Invitation To Exclusive IRM New Locomotive Launch Event At The Fry Model Railway Museum, Malahide

[Horsetan]

17 minutes ago, mphoey said:

if its an 800 class then theres 3 locos with 2 liveries each so 6 locos total  the big thing is they will have a working sample at the event so the loco is possibly been released before the hunslets

Might be the NCC "W" 2-6-0 which has quite a lot going for it.

An 800 wouldn't be enough to tempt me away from my SSM kit - at least I'm building that in 21mm gauge from the start.

[Mol_PMB]

"latest locomotive project" ... "Accurascale/IRM launch our most ambitious locomotive yet"

So the ambitiousness (if that's a word) is in a locomotive rather than for example a complete train set or pack.

What could be more ambitious than what's been done already? And is it ambitious for IRM, or more ambitious than the full Accurascale range?

Well maybe hi-tech gizmos, but it has to be said that other recent attempts like Hornby's smoke effects and working poseable lamps have had a rather lukewarm reception.

Another thing often referred to as ambitious in model announcements is a set of tooling that can cater for a lot of prototype variations. If true, then an 800 would be less likely and even a moderate coverage of the range of prototype J15s would be impressive. Having said that, there are plenty of variants among the AS 'Buckjumpers' and Austerity tanks for example.

We may be reading too much into just one word! But I can't wait to see what it is...

 

 

[Bob229]

Looking forward to this announcement and a fine venue for a launch probably a Steam Loco Meabh maybe, won't be able to attend a bit of a trek from Cork on a Monday  hope it's live streamed 

[jhb171achill]

56 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Are you sure you want to use a tender? May be better to threaten with a tank!

Kevin Lane photo, 1969 (before preservation)

Aaaarrrghhghgh! Not the TANK! I give in.  The new model will be a

(damn keyboard broke there...)

53 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

 But I have been wrong on every single previous occasion I have tried to guess what the lads are about to reveal!

So have I!

[Galteemore]

 I take your tank and raise you a Large Tank 

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Aaaarrrghhghgh! Not the TANK! I give in.  The new model will be a

(damn keyboard broke there...)

But just think of how many liveries you could paint the TANK! 

No need to stick to boring prototypical black, I bet it would look good in NCC red, BCDR green or even GNR blue a bit like this:

(Neil Harvey photo on Flickr)

4 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

 I take your tank and raise you a Large Tank 

Why limit yourself to a 2-6-4 or an 0-6-4 when you could have 464 which was, err, only a 4-6-0...

(Ernie photo)

[Galteemore]

4 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

But just think of how many liveries you could paint the TANK! 

No need to stick to boring prototypical black, I bet it would look good in NCC red, BCDR green or even GNR blue a bit like this:

(Neil Harvey photo on Flickr)

That’s clearly why JHB is involved in the reveal. He’s drawn up all those authentic livery schemes. Although IIRC in the very early 70s a plan was hatched by some NCC fans in the RPSI to paint 4 NCC red. Souvenir badges of her as such were produced and sold, again the gargle dims me brain but that’s what I recall….

Edited Tuesday at 19:16 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

But just think of how many liveries you could paint the TANK! 

No need to stick to boring prototypical black, I bet it would look good in NCC red, BCDR green or even GNR blue a bit like this:

(Neil Harvey photo on Flickr)

Many reach for their smelling salts at the sight of this, but I think it actually looks well.

So, we’re looking now at a Jeep with a choice of Donegal red, GNR blue, CIE green, or WLWR maroon….

[Galteemore]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

Many reach for their smelling salts at the sight of this, but I think it actually looks well.

So, we’re looking now at a Jeep with a choice of Donegal red, GNR blue, CIE green, or WLWR maroon….

And SLNC black. With plates ‘Belfast Lough’ 

[Patrick Davey]

Predicting this will become the most active and 'hot' thread on the forum in recent years.

With a generous helping of crackpot suggestions too.

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Many reach for their smelling salts at the sight of this, but I think it actually looks well.

So, we’re looking now at a Jeep with a choice of Donegal red, GNR blue, CIE green, or WLWR maroon….

 

Pretty much like the Wrenn catalogue from the 1970s!

Just think of all those shades of CIE green to choose from...

[Mol_PMB]

Maybe there's some kind of inverse logic going on in the model railway world?

On the most numerous GB multiple-unit ever, 1000s built, that works all over the place (i.e. the Electrostar), AS still haven't got quite enough support to start production. 

