Irish Railway Model Enthusiasts - facebook page

[BosKonay]

Not only economies of scale but Hornby sell those train sets at a loss to generate market

[Westcorkrailway]

10 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Any FB pages to promote the Irish aspects of the hobby are good as long as they look the part and preferably encourage people who come across them to sign up here.

I would love to know how many new or returning Irish modellers just grab the first GB outline yoke on the shelves and go from there. I almost only found out by accident that Irish stuff even existed. I was very close to modelling US outline.

I'd have really kicked myself if I hadn't dug a bit deeper.

 

Same. I was surfing the web one day and found that somone had made a kit of the bandon tank and a model of a C class. If i hadn't found it by now i would have a fleet of british 0-6-0 s!

[Bumble_Bee]

15 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Not only economies of scale but Hornby sell those train sets at a loss to generate market

Yeah, it would be technically possible to do an Irish train set from hornby, their railroad Jinty for example easily repainted into NCC or UTA livery, with some wagons/vans for a 'York road' look. 

I doubt they would though. 

 

And same here folks, so far my Irish rolling stock consists of a lot of repainted Dapol wagons and some old hornby and lima coaches. I have the early 2000's Hornby 040 with the flying snail livery, but the upcoming A Class will by my first actual representation of a REAL irish prototype  

(Hopefully followed in 2046 by an NCC mogul to coincide with the completion of the real one )

[murphaph]

21 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

So true. I had already started investing in GWR outline when I discovered by chance that some Irish stuff existed (albeit very little at that time) but that was a game changer. The existence of Irish stuff isn't all that obvious, you have to know about it.

It's not at all obvious to returnees or newcomers. This may sound crazy to the more established members here, but I'd never heard of IRM this time last year. I found this forum through the shop which I found through googling after finding a few IRM items on the Mark's Models website.

[BosKonay]

9 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It's not at all obvious to returnees or newcomers. This may sound crazy to the more established members here, but I'd never heard of IRM this time last year. I found this forum through the shop which I found through googling after finding a few IRM items on the Mark's Models website.

Unless you look for it how would you be aware

Not being flippant but railway modeling is a niche hobby. Irish railway modeling is a niche within a niche. I only rediscovered Irish outline myself by accident about 10-11 years ago now. 
 

The scale of the niche means only cottage industry or one man bands can be supported unless a larger firm subsidize Irish models with, for example, UK models where the market is many many many times larger (and even then still a niche hobby)

The best way to grow the hobby is through availability of models. For 99% of us, we are here because Paddy Murphy made that brave leap. 

[Noel]

8 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It's not at all obvious to returnees or newcomers. This may sound crazy to the more established members here, but I'd never heard of IRM this time last year. I found this forum through the shop which I found through googling after finding a few IRM items on the Mark's Models website.

