"Voiding the Warranty" - Mol's experiments in 21mm gauge

[Ironroad]

Grey and Yellow was also used by the New York Ontario & Western in the years before its demise in 1957. Picture of an EMD NW2 Switcher, in grey and yellow livery of the NYO & W.

https://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1339446

Edited February 9 by Ironroad
typo

[Mol_PMB]

All those discussion of grey and yellow, some day I’ll have to get my 121 out and see if I can make it work. I got it cheap secondhand from a UK seller but it doesn’t work and I fear it may have previously been one of the grey imports. 
 

But plenty more projects ahead of that in the queue. My custom etch is being made and will hopefully be with me by the weekend. 

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Grey and Yellow was also used by the New York Ontario & Western in the years before its demise in 1957. Picture of an EMD NW2 Switcher, in grey and yellow livery of the NYO & W.

https://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1339446

THAT'S the picture I had seen somewhere!

[Ironroad]

20 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

THAT'S the picture I had seen somewhere!

I found it here and I'm thinking wouldn't an Irish version of this resource be fantastic.

https://www.rrpicturearchives.net/railroadList.aspx?tid=5

[Mol_PMB]

Back to the workbench and today's project has been another 6-wheel underframe and 'bogies' from an SSM kit. 

This one has shortened footboards and modifications to the brake arrangements including a wheel handbrake, as it is for the sleeping car.

[Mol_PMB]

The conclusion of the Eau-de-Nil transfer project is here.

I'm pleased with these.

The ALPS ink layers used by Precision Decals are as follows:

• White 
• ER Camel for the 'gold' outline of the snail
• ER Lime for the EdN areas
• ER Pastel White overlaying the Lime
• ER Pastel White overlaying the Lime (again)

Note that the snail here is the middle size, used on locos and horseboxes. I have done some bigger ones to suit carriages and steam loco tenders.

This will allow me to proceed with giving A42 a new identity as A11, which will also require a bit of painting but hopefully not a full repaint. I'll get my current batch of carriages finished first though.

 

[popeye]

That looks good, can we see it close up?

[Mol_PMB]

11 minutes ago, popeye said:

That looks good, can we see it close up?

The registration of the layers isn't quite perfect on the snail, but you can't tell with the naked eye. This snail is 8mm long.

[popeye]

Up close shows every thing, but it won't be seen.

I usually cut as close to the decal as possible so the carrier film is less visible

but the light catches the top edge.

[Mol_PMB]

I've given A42 a new identity as A11. 

As you can see there have been some other livery adjustments including black roof, front handrails and wipers, correct for this loco:

Cruel closeup of the snail, number and lining transfers. I'm pleased with how these have come out:

The next step is a coat of varnish and then some weathering.

[Mol_PMB]

Weathering of the A class body has begun, with various brush-applied details based on the study of many photos of the Crossley-engined A class. 

When this has fully dried I will do some more spraying, mostly on the roof.

I have also regauged the bogies using Accurascale Deltic wheels, and the sideframes are awaiting weathering.

An A class is really too big for my layout (in reality, they were prohibited from the Quartertown Mill branch) but it will have to do until IRM produce a C class!

 

Meanwhile I have continued work on the tin van, including a more subtle (perhaps too subtle this time) representation of the rivets. Also the EdN-coloured lettering that is prototypically hard to read on a silver background. This will need a lot more weathering too.

Finally I was tipped off about a supplier still with reasonable stocks of Markits bits, and I stocked up on a lot of bits and pieces that might come in useful one day.

Parts like these are getting more and more difficult to find.

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/92/4mm-scale-accessories-by-markits/

[Tullygrainey]

Lovely subtle weathering on A11

[Turin60]

So many exquisite parts that have seemingly gone from the market, indeed the work involved in making some of them is truly wonderful. I'm sure some clever soul could knock up something similar on his 3D printer but it won't shine like freshly turned brass and have the feel of something made by a craftsman.

I'll get off my soapbox now!

