many of the ads on both Fry’s models and the 1990s models built for the castle are hand painted. There are several GNR buses - this caught my eye, in terms of advertisements too.....

Capstan - absolutely not!

Bushmills - bring it ON!!

Scotch..... SCOTCH!!! Waaaaaaaaa. Nooo way....

[minister_for_hardship]

Rather oddly, Cork buses were plastered with Guinness ads, but their Dublin counterparts didn't seem to carry any Guinness advertising back in the day.

[jhb171achill]

In answer to a request from one of us for a closer look at Fry’s Listowel & Ballybunion model, here it is.

The cobweb among the loco cylinders and wheels is very much overscale, as it is on the scale of 12ins to the foot.......

The section of track is not original (as in Churchtown attic) but was from the “Castle” layout. The track is thus almost certainly the work of Tommy Tighe.

[jhb171achill]

On 3/5/2020 at 6:30 PM, minister_for_hardship said:

Rather oddly, Cork buses were plastered with Guinness ads, but their Dublin counterparts didn't seem to carry any Guinness advertising back in the day.

Maybe Guinness‘s didn’t want the jackeens to know that they were selling some of it to the culchies!

[WaYSidE]

great photos, thanks,

your photos captured the craft of modelling, back in the days before laser and internet,  how did ye manage at all? i take me hat off to those who went before, i have seen some criticism from the laser squad of how 'un-prototype'  some old models seem.  In this new age, where exactness wins over craft,  its clear each model in you photos has a charm of its own and tells a story. Something many of my new model cannot do, maybe if I ever get to weather my newbees, that may change.  The craft of toy making is as highly skilled as any. Some of the models above both show toy and modeller all in one, simply charming, once again thanks, I loved this page.

[jhb171achill]

I couldn’t agree with you more, Wayside. 

The people who crafted models with this level of accuracy, imagination, creativity and ingenuity are gone now; their equivalents exist, but are few in number.

We live in a different world - such is life.

If that sounds retrospective or vaguely negative, or dismissive of what has followed , it certainly is not intended as such.

Today we are lucky to have people brave enough to dip their toes in the commercial world of mass production. Those few are reading this.

And nobody here should be under any illusion; you don’t get rich by manufacturing Irish models, even if you order 20,0000 of them from a factory which pays $1 a year for nine-day-week work, seventeen months a year.....

Good for you! You know who you are.

[David Holman]

There have been various articles and threads recently over the craft v off the shelf theme. Even in the late 1980s, when I built my first layout, there was little of real quality in terms of RTR, while the range of products was narrow too.

 On top of that, apart from a few card and plastic kits, there were few buildings on offer, so you pretty much had to make your own. These days, it is possible to build a complete layout, apart from scenic ground cover 'straight out of a box'. Buy it, plant it. Ok, for those interested in just playing trains, or even serious operation, this is a fine short cut to having a decent background for your trains to run in, because there are some very nice models out there. 

 However, many of those buildings ain't cheap, whereas a scratch built one will cost a few pounds at most. Starting with buildings soon leads you to realise that making other things is just as easy and so the skill levels build up. Yes it takes time, but you also build up a useful range of tools that then come in handy for other modelling projects.

 If I am starting to sound like a grumpy old git, well my wife says I have been since I was thirty, but expectations now seem to be for perfection out of the box, with no effort required other that opening it. A while ago, I was talking to a trader about this and he showed me a nice model of a greenhouse. A customer had earlier rejected it because 'it had no plants in it'. He used it to illustrate the way his sales were going.

 There again, I guess we must remember that much of the Fry collection was cheque book modelling too. It's a hobby and therefore to be enjoyed in any way we want. I'm happy making things and rarely play trains away from exhibitions, others like operation, electronics, 3D printing etc. Nobody is wrong as long as they enjoy it, it's what makes our hobby so great.

[WRENNEIRE]

"There again, I guess we must remember that much of the Fry collection was cheque book modelling too. ???"

Dont know where you got that idea man, all of Frys models were hand built. I heard stories of white metal being melted in pots while the spuds were on the cooker

And Mrs Fry cast most of the wheels

[PorkyP]

That's an admirable quality in a wife, the ability to cast some metal components for you whilst the soda bread is in the oven....

[jhb171achill]

I’ll be in there at some stage this afternoon if anyone wants a close-up pic of any particular thing, ping me....

[Galteemore]

Any pics of GSWR locos please !

[Galteemore]

57 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

"There again, I guess we must remember that much of the Fry collection was cheque book modelling too. ???"

Dont know where you got that idea man, all of Frys models were hand built. I heard stories of white metal being melted in pots while the spuds were on the cooker

And Mrs Fry cast most of the wheels

I think the reference was to the Fry collection in its most generic sense - i.e. including the stuff that was built professionally for the Castle layout...