IRM v Accurascale

[ttc0169]

This is not a rant but an advisory…….

I write this having attended the model world live exhibition at the NEC Birmingham today and again tomorrow,

I also attended model rail Scotland last February,

I have noticed on both occasion's that the Accurascale stand does not have a section solely devoted to IRM products - past,present and future-granted there was the Hunslet,bubble cement and two axle vans on show - but no ICRs,Park royal or pre production 800 class steam locomotive,

As we all know the Irish scene is very much in the minority so I would have thought that in such a major UK exhibition circuit that the Irish products should be promoted more as there are quite a few UK modellers on IRM and are interested in the Irish scene. 
 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Not surprised Noel 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, ttc0169 said:

This is not a rant but an advisory…….

I write this having attended the model world live exhibition at the NEC Birmingham today and again tomorrow,

I also attended model rail Scotland last February,

I have noticed on both occasion's that the Accurascale stand does not have a section solely devoted to IRM products - past,present and future-granted there was the Hunslet,bubble cement and two axle vans on show - but no ICRs,Park royal or pre production 800 class steam locomotive,

As we all know the Irish scene is very much in the minority so I would have thought that in such a major UK exhibition circuit that the Irish products should be promoted more as there are quite a few UK modellers on IRM and are interested in the Irish scene. 
 

Not my place to question marketing strategies of a (thankfully) successful company, but that would seem a good idea.

The Irish market is minuscule. Many of what would seem perfectly logical models for IRM to produce are, on analysis, almost certainly hopelessly non-commercially viable. So any extra exposure has to be good.

From 1984 to covid, I worked on all but 3 of the annual RPSI May tours. The number of people each year from the 32 counties was almost never more than three quarters if one coach. The rest were almost all English. Not “British”; but specifically English.

IRRS London meetings have many ex-pats; but also many folks from Starmerland who just have a superb interest in Irish railways.

Its’s reasonable, therefore, to assume a significant interest in (domestic) Britain for Irish railways.

So, a spotlight on IRM itself should be a good idea?

 

 

[DJ Dangerous]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that any unsold 22000’s and Park Royals will be snapped up by the Irish market, so the A/S guys probably decided not to dedicate any space to them.

On the flip side, unless the likes of Hunslets, 800’s and Bubbles are featured prominently, growing the Irish-outline / IRM part of A/S is not going to be easy.

Maybe we’re at a point where Irish releases are going to slow down a little for a year or two while the post-Covid-19 market settles.

There was an explosion in interest in Irish outline during and shortly after the pandemic, but that bubble has now burst and a lot of the Covid era modellers have vanished.

As things get back to normal, and UK sales of Bubbles, Hunslets and 800’s mature, A/S will be better able to gauge future demand.

That said, I hope to Hell that they had an A Class and Ballast wagons on display, because A/S wouldn’t even exist today without them!

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that any unsold 22000’s and Park Royals will be snapped up by the Irish market, so the A/S guys probably decided not to dedicate any space to them.

On the flip side, unless the likes of Hunslets, 800’s and Bubbles are featured prominently, growing the Irish-outline / IRM part of A/S is not going to be easy.

Maybe we’re at a point where Irish releases are going to slow down a little for a year or two while the post-Covid-19 market settles.

There was an explosion in interest in Irish outline during and shortly after the pandemic, but that bubble has now burst and a lot of the Covid era modellers have vanished.

As things get back to normal, and UK sales of Bubbles, Hunslets and 800’s mature, A/S will be better able to gauge future demand.

That said, I hope to Hell that they had an A Class and Ballast wagons on display, because A/S wouldn’t even exist today without them!

 

[Mayner]

I guess 10 years after the launching of IRM the founders of IRM and Accurascale understand the limitations of the Irish Outline market and whether or not it was worthwhile to market Irish outline models on the UK Exhibition circuit. 

There is an interesting contrast between the rapid expansion of Accurascale from a start-up to a major British Outline brand over the past 4-5 years with a mixture of modern image, steam era and industrial models (locos and stock) compared with the more gradual expansion of the IRM range following the initial period of rapid expansion up to the release of the 001/A Class.

