Irish Shell & BP

[Mayner]

There seems to be at least 3 variations of the CIE 26695-26772 series CIE-Burmah tank wagon that I can see. The tank in the first image is shorter than the 20' wagon base with 12 support brackets where as the tank in the second image seems to be the full length of the 20' wagon with 13 support brackets. The tank in the 3rd image is similar in length to the 1st but with a different support cradle. Would anyone have any drawings of these wagons?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16532[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16533[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16535[/ATTACH]

 

Not sure where I got these images from so I hope the photographer doesn't mind me using them.

 

Most of the IE store oil and molasses tank wagons were originally built for specific traffic flows such as Irish Cement, Quigley Magnesite, Burmah Oil and possibly Texaco. Many of these wagons basically became surplus to requirements during the 1980s with the ending of the Irish Cement and Quigley Magnesite traffics.

The wagons were built in small batches 26570-89 Irish Cement 1966, 26628-31 Irish Cement? 1967, 26636-52 Quigley Magnesite?, 26723-26728 Burmah Oil 1972, 26720-26740 1978.

Most of the latter tank wagons including 26640, & the “Burmah” tank wagons were built on the standard 20’ container wagon underframes complete with cuplocks.

Originally the store oil wagons were numbered in the Departmental wagon number series similar to 629A, 26640 and 26748 appear to be ex-traffic tank wagons converted to carry store oil.

26748 is a bit of a mystery as 26740 was the highest numbered tank wagon recorded by Doyke and Hirch in Locomotives and Rolling Stock of IE & NIR 1987.

26748 appears to be one of the earlier Irish Cement tank wagons with an anchor mounted tank and no cuplocks. It’s possible that IE may have re-numbered some of the 26570 series wagons following a change in use from carrying heavy fuel oil to diesel or molasses.

Funnily enough I have a weight drawing of a CIE Fuel Tank wagon but it has the long tank barrel with 13 ribs similar to 26640

[scahalane]

Thanks John, great info. I would be very interested in seeing that drawing if you could manage to scan it.

[Riversuir226]

Theres a small bit of footage on here, some handy views of the unloading systems at ballinacourty.

footage of trains at 11/18/22-24/37-38/40/42-45 & 59 minute marks.

[Killucan2]

Tom,

Have the film with loads of A class and staff spl with 141s will be in touch with you to show soon .

[Riversuir226]

Tom,

Have the film with loads of A class and staff spl with 141s will be in touch with you to show soon .

 

Nice one Mark

[aclass007]

Theres a small bit of footage on here, some handy views of the unloading systems at ballinacourty.

footage of trains at 11/18/22-24/37-38/40/42-45 & 59 minute marks.

 

Some grand footage of the magnesite and oil train in that video! It even shows the last magnesite train pulling out of the factory. 011 had the honours of hauling the last load. It's only when you see the quality of the recording that you realise how long ago it actually is now since the factory was operating. The workers seem happy enough about the closure, if the images on the video are anything to go by. Thanks for posting it!

[josefstadt]

Going through old copies of the CIÉ staff paper Nuacht, I came across this photo in the January 1970 edition:

 

The caption reads:

‘Duckham’s Motor Oil frequently travels to Cork on the B+I Liner Train. The oil tank is secured in a special cradle which is locked in position on the rail truck and is lifted on and off in the same manner the ISO containers. Built by Metro-Cammell and owned by CIE, the cradle when empty tares at 1 ton 17 cwt: it is at present used only on the liner trains.’

 

Anybody any further info on this? It looks like the tank could have come from an old wagon and that the cradle supporting it fitted into and was secured to an ISO body (half height container without its sides?).

[dave182]

Just a thought, that Duckhams wagon looks a bit like the tanks that run on the weedspray train. They are on demountable ISO frames.

[DiveController]

Pic turned JHB

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16560[/ATTACH]/QUOTE]

From JHB's thread from North Wall 1977/78

Edited December 31, 2014 by DiveController

[Mayner]

Just a thought, that Duckhams wagon looks a bit like the tanks that run on the weedspray train. They are on demountable ISO frames.

 

Another little surprise it looks like the weedspray train tanks have Bulled triangulated ISO demountable frames.

 

 

It looks like CIE may have simply chopped off the running gear from some 1950s era anchor mounted tank wagons and grafted ISO cuplock pockets on to the ends of the existing underframes. The original wagons were fairly modern in design with welded tanks and anchor mounting compared to the Oil company owned wagons, but fairly low tank capacity.

