The 'Dream' Layout (again)

[Patrick Davey]

Occasionally I fantasise about having unlimited space, time, patience and of course money, and think about what the 'dream' layout would be.  And of course it changes often....

It's currently Armagh:

* Four lines converging

* Mainline passenger and good trains between Belfast & Cavan

* Steam and diesel railcar operation

* Branch workings from Keady/Castleblayney and also the Newry direction

* Extensive layout with two signal cabins, a level crossing, large goods shed and cattle pens, two loco sheds and turntable

* Double tracked through station with overall roof, two platforms and footbridge

* Very distinctive station architecture

* Detailed plans survive in the IRRS archive, including signal box elevations and station building plans

* Generous photographic coverage

 

Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh..........................

 

 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

A dream is only a dream until it becomes a reality

[Patrick Davey]

One could also ignore the actual historical closure dates, and imagine all the lines survived much longer than they did and that the MGWR made it to Castleblayney from Kingscourt - after protracted legal wranglings they were granted running powers into Armagh.

With at least the main line to Cavan and the Castleblayney line surviving into the 1960s and the CIÉ diesel era, black & tan liveried trains could have formed stopping services from Dublin to Portadown via Clonsilla, Navan, Kingscourt, Castleblayney and Armagh.  Passengers on these trains would have had spectacular views as they swept across Tassagh viaduct, as the thumps of the Crossley engine echoed down the valley.  It wouldn’t be a great place to get stranded though if the locomotive failed……

[Westcorkrailway]

My “dream layput” is crossbarry in the 1960s with the catch that the kinsale branch never closed for….some reason I have yet to come up with in my head cannon.

[DJ Dangerous]

Dream layout:

15m x 4m tail-chaser, two levels, OO Gauge and O Gauge.

4 to 6 OO Gauge lines / 3 to 4 O Gauge lines converging and diverging as they loop around.

Different elevations.

As generic as possible regarding scenery and era to allow maximum flexibility with rolling stock.

Failing all that, I'll happily commandeer @warb's Barrow Street instead!

[jhb171achill]

10 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

One could also ignore the actual historical closure dates, and imagine all the lines survived much longer than they did and that the MGWR made it to Castleblayney from Kingscourt - after protracted legal wranglings they were granted running powers into Armagh.

With at least the main line to Cavan and the Castleblayney line surviving into the 1960s and the CIÉ diesel era, black & tan liveried trains could have formed stopping services from Dublin to Portadown via Clonsilla, Navan, Kingscourt, Castleblayney and Armagh.  Passengers on these trains would have had spectacular views as they swept across Tassagh viaduct, as the thumps of the Crossley engine echoed down the valley.  It wouldn’t be a great place to get stranded though if the locomotive failed……

A recurring theme of mine since teenage years is either a 3ft gauge Achill line, ending up post-West Clare with stuff from there, Leitrim, Dingle and the newest Donegal railcars!  Or, an Achill line in the 1980s with 141s trundling single dingy Park Royals along behind a spluttering Dutch van..........

[226 Abhann na Suire]

Armagh would be a fabulous one actually Patrick… you’d have to win the lotto and by an entire warehouse to do it justice I think!

My dream Layout (Irish based anyway) would probably be a fictional tailchaser with the classic freight yards, main station and branch line, viaduct etc etc, but I’ve always wanted to model Thomastown in the 80s or 90s, there was a great range of rolling stock that went through, 071s, 201s, 121s, 141s, with a range of coaching stock, I believe that Ferts and Magnesite or Gypsum stuff went through too, along with the obvious Liners and Timber and I think even the ‘Arrow’ 2700s got as far as Thomastown too so there’s nice scope for interesting rolling stock while being a simple enough layout - the viaduct would look spectacular if I could pull it off in model form too! 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Armagh would be a fabulous one actually Patrick… you’d have to win the lotto and by an entire warehouse to do it justice I think!

My dream Layout (Irish based anyway) would probably be a fictional tailchaser with the classic freight yards, main station and branch line, viaduct etc etc, but I’ve always wanted to model Thomastown in the 80s or 90s, there was a great range of rolling stock that went through, 071s, 201s, 121s, 141s, with a range of coaching stock, I believe that Ferts and Magnesite or Gypsum stuff went through too, along with the obvious Liners and Timber and I think even the ‘Arrow’ 2700s got as far as Thomastown too so there’s nice scope for interesting rolling stock while being a simple enough layout - the viaduct would look spectacular if I could pull it off in model form too! 

Even NIR 80 class railcars passed by there!

[David Holman]

Too many to list, but 7mm scale continuous run, with a narrow gauge feeder. Just need a 15m x 6m space to build it in, plus the essential time and money...