John Bruce.

Edited February 16 by Turin60
spelling

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Weathering of the A class body has begun, with various brush-applied details based on the study of many photos of the Crossley-engined A class. 

When this has fully dried I will do some more spraying, mostly on the roof.

I have also regauged the bogies using Accurascale Deltic wheels, and the sideframes are awaiting weathering.

An A class is really too big for my layout (in reality, they were prohibited from the Quartertown Mill branch) but it will have to do until IRM produce a C class!

 

Meanwhile I have continued work on the tin van, including a more subtle (perhaps too subtle this time) representation of the rivets. Also the EdN-coloured lettering that is prototypically hard to read on a silver background. This will need a lot more weathering too.

Finally I was tipped off about a supplier still with reasonable stocks of Markits bits, and I stocked up on a lot of bits and pieces that might come in useful one day.

Parts like these are getting more and more difficult to find.

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/92/4mm-scale-accessories-by-markits/

The "snail" and numeral and lining on the loco, and the lettering on the tin van, are 100% perfect!

[Mayner]

3 hours ago, Turin60 said:

So many exquisite parts that have seemingly gone from the market, indeed the work involved in making some of them is truly wonderful. I'm sure some clever sole could knock up something similar on his 3D printer but it won't shine like freshly turned brass and have the feel of something made by a craftsman.

I'll get off my soapbox now!

John Bruce.

The decline in the availibility of specialist parts and kits is tied up with the increasing availability of high quality British outline 4mm rtr models (since late 90s) as much as the business owners retiring or passing away. Designing and manufacturing high quality 3D printed models or parts involve similar levels of skill and experience to traditional methods.

Markits beautiful turned brass parts are likely to have been mass produced using CNC techniques, rather than individually made by a craftsman.

Ironically several years ago I used 3D modelling to produce lost wax brass detail parts for a D17/52 Class kit a precious metal supplier producing the lostwax masters and rubber moulds from my 3D digital model.

There are 3D printers and 3D printers, for small parts I use a desktop resin printer that cost around £450, the businesses that carried out my production printing use full size machines costing upwards of £45,000.

Edited February 16 by Mayner

[Colonel]

Rivets look great now. Small scale modelling can be as much about artistry as precision at times, I think. Some items need to stand out to look right, either by size or paint job. Others look better scaled back a bit. And let's face it, tiny items like rivet heads only need to be fractions of a millimetre too big to look wrong - something even a coat of paint will exacerbate.

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Colonel said:

Rivets look great now. Small scale modelling can be as much about artistry as precision at times, I think. Some items need to stand out to look right, either by size or paint job. Others look better scaled back a bit. And let's face it, tiny items like rivet heads only need to be fractions of a millimetre too big to look wrong - something even a coat of paint will exacerbate.

Thanks. My approach this time was to make perforated paper stencils using the laser cutter, and then spray-paint the rivets in brown. 

[Mol_PMB]

Excitement as the postie has delivered a shiny new etch this morning!

 

[Mol_PMB]

There’s nothing more exciting than getting stuck in to something new. This is why my workbench is littered with half-finished projects. But I can’t help myself!

Sides for the full brake completed:

I did the underframe a couple of weeks ago, so roof and ends still to do. Not much interior needed in this van. 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

There’s nothing more exciting than getting stuck in to something new. This is why my workbench is littered with half-finished projects. But I can’t help myself!

Sides for the full brake completed:

I did the underframe a couple of weeks ago, so roof and ends still to do. Not much interior needed in this van. 

I like that with the simplified CIE-era panelling!

Edited February 18 by jhb171achill

[Mol_PMB]

16 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I like that with the simplified CIE-era panelling!

Inspired by these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508917406

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511597820

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511332133

There were others with slightly different variations of panelling, vents etc. I chose one without a birdcage lookout, but the roof does have small skylights each end.

