Tin vans, heating vans please

[leslie10646]

Provoked by a comment on another thread by @jhb171achill, I am going to start a "Crowd demand" scheme for someone to take up.

Virtually EVERY diesel produced by Saint Patrick and The Boys trailed four wheel vans around behind them at some point in their lives.

And lots of local steam trains!

I suggest that there is hardly a member of this forum who would not buy a ready to run Luggage Van, Heating Van double pack if someone would move themselves to produce it.

Come on you entrepreneurs - a pack with a simple luggage van and the Heating van variant for say €100-ish would fly off the shelves. AND you have several liveries to offer - what more could a manufacturer ask.

Members of the Forum - stand up and be counted - we won't get these important vehicles if we don't demand them!

 

 

Edited Sunday at 18:20 by leslie10646

[Mol_PMB]

I agree!

But I bought exactly such a double pack from John Mayne a couple of months ago! My next step is to build them.

Having said that, I would probably buy more if there was a good quality 21mm-friendly RTR model available, but I think that your suggested price point may be hard to achieve these days. 

[Crossley]

  Yes I to agree , I did mention the idea for producing a CIE tin vans when I had contacted Accurascale support regarding my Park Royal coach order back in October 2025 .

 It seems to me and "I know I am going to get burnt for saying this"  these would have been the natural follow on vehicle to produce with the Bullied wagons and to complement the Park Royal   coaches.

 There again after the IRM A class was produced, I though a C class diesel would follow too , but it does not seem to work like that . 

  

[Bob229]

Definitely would buy a pack to go with the IRM mk2b/c coaches

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Provoked by a comment on another thread by @jhb171achill, I am going to start a "Crowd demand" scheme for someone to take up.

Virtually EVERY diesel produced by Saint Patrick and The Boys trailed four wheel vans around behind them at some point in their lives.

And lots of local steam trains!

I suggest that there is hardly a member of this forum who would not buy a ready to run Luggage Van, Heating Van double pack if someone would move themselves to produce it.

Come on you entrepreneurs - a pack with a simple luggage van and the Heating van variant for say €100-ish would fly off the shelves. AND you have several liveries to offer - what more could a manufacturer ask.

Members of the Forum - stand up and be counted - we won't get these important vehicles if we don't demand them!

100% RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

[jhb171achill]

Not to be forgotten too, is the fact that mail trains in the 1960s often had two or three of the luggage vans in amongst a mixture of all sorts of other random vans, including a six-wheeled mail coach built in 1877 which ended its long career on the Sligo line about 1960!

The newspaper trains from Connolly to the north could also see several, with one detached at Portadown for the Derry Road. Yes, black'n'tan "tin vans" got as far as Great Victoria Street, Omagh, Strabane and Derry (Foyle Road). I would not be surprised if they got to Waterside via the NCC.

Sometimes you'd see one at each end of a train, so no need to limit them to one per train.....

[Mayner]

A few points:

Accurascale only announce an new model when its reached the tooling stage, potentially 12-18 months (for a coach) after making the decision to produce the model. 

So potentially a 12-18 month wait for Accurascale to announce a Tin Van even if they make the decision today.

While the idea of a pack which includes a Heating Van and a Luggage Van appears attractive to the potential buyer, a pack requiring two separate sets of toolings and production lines is likely to be less attractive (profitable), than a oack of 2-3 models produced using the same tooling and production line. While Accurascale are producing 3 distinctive versions of the CIE Pallet Van they are only available in packs containing a single variation (of end or door detail)

 

[DJ Dangerous]

Much as I’d love a few packs like this, I’d say that the price would be about double that mentioned.

if IRM / A/S were going to produce a very niche piece of rolling stock with tooling that can’t be used for much else, I’d prefer a Dutch Van or Mk1 GSV over anything else.

Of those two, a Mk1 GSV would probably suit IRM / A/S better due to the utility of the tooling.

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Much as I’d love a few packs like this, I’d say that the price would be about double that mentioned.

if IRM / A/S were going to produce a very niche piece of rolling stock with tooling that can’t be used for much else, I’d prefer a Dutch Van or Mk1 GSV over anything else.

Of those two, a Mk1 GSV would probably suit IRM / A/S better due to the utility of the tooling.

I tend to agree a Dutch or BR Van would be more appropriate/useful than a 4w Van for those modelling the 1972-early 2000s era.

While Dutch and BR Vans were used on trains made up of Park Royal and or Craven Stock, a modified air-braked version of the Dutch Van was used with the MK2 a/b coaches introduced during the 1990s long after the Tin Vans were withdrawn from service.

