Scots Mac's workbench

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, new to the forum. I've been doin a lot of converting of UK steam types to represent Irish steam lately. One of the easiest I've found to do is the Hornby Southern M7 0-4-4T to GSR/CIE E1 the solitary engine 279. I still have some work to do to this engine ,ie alter the cab opening ,and give it spectacle windows and safety valves and whistle etc., but already with some slight mods and a coat of paint and numerals she looks the part at a glance.Will not be 100% accurate of course but close enough ?. The paint is a dark Humbrol grey and the numerals are Fox transfers (English Southern) which look quite close to the Irish numerals. Cheers DAVY

Edited December 17, 2013 by Scots Mac

[Dunluce Castle]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

That looks fantastic, such a simple conversion, well done, I tend to model the LMS NCC (locomotive fleet stands at 3) but you've given me some ideas.

Thanks

Nelson

[BosKonay]

Lovely neat conversion and certainly looks 99% of the way there !!

[burnthebox]

Hi Scots Mac, is that the same model

In both pics as I noticed the GSR has no door compared to the279 Irish loco

BTB

Edited December 17, 2013 by burnthebox

[heirflick]

shes a little beauty! got this little girl a while back s/h on ebay with a view to doing the same copnversion..

 

 

shame to touch her though - she looks great as she is. really looking forward to your other conversions!

[Scots Mac]

Hi guys, the picture I showed of the original BR version is a more modern model as is yours by the looks of it heirflick. the model I actually used was an old version with moulded handrails which I've chosen to leave in place. What I noticed needs changed and did to my model was to shave down the sandboxes on the front wheel splasher.On the Irish E1/ 279 loco they are flush with the top of the wheel splasher and I also removed the brass safety valves from the dome and the other pipework on the top of the boiler. The cab opening needs altered and I don't think wthout major surgery this can be fixed to perfection but can be made more like the original. "Burn the box" you are right about the door. Like I say the whole cab opening needs re-worked which will get done shortly .Incidentally guys according to the infromation I have 279 was a one off.Originally she was an 0-4-2 and was the only one of her ancient class to be modernised and rebuilt as an 0-4-4. She lasted into the 50s. The E2 class looks similar too but I think the Hornby model lends itself more to the E1. Cheers DAVY

Edited December 17, 2013 by Scots Mac

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, heres one I'm working on at the moment with prototype picture and step by step progress pics. Having taken a great interest in the steam locos of the CIE I've been scouring thru online galleries and books and looking for engines similar to UK types readily available from proprietory manufacturers. I discovered engine 402.She was the only engine of the B2 type re-built with a flush running plate,all the rest of the class had split level running plates/walkways . I happened to notice that the old Hornby King Arthur class "Sir Dinidan" had a very similar style cab and had a similar longish front end. So I'd reckoned I'd buy a Sir Dinidan off ebay and have a go. I stripped all the detail off apart from the chimney then decided that it too wasn't right for the Irish engine so it got buffed off too. I kept comparing pictures then realised that the Sir Dinidan smokebox sat back from the front curve of the running plate whereas 402's smokebox hung over the lip so I razor sawed off the front end of the smokebox and and glued in two balsa wood extenders into the boiler barrel.Fortunately the inside of the hornby barrel moulding isn't round but rectangular so it was easy enough to extend the firebox with straight edged balsa. I never measured anything, 99% of the time I work by the eye. I only care that the models I do "look" about right when finished and capture the essence of the prototype, so if you're a rivit counter....look away now ha ha !!. Anyway I glued the smokebox front back on its new esimated position then filled in the space with body filler. I use "Chemical Metal" body filler by the Plastic Padding co. Great stuff. Sets very fast and is great for buffing and rubbing down and is very strong. So that was the boiler extended.Next on the agenda was a belpaire firebox which I made out of plastic card and buffed down to look approximately right. Strictly speaking it should tuck in tighter at the bottom but I decided it was near enough to satisfy me so that was that. I resurfaced the running plates with fine paper thin plasticard and wrapped the smoke box area with it too so that it stands out from the rest of the boiler barrel a bit as this is a chareceristic I noticed in the B2. I re-covered the cab roof with slightly thicker plastic to get the relationship between the belpaire firebox and the cab roof looking about right and buffed a bit off the back of the over-all roof lenth.Anyway guys the pictures attached will save many words. As it stands the loco requires a new chimney and steam dome and generally detailed up and painted. I'm not sure what tender it will get as yet. The original Sir Dinidan tender doesn't look like the B2's tender,but I'll see what Hornby or some of the other makes have out there and see if theres something close. Oh ...the wheel splashers ,I forgot about them. I made them out of plasticard layered then buffed to shape and glued on. They are cosmetic only as the hornby driving wheels don't actually come up that high but ...who cares ...like I say it is all about capturing the feel of the 402. I "think" its starting to get there. I'll keep you posted as things progress. Cheers DAVY