Interestingly while there were 93 and 96 responses to IRMs launch of the NIR Hunslets & GSR/CIE 800s respectively there are currently 1900 and 9800 replies currently to  launch of the Accurascale BR Class 50 & Class 37.

One of the IRM founders commented that their British Outline loco or wagon sold in significantly higher quantities than a similar Irish Outline model, possibly a 5-1 ratio, around 2020-21  Patrick told me that demand for Accurascale their British Outline wagons made IRM look like a cottage industry.

 

Edited Sunday at 03:55 by Mayner

[StevieB]

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Not my place to question marketing strategies of a (thankfully) successful company, but that would seem a good idea.

The Irish market is minuscule. Many of what would seem perfectly logical models for IRM to produce are, on analysis, almost certainly hopelessly non-commercially viable. So any extra exposure has to be good.

From 1984 to covid, I worked on all but 3 of the annual RPSI May tours. The number of people each year from the 32 counties was almost never more than three quarters if one coach. The rest were almost all English. Not “British”; but specifically English.

IRRS London meetings have many ex-pats; but also many folks from Starmerland who just have a superb interest in Irish railways.

Its’s reasonable, therefore, to assume a significant interest in (domestic) Britain for Irish railways.

So, a spotlight on IRM itself should be a good idea?

 

 

As one of those with a superb interest in Irish railways, I have noticed that the Accurascale website is not so easy to navigate when searching for Irish models compared to the old IRM website.

Stephen

[Colin_McLeod]

8 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

There was an explosion in interest in Irish outline during and shortly after the pandemic, but that bubble has now burst and a lot of the Covid era modellers have vanished.

 

Interesting observation. How is this information obtained?

[DJ Dangerous]

11 minutes ago, StevieB said:

As one of those with a superb interest in Irish railways, I have noticed that the Accurascale website is not so easy to navigate when searching for Irish models compared to the old IRM website.

Stephen

They fixed up the layout a few months ago. Agreed, it was awful trying to find stuff, but it’s now straightforward.

1. Click the three bars in the top left corner if on a mobile.

2. Click the “Irish” tab that appears. This is now prominently listed on the desktop version, not hidden.

3. Click the little upside-down arrow beside “Irish” and the headings appear.

Sorry about the language in mine, the English version should appear on your device.

 

 

[DJ Dangerous]

28 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Interesting observation. How is this information obtained?

Short answer?

Read the forum, and compare it to 2020 / 2021 / 2022.

Look how many members have vanished and how many layouts have been abandoned, along with the increase with collections being sold off or downsized.

Longer answer, search online for reputable sources publishing articles like this:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57425161

 

Here’s a quote from somebody who wrote about taking up chess during lockdowns:

”For the past few weeks, as the lockdown loosened, I’ve tried to spend more time hanging with friends and working on freelance writing projects. As a result, I’ve been stuck in the 800 range, with little to suggest that I’ll ever reach into the 900s, where the players are quite sharp. Something of a personal stalemate. No trouble, though. I thought it might be interesting to take some time away from chess.com, get out and interact with real people, maybe write something about those quarantined nights when chess enveloped me.”

There are thousands of similar publications online,

Source:

https://dashofmind.com/2020/07/25/many-experimented-with-hobbies-during-lockdown-i-descended-into-chess-madness/

Edited Sunday at 08:38 by DJ Dangerous

[Broithe]

Take yourself back to the year 2000 and imagine trying to convince people that Murphy Models and IRM would be there in the next few years.

We have been blessed with manna from heaven.

 

But, we do need to pop a bit in the collection plate occasionally for the altar boys...

[Tractionman]

Perhaps an indication of the differing levels of product interest can be gauged looking at rmweb and the Accurascale/IRM posts there and responses to these, the Hunslets have 5.6k views and the 800 class 5.5k views, both seem the highest of the Irish IRM products of late but the Banana Vans thread has 53.4k views by way of comparison!

Rmweb is mainly inhabited by UK based modellers, though not entirely of course.

Cheers,

 

Keith 

[Markleman]

I was at Glasgow show and I agree with Noel.

