Irish Royalty - Park Royal Coach Next For IRM

[jhb171achill]

Rolling stock for branch lines........

To such extent as any survived into the post-steam era, the rolling stock could be anything, hence perfect fodder for a small layout - you can have nothing more than a small terminus-to-fiddle yard set-up, but with an amazing array of stock.

Locos not so much. You're looking at a diet of 141s basically, with a "C" / B201 pre-1975 as well. If you go on into the modern era, like Ballina in the 1990s, you'll get an "A" or an 071 as well. The only time you'd get a 121 is as part of a "pair" in later days.

Rolling stock for passenger trains in the post-steam branch line times:

Either one or two passenger coaches: Partk Royals (either of suburban or main line origin); laminates of a zillion types of variation; an old Bredin; very occasionally a Craven, but they rarely strayed off main lines; or up to maybe 1969/70, an old wooden-bodued coach of GSWR origin - almost certainly a bogie corridor composite. 

Vans - Any type of tin van, either type of BR van, Dundalk "Dutch" van, or one of several variations of converted Bredins to brake gennies. The unique Loughrea coaches 1904 & 1910 too - and one of these was on the Ballina branch for a time too.

With goods, branch line goods trains were mostly covered goods vans of all the myriad of variations. All grey until 1970, but with some brown ones increasingly appearing in the 1970-6 period. Brake vans (obviously essential for ALL loose coupled goods trains) were mostly standard CIE 20-tonners, but Loughrea and Castleisland held on to ancient ex-GSWR 10-ton vans for a long time after such things were extinct elsewhere.

So all in all, plenty of scope, which is what brought many enthusiasts at the time from the Next Door Island; where many branch lines had a two-car railcar and nothing else. Just like a surviving branch line in Ireland (Ballina excluded!) would be today; on a different but related note, I always thought that for those interested in prototypical operation, a mini-West Cork system today would be an excellent exercise, as there would probably be no goods, and all trains would be two-car 26 or 28 class railcars! You'd operate the whole thing with three sets - one for the Banrty main line, another connecting for Skib, and a third connecting for Clon. Add a fourth on a Bandon commuter run, and away ye go!

[Mol_PMB]

One interesting thing that happened in the mid 1970s was an increase in services on many routes. With the completion of the A and C class re-engining projects and the delivery of the air-con Mk2 trains and the BR heating vans, there were more resources available and a new timetable with considerably more, faster trains was introduced. 
It turned out to be a over-optimistic and was dialled back a bit until the 071s turned up. But there was a big increase in passengers travelling, and in the late 70s and early 80s there was a very critical shortage of coaching stock, until the DART and Mk3 stock arrived. 
Short branch line trains were a consequence of this!

[west_clare_wanderer]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Loughrea will feature at a book launch hopefully planned for Saturday 1st November, the 50th anniversary of the last train there. Quite a few rolling stock photos in it, too.

Great. Thanks for the tip off. I'll keep an eye out. 

[west_clare_wanderer]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Rolling stock for branch lines........

To such extent as any survived into the post-steam era, the rolling stock could be anything, hence perfect fodder for a small layout - you can have nothing more than a small terminus-to-fiddle yard set-up, but with an amazing array of stock.

Locos not so much. You're looking at a diet of 141s basically, with a "C" / B201 pre-1975 as well. If you go on into the modern era, like Ballina in the 1990s, you'll get an "A" or an 071 as well. The only time you'd get a 121 is as part of a "pair" in later days.

Rolling stock for passenger trains in the post-steam branch line times:

Either one or two passenger coaches: Partk Royals (either of suburban or main line origin); laminates of a zillion types of variation; an old Bredin; very occasionally a Craven, but they rarely strayed off main lines; or up to maybe 1969/70, an old wooden-bodued coach of GSWR origin - almost certainly a bogie corridor composite. 

Vans - Any type of tin van, either type of BR van, Dundalk "Dutch" van, or one of several variations of converted Bredins to brake gennies. The unique Loughrea coaches 1904 & 1910 too - and one of these was on the Ballina branch for a time too.