I like many started BM (before Murphy models arrived) so British outline train sets were the only show in town, GWR and LMS steam era being my favourites of the big four. Never really got into BR modern era diesel Blue/Grey. Had collected a few CIE Irish models in the 1970s - Lima & Hornby BR models in CIE livery but nothing prototypical. Started the layout with GWR and LMS in mind, but designed the terminus to be a pseudo Kingsbridge, then a chance visit to Malahide Castle in 2007 changed everything. At the Fry layout visitor centre was a souvenir shop and on sale were some Bachmann/MM 141 locos. I nearly fell over with excitement that there existed a fine scale model of a real CIE loco. I bought 182 on the spot, brought it home, popped it on the layout (which hadn't been run for 15 years) and was staggered by what a precision runner MM 182 was, far superior to the Hornby and Lima junk around at that time. It was like a swiss watch. I'd been out of the hobby for nearly 20 years, but MM 182 flicked a switch in me. My only contact with the outside world had been Railway Modeller magazine even during the dormant years. That single loco awakened me to the possibility of one day having a layout populated by models of the trains I grew up watching and travelling on. Train sets got me started, and the classic train set had an engine and 3 or 4 varied goods wagons and a brake van, or two passenger coaches. Train sets were the ultimate starter in the hobby as they came with everything you needed including an oval of track and a power transformer. Scenery was made up using Beano hardback annuals for platforms, socks, cardboard boxes with holes cut for tunnel mouths, and shoe boxes for buildings with windows drawn in markers or pencils. I wonder if an ICR train set would offer the same playability for kids today who see trains. Most trains are seen on TV rather than in real life and period dramas tend to show the classic 1930-1950s BR steam era locos and rolling stock, maroon BR exLMS coaches and 2 axle goods wagons in mixed formations, hence the typical hornby or Lima train sets of same, later bachmann who were the first to steer up market for modellers rather than the Christmas toy market that was once dominated by transits. Now its iPads, X-Boxes, Playstation and smartphones dancing LCD screens (ie no physical playability, no imagination, no tactile feel, no construction skills). No wonder the world will have a shortage of engineers in 20 years time. Assembling toy train set track and the geometry was very much part of the toy train hobby for youngsters starting off. A train set which was a seriously big ticket Christmas or birthday present was augmented by saved pocket money that enabled extra track to be bought over time and added. All the is gone. The toy market seemed a sunset market until thomas came along and extended its life for an extra while, but that seems to have worn off. Most of todays modellers were probably yesterdays kids connecting track on a bedroom carpet running a hornby mixed goods transit. Looking at the average age profile attending exhibitions one wonders what size the market will be in 20 years time, or how new younger modeller get attracted into the hobby. Model shops or toy shops that carried model railways was in the general publics face, but there are no retail model shops on high streets anymore. So where is the exposure coming from for new blood? I dunno

[jhb171achill]

While it's not my thing at all, I do feel that an ICR set would be potentially successful, especially if it was only produced to "2-ft rule" standard.

Maybe out of curiosity, one of our IRM folks could answer this question; does the superbly high standard of detail on IRM or MM products contribute much to the finished per-item cost? Would a rough-an'-ready ICR, maybe a re-liveried British or mainland European tube on wheels of some sort, end up retailing for a similar price, when manufacturing, design and transport had obviously been covered by the producer, or would it be not much cheaper than a high-end model?

As some here will know, I recently moved house. My former neighbour had an 8-year-old boy, who sees a train as a DART (and if he lived in the Land of Rural Culchies, it would be an ICR). He, for one, is a little guy who would be interested in a train set of something he knew. A British HST, Flying Scotsman, or Dutch EMU wouldn't cut it for him. This is the sort of young gentleman we need for the future.

Right now, he'd need something he recognises to play with.

When I was about 5, I was given a circle of old tinplate 0 gauge track with three trucks which were wooden blocks painted by Senior to look like a diesel shunter and wagons, on old "scrap" 0 gauge four wheeled chassis. For a child that age, nothing could break. It was a push-along thing - in terms of developing an interest in railways in general with me, it worked...........

And outside - in the far distance - if the wind was blowing the right way, I could hear the steam-hauled up goods puffing along the GN main line late at night...........

Edited March 12, 2021 by jhb171achill

[BosKonay]

Realistically ’doing it right’ is not more expensive enough to do it wrong. 

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Realistically ’doing it right’ is not more expensive enough to do it wrong. 

That's what interested me.

Thus, for (say) an ICR which could withstand being dropped on the floor, or stood on by the toddler, would cost almost as much as a high-end model? If so, that would almost certainly settle the case against it as a commercial proposition, because you'd hardly let a small person near anything which cost that sort of cash.............

If some sort of, say, 3-car ICR was possible to produce, with an oval of track and a controller, for the sort of money a few computer games cost, that's the only way it could work. It's been suggested here before now that such a thing isn't financially viable for our sort of market.....

[Bumble_Bee]

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

While it's not my thing at all, I do feel that an ICR set would be potentially successful, especially if it was only produced to "2-ft rule" standard.

Maybe out of curiosity, one of our IRM folks could answer this question; does the superbly high standard of detail on IRM or MM products contribute much to the finished per-item cost? Would a rough-an'-ready ICR, maybe a re-liveried British or mainland European tube on wheels of some sort, end up retailing for a similar price, when manufacturing, design and transport had obviously been covered by the producer, or would it be not much cheaper than a high-end model?