[UP6936]

Wow, you're fairly turning out locos at some pace! It looks great. I always thought that the 800s where the only 4-6-0s in Ireland. I think the rebuild you have done on the firebox is particularly good

[burnthebox]

Scots Mac that work is just mega, well done, pardon the pun, but your steaming ahead, watching this,

[Riversuir226]

Great job so far, looking forward to seen this progress.

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, I've got tons of stuff on the boil,been working away at various engines for weeks now , I'll get round to posting everything in time. "UP6936" have a look here, ,there were the 400s and 500 4-6-0s. I;ve already started chopping a replica railways LNER B12 which will I hope turn out a decent representation of 502 ,which co-incidentally was classed B12 on the irish railways. Anyway guys ...enjoy... Davy

[David Holman]

While cannot comment on the accuracy of the models re the prototype, they certainly look the part and that is a real tribute to your workmanship, in particular the quality of the final finish. Tempted to say with those standards, why aren't you scratch building in 21mm gauge?

Guess I already know the answer - time and output. And why not. Lovely stuff.

[heirflick]

this is the thread that i have been waiting for for a long time - the conversion to irish! another great choice there Davy. you make it look effortless! keep it commimg:tumbsup:

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, David (Holman) ,I'd like to have bought the studio models brass 800 class 4-6-0 kit etc.,etc., to support the home Irish market but I am not a metal worker at all so I stick to the mediums I am familiar with which is basically plastic,balsa wood, glue and body fillers,. I'm afraid I don't have the patience for finescale , though I greatly admire the guys who do and produce great models and layouts. Heirflick, I;m actually surprised that more Irish guys haven't got into the CIE steam era. Its similar to the British stuff but just that bit different and thats what I like about it. And the same applies to the modern diesel scene too. I have also been doing some modern-ish wagons to go with my Murphys diesels . And have been working away at an approximation of the Irish weedkiller trains. Anyway, I'll get round to that too eventually. I hack away at one project while the paint's drying or the glue's setting on another. I eventually get there though !! All good fun. Cheers DAVY

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, apart from my CIE steam projects I've also been looking for wagons for my Irish diesels to haul. As I'm mainly a loco fanatic I am not so interested in what they pull but I like things to look fairly realistic. I noticed the irish ammonia tanker trains of the recent past. I looked for a similar model and came up with the Lima bogie gas and petrol tankers. Now they aren't exactly the same as the irish tanks but I felt with a half decent paint job they'd look alright. They are continental wagons and had the railed platforms at the ends which I pulled off. I also pulled off the undercarriage detail and filled in beneath the tanks with fine plasticard. Gave them a paint job and applied orange adhesive tape along the middle. Not perfect but OK to my "selective" eyes for purpose. Next on the agenda for this project is a barrier wagon for either end to make the typical ammonia train.

[Georgeconna]

Goodness, those poor Southern Locos are taking a new life on all for a good cause. Could not bear to do that to my beloved Southern Engines.

[Scots Mac]

Hi George, I'm afraid I'm not sympathetic at all . I'm sure engines tremble when I take them out the box and they see the knifes,and razor saws etc.,etc.,...and no mercy is shown. makes no difference to me, ugly southern ducklings to beautifull Irish swans ...ha ha . Same goes for LNER ,LMS or whatever. DAVY

[Aussie Phil]

Brilliant modelling. Top notch. Wouldn't have thought to use balsa to pack the extension. Can't wait to see her completed

[scahalane]

Great bit of modelling. Looking forward to see how this progresses.