With goods, branch line goods trains were mostly covered goods vans of all the myriad of variations. All grey until 1970, but with some brown ones increasingly appearing in the 1970-6 period. Brake vans (obviously essential for ALL loose coupled goods trains) were mostly standard CIE 20-tonners, but Loughrea and Castleisland held on to ancient ex-GSWR 10-ton vans for a long time after such things were extinct elsewhere.

So all in all, plenty of scope, which is what brought many enthusiasts at the time from the Next Door Island; where many branch lines had a two-car railcar and nothing else. Just like a surviving branch line in Ireland (Ballina excluded!) would be today; on a different but related note, I always thought that for those interested in prototypical operation, a mini-West Cork system today would be an excellent exercise, as there would probably be no goods, and all trains would be two-car 26 or 28 class railcars! You'd operate the whole thing with three sets - one for the Banrty main line, another connecting for Skib, and a third connecting for Clon. Add a fourth on a Bandon commuter run, and away ye go!

 

This is fascinating.  Thank you! 

It's a good job the 141s are my favourite locos! Oh, along with the G Class of course

I need to learn more about vans/brakes/steam heating vans etc. A couple are going to be essential for accompanying my single coach! I'm not particularly good at identifying types at the moment when looking a photos, although I am getting better. 

Yes, the difference compared to the UK rail system by the 1970s is marked, particularly the loco hauled branch trains. A fairly rare thing in that land of DMUs. 

 

16 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

One interesting thing that happened in the mid 1970s was an increase in services on many routes. With the completion of the A and C class re-engining projects and the delivery of the air-con Mk2 trains and the BR heating vans, there were more resources available and a new timetable with considerably more, faster trains was introduced. 
It turned out to be a over-optimistic and was dialled back a bit until the 071s turned up. But there was a big increase in passengers travelling, and in the late 70s and early 80s there was a very critical shortage of coaching stock, until the DART and Mk3 stock arrived. 
Short branch line trains were a consequence of this!

I do really like the '80s and '90s era transition from Supertrain to IR, but the one drawback is the demise of traditional wagonload freight by the end of the 1970s. That decade seems to give a sweet spot of old and new. Plus, it is very easy to model nowadays with IRM covering the ubiquitous H vans and Bulleid corrugated opens. Supplemented of course with a few kitbuilt examples of other types of rolling stock which hung on. 

[Mol_PMB]

13 minutes ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

 

This is fascinating.  Thank you! 

It's a good job the 141s are my favourite locos! Oh, along with the G Class of course

I need to learn more about vans/brakes/steam heating vans etc. A couple are going to be essential for accompanying my single coach! I'm not particularly good at identifying types at the moment when looking a photos, although I am getting better. 

Yes, the difference compared to the UK rail system by the 1970s is marked, particularly the loco hauled branch trains. A fairly rare thing in that land of DMUs. 

 

I do really like the '80s and '90s era transition from Supertrain to IR, but the one drawback is the demise of traditional wagonload freight by the end of the 1970s. That decade seems to give a sweet spot of old and new. Plus, it is very easy to model nowadays with IRM covering the ubiquitous H vans and Bulleid corrugated opens. Supplemented of course with a few kitbuilt examples of other types of rolling stock which hung on. 

I would strongly recommend seeking out a copy of this little book:

It is an illustrated stocklist of locos, carriages and wagons published in 1979. A great help in understanding the types of rolling stock in use in the 1970s.

There were also 1981 and 1987 editions, perhaps not so ideal for your chosen period, though not much changed between the 1979 and 1981 editions.

 

Edited June 1 by Mol_PMB
correcting typo

[west_clare_wanderer]

24 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I would strongly recommend seeking out a copy of this little book:

It is an illustrated stocklist of locos, carriages and wagons published in 1979. A great help in understanding the types of rolling stock in use in the 1970s.

There were also 1981 and 1987 editions, perhaps not so ideal for your chosen period, though not much changed between the 1979 and 1981 editions.

 

 

Thank you sir! 

Off to Ebay I go..... 