Yet they announce models of a class of just 3 Irish locos that were confined to a small part of the network and worked for a relatively short time (i.e. the Hunslets), and they're overwhelmed with orders!

So on the latter theme, another class of just 3 Irish locos that were confined to a small part of the network and worked for a relatively short time, could be an option. Dunno what JHB has to do with it all though, maybe he chose the shade of green?

 

Edited Tuesday at 19:36 by Mol_PMB
grammar

[Patrick Davey]

Could also be a S class 2-4-2 narrow gauge compound of the NCC/UTA.

Or a BCDR baltic tank.

Certainly both could be described as ambitious projects!

Edited Tuesday at 19:55 by Patrick Davey

[Mayner]

21 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

?

 

Interesting to see a photo of "The Ranch" (terrace houses in background) when it was still out in the country, before the building of the Ballyfermot housing estate in the 1940s

Edited Tuesday at 20:01 by Mayner

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Interesting to see a photo of "The Ranch" (terrace houses in background) when it was still out in the country, before the building of the Ballyfermot housing estate in the 1940s.

 

There are some interesting photos in the same album, image quality is a bit mixed but it's fascinating to see what it was like in and around the works over the years:

 

[jhb171achill]

20 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Maybe there's some kind of inverse logic going on in the model railway world?

On the most numerous GB multiple-unit ever, 1000s built, that works all over the place (i.e. the Electrostar), AS still haven't got quite enough support to start production. 

Yet they announce models of a class of just 3 Irish locos that were confined to a small part of the network and worked for a relatively short time (i.e. the Hunslets), and they're overwhelmed with orders!

So on the latter theme, another class of just 3 Irish locos that were confined to a small part of the network and worked for a relatively short time, could be an option. Dunno what JHB has to do with it all though, maybe he chose the shade of green?

 

My involvement is simply that I'm involved with the museum, and do all the historical / model arrangement side of it.  Another regular on here is involved in the maintenance and servicing and trouble-shooting of the operational 00 scale layout. The new model on Monday night will be seen running on it too, all being well, so he'll be in attandance too. Mind you, as far as liveries are concerned, I've a very wide data base of what went with what!

On an unrelated note, that pic above shows Ballyfermot when it was as Senior remembered it - rurality beyond inchicore! he was there the day they rolled 800 out for that photo. It was in works grey, not yet painted green, and not yet fitted with either nameplates nor its GSR crest on the tender.

It was standard practive to photo locos when new in shades of grey and white, as this showed detail up best in photos, which of course were all in B&W. Inside, the painters awaited with the new green paint for the very first locos of either gauge to emerge with anything other than all-over grey for over 20 years. It must have been some sight.

The reason that 800 had no nameplate for its official photos above was that they had planned an English language one, thus "Maeve", and written in roman characters. Someone decided that instead it should have Gaelic script, and the Irish spelling; and thus it was. But on photo day, the new ones weren't ready yet.

Now, back to the event on Monday night!

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

My involvement is simply that I'm involved with the museum, and do all the historical / model arrangement side of it.  Another regular on here is involved in the maintenance and servicing and trouble-shooting of the operational 00 scale layout. The new model on Monday night will be seen running on it too, all being well, so he'll be in attandance too. Mind you, as far as liveries are concerned, I've a very wide data base of what went with what!

On an unrelated note, that pic above shows Ballyfermot when it was as Senior remembered it - rurality beyond inchicore! he was there the day they rolled 800 out for that photo. It was in works grey, not yet painted green, and not yet fitted with either nameplates nor its GSR crest on the tender.

It was standard practive to photo locos when new in shades of grey and white, as this showed detail up best in photos, which of course were all in B&W. Inside, the painters awaited with the new green paint for the very first locos of either gauge to emerge with anything other than all-over grey for over 20 years. It must have been some sight.

The reason that 800 had no nameplate for its official photos above was that they had planned an English language one, thus "Maeve", and written in roman characters. Someone decided that instead it should have Gaelic script, and the Irish spelling; and thus it was. But on photo day, the new ones weren't ready yet.

Now, back to the event on Monday night!

Sorry, I was attempting to be tongue in cheek, maybe that didn't come across. I had guessed that 'Senior' would have been there for this photo, and that the loco was actually grey (not green at all) when pictured.