[Mol_PMB]

Roof construction in progress for the full brake and the sleeping car:

Somehow I drew the holes in the sleeping car roof about 0.5mm too small and I'm having to enlarge them slightly to fit in the water tanks. Careless of me. Perhaps I double-counted the kerf allowance.

Once the main parts are done there will be lots of fiddly gas piping and castings to add.

[Rob R]

Better too small than too big...

[Mol_PMB]

I seem to have spent all day burning my fingers, inhaling phosphoric acid fumes, and ingesting toxic metal dust. 

I had forgotten how long it takes to detail up the rooves of these 6-wheel coaches, but I'm finally just about there. I've slightly simplified the gas piping and I've had to make up a few bits that weren't clear on the photos, but I think these are satisfyingly 'busy' which appeals to me. And very often we see models from above so I think it's worth putting the effort in.

There's a bit more cleaning up to do, but I'll leave that for a day or two.

Perhaps I will finish the assembly of these two coaches this weekend, and get them into primer.

[Flying Snail]

That piping looks very tidy. Nice!

[Mol_PMB]

I only ordered one copy of this etch, but I've actually been sent two sets. The one I haven't used is marked 'Dodgy - Replace' but I'm struggling to see much wrong with most of it.

I'll have a closer look at the weekend, but was just wondering if anyone else would be interested in a set of these bits for either the full brake or the sleeping car? It's not a complete kit, just sides and roof to go with the SSM underframe, ends and detailing parts.

[Galteemore]

Good job on the soldering. I got fed up with phos acid flux fizzing and spitting everywhere so I now use safety flux that’s meant for stained glass. Works a treat and just washes off nicely with no residue.

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Good job on the soldering. I got fed up with phos acid flux fizzing and spitting everywhere so I now use safety flux that’s meant for stained glass. Works a treat and just washes off nicely with no residue.

That's a good tip - many thanks. Any particular brand you would recommend?

[Galteemore]

1 minute ago, Mol_PMB said:

That's a good tip - many thanks. Any particular brand you would recommend?

Search on eBay ‘stained glass supplies’ is the cove I buy off. Just add a drop of liquid soap to help it flow 

[Horsetan]

35 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

That's a good tip - many thanks. Any particular brand you would recommend?

Example here - seems to be a zinc flux, but doesn't actually say which metals it will work on, other than copper.

[Galteemore]

This is the one I use. Works well on brass and NS 

[Mol_PMB]

I’ll give it a go - I’ve ordered the one @Galteemore shows. 
I generally find Carr’s Green to be an excellent flux but as my eyesight gets a bit worse with age I find myself being closer to the job and the fumes are not very kind to the lungs. 

[Mol_PMB]

Following some recommendations on the forum and seeing Richard Maclachlan's talk at IRRS Manchester, I have purchased some more sets of drawings and documents from the IRRS. I've only had a very quick look at them, but they appear very interesting and useful. What I've acquired:

 

Early editions of the CIE carriage registers, lists of numbers and characteristics of all the coaching stock (including NPCCS):  

• CCL 006.1 CIE Coach Classification 1946 (with alterations to 1950)
• CCL 007.1 CIE Coach Classification 1953 (with later alterations)

They are equivalent in content (though not in format) to the 1961 and 1969 carriage registers that @seagoebox and @flange lubricator kindly shared with me last summer. With quite a bit of work they will enable me to add much more information to my carriage register spreadsheet. In the short term they give me some more information to add to the threads on horseboxes and 6-wheel coaches.

 

CIE painting and lining drawings:

• DCD 006.1 CIE Rolling Stock Painting and Lining Schedules

This includes detail drawings for the coaching stock transfers, and where they should be placed.

The transfer drawings give details of the sizes, shapes and numbers/letters, plus a separate drawing for the snail. There are also a couple of very useful tables giving details of where each group of transfers is to be used, plus their colours and (where appropriate) outer lining width and colour. Some of the transfers are used inside the carriage. It even tells us that the shade of Eau-de-Nil is to BS381C. The drawing appears to date from around 1951/2 and includes items and notes for the original 1940s CIE livery and the early 1950s livery applied to the AEC railcars and new carriages. Also for horseboxes and other NPCCS.