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

One interesting thing that happened in the mid 1970s was an increase in services on many routes. With the completion of the A and C class re-engining projects and the delivery of the air-con Mk2 trains and the BR heating vans, there were more resources available and a new timetable with considerably more, faster trains was introduced. 
It turned out to be a over-optimistic and was dialled back a bit until the 071s turned up. But there was a big increase in passengers travelling, and in the late 70s and early 80s there was a very critical shortage of coaching stock, until the DART and Mk3 stock arrived. 
Short branch line trains were a consequence of this!

CIE introduced a concept of operating more frequent short trains at higher speed (on the main lines) in the 1973 timetable, 001 Class hauled MK2D sets typically loading to a max of 5-6 coaches. Increased frequency was typically by adding an additional fast or non-stop return working daily with 'named' services on Dublin-Cork, Limerick and Waterford routes.

CIE decreased service frequency, and resumed running longer slower trains as CIEs losses increased in response to the 1st Oil Crisis, CIE began speeding up services in 76-77 by using pairs of Bo Bo on fast heavy passenger trains before the introduction of 071s. Typically MK2D stock was used on more lightly loaded Up Morning-Down evening Diagrams, while pairs of Bo Bos hauled conventional stock on the more heavily loaded morning services from Dublin to the provinces. 

Intense TV marketing "The Great Train Robbery"  of the new trains in the early 70s seems to have lead to a 10% increase in traffic, but the Governments introduction of free secondary education in the late 70s and the opening of the Regional Technical Collages in the 70s probabably lead to an increase in young people remaining in Ireland and taking the train to the city or colleage early on a Monday morning (Ballina Sunday) and returning home of Friday evenings.

"Branch Line" trains were not exactly common in Ireland during the 60s-70s. Apart from Loughrea the last of the rural 'feeder branches" had closed following the 1963 closure of Ballaghadereen, Youghal was more secondary main-line with direct passenger services from Cork, seaside excursion trains could be quite long. Limerick-Ballybrophy was operated as a main line served by two daily return services daily until Ballybrophy was modelled in the 1980s.

CIE withdrew the Ballina Branch Passenger train following the 1963 closure of the Burma-Road passenger service and diversion of the daily Limerick-Sligo train to Ballina. The Ballina-Limerick trains appear to have typically loaded to 2 coaches (Laminate or 51-53 Stock) 4w heating Van, 4W TPO.

A through Ballina-Dublin passenger services was introduced in 1972? when a Ballina coach "Brake Standard" was attached to Mayo Line trains between Dublin and Claremorris and worked to an from its destination by the Claremorris Pilot loco a 001. 

Later a 1951-53 Brake Std and a Park Royal were fitted with Storage Heating for use on the Ballina Branch.

While Cravens and Park Royals tended to be used on mainline or suburban services, currently apart from the Silver Fox 1951-3 Brake Second/Standard there does not appear to be a suitable rtr brake for someone modelling the 60s-80s era.

[GSR 800]

Great photos of the PRs as new!

 

[Mol_PMB]

Very nice! 
Were any Park Royals silver when new? My gut feeling is no, and I have never seen a photo of one, but the IRM model description suggests that the mainline 10 were silver, and Fry built a model of one in silver….

If this is a myth it would be good to put it to bed, but maybe it really happened? 

 

[Wexford70]

On 10/6/2025 at 8:43 PM, GSR 800 said:

Great photos of the PRs as new!

 

What type of loco is pulling them? J15?

[Galteemore]

19 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

What type of loco is pulling them? J15?

Looks like ex DSER K2 class. 461 probably as it has no ash chutes on smokebox 

[Niles]

Re: silver Park Royals, I was always under the impression none of them were, however, a while back I copped this Tom Davitt photo in the IRRS Flickr Archive (you'll need to be a member to view the link)

 

The third vehicle from the loco appears to be a silver Park Royal.

https://flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511615324/in/photolist-2pwBnJp-2pwDBh6-2pwCeH4-2pwD1Vj

If only the 10 'mainline' ones were done as such then it would explain the lack of colour photos, probability wise.