As some here will know, I recently moved house. My former neighbour had an 8-year-old boy, who sees a train as a DART (and if he lived in the Land of Rural Culchies, it would be an ICR). He, for one, is a little guy who would be interested in a train set of something he knew. A British HST, Flying Scotsman, or Dutch EMU wouldn't cut it for him. This is the sort of young gentleman we need for the future.

Right now, he'd need something he recognises to play with.

When I was about 5, I was given a circle of old tinplate 0 gauge track with three trucks which were wooden blocks painted by Senior to look like a diesel shunter and wagons, on old "scrap" 0 gauge four wheeled chassis. For a child that age, nothing could break. It was a push-along thing - in terms of developing an interest in railways in general with me, it worked...........

And outside - in the far distance - if the wind was blowing the right way, I could hear the steam-hauled up goods puffing along the GN main line late at night...........

I feel like Hornby etc are only able to do their railroad stock because it already existed from old moulds or previous companies etc. 

I agree that tooling up a basic loco wouldnt make the economic sense, if you are going to make a completely new mould then might as well go for it. 

I wonder what the potential for a 'half retool' would be economically. For example re-jigging the LMS 4P tank mould to make a NCC Jeep. 

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, Bumble_Bee said:

 

I wonder what the potential for a 'half retool' would be economically. For example re-jigging the LMS 4P tank mould to make a NCC Jeep. 

It's a bit like the British "Hymek" done up in a faux-CIE livery about thirty years ago - in an example like you mention, probably just re-livery the existing thing.

[Westcorkrailway]

5 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

That's what interested me.

Thus, for (say) an ICR which could withstand being dropped on the floor, or stood on by the toddler, would cost almost as much as a high-end model? If so, that would almost certainly settle the case against it as a commercial proposition, because you'd hardly let a small person near anything which cost that sort of cash.............

If some sort of, say, 3-car ICR was possible to produce, with an oval of track and a controller, for the sort of money a few computer games cost, that's the only way it could work. It's been suggested here before now that such a thing isn't financially viable for our sort of market.....

It would have to be marketed wayyyy differently to models have before. if this were to happen and the target demographic were to be to get new blood into irish modeling. Then unironically smyths and argos and all these sort of places would need to be also retailers. I remember the first time i realised i could buy a realistic train set that was not my thomas the tank engine layout was a virgin pendelino and the eurostar in the argos catalogue...and I ended up buying one and that was when I was about 7. The key to appealing to that audience is advertise it as high speed (yep). The fact they might recodnise the train may also help in this case.

[Bumble_Bee]

18 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

It's a bit like the British "Hymek" done up in a faux-CIE livery about thirty years ago - in an example like you mention, probably just re-livery the existing thing.

Yeah, although to be fair the hymek was way too far from being accurate haha.

At least something like an NCC jeep, jinty or whippet would pass a 'two foot test' as they say. 

[ShaneC]

Going way off topic here but I wonder could <€100 be achieved with a high-volume N-scale model with zero seperately fitted detail - all moulded, moudled chasis, 3-pole motor etc.

The way I see it, home ownership continues to drop, more people are renting apartments and rents in much of the country make owning an extra bedroom a rare feat. With N-scale a decent layout can fit on a standard 160x80cm desk, I firmly believe we'll see more under 30s getting into the hobby trend away from OO (or 21mm) in favour of N.

[Bumble_Bee]

6 minutes ago, ShaneC said:

Going way off topic here but I wonder could <€100 be achieved with a high-volume N-scale model with zero seperately fitted detail - all moulded, moudled chasis, 3-pole motor etc.

The way I see it, home ownership continues to drop, more people are renting apartments and rents in much of the country make owning an extra bedroom a rare feat. With N-scale a decent layout can fit on a standard 160x80cm desk, I firmly believe we'll see more under 30s getting into the hobby trend away from OO (or 21mm) in favour of N.