[226 Abhann na Suire]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Even NIR 80 class railcars passed by there!

JB, surely you’re talking about Armagh and not Thomastown..???

[Irishswissernie]

I'm trying to dream about what I can build in a 10 feet x 2 feet space to replace Glengarriff but my dreams always end in nightmares about the up-coming re-wiring!

[Mayner]

Had several 'dream" layouts Irish and American down the years, though none progressed to far as I seldom stayed in the same place/country too long. I have been planning to build a 21mm gauge layout based on Kiltimagh on the Burma Road for the past 30 years and beyond setting up the baseboard haven't really progressed further during the past 10 years at this stage its doubtful if I will ever reach the tracklayng stage on an Irish 4mm layout in 21mm or OO

I am struggling at this stage to find time for modelling as a result of family commitments and its likely we will have to downsize at some stage to a smaller property and possibly dust off the American N gauge I had in storage for the past 20 years and cull/dispose of my Irish 4mm and American Large Scale collections.

 

[Mike 84C]

Mayner, that sounds a bit sad particularly the Irish collections considering all your effort in designing kits that have helped us all in our quest for Irishness in our models.

I know that life gives us curved balls at times and I find as I age that the mojo is sometimes missing and its so easy to succomb to the siren song of the arm chair!  No Cattle Engine then? 

I am also heading to disposing of my HO Colorado Midland models and book collections.

[Noel]

Claremorris circa 1970 would be an incredible project. 5 Lines once the  countries busiest railway metropolis, I can see 14 coach formations with two GSVs making up knock specials with dozens of black'n'tab breeding, park royals, laminates and cravens taking up all the sidings, and the new fangled mk2 rakes behind orange CIE A classes filling every siding and racked up stabled down the line to the burma road for knock specials. The sheer diversity of goods and passenger traffic that once linked westport, ballina, sligo to Dublin, Athlone, Limerick, Galway and Cork.  Only a single line system but the twin track station layout with the double track crossing is epic, and looks like a twin track mainline station.

Looking left towards Athlone, to the right Athenry, Gort, Ennis, Limerick, Foynes, Cork, Tralee.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Noel

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

For me it's Limerick Junction circa 1980 with the mail train sorting office and the two manned cabins, lots of shunting, oily dirty stock and track beds, even the hole in the fence from the road that I used to run across the tracks with my dad's lunch to the south cabin.

[Galteemore]

My ‘dream layout’ has shrunk in size as I’ve got older, much as I used to ogle the CJ Freezer mammoth plans of long ago. My long term ideal would be  Glenfarne (top pic) or Dromahair (lower pic) c1950, so nothing too complex. But fully signalled and with block instruments linked to fiddle yards at ‘Manorhamilton’ and ‘Belcoo’. Lots of scope for operating the full SLNC timetable with the odd cattle special. I’m not really an operator and prefer building stock but it would be a nice test bed for running what I build. Small station as it is, it would still need a biggish shed in 7mm! Photos are Flickr embeds / click on for credits.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Galteemore

[StevieB]

Or what about Waterford North with five routes and eight platforms.

Stephen

[226 Abhann na Suire]

16 minutes ago, StevieB said:

Or what about Waterford North with five routes and eight platforms.

Stephen

That’s another one I’d love to do actually, very close to home and another very interesting Station layout! Scratch-building the elevated signal box would be an intriguing project to take on as well!

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

JB, surely you’re talking about Armagh and not Thomastown..???

Thomastown!

On 9th October 1988, NIR sets (power cars) 68 and (now DCDR preserved) 69 were on a Clonmel - Waterford - Dublin Sundays-only public passenger train. They were on loan to IE at the time.

The normal 071 + Mk 2 set was unavailable that day due to being in use on a GAA special. The two NIR sets were at that time in use on Dublin suburban services. A third set was on hire from NIR too, and in use on the Cobh line.

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

My ‘dream layout’ has shrunk in size as I’ve got older, much as I used to ogle the CJ Freezer mammoth plans of long ago. My long term ideal would be  Glenfarne (top pic) or Dromahair (lower pic) c1950, so nothing too complex. But fully signalled and with block instruments linked to fiddle yards at ‘Manorhamilton’ and ‘Belcoo’. Lots of scope for operating the full SLNC timetable with the odd cattle special. I’m not really an operator and prefer building stock but it would be a nice test bed for running what I build. Small station as it is, it would still need a biggish shed in 7mm! Photos are Flickr embeds / click on for credits.

 

Always thought Glenfarne (or Belcoo) would be a good candidate for a large-scale outdoor line - say 15mm gauge.