Another 'myth' was that Park Royals never carried the earlier dark green; while researching this for the DCDR restoration a few years ago we discovered that several were, likely the early suburban ones (in fact they've appeared on at least three IRRS journal covers over the years, hidden in plain sight).

 

 

 

On 10/6/2025 at 8:53 PM, Mol_PMB said:

 

Interesting to see that Fry 'invented' a 51st member of the class, 1430. 

Edited June 12 by Niles
self critical grammar nazi

[Mol_PMB]

20 hours ago, Niles said:

Re: silver Park Royals, I was always under the impression none of them were, however, a while back I copped this Tom Davitt photo in the IRRS Flickr Archive (you'll need to be a member to view the link)

 

The third vehicle from the loco appears to be a silver Park Royal.

https://flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511615324/in/photolist-2pwBnJp-2pwDBh6-2pwCeH4-2pwD1Vj

If only the 10 'mainline' ones were done as such then it would explain the lack of colour photos, probability wise.

Another 'myth' was that Park Royals never carried the earlier dark green; while researching this for the DCDR restoration a few years ago we discovered that several were, likely the early suburban ones (in fact they've appeared on at least three IRRS journal covers over the years, hidden in plain sight).

 

 

 

Interesting to see that Fry 'invented' a 51st member of the class, 1430. 

Your last point is a very good one, that I had overlooked. In reality, 1430 was a silver coach, but it wasn't a Park Royal - it was one of the early laminates.

Of course the laminates were naturally silver, unless painted. Whereas a Park Royal would need to have been painted silver. Here are some being built:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251537558/

 

The bogies and underframes were painted silver, though they quickly got filthy:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506776188/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53505733947/

BRAY, 185 6Sept1955img106 | Ernies Railway Archive | Flickr

Photos of the laminates under construction show them in unpainted aluminium; it appears that the later ones that entered service in green were only painted when complete and mounted on bogies.

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000303796

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304461

https://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304517

 

Thanks for the link to the photo at Arklow - It is tricky to interpret. It could be silver but it's not entirely conclusive - it could be freshly-painted light green and a more flush-sided coach catching the light more than the panelled coach in front of it. I'm sitting on the fence with that one!

 

There are some other puzzling photos which appear to show silver coaches of non-laminate types, such as this one where the second coach is an ex-GSR type but looks more silver than green:

What we need to find is a clear photo of a 'main line' Park Royal around 1956-57. They can be distinguished by the toilet windows and water filler pipes.

[Niles]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thanks for the link to the photo at Arklow - It is tricky to interpret. It could be silver but it's not entirely conclusive - it could be freshly-painted light green and a more flush-sided coach catching the light more than the panelled coach in front of it. I'm sitting on the fence with that one!

 

Tricky is the word. There some green highlights but I can't tell if that's just the reflection of the vegetation...

[Mol_PMB]

Please could IRM could give us an update on delivery dates for the Park Royals?

Also for the unfitted H vans, for which I was invoiced (and paid) last month?

I am aware of the project status page but at present it isn't particularly helpful for either of these projects, with the Park Royals showing as In Production, due Q2 2025 (now in the past) and the Bulleid wagons all grouped together and showing as In Stock (which the unfitted H vans are not).

https://www.accurascale.com/pages/projects

I'm not in a rush for these models, just looking to plan expenditure over the coming months.

Many thanks,
Paul

[BosKonay]

Hi Paul

The unfitted remain on schedule for August end and are in transit. 

The Park Royals will get a full update in the coming days as the Project Manager assesses the production samples. 

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Hi Paul

The unfitted remain on schedule for August end and are in transit. 

The Park Royals will get a full update in the coming days as the Project Manager assesses the production samples. 

Thank you for the quick and helpful response.

[Wexford70]

Could anyone identify the coaches with this park royal on a train to Dungarvan?

Jimmy Navin, The Signal – man and the railway | Abbeyside Heritage Archive, Dungarvan, Co.Waterford, Ireland

Is the first behind the locos a TPO and the last a dining car?