Thats a good point. I would love to model in N gauge but considering the prices are the same or more expensive than 00, i couldnt justify it haha

[Westcorkrailway]

16 minutes ago, Bumble_Bee said:

Thats a good point. I would love to model in N gauge but considering the prices are the same or more expensive than 00, i couldnt justify it haha

To be fair 00 guage is just more practical as thats the standered gauge for modeling really. Most people on this forum that would be interested in an ICR would want it 00 gauge first and formost. Not to mention that if a kid wanted to expand his layout (say he wants a 201 class as they are also still in use in the mainline) there isint irish N gauge stuff to expand 

[Ironroad]

6 hours ago, BosKonay said:

Unless you look for it how would you be aware

The best way to grow the hobby is through availability of models. For 99% of us, we are here because Paddy Murphy made that brave leap. 

Both sentences are a bit like asking which came first "the chicken or the egg". I had no reason to suspect the existence of Irish Models so wasn't actively looking for them.  I was at a loose end at close of the day on a business trip and strolling around a big hobby box store in Wisconsin and was dumbfounded at the sight of a green Irish Train set, that's what got me looking.

The whole point of the discussion here is about a means of raising awareness and interest in modeling Irish Railways and measuring demand for specific items.  So it seems to me the Facebook page launched by Bumble_Bee may contribute at least a little to this. There is an enormous Irish diaspora and I'm sure that at least a small percentage of that group may have an interest in modelling railways, but the probability is that very few know of MM or IRM. Something more than stumbling over things or word of mouth is needed. I'm not a marketing expert so I don't know the answer.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Ironroad

[murphaph]

The Irish diaspora in North America especially seems like it might be a market for Irish railway stuff, particularly given the "GM connection". Something like ten times the population of Ireland consider themselves Irish American. Model railroading in North America is, I suspect even in percentage terms, far more popular a hobby than model railways are in Ireland.

If I was hoping to attract more people into our small corner of the hobby I'd be looking there. Bachmann clearly thought there was merit in the idea when it brought out that trainset for the US market.

I watch too many American "layout tour" videos for my own good. Often the guy has a basement empire of American prototype but up on the walls might have a collection of foreign stuff on display. Nobody needs to be convinced to go "all in" for it to make a difference.

So bumble Bee I humbly or should I say bumbly suggest that you use your FB page to target North America

[Galteemore]

Given that Joe Biden is the first Irish-American president for a while, and a known railroad fan, I can just see an IRM presentation of a 121 on the White House lawn...would make a nice news item in Model Railroader....

Edited March 13, 2021 by Galteemore

[Noel]

19 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Given that Joe Biden is the first Irish-American president for a while, and a known railroad fan, I can just see an IRM presentation of a 121 on the White House lawn...would make a nice news item in Model Railroader....

Yea make CIE great again  MCGA    

[Mayner]

This is an increasingly interesting thread living outside of Ireland the most striking thing is the absence of an umbrella group to promote Irish Railway Modelling like the NMRA in the United States, The New Zealand Model Railway Guild or the various special interest societies found in most countries.

The New Zealand Guild has a website, publishes a high quality quarterly magazine with modelling and prototype articles and stages a bi-annual Convention that rotates between the major centres https://www.nzmrg.org.nz/index.html. There is no New Zealand equivalent of Murphy Models so the guild focuses on modelling which has contributed to a high overall standard of modelling.

A Facebook Page focusing on promoting Irish Modelling that contains information on the prototype, examples of Irish railway modelling and available rtr models and kits would probably do more to promote interest in Irish Railway modelling as opposed to a narrow focus on rtr models.

Producing a cheap basic Irish train set is not necessarily the most effective may of stimulating interest in modelling among children and teenagers who generally are move creative and inventive than adults.

The younger members on this group like Sean, Midland Man and West Cork Railway tend to use a rtr model or a kit as a starting point who can developed into competent modeller's given support and encouragement Nelson Jackson's teenage BCDR and NCC modelling that appeared on this group and RM Web is an excellent example.

