Irish Royalty - Park Royal Coach Next For IRM

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Did they mix n match the suburban ones with mainline ones if they were stuck (in the late 80s, early 90s)?

Absolutely.

From Day 1, ALL new CIE coaches just got mixed in with everything else. Today, many different types of trains have their own type of couplings or gangways - a massively retrograde step. It should be remembered that in the past, all couplings on everything, and almost all gangways, were compatible.

The arrival of fixed-rake Mk 2s on the Enterprise in 1970, and the "Supertrains" in 1972, changed all that, and since then we get uniform rakes of exactly the same type of vehicle. As an aside, this is what gets grumpy oul wans like me waxing lyrical about how dull the railway scene seems today compared with the past, but imagine if on a busy bank holiday, you turned up at Midleton to get a local into Caaark, boy; and the set consisted of an ICR driving car, a 2600 driving car, and a De Deitrich coach in the middle; and hauled behind it was an 1886-built six-wheeler and an ex-Belmond Mk 3, now fitted with bus seats. THAT is what it was like in the past.

Therefore, the Park Royal model has absolutely ENDLESS realistic permutations. In reality, every single solitary type of coaching vehicle, from Cravens to very early 1880s 6-wheelers, is theoretically compatible with one, and they're even suitable as AEC railcar intermediates. Indeed, a single one was converted tio an AEC driving trailer in the late 1950s for the Tramore line, and fitted with bus seats to increase seating capacity. They did this by converting one end vestible into a cab, and putting a window in the end.

In terms of haulage, anything at all from the oldest steam locos (late 1870s!) still at work in 1955, to 071s; and everything in between.

Rarely has anything come on the market with such a wide range of realistic and prototypical uses. I am sure this will sell like hot-cakes; it certainly ought to.

I've mentioned this before - I must try to fish out a photo I have somewhere, which shows a mid-day train passing Port Laoise some time about the mid 1970s. It's not a great photo, but you can make out that of some 11 coaches or so, there are scarcely two exactly the same - and yes, Park Royals are represented in among several types of laminate, Cravens, you name it.

Edited May 2, 2023 by jhb171achill

[Warbonnet]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for everyone who has placed a pre-order so far, these have been unbelievably popular! We’ve had these under way in one form or another for a long time, but of course circumstances and covid put pay to best plans and that. 
 

Thank you to everyone who came by our stand at the excellent Wexford Model Railway show over the weekend to check out the first 3D print of the CAD. Eamonn very kindly let me pose it on the wonderful “Bog Road” too, check it out!
 

Roll on the tooling sample! 

Cheers!

Fran 

[Patrick Davey]

Another superb addition to the range - full marks IRM!!  Two ordered.

[Wexford70]

Lovely photo of a Dublin Suburban set pre DART. Park Royal with Laminates. Anyone identify the two, correction three non PR coaches?

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Wexford70

[Westcorkrailway]

3 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Lovely photo of a Dublin Suburban set pre DART. Park Royal with Laminates. Anyone identify the two no PR coaches?

 

My eyesite may be wrong but I’d swear there is 3 laminates and only 1 Park Royal’s in that train 

[Wexford70]

Another lovely photo from Rosslare in 1987. 

The train on the left, headed by two of CIE's 121 class locomotives, is bound for Dublin (Connolly), while the train on the right is for Cork.

Would these have been the suburban types or the mainline with toilets?

Really need those Tin Vans or a 6 wheel Heating and Luggage Van please IRM!!!!!

Rosslare Harbour railway station - 1987... © The Carlisle Kid cc-by-sa/2.0 :: Geograph Ireland

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Wexford70

[Sean]

ive got a 6 wheeled van........

[Wexford70]

Another example of mixed rolling stock. This time Cobh May 1971.

The train consists of what may be a 1953 built standard, a Park Royal, a "Dutch van" and a "Craven

 

And a double headed 121 set with what looks like Cravens and Park Royals on the way to Rosslare from Dublin 1987.

Limerick Junction to Limerick train in 1993 I believe. 

And finally a mix of Cravens and Park Royals at Tralee, 1984.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Wexford70

[jhb171achill]

38 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

My eyesite may be wrong but I’d swear there is 3 laminates and only 1 Park Royal’s in that train 

The middle "laminate" is actually not a laminate; it looks lime one of the older early 1950s CIE coaches, with solid timber frame rather than laminated timber. As seen elsewhere, always, mixtures were the norm. the six-wheel "tin van" is one of the last batch of these built - 1965 I think.