[Scots Mac]

Another project I'm working on is a 650 tank. I happened to notice that the Hornby LBSCR looked a bit like the GSR/CIE 650 class. Chimney and steam dome looked about the right shape and proportions,so after thinking a lot about the feasability of the conversion first, I finally bought one of the hornby engines off ebay. Anyway I'll let the pictures do the talking. I'm not particularly happy with the cab roof shape,but I can always pack it out again and re-work it and I still have a fair bit of work to do including fitting the trailing wheel. I picked the black colour scheme because the only colour picture I could find was of 673 in 1961 in black.These engines did work out of Dublin and were green but 673 as far as I can make out was the last one in service and obviously got a late steam-era black paintjob so I chose to model her. I have too many construction pictures of this model to post here so I'll just post a few to give you the gist of it.Last picture is the state of play at the moment.Still needs a fair bit of work yet though. .

[Kirley]

Wow! You must never sleep at the rate you are posting your conveyer belt productions. I am no good at looking at an Irish Loco and matching it to a British one and am delighted at the numbers you have identified. I will follow your thread with interest as I would be tempted to have a go at some of your conversions some day.

My concern in doing conversions is will they “run”? I have done wagons in the past which ended up as unsatisfactory and am wondering when you move into adapting Loco wheel layouts, getting them to run satisfactorily over points/curves could be a real challenge.

 

Please don’t take this comment as criticism of your projects. I think the work you are doing is innovative in both the methods and materials you are using. Looking forward to seeing the finished models.

[Scots Mac]

Hi Kirly, thing is ,in most cases theres no tampering with the running mechanisms so no reason why they shouldn't run. This model though is a wee bit of an exception because I have to add a trailing wheel which if not done right could cause problems going thru points etc., .On the other hand I could do what Hornby has done with some of their models ,ie remove the flanges on the trailing wheel and have it fixed rigid.That way its basically a cosmetic dummy. Re-building stuff doesn't scare me though. Plus the fact,I'm no paying hundreds of pounds for these models. Most are all 2nd hand off ebay. I actually dropped this model half-way thru the rebuild and smashed the front end clean off,but the great thing is glue and body filler can just about fix anything. In this case it did !! ha ha DAVY

[Garfield]

Threads merged

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, not got much done the last couple of days, waiting for dome and chimney castings to come thru from suppliers,however I did get a set of CIE tech drawings thru the post ,kindly sent to me by Alan O'Rourke for the 400 class including 402 which was a bit different from the rest of the class.I was pleasantly surprised how close I was with the "Sir Dinidan" conversion.Not perfect but far closer than I'd have thought. I re-painted her in grey on the advice of "JBH achill"

so thanks for the advise there, and even though she has no chimney, steam dome or any other fittings or decals yet I have to say I really like the plain all over grey. The tender is from the Hornby LNER B12. A bit short for the 400 class but it is fairly similar, I'm hoping to get a better tender match and am currently investigating all hornby and bachmann etc.,etc., tenders to see what I can come up with. Cheers DAVY

[Glenderg]

Davy, I kind of missed your thread through the fog of exams etc. but I'm really heartened to see someone tackling, what must be a daunting task, steam era in Ireland. Your efforts thus far are inspiring, and with the bauld JHB to assist, you can but be going in the right direction. To see so many on the forum of late, like Mike, Dave, Mayner, Horsetan, and others, who know their quartering from their crankpin, of which I don't, is absolutely superb. I've a happy collection of goods stock, but only one kettle to pull it all. Here's hoping for a donation of a broken/in need of love/not worth a shillin steamer from Santa Bracken to encourage me further! Richie.

[Scots Mac]

Hi Richie, well I'm havin a ball doin the Irish steam era. I'm lovin researching it and trying to find out facts about colourschemes etc. There are plenty close British models to work from as a base and with ebay it needn't cost an arm and a leg to buy second hand. So why not have a go?. between railtec, 247 developments,and Fox transfers etc., all the irish steam era decals/nameplates etc., are/will soon be available so why no ? Slainte !! Davy:)

[heirflick]

davy, when doing the 3 800 class 'queens' did you do much altering of the tenders that came with the loco?

[Mike 84C]

Hi Davy, how about the Bachmann GC/LNE tender? I did wonder if the new bachmann J11 might make a GSR J15a? but to chop a brand new model? thats a bit to brave for me! Which style chimney do you use? I found nothing that I found to be a good match to the Inchicore style thats on large engines and its very distinctive.

Keep them coming I"m enjoying your progress. Mike.