Modelling the 50-70s era in RTR form is bound to be more challenging because of the sheer variety of locos and stock in use and small size of the market/level of demand. Ignoring the GSR and pre-amalgamation coaching stock, Inchacore went through three distinct phases of coach design (some with multiple coach types) during the 50s and early 60s while BR built the majority of its coaches to the MK1 design

[leslie10646]

Quick reply to @Mayner. I agree that my price mark is low, also the point about the variants.

However, my suggestion sought to cover the two obvious gaps - the basic luggage van, which was everywhere for a decade at least and the heating van which was  also there for much the same period.

Only trying to help you guys.

At 80 I can't suggest that I have a personal interest, but if announced, my order would go in.

So what about the other 1,757 of you out there?

 

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, leslie10646 said:

Quick reply to @Mayner. I agree that my price mark is low, also the point about the variants.

However, my suggestion sought to cover the two obvious gaps - the basic luggage van, which was everywhere for a decade at least and the heating van which was  also there for much the same period.

Only trying to help you guys.

At 80 I can't suggest that I have a personal interest, but if announced, my order would go in.

So what about the other 1,757 of you out there?

 

I’ll take three, so only 1754 to go…

[Adam Berry]

2 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Quick reply to @Mayner. I agree that my price mark is low, also the point about the variants.

However, my suggestion sought to cover the two obvious gaps - the basic luggage van, which was everywhere for a decade at least and the heating van which was  also there for much the same period.

Only trying to help you guys.

At 80 I can't suggest that I have a personal interest, but if announced, my order would go in.

So what about the other 1,757 of you out there?

 

100% Silver/green ones to go with the new park royals??

[RedRich]

The BR GSV would make the most sense as there is the Weedspray coach that is needed to complete the Weeds pray wagon set.

[Patrick Davey]

Me too!

[cudf]

I do see Michael Brady posting these kinds of vans for sale on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/3208540152584491/user/100012327046204/

I've not purchased any so I'm not sure is he 3D printing them himself or respraying UK RtR models.

[skinner75]

Can't see that link

[Mol_PMB]

As far as I am aware, several types of heating van, both 4-wheel and bogie, have been available recently in 4mm scale. 

In RTR, the models have been of the more basic type such as those by Silver Fox, IFM etc., representing Dutch vans of both types, and I think the 4-wheelers. Good layout coaches but not to the highest level of detail.

Replacement sides are available to convert RTR coaches too, for both Mk1 and CIE bogie heating vans. They should be within the capability of many modellers. 

For a complete kit build, the JM Design 4-wheelers fit the bill. More experienced modellers can complete these to a high standard.

So what we’re missing is high-end RTR models to match the quality of the IRM coaches. Fine detail, multicolour paint jobs on an excellent surface finish, probably working lights. 

We already have basic RTR, and we have good kits and parts as the basis for modifications. There seems little point in crowding those niches. 
 

I’d probably buy several high-end RTR heating vans. In their absence, my preferred approach is to work with kits and conversions. 
 

So, absolutely yes please if IRM were to produce the 4-wheelers, or the BR or Dutch vans.
But given the very long gestation of the Park Royals, and their apparent disinterest in a goods brake van, I won’t be holding my breath. 
 

 

 

[BosKonay]

6 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

So, absolutely yes please if IRM were to produce the 4-wheelers, or the BR or Dutch vans.
But given the very long gestation of the Park Royals, and their apparent disinterest in a goods brake van, I won’t be holding my breath.

You know what they say about Assumption.  

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

You know what they say about Assumption.  

Assume makes a (donkey) of u and me? 

I’ll take one for the team and be a donkey if you make the vans .

[cudf]

37 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

Can't see that link

Sorry, may need to join the Facebook group first: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3208540152584491/

"Irish Railways Buy and Sell - Models & Accessories, Memorabilia & Books"

 

 

[flange lubricator]

For the most part the four wheel vans all gone by 1980 so most people under sixty wouldn't remember them in traffic the Dutch Van and the  ex BR Mk1 vans would be the ones most  people would be familiar  , would people be prepared to spend more money on a premium RTR version with lights  etc ?

[jhb171achill]

8 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Quick reply to @Mayner. I agree that my price mark is low, also the point about the variants.

However, my suggestion sought to cover the two obvious gaps - the basic luggage van, which was everywhere for a decade at least and the heating van which was  also there for much the same period.

Only trying to help you guys.

At 80 I can't suggest that I have a personal interest, but if announced, my order would go in.

So what about the other 1,757 of you out there?

 

I'd probably take 4 or 5.

Maybe 3D is the way to go for these.....

[Adam Berry]

2 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

For the most part the four wheel vans all gone by 1980 so most people under sixty wouldn't remember them in traffic the Dutch Van and the  ex BR Mk1 vans would be the ones most  people would be familiar  , would people be prepared to spend more money on a premium RTR version with lights  etc ?

As someone who is well under 60 and whos interests would lie within the "flying snail" and early "black n tan" livery era, id say if love one of these running around my layout! 