 

[Fowler4f]

55 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Another lovely photo from Rosslare in 1987. 

The train on the left, headed by two of CIE's 121 class locomotives, is bound for Dublin (Connolly), while the train on the right is for Cork.

Would these have been the suburban types or the mainline with toilets?

Really need those Tin Vans or a 6 wheel Heating and Luggage Van please IRM!!!!!

Rosslare Harbour railway station - 1987... © The Carlisle Kid cc-by-sa/2.0 :: Geograph Ireland

 

 

Hattons are bringing out 6 wheel BnT brake vans £33 each, due Q4/23- Q1/24. Interior lighting £7 extra.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Fowler4f said:

Hattons are bringing out 6 wheel BnT brake vans £33 each, due Q4/23- Q1/24. Interior lighting £7 extra.

There were no more than three or four of those full brakes which ended up in black'n'tan - no passenger-carrying ones ever did, as the very last ones in use were being withdrawn even as the new BnT livery was only first appearing. (This is why only the full brake is being offered in that livery).

About 7 (from memory) full brakes lasted a bit longer. At least two remained green until withdrawn 18 months to 3 years later. The remaining few, all ex-GSWR, seem 9from photos) to have ended their days on the Galway mail trains, where as late as 1967/8 they can be seen. The last two were officially withdrawn in 1969/70 but I believe hadn't been used much in recent times - one certainly hadn't.

The very last was No. 69, which is now at Downpatrick, partly converted into a brake first saloon, though it never ran like that. It has been structurally repaired, and I believe its chassis likewise; I'd love to see it in traffic. It needs little more at this stage, I think, than painting and decorating and loose furniture put into it. Anyone free at weekends?

Edited May 2, 2023 by jhb171achill

[John-r]

Re-read the OP and got the answer I needed, I suppose nobody replied as they thought, God love him he will get it eventually , six duly ordered.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Pre-ordered for definite this time

[Horsetan]

23 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Ya I understand all that but I don't have and never had a bank account....

Sure ye'd be like Bertie Ahern or one of those fellas. He didn't have a bank account either, 'cos he could cash a £38,000 cheque at his local bar....

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

Lovely photo of a Dublin Suburban set pre DART. Park Royal with Laminates. Anyone identify the two, correction three non PR coaches?

 

Typical CIE passenger train of the 1950s-80s similar in outline but no two vehicles alike!

Nearest the camera

1964 Built 6w Heating Van

1356-1371 Series Open Second/Standard-----CIE 1951-54 Stock best described as a MK2 Bredin GSR Bogies constructed using traditional coach building techniques-definitely not a Laminate.

1372-1378 Series Corridor Second/Standard--CIE 1951-54 stock: on Bulleid Triangulated Underframe with Commonwealth Bogies Built 1954. An earlier batch of these coaches 1356-1371 had conventional steel underframes and ran on GSR bogies----definitely not a Laminate

Possibly a 1958 built 1449-1496 Series Laminate Open Second/Standard. These were CIE largest/most common type of second/standard class coach during the 50-70s used mainly on main line duties before the introduction of the Supertrains in 1972 

The CIE 1951-54 Stock were built using traditional coach building techniques welded steel underframe, timber framed bodies with aluminium body panelling with cover slips. The Laminate bodies were modular construction using composite panels Aluminium skin-Insulation (asbestos?)-Plywood internal lining allowing high volume semi-skilled construction.

Interestingly CIE reverted to traditional coach building techniques for it last 100% Inchacore built coaches in 1962-4 1145-1146 Superstandard/First Class and 1444-1448 Second/Standard which ran on Bulleid Triangulated underframes with BR style Commonwealth Bogies.

While British Railways designed and built literally thousands of MK1 coaches for all its Regions during the same period CIE built/assembled three different coach each using totally different coach building techniques. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Mayner

[Noel]

Found this old video earlier when somebody commented and asked if I’ll be ordering. Chalk and cheese models, the IRM versions will be on another planet. Order placed, looking forward to the IRM versions with great anticipation. This train can be brought up to a higher standard. Still I’ve really enjoyed running these basic resin coaches since 2014.

 

[Warbonnet]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

[ttc0169]

41 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

BR and the dutch versions -both types please with working steam heating boiler

[Broithe]

3 minutes ago, ttc0169 said:

BR and the dutch versions -both types please with working steam heating boiler

The technology is there - the Hornby 00 live steamers had a boiler heated by a tiny immersion heater.

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

Dutch is the obvious choice, can go with the park royals, the IE mark 2a/bs and the RPSI mark 2s! 