I am not convinced about an untapped market for Irish models within the Irish Diaspora, at the time Bachmann were able to leverage on the Murphy Models commissions to produce the "Irish Train Set".

Its unlikely a major manufacturer would tool up for a basic DART or Intercity Train, though Tomix or Chinese manufacturer would probably be willing to produce an existing HO or N model in DART or Intercity colours if you commit to the minimum order quantity.

As Stephen indicated Irish Railway modelling is a niche within a niche market that can only support one man bands or larger businesses that are prepared to subsidize their Irish models from the more profitable high volume side of the business.

 

[murphaph]

The comparison with NZ is interesting. Would you say the hobby is actually more popular there or just better organised John?

Thinking about that for a minute I wonder would Bumble bee's efforts not perhaps be better spent (or differently spent to put it more diplomatically) by trying to increase the profile of the MRSI on social media?

http://www.modelrailways.ie/

 

[Noel]

45 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The comparison with NZ is interesting. Would you say the hobby is actually more popular there or just better organised John?

Thinking about that for a minute I wonder would Bumble bee's efforts not perhaps be better spent (or differently spent to put it more diplomatically) by trying to increase the profile of the MRSI on social media?

http://www.modelrailways.ie/

 

Or also SDMRC who have their own excellent purpose built club house facility. The knub is this country never really had the scale per capita of either a history of railway modelling nor preservation railways unlike the UK. Hence there is only one single model shop in the entire country, and only three clubs MRSI, SDMRC and WMRC whereas the UK has thousands of clubs. Stephen is quite right in that it is a niche within a niche here of a small market. We are extraordinarily fortunate that Paddy Murphy started the ball rolling acting as the catalyst for the current renaissance in Irish Modelling and even indirectly the inspiration behind the formation of IRM who are now running along side him, and also forging ahead in the UK market making big waves and changing the game. Where next? The vast USA market?  

[Mayner]

54 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The comparison with NZ is interesting. Would you say the hobby is actually more popular there or just better organised John?

Thinking about that for a minute I wonder would Bumble bee's efforts not perhaps be better spent (or differently spent to put it more diplomatically) by trying to increase the profile of the MRSI on social media?

http://www.modelrailways.ie/

 

Possibly more popular than in Ireland with interest in American and British outline predominating, the AMRA represents American Model Railroaders organises its own conventions and meets independent of the NMRA https://www.nzmrg.org.nz/index.html.

With the traditional Kiwi 1/4 acre section, modern houses with double garages and lifestyle blocks there are a lot of permanent 'Basement Empire" style layouts in garages and sheds. 

Conventions tended to be crowded, although there is no NZR rtr there is a comprehensive range of kits in 3 scales that run on O,HO and N Gauge track being narrow gauge Kiwi modellers use an established commercial track gauge and built the models to a larger scale.

The limited market, odd scale and unique equipment and Kiwi self reliance limits the potential market for rtr , as NZR equipment would look very odd and probably fold the loading gauge running alongside American, Australian, British or Continental equipment.

The MRSI was the first model railway club in Dublin in much the same manner as the Ulster Model Railway Club in Belfast and the Model Railway Club in London.

The Irish clubs tend to have good working relationships and support each others exhibitions but haven't gotten to the stage of an all Ireland body like the IRFU

Noel's comments on preserved railways is interesting NZ has a similar population to Ireland, no large manufacturing base preserved railways and local history museums  in most regions the majority volunteer based sustained on donations some run once a month or once every other month but they still get bye.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Mayner

[Bumble_Bee]

Interesting to mention American modellers. 

Do you think that they would prefer H0 scaled stuff (therefore requiring full retools of existing models etc) or do you think they would just get the 00? 

In a way, running a 00 loco on an H0 scaled layout would be kinda close to fixing the scale on the gauging issue?

Perhaps modellers would be tempted to make full 00 layouts instead of H0 if they were interested enough. 

Then again, even if every amercian-irish modeller bought a single irish model as a 'wall hanger' for display, that would still be a LOT of sales! 