[Scots Mac]

hi guys as for the queen tenders I never used the original tendr tops at all I bought Hornby patriot tender tops and chopped and modified them.Ive seen Royal Scot conversions to the Irish 800s but to my eyes their unaltered original tenders defeat the visual illusion of an 800 and still look too British. These patriot tops also fit onto hornby motorised tender bases so there is the possibility in the case of converting Mainline rebuilt patriots or Scots which are loco driven to have both a powered loco and powered tender combination which would make them very powerfull units indeed. I havent tried such a combination as yet though so it remains to be seen if the mainline engines and hornby tender drives gearing run OK in tandem. At present I still haven't finalised my choice of tender base to use for the queens. If the twin poweredMainline/Hornby combination works I may just go down that road.I will do the experiment and report back.It certainly would make locomotives that would handle pretty much any train slung behind them. As for the J15 I've already bought two 2nd hand GWR Deans Goods locos for the job one by mainline the other by hornby (they are the exact same model) The Deans goods to my eyes almost look like J15s out the box but the tenders don't look right at all plus these engines are tender driven and ar way too slim and long.I notice that some J15s had tenders that were very much like the LNER B12 tenders so at present my plan is to try to get a motorised tender unit into a B12 tender for my as yet unstarted J15 projects. The two deans goods locos cost me less than £60 for the two. I'll let you know how I get on with these. As for Inchicore chimneys the nearest I see is LNER/B1/B12 I bought some old Cavendish brass chimneys off ebay yesterday ,so we'll see whats what. Two of the 800 class Macha and Teilte certainly sported single chimneys as photographic evidence shows in fact I dont think I've seen Teilte with a double chimney.Maeve and Macha definately had twin chimneys but Macha seems to have finished her days with the single chimney.My version of Teilte has a single chimney at present but its a stanier and its a wee bit high and makes then loco look a wee bit like a jubilee .I think an LMS princess chimney might be nearer By the way Mike I saw your 850 tank.....superb job you did on that. I fancy doin one too but in CIE lined green. There is a monochrome rear3/4picture of it in the GSR book clearly showing it in full lining like the 800 class.I really fancy that.Its a very smart engine. cheery the noo !! Davy

[Scots Mac]

Hi Guys, OK heres how I tackled the 800 tenders. The three locos I have converted to represent 800 B1a 4-6-0s were Rebuilt Patriots by Mainline. However the tenders that come with them just aren't right for the 800 class. I chose tender tops from the Hornby range. In this case from Hornby patriots. I bought them from ebay for £4 each. As I explained in my previous post I haven't made up my mind yet what tender base to use for these yet. The Hornby patriots were tender driven locos so these tender tops clip fit onto various Hornby powered tender bases and with modification will also fit onto mainline, etc.,etc., bases too. Cheers DAVY:-bd

[Dunluce Castle]

Fantastic job with the tender

[Scots Mac]

Hi Nelson thanks for that, just took these pics of one of the 800s (not finished yet !) if you compare it to prototype pics you'll see that the height of the tender is just about right in comparison to the loco cab and to my eyes says "CIE 800":) and not "LMS Scot or patriot":confused:. The tender base is actually a hornby motorised tender unit but I don't know whether I'll retain this or replace it with a non motorised base... the loco is powered too,I still need to see if they run well in tandem ,if so I'll probably twin motor all three of my 800s. If they don't I'll use non-powered tender bases and just leave them loco powered. Cheers Davy

[Dunluce Castle]

Hi Mac, I may not know anything about CIE locos (NCC fan:)me)

But your 800 looks very well done, superb paint job and lining, some real coal would top her off.

I would make the tender unmotorised, does the loco's motor run alright? If it does then there is no need for another motor in the tender.

Thanks

Nelson

[Scots Mac]

Hi Nelson, I intend to do some Northern Irish engines,in fact I've already made a start to two jeeps, and a 4-4-0.However the problem with the Northern Irish stuff for me is they look very much like the Scottish and English stuff I'm so used to. The GN blue colours are exactly Caledonian Railway, then theres Midland reds,LNWR lookin black etc,etc. The CIE stuff is just that bit different and sorry to say it but none of the Northern engines were as big or powerfull or as attractive in my eyes as the 3 Bredin 800s. As for twin motoring the locos it depends on how the two gear systems match up. If they do match up,granted the power may be overkill but for going thru pointwork etc,would be superb (when and if I get round to building a layout that is,hopefully next winter:trains:) Anyway all good fun .

Aw the best Nelson Davy

[Dunluce Castle]

A jeep, now we are talking, any pics? Please

 

I've made 2 U2s, 1 Y class and am about to start work on a U1 after Christmas.

Ill look forward to your future projects.

Merry Christmas

Nelson