And also with a heljan tank wagon for a DASH refuelling train

Edited May 3, 2023 by MOGUL

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, ttc0169 said:

BR and the dutch versions -both types please with working steam heating boiler

While we have discussed many times the feasibility of doing GSV both Dutch and BR versions I wonder would there be a market for doing one in DCC with sound and lights both tail and interior one’s working, this would be in the price range reflected in what it is . 

Edited May 3, 2023 by flange lubricator

[jhb171achill]

I personally think you’d get a market for IRM-quality tin vans, as they were with Park Royals - plus everything else - for their first twenty years.

Plus three livery variations of them.

[DJ Dangerous]

5 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

 

How do the numbers stack up? I'm nearly sure that I saw @jhb171achill post before that there were 6 (pre-rebuild) Dutch vans and 22 BR Mk1 GSV at one stage?

EDIT: It was actually @Mayner who gave the numbers, here.

Edited May 3, 2023 by DJ Dangerous

[flange lubricator]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

How do the numbers stack up? I'm nearly sure that I saw @jhb171achill post before that there were 6 (pre-rebuild) Dutch vans and 22 BR Mk1 GSV at one stage?

Four Wheeled and six wheeled heating vans had a very short service life compared to the Dutch and BR vans , happily IRM are doing a brake version of the Park Royal so that means you can run your New Park RoyalS and MM cravens with a brake . 

[StevieB]

The CIE rebuild of 1950’s stock as per the JM Design overlays.

Stephen

[DJ Dangerous]

3 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

While we have discussed many times the feasibility of doing GSV both Dutch and BR versions I wonder would there be a market for doing one in DCC with sound and lights both tail and interior one’s working, this would be in the price range reflected in what it is . 

 

I wonder if it would be possible / feasable to develop a light and sound unit for use across various future IRM heating vans, that could also be sold as a stand-alone unit for retrofitting Silver Fox / DC Kits / IFM / scratch-built heating vans that currently trundle along with no tail lights and no sound. An all in one IRM "Silver Box" that you can pop into your older stock.

[Sean]

5 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

SO WHEN ARE THE NEW DUTCH VANS COMING OUT?!?!  

[John-r]

Definitely the Dutch van both rebuilt and unrebuilt pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. Not sure how many liveries they had maybe four or five, open to correction.  I might have mentioned the Dutch van once or twice over the years not sure,

[jhb171achill]

27 minutes ago, John-r said:

Definitely the Dutch van both rebuilt and unrebuilt pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. Not sure how many liveries they had maybe four or five, open to correction.  I might have mentioned the Dutch van once or twice over the years not sure,

They’ll only be doing Belgian ones…… it’s coz of brexit……

[ttc0169]

@Warbonnet @BosKonay @Garfield

There has been a premier room reserved for each of you in the Mk3 sleeper should you ever need to measure this one….the bar coach is arriving tomorrow 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

Four Wheeled and six wheeled heating vans had a very short service life compared to the Dutch and BR vans 

20-odd years, though, should be enough to justify them, especially bearing in mind all three liveries…..

BR & Dutch about 18 years with them….

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, John-r said:

Definitely the Dutch van both rebuilt and unrebuilt pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. Not sure how many liveries they had maybe four or five, open to correction.  I might have mentioned the Dutch van once or twice over the years not sure,

 

My money would be on ex-BR Mk1 GSVs, looking at it just from the numbers.

22 GSVs vs. 6 Dutch vans, and they can run with current IRM PRs and future IRM PRs, current MM Cravens and future MM Cravens, RPSI Cravens set...

...and more importantly, they share cross-platform modularity with Accurascale BR Mk1 vans / coaches.

Not saying that I don't want Dutch vans, I'd love a few, but I'd also expect, and be prepared, to pay a significantly higher unit price for them.

I can't speak for other members but if an ex-BR Mk1 GSV was going to sell for €60 or €70, I'd happily pay twice that for a Dutch van.

Likewise with the Tin Vans / HLVs, I'd be happy to pay twice the price of a regular coach for one of those, and would buy more than one.

Damn you, OCD.

[irishthump]

Just preordered!

Only need a couple of coaches for my small layout but always happy to support IRM's excellent products.

Would also happily purchase a the BR and Dutch vans if they were produced.

[Fowler4f]

IRM, just bring it on Dutch, GSV even a TPO   and we will buy them all.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

IRM, just bring it on Dutch, GSV even a TPO   and we will buy them all.

And a 24XX dining car and tin vans and…..!