I think thats why I feel so much like a 'celebrity' loco like Merlin or Meabh would sell so well, as they are perhaps the Irish equivalent in terms of popularity as Flying Scotsman or Mallard. 

That said, i don't know the popularity of those locos outside of Ireland so maybe they are not as well known as i am assuming

Interesting to mention American modellers. 

Do you think that they would prefer H0 scaled stuff (therefore requiring full retools of existing models etc) or do you think they would just get the 00? 

In a way, running a 00 loco on an H0 scaled layout would be kinda close to fixing the scale on the gauging issue?

Perhaps modellers would be tempted to make full 00 layouts instead of H0 if they were interested enough. 

Then again, even if every amercian-irish modeller bought a single irish model as a 'wall hanger' for display, that would still be a LOT of sales! 

I think thats why I feel so much like a 'celebrity' loco like Merlin or Meabh would sell so well, as they are perhaps the Irish equivalent in terms of popularity as Flying Scotsman or Mallard. 

That said, i don't know the popularity of those locos outside of Ireland so maybe they are not as well known as i am assuming.

Also, bringing it back to Facebook for a moment, you can actually make targetted adverts with a page, and ask Facebook to show them to a specific audience, so i can for example make a post aimed at local young people to maybe catch the interest and get them involved, OR as suggested above, target the US or North America (because I know there are a lot of Irish Canadians too) 

[murphaph]

There's no point in worrying about "marketing" locos that don't exist to North American modellers. That would just lead to frustration and abandonment of the idea by them. There is no need to "lobby" IRM or MM to create a particular model either. They know well enough their business.

The trick would be to see if posts targeted at North America could get a percentage of them interested in what is currently available.

Deviating from 00 to H0 for the American market is a complete non-starter. The established Irish and UK market will remain the heart of any expanded market and for better or worse for historical reasons we're stuck with 00 now. I doubt anyone here would buy a H0 scale Irish model now. That ship sailed 20 years ago and I wouldn't criticise the decision to stay 00 back then either. It was risky enough in 00.

 

[Warbonnet]

You guys would be surprised just how much we export to America, Canada, Australia and even continental Europe. Also remember that not everyone who is into model trains publishes their layout or collections on the internet. Our customers are very much a silent majority, who do not do forums, FB etc. They just buy and run or collect. 

Regarding N gauge. The logic of smaller houses etc seems sound, but if you look across the UK N gauge market has stagnated or even shrunk (a mainstream retailer declared to us that N gauge is DEAD! in a meeting. I wouldnt go that far but their sales figures did show stagnation and regression) and it is O gauge that has grown massively in the last 10 years or so. Sometimes logic goes out the window!

Cheers,

Fran

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

There's no point in worrying about "marketing" locos that don't exist to North American modellers. That would just lead to frustration and abandonment of the idea by them. There is no need to "lobby" IRM or MM to create a particular model either. They know well enough their business.

The trick would be to see if posts targeted at North America could get a percentage of them interested in what is currently available.

Deviating from 00 to H0 for the American market is a complete non-starter. The established Irish and UK market will remain the heart of any expanded market and for better or worse for historical reasons we're stuck with 00 now. I doubt anyone here would buy a H0 scale Irish model now. That ship sailed 20 years ago and I wouldn't criticise the decision to stay 00 back then either. It was risky enough in 00.

 

Yeah, imagine buying HO Gauge Lima coaches to repaint and haul with those locos. Oh, wait...

Being serious though, HO Gauge track is the same as OO Gauge, so I can't imagine any benefits in re-tooling anything.

 

1 minute ago, Warbonnet said:

You guys would be surprised just how much we export to America, Canada, Australia and even continental Europe. Also remember that not everyone who is into model trains publishes their layout or collections on the internet. Our customers are very much a silent majority, who do not do forums, FB etc. They just buy and run or collect. 

Regarding N gauge. The logic of smaller houses etc seems sound, but if you look across the UK N gauge market has stagnated or even shrunk (a mainstream retailer declared to us that N gauge is DEAD! in a meeting. I wouldnt go that far but their sales figures did show stagnation and regression) and it is O gauge that has grown massively in the last 10 years or so. Sometimes logic goes out the window!