[Mol_PMB]

8 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

For the most part the four wheel vans all gone by 1980 so most people under sixty wouldn't remember them in traffic the Dutch Van and the  ex BR Mk1 vans would be the ones most  people would be familiar  , would people be prepared to spend more money on a premium RTR version with lights  etc ?

Only lights? What about the full-fat DCC sound version with the generator purring away and the boiler blowing off occasionally? Not to mention the steam effects percolating from the ends of the van. 

[flange lubricator]

49 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Only lights? What about the full-fat DCC sound version with the generator purring away and the boiler blowing off occasionally? Not to mention the steam effects percolating from the ends of the van. 

I was going to suggest a DCC one with sound ??

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

I was going to suggest a DCC one with sound ??

@BosKonay is now going away to recalculate the price. Might have to rise a bit from the EUR 50 each proposed above!

[derek]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Assume makes a (donkey) of u and me? 

I’ll take one for the team and be a donkey if you make the vans .

Don't think so @Mol_PMB. "Assumption is the mother of all f***  ups". That's what it was in my trade anyway

[leslie10646]

4 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

I was going to suggest a DCC one with sound ??

No, no, no. We want to keep the price manageable! 

Accurascale certainly has the ability to do these things, but keep it simple!

Sides, roof, chassis with wheels and couplings and a choice of a few liveries is what we want @BosKonay, please!

[Ironroad]

To help with the count, I'd buy tin vans in all versions and liveries.  

And for those for whom the period is too early, I think the TPO was repurposed for use on PW and weed spray trains in the '80s & '90s

[DJ Dangerous]

10 hours ago, BosKonay said:

You know what they say about Assumption.  

They say “Never assume without a url and a screenshot”…

On the topic of Dutch Vans:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/175122-orange-is-the-new-black-iconic-mark-2b-and-2c-coaches-announced/#findComment-4972313
 

 

 

[skinner75]

19 hours ago, cudf said:

Sorry, may need to join the Facebook group first: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3208540152584491/

"Irish Railways Buy and Sell - Models & Accessories, Memorabilia & Books"

 

 

Thanks, but I don't do Facebook

[jhb171achill]

14 hours ago, Ironroad said:

To help with the count, I'd buy tin vans in all versions and liveries.  

And for those for whom the period is too early, I think the TPO was repurposed for use on PW and weed spray trains in the '80s & '90s

Yes. There were only 4 of the "post office" types. All four were converted later. two as gennys and two as the PW things, one of which is now at Downpatrick. They were instantly noticeable by the fact they had three full sixed "carriage" wondows on one side and no windows on the other, as this side had full-height postal sorting pigeon-hole racks inside. So those vehicles are extremely niche indeed, and I would expect that if anyone did any production run of ANY of these late-era four-wheeled vans, the luggage vans and genny vans would be the way to go.

Liveries - silver, (later light) green with waistband, black'n'tan. 

When CIE were turning out new coaches, tin vans and the like in silver, some had the normal pale green numerals, and some had them in RED. I have yet to establish whether the difference related to different colours on different types of vehicle, or different eras (e.g. they try one, then don't like it, so from the Xth of Septober 195X they use the other colour), or was it just random! I suspect the date idea.

[jhb171achill]

On page 78 of "Rails Through North Kerry" (self + Barry Carse) we have a photo clearly showing one of the pair of "tin post office vans" that were converted to gennies in later days. You can see the (added) fuel tanks underneath.

If you don't have the book, ebay would need to be your friend; to Barry's and my delight, it sold out in no time. Neither of us have any spare copies left ourselves.

(As an aside; I have a few spare copies of "Rails Through Wexford" and "Rails Through Tipperary" here, normal price about €22-€25 / £20-£22; I will do either for €20 including postage anywhere in Ireland if anyone's interested).....

[flange lubricator]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

On page 78 of "Rails Through North Kerry" (self + Barry Carse) we have a photo clearly showing one of the pair of "tin post office vans" that were converted to gennies in later days. You can see the (added) fuel tanks underneath.

If you don't have the book, ebay would need to be your friend; to Barry's and my delight, it sold out in no time. Neither of us have any spare copies left ourselves.

(As an aside; I have a few spare copies of "Rails Through Wexford" and "Rails Through Tipperary" here, normal price about €22-€25 / £20-£22; I will do either for €20 including postage anywhere in Ireland if anyone's interestred).....

The picture your referring to is one of a de frocked 4W TPO's running as an ordinary van for a period in the late 1970s they were never fitted with generators as far as I'm aware.

[jhb171achill]

34 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

The picture your referring to is one of a de frocked 4W TPO's running as an ordinary van for a period in the late 1970s they were never fitted with generators as far as I'm aware.

There’s one with tanks….. maybe one was? I’ll see what pics Barry has.