The same album has a photo of 801 in fully lined livery, much more elaborate than the photographic grey:

 

[mphoey]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

That’s clearly why JHB is involved in the reveal. He’s drawn up all those authentic livery schemes. Although IIRC in the very early 70s a plan was hatched by some NCC fans in the RPSI to paint 4 NCC red. Souvenir badges of her as such were produced and sold, again the gargle dims me brain but that’s what I recall….

ok lets see who can find a picture of said badge

[Darrman]

Well IRM started (loco-wise) with an A. The C is a smaller A. Add in a few extra bells and whistles and bingo. Probably fails the ambition test, though.

If steam, it's probably a preserved loco. The 800s certainly fit the ambition bill in so far as they're the biggest locos out there. The J15s are the most numerous. But if the event's in Malahide, maybe something GNR might fit better. Of the preserved classes, what Wikipedia calls the Q class (131) was the largest at 13 locomotives. So perhaps that one?

No electric locos, and I can't see a Dart being produced! With how bumpy the ICR road's been, I don't see any other railcar announcements either. Every chance I end up with egg on my face, of course.

Either way, I've been good for... maybe a month. If it ran in the lands of West Cork, I'll buy it. If it ran in County Cork, I'll probably buy it. If neither are true, the odds are decent I'll want to buy it anyway. All will be revealed in time...

[Signal Post]

41 minutes ago, mphoey said:

ok lets see who can find a picture of said badge

Might be as difficult as getting an invitation to Monday nights event! When I got home from work and saw my email (3 hours after it was sent) the application list had already closed, I'm glad for the lads in IRM to have got such a swift and enthusiastic response from the members on here but sad for myself (and I'm sure others) who have missed out. Trying to figure out whether I should dig out the telephoto lens and hide in the greenery adjacent to the Casino or perhaps don a white donkey outfit and return as the "ghost of donkeys past"* and look in the window....

 

*Folks with long memories of Malahide may appreciate the reference...

Edited Tuesday at 21:01 by Signal Post

[Flying Snail]

2 hours ago, mphoey said:

if its an 800 class then theres 3 locos with 2 liveries each so 6 locos total 

How can you forget Maeḋḃ's third livery ... the "preservation" livery of CIE lined green with GS lettering? 

There's been some very persuasive arguments for the 800s and J15s, and given the location I wouldn't be surprised by a GNR 4-4-0 ......

..... but I'll stick with the jeep as my official guess! Now whats this about it in a red NCC livery?? 

[mphoey]

3 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

How can you forget Maeḋḃ's third livery ... the "preservation" livery of CIE lined green with GS lettering? 

There's been some very persuasive arguments for the 800s and J15s, and given the location I wouldn't be surprised by a GNR 4-4-0 ......

..... but I'll stick with the jeep as my official guess! Now whats this about it in a red NCC livery?? 

that makes 10 locos then add in original grey and we have 11 the same number of hunslets available

[Galteemore]

21 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

How can you forget Maeḋḃ's third livery ... the "preservation" livery of CIE lined green with GS lettering? 

There's been some very persuasive arguments for the 800s and J15s, and given the location I wouldn't be surprised by a GNR 4-4-0 ......

..... but I'll stick with the jeep as my official guess! Now whats this about it in a red NCC livery?? 

Something has stirred in the oul brain…I have a vague memory Mac Arnold may have advocated it. It’s easy to forget now but in preservation’s early days all kinds of weird and wonderful liveries could be seen in GB. In fact, even the RPSI’s 186 was initially turned out in SLNCR livery - plain black with red rods !
 

People had, I think, become so used to steam locos in appalling states of decay that anything which captured a bit of colour was welcome. NI enthusiasts had spent the years since 1948 watching locos gradually become a universal shade of dirty black. With no prospect of ever seeing the prewar NCC livery again, I think Mac may have advocated applying it to the Jeep, presumably on the basis they’d have carried it if delivered pre 39. 

Edited Tuesday at 21:24 by Galteemore

[Flying Snail]

7 minutes ago, mphoey said:

that makes 10 locos then add in original grey and we have 11 the same number of hunslets available

Well, other manufacturers have done it .....

... good use of the old grey cells @mphoey 

Edited Tuesday at 21:13 by Flying Snail

[jhb171achill]

24 minutes ago, Signal Post said:

Might be as difficult as getting an invitation to Monday nights event! When I got home from work and saw my email (3 hours after it was sent) the application list had already closed, I'm glad for the lads in IRM to have got such a swift and enthusiastic response from the members on here but sad for myself (and I'm sure others) who have missed out. Trying to figure out whether I should dig out the telephoto lens and hide in the greenery adjacent to the Casino or perhaps don a white donkey outfit and return as the "ghost of donkeys past"* and look in the window....