Cheers,

Fran

So, when are you guys releasing the O Gauge 141's?

[Bumble_Bee]

I find it interesting that O gauge has grown too, perhaps because the RTR options for that have grown significantly over the last number of years. 

Perhaps instead of having full layouts, people like to buy them to display since they are a lot larger. 

For example I was considering getting the upcoming UTA jinty from Dapol, purely for display because I barely have room for my 00 layout let alone even have a 'back and forth' 0 gauge layout haha.

Yeah the history of the whole 00/H0 thing is interesting. Personally i wished that we all agreed on one or the other so that I can run continental stock on my layout without it looking small, but i know that its far too late to even float the idea of converting now.

[murphaph]

10 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

So, when are you guys releasing the O Gauge 141's?

Along with the O gauge B&I ferry no doubt!!

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

Along with the O gauge B&I ferry no doubt!!

Savage, what did Fran say yesterday? If we ask for it now, we'll have it in 2024? Or was I just seeing what I want to see?

[Westcorkrailway]

41 minutes ago, Bumble_Bee said:

I find it interesting that O gauge has grown too, perhaps because the RTR options for that have grown significantly over the last number of years. 

Perhaps instead of having full layouts, people like to buy them to display since they are a lot larger. 

For example I was considering getting the upcoming UTA jinty from Dapol, purely for display because I barely have room for my 00 layout let alone even have a 'back and forth' 0 gauge layout haha.

Yeah the history of the whole 00/H0 thing is interesting. Personally i wished that we all agreed on one or the other so that I can run continental stock on my layout without it looking small, but i know that its far too late to even float the idea of converting now.

When people love a particular engine engine so much. They will want an 0 gauge one as ita the bees knees in detail and size is cool! .....and then as they have an 0 gauge engine they just start buying rolling stock and a layout just because......why not they already have a loco and hey presto....and there you have it. My theory on how 0 gauge is starting to rise 

[Bumble_Bee]

10 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

When people love a particular engine engine so much. They will want an 0 gauge one as ita the bees knees in detail and size is cool! .....and then as they have an 0 gauge engine they just start buying rolling stock and a layout just because......why not they already have a loco and hey presto....and there you have it. My theory on how 0 gauge is starting to rise 

For sure! 

Now I just need someone to make an 0 gauge NCC W class

[Noel]

58 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

You guys would be surprised just how much we export to America, Canada, Australia and even continental Europe. Also remember that not everyone who is into model trains publishes their layout or collections on the internet. Our customers are very much a silent majority, who do not do forums, FB etc. They just buy and run or collect. 

Regarding N gauge. The logic of smaller houses etc seems sound, but if you look across the UK N gauge market has stagnated or even shrunk (a mainstream retailer declared to us that N gauge is DEAD! in a meeting. I wouldnt go that far but their sales figures did show stagnation and regression) and it is O gauge that has grown massively in the last 10 years or so. Sometimes logic goes out the window!

Cheers,

Fran

I'd well believe it having seen the uptake of O gauge by members of WMRC since they built their massive Little Siddington layout.  Many building or buying their on O gauge stock to run on LS, and now building their own compact O gauge layouts for home use (eg shunters yard, diesel depot, etc). I'd be on O gauge myself like a hot rash if I could get my hands on a single fine scale 141 or 181 model. Would only need a 10ft linear shunting layout to have years of operational running fun using RTR wagons from the likes of Dapol resprayed in CIE liveries. No need for coaching stock. A 141 is a beautifully short loco and would suit shunting 2 axle wagons with their 3 link couplings and opening wagon doors. Drool. There'll never be any Irish RTR O gauge stock for obvious economic reasons, but some time I might be able to twist the arm of a master like Eoin to commission a 141 body based on a dapol chassis. Saw a few nice 141s at the last model show I was at in Dublin some years ago.