 

CIE appear to have built relatively few tank wagons in the 50s most seem to have been originally for bitumen or industrial alcohol traffic from Ballina, Derry or Dundalk.

[Riversuir226]

Some grand footage of the magnesite and oil train in that video! It even shows the last magnesite train pulling out of the factory. 011 had the honours of hauling the last load. It's only when you see the quality of the recording that you realise how long ago it actually is now since the factory was operating. The workers seem happy enough about the closure, if the images on the video are anything to go by. Thanks for posting it!

 

Did you see Michael Wyses piece on the Waterford History facebook page?

[aclass007]

Did you see Michael Wyses piece on the Waterford History facebook page?

 

Saw it just now! It is me who was asking the questions on that thread. Thanks for letting me know anyway!

[jhb171achill]

I would be strongly inclined to agree, Mayner. As close as you can see on that picture of the Duckham's tank, it looks like it. New build tankers by then would have probably had an entirely different profile.

[Kirley]

Irish Shell - BP Tankers

 

Best detailed photograph of these Tankers I've come across. Belfast 1964.

Photo by Terence Dorrity.

 

[DiveController]

Lovely find, Kieran:tumbsup:

[patrick]

http://irishphotoarchive.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=81&_bqH=eJxtT9tqAjEQ_Rr3raAti1TIQzYz3U51kzYXJU.himDtQ8SK0H59M4u0S2sgJ.eSkzD35vj.1NpV3L_k.c1.er49NTm71dcnzSb13WwyHvMuSAmcEpu3bUXJgfQ4qpuuG9UgBgYAGwADK5bFJp_Fxr9V_F_F61VFPvaf.RIzUSZob2MiZ1gaS6hLRkazJJcsLlA6hIt8HmpnrBdW6nnVT5akBnEqPDi0iUAEnnp3WE_P68d8CLlES7I.yEWSLWoV.VKVVJOoPFyqFxp.qH34pR1Tqbz42L4eN7tq2bfbHhXjN14JcQU-&GI_ID=

 

 

I hope this link works. An nice photo of a tank wagon being loaded at Dublin port.

[Kirley]

http://irishphotoarchive.photoshelter.com/image?&_bqG=81&_bqH=eJxtT9tqAjEQ_Rr3raAti1TIQzYz3U51kzYXJU.himDtQ8SK0H59M4u0S2sgJ.eSkzD35vj.1NpV3L_k.c1.er49NTm71dcnzSb13WwyHvMuSAmcEpu3bUXJgfQ4qpuuG9UgBgYAGwADK5bFJp_Fxr9V_F_F61VFPvaf.RIzUSZob2MiZ1gaS6hLRkazJJcsLlA6hIt8HmpnrBdW6nnVT5akBnEqPDi0iUAEnnp3WE_P68d8CLlES7I.yEWSLWoV.VKVVJOoPFyqFxp.qH34pR1Tqbz42L4eN7tq2bfbHhXjN14JcQU-&GI_ID=

 

 

I hope this link works. An nice photo of a tank wagon being loaded at Dublin port.

 

An earlier version.

 

[Glenderg]

Is there a prototype wagon or piece of rolling stock you don't have Kieran!

[craven1508]

its fair to say , the man is a master!! lovely setting.

[Kirley]

Is there a prototype wagon or piece of rolling stock you don't have Kieran!

 

I forgot about these.

 

[patrick]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=&type=AllFields&page=229&view=list

 

Bitumen tank wagon from the O'Dea collection.

 

 

 

This is a representation of one of these wagons using a repainted Bachmann tank wagon. Trying to remove the factory lettering proved so difficult so I simply gave it an overall coat of matt black using a spray can. The outline of the Shell lettering can be seen in the photo but is not at all apparent on the layout. The tank ends are wrong, I may go back and change then in the future and the lettering is simply done on my printer on paper and applied with a glue stick. If SSM dosn't come up with a set of decals I may have to print my on on white decal paper! I doubt if the large Tar Bitumen lettering lasted long on the prototype so I lettered it similar to how similar wagons were lettered in the seventies.

 

The Bachmann model is also very similar to the fuel oil tank at Dublin port in my previous post although the brake gear is different.

[Kirley]

Patrick, may I suggest using a fibreglass brush to remove the factory lettering if you decide to do any changes.

[Rialto]

This is a great thread, I am glad I found it as I am trying to model the weed-spray train tankers at the moment. I am trying to figure out what I have three tanks in cradles made and painted yellow, but am trying to figure out what colour the frame/flat it sits on is. it looks to me to be brown/gray, looking at the video posted by Mayner on page 8, can anyone advise please? thanks again guys.