Edited 16 hours ago by Wexford70

[DJ Dangerous]

On 9/7/2025 at 6:16 PM, BosKonay said:

Hi Paul

The unfitted remain on schedule for August end and are in transit. 

The Park Royals will get a full update in the coming days as the Project Manager assesses the production samples. 

There’s no rush, I’m happy to get Christmas done and dusted, first.

[Mol_PMB]

The first is a bogie luggage van, probably one of those converted from passenger stock, mostly early CIE (2562-2591) but some late GSR (2559-2561). 

The second is a compartment coach, probably CIE early 1950s. Note the toilets near the middle. It's hard to tell from this view whether it's a standard or a composite, but I think there's a door between the toilets making it a standard. Best guess would be one of the 1372-1378 batch of 1954, as it has commonwealth bogies and triangulated underframe.

The next two are 64-seat open standards, with only a single toilet window at the end, but they seem to have different cross-section profiles and different bogies so may be different batches. The leading one could be from the 1356-1371 batch of 1953, and the nearer one may be from the 1497-1503 batch of 1962.

Then the Park Royal - seems to be a suburban type without toilets.

The last is a 32xx series steam heat van converted from passenger stock - some of these retained some of the compartments in passenger use. I think it might be from the 3213-3218 batch.

 

There is no catering car in the train - their roof details are quite distinctive.

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Mol_PMB
suggested number series added.

[jhb171achill]

55 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Could anyone identify the coaches with this park royal on a train to Dungarvan?

Jimmy Navin, The Signal – man and the railway | Abbeyside Heritage Archive, Dungarvan, Co.Waterford, Ireland

Is the first behind the locos a TPO and the last a dining car?

Left to right - 32XX series brake genny standard, converted from early (pre-laminate) 1951-3 CIE side corridor coaching stock in 1977. One is preserved at Downpatrick - 3223. Next, a Park Royal. Next two are late 1950s laminates. Next looks to me (as far as my eyes can make out!) like a 1953-ish CIE standard. Next to the locos, a TPO. So is the train at Dungarvan? That line was closed to passengers in 1967, so with a coach like that (left) it can't be the Rosslare Express. Could it be an IRRS special? If so, I have no recollection of a double-headed one on that line....... and, an IRRS train wouldn't have a TPO! More likely, it could be a Waterford / Dublin train, heading to (or from) Kilkenny, some time 1977-80-ish.

 

 

On 12/6/2025 at 9:26 AM, Wexford70 said:

What type of loco is pulling them? J15?

Looks like 461 or 462, so a K2 class 2.6.0.

[Mol_PMB]

19 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Left to right - 32XX series brake genny standard, converted from early (pre-laminate) 1951-3 CIE side corridor coaching stock in 1977. One is preserved at Downpatrick - 3223. Next, a Park Royal. Next two are late 1950s laminates. Next looks to me (as far as my eyes can make out!) like a 1953-ish CIE standard. Next to the locos, a TPO. So is the train at Dungarvan? That line was closed to passengers in 1967, so with a coach like that (left) it can't be the Rosslare Express. Could it be an IRRS special? If so, I have no recollection of a double-headed one on that line....... and, an IRRS train wouldn't have a TPO! More likely, it could be a Waterford / Dublin train, heading to (or from) Kilkenny, some time 1977-80-ish.

 

 

Looks like 461 or 462, so a K2 class 2.6.0.

The locos are in supertrain livery, so it’s after 1972. 
Behind the locos is a bogie van, not a TPO. That opens up more options of what type of train it is. 

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

The locos are in supertrain livery, so it’s after 1972. 
Behind the locos is a bogie van, not a TPO. That opens up more options of what type of train it is. 

Couldn’t make out the livery. A van like the one behind the loco would primarily have worked in mail trains, rented to carry the like. You’d hardly get it in a special. Therefore, I’d say it’s exceptionally unlikely this is anywhere near Dungarvan. It’ll be a Dublin - Waterford, or Waterford - Dublin train.

[Wexford70]

Thanks for the info, the photo is tagged Dungarvan train. Great variety of carriages, much less interesting these days.