 

*Folks with long memories of Malahide may appreciate the reference...

Maybe a few of us might detour to a local hostelry when all the buns are eaten.....

18 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

How can you forget Maeḋḃ's third livery ... the "preservation" livery of CIE lined green with GS lettering? 

There's been some very persuasive arguments for the 800s and J15s, and given the location I wouldn't be surprised by a GNR 4-4-0 ......

..... but I'll stick with the jeep as my official guess! Now whats this about it in a red NCC livery?? 

Very true..... the Cultra livery, of course, follows the well-established Irish preservation tradition of getting liveries wrong on just about everything but ITG diesels (G611 excepted) and the RPSI's GNR locos, No. 4, and (belatedly) 186!

Incidentally - how on a keyboard have you managed to get the dots above the "d" and the "b" on "Maedb"?

 

Nice touch, and correct; didn't know it was possible.

 

[spudfan]

The word "ambitious" seems to imply something out of the ordinary. So not just a loco on it's on, but a small loco with some wagons. So maybe a 401 or a 421 class plus three cattle wagons?

[Georgeconna]

6 hours ago, enniscorthyman said:

Great excitement.My guess is a C class or j15.

Hopefully not another Diesel, J15 would be nice for sure.

4 hours ago, mphoey said:

if its an 800 class then theres 3 locos with 2 liveries each so 6 locos total  the big thing is they will have a working sample at the event so the loco is possibly been released before the hunslets

800 Train pack!

[Flying Snail]

12 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Maybe a few of us might detour to a local hostelry when all the buns are eaten.....

Very true..... the Cultra livery, of course, follows the well-established Irish preservation tradition of getting liveries wrong on just about everything but ITG diesels (G611 excepted) and the RPSI's GNR locos, No. 4, and (belatedly) 186!

Incidentally - how on a keyboard have you managed to get the dots above the "d" and the "b" on "Maedb"?

 

Nice touch, and correct; didn't know it was possible.

 

Its possible, but not straightforward  

As we know, there's lots of alphabets each with their own characters - Latin, Arabic, Cyrillic etc.  There's far more possible characters out there than there is space on our keyboards. Computers get around this problem by using text encoding standards where each letter, digit, or symbol is assigned a unique code. One of these standards is called Unicode. Unicode uses a hexadecimal based code - its code for ḃ is IE03 and the code for ḋ is 1E0B. I've set up my computer keyboard so that I can use Unicode Hex Input - when I hold down the ALT key and enter the four digit Hex code I get the character represented by that code.

Of course, you have to know the Unicode codes for each character you want to use ... and you have to first configure your computer's keyboard/input device. Without doing that you most likely won't see a ḃ when you type IE03. Of course, this is all even more awkward if you're using a phone/tablet instead of a computer with a keyboard.

 

However as an alternative you can copy a word like Maeḋḃ from another source - say a web page or a Word document, and paste it into your post here - the ḋ and ḃ should display properly then

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:10 by Flying Snail
trying to reduce the gobbledegook

[jhb171achill]

I copied it as you said and it works. Many thanks! I know a guy who is building a live steam one so I will pass this on to him.

[Mayner]

14 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Maybe there's some kind of inverse logic going on in the model railway world?

A bit like middle aged and older men buying high powered motorcycles and sports cars for many people logic just does not come into it when it comes to buying locos.  Hence manufacturers producing models of alpha locos such as the Leader, LMS Twins, "Hush Hush" and lots of Pacifics.

I went through a phase of buying expensive large scale American Brass locos during my late 50s though cured of the affliction now that I am on a fixed income and retirement savings almost gone.

A successful manufacturer/commissioner will only produce models that will sell well, probably main reason Hornby Dublo and Hornby focused on large express steam locos, with a handful of tank and mixed traffic locos in their ranges.

Although I was mighty tempted by a Hunslet and a rake of coaches in the original livery it was pass go, though just might be tempted by 207 Boyne in Blue and a rake of matching GNR coaches the first 'express train" I ever saw though completely outside my areas of modelling interest and having run out of storage space

Edited Wednesday at 10:39 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Mayner said:

A bit like middle aged and older men buying high powered motorcycles and sports cars for many people logic just does not come into it when it comes to buying locos.  Hence manufacturers producing models of alpha locos such as the Leader, LMS Twins, "Hush Hush" and lots of Pacifics.