There are two drawings dated 1958 which appear to be focused on the repainting of former GNR stock (carriages, railcars and wagons) in light green livery (grey for wagons).

There are a group of drawings dated October/November 1961 giving details of the early black and tan livery (with the shallower tan band, and the numbers on a black background). These cover both railcars and carriages.

 

CIE rolling stock drawings:

• DCD 007.1 Compendium of CIE Rolling Stock Drawings

These are mostly for NPCCS, with a few locos, carriages and wagons amongst them. Some are diagrams, but others are proper engineering drawings. Very useful for tin vans and TPOs, heating vans including the BR vans but not the Dutch. Also the last few pre-Cravens coaches built at Inchicore, as well as the Cravens themselves. Park Royals and a couple of dining cars. Some proposal drawings for stock which many not have been built.

 

GSWR rolling stock drawings:

• GSWR Drawings for printing

These are engineering drawings with much more detail that typical diagrams. As well as complete carriages, they include drawings for bogies, brakes, underframe details and other components. However, the coverage is far from complete and I expect this reflects what survived to reach the IRRS collection - about 60 drawings in total. There is a focus on older arc-roof bogie stock - 45' and 50' long vehicles and the 66' clerestories. Some good drawings of underframes for 6-wheelers as well as for the bogie stock.

 

MGWR rolling stock drawings:

• DCD 002.1 MGWR NPCS Compendium

These are the most attractive drawings of the ones I bought, many being coloured as well as fully dimensioned. There are detailed GA drawings of the construction of various 6-wheel full brakes, a brake third, TPO and a stores van. Also two types of horsebox, what is described as a 'cattle box' but looks more like a meat van, open carriage truck and drovers' brake. There are also detail drawings such as a Mansell wheelset and a drawing detailing the fitment of vacuum brake pipes to existing stock. Goods stock drawings include a ballast plough brake, 7t goods van, timber trucks and a 20t goods brake.

Note there is a companion set of MGWR passenger coach drawings which I have not (yet) bought)

 

Plenty of inspiration there!

 

Edited February 21 by Mol_PMB

[flange lubricator]

Don’t forget their a a nice few drawings on the resources section of this site including the Dutch Vans and laminates .

Edited February 21 by flange lubricator

[Mol_PMB]

I've done some further study of the IRRS GSWR carriage drawings and cross-referenced them against the Transport Research Associates GSWR carriage diagram book.

The IRRS drawings provide good coverage of the following:

• 45' arc roof bogie coaches of the 1897-1902 period, including 10 different body types (of 12) and 3 underframe drawings
• 50' arc roof bogie coaches of the 1901-1912 period, including 4 different body types (of 6) and 1 underframe drawing
• 50' and 66' clerestory coaches of the 1901-1907 period, including 6 different body types (of 10) and 3 underframe drawings

There are also bogie drawings for the GSWR 8' wheelbase 4-wheel bogie and the 11'6" wheelbase 6-wheel bogie.

A few oddments including a 47' compartment third, WLWR bogie saloon 935 and 6-wheel saloons 600/601

Very little for the 57' coaches, just a body drawing for diners 2092/3 and an underframe drawing that is in rather poor condition, and has confusing double dimensioning for 57' and 60' underframes. It also states that it is for 9'0" wheelbase bogies so I assume it is applicable to the 1920s carriages.

There is a good variety of underframe drawings for 6-wheel coaches, both wooden and steel.

 

The existence of drawings always makes me wonder about models! Most of the 45' stock was withdrawn by 1960 - the photo from Ernie is mid-50s:

But the 50' stock was slightly longer-lived with some passenger coaches lasting to the mid-1960s and the full brakes into the 1970s. Photos from Ernie again:

And from Jonathan Allen:

Hmmmm. Do I foresee another custom etch?

Edited February 21 by Mol_PMB