It would have been very easy to walk round that show and never notice that there was an Irish model in it. You could have walked past the Accurascale stand and not even spotted that there was an Irish element in it.

I reckon all it needed was branding. Like A SIGN. Something to catch the eye with the word IRISH on it. Something to catch pasing interest - people who might find a new different direction in their hobby. Something to show that these things exist.

We existing Irish enthusiasts might search it out, but those starting out would never have found things mixed in with no identification.

This is not about blackguarding IRM or Accurascale. It is about trying to generate a bit more interest in what is a small market. Even a bit more traffic through the stand could make a big difference to the survival of existing products and developing new ones.

[DJ Dangerous]

Big green banner with white IRM branding would be very eye-catching…

Probably cheaper than borrowing a 141 from Inchicore and trucking it to exhibitions!

[Warbonnet]

Hi folks,

Instead of slipping down the dark hole of conspiracy, there is some very simple explanations to this.

1. The 800 and Park Royals were being transported to the UK to me here in Dublin via a IRM customer for the Wexford show next weekend, hence them not being on display. We only have 2 800 samples, the other being with ESU to finalise the PCB. We have Hunslets and bubbles here, so were able to leave them in the UK for display purposes at the show.

2.  The ICR is also in ESU in Germany testing the electronics, hence was not on display. 

3. As seen in recent months, IRM is being folded into Accurascale as a brand.

4. If you see Accurascale at a show, you can be sure that IRM products will be on display at our shows. Whatsmore, our designer of those items will be on hand to discuss them with you and give you a great insight into them as products. 

5. The UK market by and large (97% of them) do not really care about Irish outline, but we always have some on display to show them what they are missing out on. 

On 27/4/2025 at 10:15 AM, Tractionman said:

Perhaps an indication of the differing levels of product interest can be gauged looking at rmweb and the Accurascale/IRM posts there and responses to these, the Hunslets have 5.6k views and the 800 class 5.5k views, both seem the highest of the Irish IRM products of late but the Banana Vans thread has 53.4k views by way of comparison!

Rmweb is mainly inhabited by UK based modellers, though not entirely of course.

Cheers,

 

Keith 

Exactly Keith.

End of the day, British show goers want to see British outline models. We cannot stress enough just how small the Irish market is. It's barely viable, and DJ Dangerous assessment of it slowing down is accurate. We have seen that over the last 18 months, and remember; it's not just IRM that we sell. Accurascale UK outline subsidises IRM. The more we sell of that, the longer we can continue to do Irish outline. Sales of Irish models is the biggest key though!   

I'm sure those of you who visit the Dublin shows, or see us at Wexford this weekend will not that there will be little or indeed no BR outline models on our stand, and only Irish models get promoted. In Ireland, Irish outline is our main focus of promotion. In the UK, it's British outline. 

On 26/4/2025 at 10:57 PM, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Not surprised Noel 

Sorry, could you flesh out this point please, and let us know your thoughts? I'm intrigued. 

Many thanks,

Fran 

[BosKonay]

On 27/4/2025 at 8:55 AM, StevieB said:

As one of those with a superb interest in Irish railways, I have noticed that the Accurascale website is not so easy to navigate when searching for Irish models compared to the old IRM website.

Stephen

https://www.accurascale.com/collections/irish-railway-models

Obviously we run this community (on a no ads basis) so very keen to here any thoughts on how we can make it simpler to navigate, or promote it better, bearing in mind that the IRM models are featured on the home page, the category has top line billing and we feature new Irish models in the sliders on the home also. It would be akin to us pushing French outline, or Belgian outline to a UK base too..

[Galteemore]

22 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

https://www.accurascale.com/collections/irish-railway-models

Obviously we run this community (on a no ads basis) so very keen to here any thoughts on how we can make it simpler to navigate, or promote it better, bearing in mind that the IRM models are featured on the home page, the category has top line billing and we feature new Irish models in the sliders on the home also. It would be akin to us pushing French outline, or Belgian outline to a UK base too..