[jhb171achill]

Basically, for a small layout / shunting layout / simple-to-build / starter - or large-scale outdoor - a station with a loop and one or two sidings, made up in just about any configuration imaginable, is perfect. Probably the single best actual prototypes for something like that are Westport Quay, Tramore or (loco operated) Fintona.

[226 Abhann na Suire]

6 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Thomastown!

On 9th October 1988, NIR sets (power cars) 68 and (now DCDR preserved) 69 were on a Clonmel - Waterford - Dublin Sundays-only public passenger train. They were on loan to IE at the time.

The normal 071 + Mk 2 set was unavailable that day due to being in use on a GAA special. The two NIR sets were at that time in use on Dublin suburban services. A third set was on hire from NIR too, and in use on the Cobh line.

That’s amazing!! I’d heard of a Set being on loan to IÉ to tide over the period before the new DART stock was in service but never knew they got down as far as Thomastown, let alone Cork! Fascinating stuff!! As much as I love our rail network today, I do often wish I was alive for those halcyon days between the 60s and 80s…

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

That’s amazing!! I’d heard of a Set being on loan to IÉ to tide over the period before the new DART stock was in service but never knew they got down as far as Thomastown, let alone Cork! Fascinating stuff!! As much as I love our rail network today, I do often wish I was alive for those halcyon days between the 60s and 80s…

It not only got to Thomastown that day - it got to Waterford, and on out to Clonmel! Wonder what the locals made of it. There's a pic of it there in Barry's and my book "Rails Through Tipperary". We believe it was probably a one-off.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by jhb171achill

[Patrick Davey]

Great suggestions folks!

 

What about Clones now......

 

[leslie10646]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:26 PM, Patrick Davey said:

Occasionally I fantasise about having unlimited space, time, patience and of course money, and think about what the 'dream' layout would be.  And of course it changes often....

It's currently Armagh:

* Four lines converging

* Mainline passenger and good trains between Belfast & Cavan

* Steam and diesel railcar operation

* Branch workings from Keady/Castleblayney and also the Newry direction

* Extensive layout with two signal cabins, a level crossing, large goods shed and cattle pens, two loco sheds and turntable

* Double tracked through station with overall roof, two platforms and footbridge

* Very distinctive station architecture

* Detailed plans survive in the IRRS archive, including signal box elevations and station building plans

* Generous photographic coverage

 

Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh..........................

 

 

Get on with it, Patrick. Mine used to be  Armagh, I think 35ft LONG would do it. I have an old map from the museum.

That's why the Dream Layout is Portadown jct - roundhouse (to use the Flesichmann turntable), trains TO Armagh, via Richhill. Masses of trains through each day.

Of course, I've been beaten to it by William (?) Redpath.

I've got the  track down, close to proper trackplan too, just a matter of bringing it up Mr Redpath's level of scenery. He's got the layout, and I've got the rolling stock!

[Mike 84C]

I quite fancy Killarney, not too big and the backing in or out of the platforms is a bit different and its got an engine shed! But how do I find an excuse to run some Ranks grain wagons?

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Thomastown!

On 9th October 1988, NIR sets (power cars) 68 and (now DCDR preserved) 69 were on a Clonmel - Waterford - Dublin Sundays-only public passenger train. They were on loan to IE at the time.

The normal 071 + Mk 2 set was unavailable that day due to being in use on a GAA special. The two NIR sets were at that time in use on Dublin suburban services. A third set was on hire from NIR too, and in use on the Cobh line.

 

One 80 Class set was used on Bray-Greystones shuttles, a second on Cork-Cobh suburban trains.

The third a maintenance spare rotating between the Greystones and Cobh sets, one of its more unusual workings was a Sunday morning Dunlaoire-Heuston 'Boat-Train rather than the usual Dublin City Services bus transfer between Dunlaoire and Connolly. Its possible an 80 Class set was rotated between Dublin and Cork on a weekly basis for maintenance purposes, though I don't know if the transfer working  was a revenue or ECS working.  Passengers were regularly carried in Mitsui 2600 railcar sets on Cork-Dublin transfer working during the 1990s a long slow uncomfortable journey compared with a MK3 set.

Another oddity was that IE advertised a Sunday afternoon/evening Mayo-Waterford passenger service reversing at Kildare following the arrival of the 2700 railcar sets in the late 90s most likely aimed at Waterford College of Technology students. 

Checked out Kildare Station on the appointed date to find a long 80 Class set (Most likely 10 car) waiting in the platform, but no signs of a 70 Class set. The 80 Class was actually on a NIR Curragh Race Special. IE stopped advertising its Mayo-Waterford Sunday evening service, the 2700s were eventually introduced into service on Pearse-Drogheda trains after a very long commissioning period apparently as a result of design and manufacturing defects.