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

You guys would be surprised just how much we export to America, Canada, Australia and even continental Europe. Also remember that not everyone who is into model trains publishes their layout or collections on the internet. Our customers are very much a silent majority, who do not do forums, FB etc. They just buy and run or collect. 

Regarding N gauge. The logic of smaller houses etc seems sound, but if you look across the UK N gauge market has stagnated or even shrunk (a mainstream retailer declared to us that N gauge is DEAD! in a meeting. I wouldnt go that far but their sales figures did show stagnation and regression) and it is O gauge that has grown massively in the last 10 years or so. Sometimes logic goes out the window!

Cheers,

Fran

Do you export much to Cork (PDRC)?

[Westcorkrailway]

3 hours ago, Mayner said:

This is an increasingly interesting thread living outside of Ireland the most striking thing is the absence of an umbrella group to promote Irish Railway Modelling like the NMRA in the United States, The New Zealand Model Railway Guild or the various special interest societies found in most countries.

The New Zealand Guild has a website, publishes a high quality quarterly magazine with modelling and prototype articles and stages a bi-annual Convention that rotates between the major centres https://www.nzmrg.org.nz/index.html. There is no New Zealand equivalent of Murphy Models so the guild focuses on modelling which has contributed to a high overall standard of modelling.

A Facebook Page focusing on promoting Irish Modelling that contains information on the prototype, examples of Irish railway modelling and available rtr models and kits would probably do more to promote interest in Irish Railway modelling as opposed to a narrow focus on rtr models.

Producing a cheap basic Irish train set is not necessarily the most effective may of stimulating interest in modelling among children and teenagers who generally are move creative and inventive than adults.

The younger members on this group like Sean, Midland Man and West Cork Railway tend to use a rtr model or a kit as a starting point who can developed into competent modeller's given support and encouragement Nelson Jackson's teenage BCDR and NCC modelling that appeared on this group and RM Web is an excellent example.

I am not convinced about an untapped market for Irish models within the Irish Diaspora, at the time Bachmann were able to leverage on the Murphy Models commissions to produce the "Irish Train Set".

Its unlikely a major manufacturer would tool up for a basic DART or Intercity Train, though Tomix or Chinese manufacturer would probably be willing to produce an existing HO or N model in DART or Intercity colours if you commit to the minimum order quantity.

As Stephen indicated Irish Railway modelling is a niche within a niche market that can only support one man bands or larger businesses that are prepared to subsidize their Irish models from the more profitable high volume side of the business.

 

 

The attitude of myself coming into modeling is to start with anything RTR and work from there. My first irish model was the silver fox C class. From there i put silver fox railcars on order as there the 2 big RTR west cork models (unfortunately none of IRM or MM offerings ran on the west cork except for the BnT 141s which only ran in albert quay and aren't readily abailble pre owned and the  A class.....which ran all but twice!) Rolling stock is usually converted dapol wagons with flying snails slapped on the side and given a lick of paint! While silver fox offer flying snail cars 75 pounds a pop is a bit expensive. I only see myself buying one for railcar use. There is an RTR brakevan on the way if course which i look at licking my lips and those 3 wheel coaches.....they look like a decent conversion. Locos that need some converting like my other young west cork modeller include a j26 out of a j72 and a beautiful GSWR no. 34 out of a LNYR 2-4-2. 3D modeling has already given is number 90, i hope more models come abailble this way as its wayyy more accesable then conversions and kits

 

From the kits are abailble from SSM. Like the MGMR j26 and of course the bandon tank. (Which i have but haven't touched and probably wont for years.....and i made the mistake of not buying thre gearbox or wheels ect!) However none if us have nowhere near what is required yet to do brass kits, i have only soldered wires together as of now!

 

Can I also suggest using instagram? My West Cork Railway Colourised page uses both platforms and while Facebook one is more popular, more young people tend to use instagram. A few have tried and failed....the only way it could work is if that instagram page happens to have a stream of pictures if other layouts to post consitantly! (All credited to there respected owners of course) as groups dont really work on instagram. it would have to be a page

Edited March 13, 2021 by Westcorkrailway