If RM Web is our datum line as a heuristic of what UK modellers are interested in, you’ve actually more justification for posting French models than Irish ones. The French section on RM
Web has 27 pages of content, the Irish 21. Both dwarfed by North American section which has 156 pages……

Edited Monday at 16:38 by Galteemore

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

https://www.accurascale.com/collections/irish-railway-models

Obviously we run this community (on a no ads basis) so very keen to here any thoughts on how we can make it simpler to navigate, or promote it better, bearing in mind that the IRM models are featured on the home page, the category has top line billing and we feature new Irish models in the sliders on the home also. It would be akin to us pushing French outline, or Belgian outline to a UK base too..

 

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

If RM Web is our datum line as a heuristic of what UK modellers are interested in, you’ve actually more justification for posting French models than Irish ones. The French section on RM
Web has 27 pages of content, the Irish 21. Both dwarfed by North American section which has 156 pages……

How about a Spanish Railway Models subdivision?

Renfe 319.2’s go for way too much on eBay!

[ttc0169]

3 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi folks,

Instead of slipping down the dark hole of conspiracy, there is some very simple explanations to this.

1. The 800 and Park Royals were being transported to the UK to me here in Dublin via a IRM customer for the Wexford show next weekend, hence them not being on display. We only have 2 800 samples, the other being with ESU to finalise the PCB. We have Hunslets and bubbles here, so were able to leave them in the UK for display purposes at the show.

2.  The ICR is also in ESU in Germany testing the electronics, hence was not on display. 

3. As seen in recent months, IRM is being folded into Accurascale as a brand.

4. If you see Accurascale at a show, you can be sure that IRM products will be on display at our shows. Whatsmore, our designer of those items will be on hand to discuss them with you and give you a great insight into them as products. 

5. The UK market by and large (97% of them) do not really care about Irish outline, but we always have some on display to show them what they are missing out on. 

 

End of the day, British show goers want to see British outline models. We cannot stress enough just how small the Irish market is. It's barely viable, and DJ Dangerous assessment of it slowing down is accurate. We have seen that over the last 18 months, and remember; it's not just IRM that we sell. Accurascale UK outline subsidises IRM. The more we sell of that, the longer we can continue to do Irish outline. Sales of Irish models is the biggest key though!   

I'm sure those of you who visit the Dublin shows, or see us at Wexford this weekend will not that there will be little or indeed no BR outline models on our stand, and only Irish models get promoted. In Ireland, Irish outline is our main focus of promotion. In the UK, it's British outline. 

Many thanks,

Fran 

Thanks Fran and Stephen for your contribution,

Just on point 4 above….would it not make more sense to have one dedicated cabinet solely for the Irish models and not have them mixed up with the UK models at the UK exhibitions??

[Broithe]

I'm quite interested in Swedish models, or just Scandinavian, in general..

[BosKonay]

2 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

Thanks Fran and Stephen for your contribution,

Just on point 4 above….would it not make more sense to have one dedicated cabinet solely for the Irish models and not have them mixed up with the UK models at the UK exhibitions??

A lovely idea in theory but we’ve had to expand the stand size just to barely be able to fit the growing range of accurascale UK outline models and even then have to tightly limit display to in stock or forthcoming only. 

In simple terms we don’t have the space to dedicate. 

Obviously IRM is our spiritual home so to speak so we continue promoting and pushing where it makes sense (we won’t have accurascale cabinets at Wexford for example) and we have actually a logjam of irm launches to do now since the ICR and park royal delays. 

[ttc0169]

8 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

A lovely idea in theory but we’ve had to expand the stand size just to barley be able to fit the growing range of accurascale UK outline models and even then have to tightly limit display to in stock or forthcoming only. 

In simple terms we don’t have the space to dedicate. 

Obviously IRM is our spiritual home so to speak so we continue promoting and pushing where it makes sense (we won’t have accurascale cabinets at Wexford for example) and we have actually a logjam of irm launches to do now since the ICR and park royal delays. 

[NIRCLASS80]

I’ve noticed on YouTube for the time an Irish model video to hits 100 views a British outline model video will hit 600 views, and I push any British videos a lot less on Facebook etc. 

Having lived in England railways still have a massive interest level compared to being an oddball over here!