[David Holman]

One thing I have found very useful over the years is to draw a plan of the layout. Most times it will not come to anything, but the exercise can be very cathartic and extremely useful in terms of exorcising the ghosts of such projects.

 Occasionally, they even get built, though the success rate is not grest...

[Mayner]

11 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Mayner, that sounds a bit sad particularly the Irish collections considering all your effort in designing kits that have helped us all in our quest for Irishness in our models.

I know that life gives us curved balls at times and I find as I age that the mojo is sometimes missing and its so easy to succomb to the siren song of the arm chair!  No Cattle Engine then? 

I am also heading to disposing of my HO Colorado Midland models and book collections.

Facing up to reality really, I get most of my enjoyment out of buiding models and tend to loose interest once I complete the main assembly, ending up with a lot ofpart completed models.

I get a great kick out of knowing that some of my kits/models are running on other peoples layouts. I had no plans for further loco kits after I completed the 52 Class, but am tempted to produce a set of parts for a 60 Class and a Midland "Standard Goods".

My most successful layouts mainly N tended to be layouts that were interesting to operate rather than scenically complete, with a couple of stations or yards with a sense that trains were going and arriving from somewhere, I struggle to keep interest in a small or cameo layout running short trains even if it operates 100% reliably.

 

[StevieB]

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

One 80 Class set was used on Bray-Greystones shuttles, a second on Cork-Cobh suburban trains.

The third a maintenance spare rotating between the Greystones and Cobh sets, one of its more unusual workings was a Sunday morning Dunlaoire-Heuston 'Boat-Train rather than the usual Dublin City Services bus transfer between Dunlaoire and Connolly. Its possible an 80 Class set was rotated between Dublin and Cork on a weekly basis for maintenance purposes, though I don't know if the transfer working  was a revenue or ECS working.  Passengers were regularly carried in Mitsui 2600 railcar sets on Cork-Dublin transfer working during the 1990s a long slow uncomfortable journey compared with a MK3 set.

Another oddity was that IE advertised a Sunday afternoon/evening Mayo-Waterford passenger service reversing at Kildare following the arrival of the 2700 railcar sets in the late 90s most likely aimed at Waterford College of Technology students. 

Checked out Kildare Station on the appointed date to find a long 80 Class set (Most likely 10 car) waiting in the platform, but no signs of a 70 Class set. The 80 Class was actually on a NIR Curragh Race Special. IE stopped advertising its Mayo-Waterford Sunday evening service, the 2700s were eventually introduced into service on Pearse-Drogheda trains after a very long commissioning period apparently as a result of design and manufacturing defects.

Wasn’t the third class 80 set used on the reintroduced Dublin-Maynooth service?

Stephen

[Mayner]

Going totally off topic the 80 Class sets were borrowed (leased/hired) by IE in response to an acute coaching stock shortage in the mid/late 1980s, under the Government's 'Building on Reality Programme" there was to be no further investment in the railways after IE completed the Cork Line re-signalling and the MK3 Main Line Coach order.

As far as I recall one 80 Class set was used to work the Bray-Greystones shuttle, a second to work Cork-Cobh and a third to cover maintenance as sets were rotated between Bray and Cork as it would have been extremely challenging to keep three sets in operation simultaneously.

The Bray-Greystones shuttle were replaced by a bus service when the 80 Class sets were returned to NIR in the mid 90s, suburban train services not restored until the DART was extended to Bray in the early 2000s

I don't thing 80 Class regularly worked Maynooth suburban trains the original service was worked by a AEC Push-pull set with the Connolly-Sligo and Connolly-Rosslare sets working early morning Maynooth-Connolly services before taking up their main-line diagrams.  Maynooth trains were mainly hauled stock until replaced by diesel railcars in the mid-late 90s. A 2 Coach MK3 Push Pull set haulled by a 141 with the loco running round regularly operated a Saturday afternoon Connolly-Maynooth service in the Mid 90s. Born out of an Albert Reynolds election promise Maynooth was the poor relation of Dublin Suburban services.

[Ironroad]

As someone who travelled through Connolly on the DART service on a daily basis in the late '80s, I well remember seeing  NIR liveried trains operating the Maynooth service from platform seven. It certainly wasn't a one off thing,. That service was operated exclusively with that equipment  for a long period of time after the withdrawal of the AEC units but i cannot be specific as to dates.  Obviously Maynooth was also served by through trains to Sligo and the Sligo train could be seen held up every morning just before 9am awaiting a path into Connolly.

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, StevieB said:

Wasn’t the third class 80 set used on the reintroduced Dublin-Maynooth service?

Stephen

Yes