I went through a phase of buying expensive large scale American Brass locos during my late 50s though cured of the affliction now that I am on a fixed income and retirement savings almost gone.

A successful manufacturer/commissioner will only produce models that will sell well, probably main reason Hornby Dublo and Hornby focused on large express steam locos, with a handful of tank and mixed traffic locos in their ranges.

Although I was mighty tempted by a Hunslet and a rake of coaches in the original livery it was pass go, though just might be tempted by 207 Boyne in Blue and a rake of matching GNR coaches the first 'express train" I ever saw though completely outside my areas of modelling interest and having run out of storage space

That’s the thing - space!

Ive passed the point where all can sit in sidings. What I do now - and its light years short of perfect - is put a pile of 1950s stock on for one operating session, 60s for another.

[minister_for_hardship]

Mass market Hornby stuff in days gone by (and to an extent now) were sold as toys in their millions, most are next to worthless now.

The logic for buying IRM or AS or whatever you want to call it is similar to the older gents buying the aforementioned classic sports cars and bikes, they are top end products in limited numbers, they've got the spare cash and it reminds them of their youth. Probably a bit of speculation thrown in there too.

[Patrick Davey]

Am enjoying the suggestions and speculation here - it’s a great read!

Further musings from me:

* I don’t think that the location of the event necessarily indicates that something GNR will be launched.  The venue houses the priceless Fry collection, which represents virtually every single railway which operated in Ireland, so I think that makes it an appropriate location, whatever the new locomotive will be.

* Fran’s use of the word ‘ambitious’ is still the clue here - it could refer to a complex prototype, so the 800s might well fit the bill (anyone for a 3-pack boxed special edition?) or it might refer to the complexity of the project, in terms of the breadth of versions and liveries being made available, although that is pretty much the case with everything IRM/AS does, so I’m guessing it’s a complex prototype.

And just when you think I’m being uncharacteristically sensible, I’m going to suggest that as this year is the 150th anniversary of the opening of the Belfast Central Railway, perhaps we are going to be presented with a BCR train pack, limited to 150 pieces.

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Mass market Hornby stuff in days gone by (and to an extent now) were sold as toys in their millions, most are next to worthless now.

The logic for buying IRM or AS or whatever you want to call it is similar to the older gents buying the aforementioned classic sports cars and bikes, they are top end products in limited numbers, they've got the spare cash and it reminds them of their youth. Probably a bit of speculation thrown in there too.

We live in a changing age, both in model railways and in the bigger picture.

In model railways, the standards keep rising, and what was the 'must-have' loco 10/15 years ago is now superseded my new models, new manufacturers, new technology. What was once a highly sought-after model may no longer have the same value.

In the wider world, we're now in or approaching a position where disposable incomes are no longer growing, probably decreasing or soon will be. So the market for discretionary purchases like all collectables is decreasing. For model railways in particular, there's a boom generation who are now in retirement with more-or-less generous pensions, that probably represents a peak demand. Younger generations may look towards different hobbies and interests. The market for high-end models is probably close to its peak volume now, and if the demand shrinks then the prices plummet. We've seen this effect already with old railway books - some sought-after titles which 5 years ago were impossibly expensive are now surprisingly cheap. 

I'm not qualified to offer investment advice, but my view is that model railways are not a good long-term investment at present. By all means, buy a model because you like it and it will give you pleasure in owning/operating/modifying etc. There's also potentially money to be made in buying discounted models and selling on fairly quickly at higher prices, although increasingly marketplaces such as eBay are getting more greedy with their fees. But don't buy a model in the hope that it will be worth more in 10 or 20 years time!

Having said that, the high-end, small-run obscure niche models are probably the least bad speculation option in the model railway scene, especially if you keep them pristine while idiots like me rip them apart, modify and weather them to destroy their monetary value. So get your wallets out next week and BUY BUY BUY!  

[Horsetan]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

.... I’m going to suggest that as this year is the 150th anniversary of the opening of the Belfast Central Railway, perhaps we are going to be presented with a BCR train pack, limited to 150 pieces.

Will we set the timer going on this? Let's play County Down!

1 minute ago, Mol_PMB said:

.... I'm not qualified to offer investment advice...

The value of your investment can go up as well as down.