[DJ Dangerous]

3 hours ago, Broithe said:

I'm quite interested in Swedish models, or just Scandinavian, in general..

I just did a quick search for Swedish Models, and I can now understand your dedication to that area.

[Mayner]

15 hours ago, Galteemore said:

If RM Web is our datum line as a heuristic of what UK modellers are interested in, you’ve actually more justification for posting French models than Irish ones. The French section on RM
Web has 27 pages of content, the Irish 21. Both dwarfed by North American section which has 156 pages……

I was an NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) British Region member when I lived in England during the 80s & 90s, the British Region organised an Annual Convention and was divided into groups that organised local 'Meets' at regional level in the UK. The Meets and Conventions were basically private exhibitions often featuring modular layouts where members could bring and run their own stock (play trains), and a swap meet which included specialist American Outline retailers and second hand stands, the retail side usually best described as a feeding frenzy. At the time Victors (Islington) & MG Sharp (Sheffield) were major retailers, LSWR models a major mail order supplier, Totally Trains (Ross & on Wye) and Mac's Models (Alexandria nr Dunbarton),relative newcomers in the American Modelling the scene, not forgetting the Belfast Caboose and an American Outline retailer in Bodmin (Cornwall) & possibly others I have forgotten

Back in the 80s American Outline models N & HO models tended to be of better quality than British outline models in terms of finish, detail and smooth running major American brands like Atlas & Walthers moved their production from the US to Europe and eventually the Far East. The majority of American locos ran reliably out of the box and the major brands adapted NMRA wheel and track standards as there was a fundamental expectation among American outline modellers, that the different brands of locos and stock should 'interchange' reliably just like the prototype.

Going back to Scandinavian models, I hooked up with a lady of Scandinavian-Germanic origin over 20 years ago. Best described as strong minded put manners on most Irish lads, though most Irish and British people have some Scandinavian-Germanic DNA given the antics of our ancestors 1000 or so years ago.

Edited Tuesday at 07:50 by Mayner

[David Holman]

Having spent 20+ years helping run the Chatham Show, the word that best described many modellers is fickle. They like what they like, often to the exclusion of everything else. Comments like 'not enough N gauge/BR blue/GWR etc happen all the time. Perhaps the most extreme one was a trader showing me a very nice, ready to plant on the layout, greenhouse which a customer had just refused because it had no plants in it.

 Certainly sympathise with IRM, because such narrow views must make it difficult for any trader to know what stock to display/take to a show. I'll happily look at anything that is well made, interesting or just makes me smile. For example there was an amazing model of the Forth Bridge at the recent Ashford Show, built of Lego, with very recognisable trains running on it made the same way. Went back to it several times because it was so interesting and well done.

 Equally, much as I like seeing new products, I'm not going to buy them because I model to (very) niche standards, making most of my stuff from scratch, so it is materials, fittings and so on that I want most.

Pot, kettle, black?

Probably...

[Warbonnet]

13 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

Thanks Fran and Stephen for your contribution,

Just on point 4 above….would it not make more sense to have one dedicated cabinet solely for the Irish models and not have them mixed up with the UK models at the UK exhibitions??

Hi Noel,

Another way to look at it is; previously we had an IRM dedicated cabinet at these shows, and people hardly paid any notice. Now it is mixed in with Accurascale models which are more familiar to the average UK punter, it drew more eyes on them as they had a closer look at something "different". We definitely got more "what's that?" questions since we started doing it. 

Cheers!

Fran  

[leslie10646]

2 hours ago, David Holman said:

Having spent 20+ years helping run the Chatham Show, the word that best described many modellers is fickle. They like what they like, often to the exclusion of everything else. Comments like 'not enough N gauge/BR blue/GWR etc happen all the time. Perhaps the most extreme one was a trader showing me a very nice, ready to plant on the layout, greenhouse which a customer had just refused because it had no plants in it.

 Certainly sympathise with IRM, because such narrow views must make it difficult for any trader to know what stock to display/take to a show. I'll happily look at anything that is well made, interesting or just makes me smile. For example there was an amazing model of the Forth Bridge at the recent Ashford Show, built of Lego, with very recognisable trains running on it made the same way. Went back to it several times because it was so interesting and well done.

 Equally, much as I like seeing new products, I'm not going to buy them because I model to (very) niche standards, making most of my stuff from scratch, so it is materials, fittings and so on that I want most.

Pot, kettle, black?

Probably...

Exactly right, David - "fickle" is an understatement. Richard McLachlan and I ran a IRRS stand at Warley for about twenty years, but well-known IRISH enthusiasts just walked by, not even a nod. We had our "regulars" which made it worth the bother and "Brits" who had a look because we were different.

With my "commercial" hat on, modellers well known to me just walk past the PW stand as well - when it comes to hobbyists, tunnel vision is a common trait and people don't even glance at anything beyond their particular "thing'.

With my "bookseller" hat on, how I wish I knew what people were likely to buy on any one day - it would have saved carrying half a ton of books in and out of endless shows over the last fifty five years.

I'm as guilty - hence my snide comments about the narrow gauge, the infernal combustion engine (although this is real cant, as I have plenty of diesels on the layout), N gauge (except they are running big long trains which is what it's good for!), the list is endless. 

[Newtoncork]

Lads, I'm just happy that you are so invested in Irish modelling and have successfully set up a bigger business to subsidise it!

[Broithe]

I have suggested before that Accurascale is actually a money-laundering scheme that is necessary to keep the 'real thing' going in a practical fashion.

Success at Accurascale is maintaining future success for the primary, but smaller, operation.

Extracting money from the Big Island is essentially a furtherance of the War of Independence by other means.
 

Or is that too political..?

[leslie10646]

1 hour ago, Broithe said:

I have suggested before that Accurascale is actually a money-laundering scheme that is necessary to keep the 'real thing' going in a practical fashion.

Success at Accurascale is maintaining future success for the primary, but smaller, operation.

Extracting money from the Big Island is essentially a furtherance of the War of Independence by other means.
 

Or is that too political..?

Yes!

We are all brothers (sisters) now.

Give us time, we'll be back in Europe.

[raymurph]

2 hours ago, Newtoncork said:

Lads, I'm just happy that you are so invested in Irish modelling and have successfully set up a bigger business to subsidise it!

Well said.

[Warbonnet]

On 26/4/2025 at 10:57 PM, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Not surprised Noel 

Hi @Gabhal Luimnigh,

Still awaiting your feedback/fleshing out of this statement. 

Many thanks,

Fran 

[ttc0169]

Thank you to all the responses to this thread,

It was not ment as a criticism just an observation,

As most people who know me - I have and continue to support IRM by purchasing their products in the past,present and future. 
Long may it last. 
 

Kind regards 

Noel. 

[Mayner]

Having produced kits and rtr models for 15 years with marketing through social media, website and New Irish lines.

Sales of kits have been primarily been to a group of regular UK based customers by social media (mainly this Newsgroup). I suspect the majority are attracted to Irish Outline because its considered more interesting and challenging that modelling British Outline.

The majority of RTR sales were through my website, this Newgroup the most effective in terms of marketing. One of the quirks was that samples supplied to model railway clubs generated few sales, a member of one club commented that he 'could not see the point' of buying an Irish outline wagon while plenty of British RTR wagons were available at a lower price.

Interestingly used to get occasional enquiries on Facebook usually from the States requesting a valuation claiming that they had JM Design model trains from their childhood   

Demographic wise RTR sales broke down fairly evenly between Ireland & the UK----respectively 45% & 40% with 15% from USA with rest of the World marginal.

While Irish and UK customers tended to buy 1 or 2 items, US customers consistently tended to place larger orders.

When all is said and done Irish Outline is a tiny compared with the British and American outline markets and the IRM founders strategy of testing and establishing a presence in the UK market allows Accurascale to produce Irish Outline models.

From small beginnings Irish owned multinationals have become world leaders in building materials (Roadstone) dairy and food (Glanbia and Kerry) engineering consultancy (MF Kent) Construction (Laing O'Rourke) so why not model railways? 

Edited yesterday at 10:47 by Mayner