[Glenderg]

The weedspray tankers are possibly the oldest serving part of rolling stock left on the network, and derive from these wagons with the Bullied Triangulated Underframe. Effectively they cut the undergear off, placed them on 4 wheel 20/22' flats or 42's with a few iso mounts welded on, and off they went.

 

 

As far as colour is concerned, I think "dirt" is the shade yer looking for

 

[Mayner]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=&type=AllFields&page=229&view=list

 

Bitumen tank wagon from the O'Dea collection.

 

 

 

This is a representation of one of these wagons using a repainted Bachmann tank wagon. Trying to remove the factory lettering proved so difficult so I simply gave it an overall coat of matt black using a spray can. The outline of the Shell lettering can be seen in the photo but is not at all apparent on the layout. The tank ends are wrong, I may go back and change then in the future and the lettering is simply done on my printer on paper and applied with a glue stick. If SSM dosn't come up with a set of decals I may have to print my on on white decal paper! I doubt if the large Tar Bitumen lettering lasted long on the prototype so I lettered it similar to how similar wagons were lettered in the seventies.

 

The Bachmann model is also very similar to the fuel oil tank at Dublin port in my previous post although the brake gear is different.

 

Some of the Bitumen tank wagons were built by CIE incl 23826 which had the Irish brake gear others ncl 23855, 25002 & 25018 by Charles Roberts Rotherham with brake gear similar to the new Bachmann anchor mounted tank wagon. ESSO seem to have imported some more modern bitumen tank wagons along with its BRMK1 Class A & B tank wagons in the late 60s some were stored OOU in the Dardanelles until the yard was re-built around 2003. The MK1 bitumen tank wagons were similar to the Dapol tank wagon with a slightly larger diameter barrel & coned ends. The are likely to be photos of the originals somewhere on Paul Bartells web site

[Mayner]

CIE bitumen tank wagon Galway

 

Irish Shell pole fields Point Yard

Most of the older CIE & private owner tank wagons were stored near the Sherriff St level crossing for the best part of 30 years until the yard was cleared out around 2002.

[Mike 84C]

Tanks for carrying and storing bitumen would be insulated, probably with the dreaded asbestos, and the visible external skin is only thin sheet metal. The tanks normally had internal steam coils to heat the bitumen keeping it fluid and the external parts of these pipes were lagged with asbestos tape wound on like a bandage, or a thicker type that had its own metal cover. The HSE regs; for handling bitumen are quite extensive!

Mick

[DiveController]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612/Home?lookfor=&type=AllFields&page=229&view=list

 

Bitumen tank wagon from the O'Dea collection.

The O' Dea shots are amazingly clear and you can see the cap on what I'm presuming is a filler/discharge pipe? under the chassis on both sides, T'd into the tank above. One of the O' Dea pictures has the hose attached on 25008 and warning signs of the thin shell on 25009. Where were the heating coils and what supplied steam when they were in transit?

[Mayner]

Nice find I have HMRS photos of three of these tank cars23855,25002 & 25018 on standard gauge transporter wagons in the UK .23855 has the thin shell plackard for the dockers slinging the wagons at the port.

 

The steam coils are inside the tank, heat is only applied during unloading. CIE & the County Councils built boiler houses at the unloading points.

[DiveController]

Nice find I have HMRS photos of three of these tank cars23855,25002 & 25018 on standard gauge transporter wagons in the UK .23855 has the thin shell plackard for the dockers slinging the wagons at the port.

 

The steam coils are inside the tank, heat is only applied during unloading. CIE & the County Councils built boiler houses at the unloading points.

Thanks, John. Were they filled from above and discharged from the pipes beneath?

[Weshty]

If SSM doesn't come up with a set of decals I may have to print my on on white decal paper!

 

I've completed a set of TAR BITUMEN. large and small versions and the four numbers with the "not to be loose shunted" detail as well . Drop me a line for the order.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Weshty

[Buz]

Hi all

Looking at this thread I get the impression that crude though they may be by today's standards.

That Hornby Dublo two rail tinplate tankers could possibly be used as Irish oil tankers.

Is that a correct assumption I am only basing it on the pictures I know some one used to or does do a modern metal replacement wheel for them and someone does the wheel clip as they can fly or break due to age

Not sure how you would deal with the coupling issue. something for the 3D experts to think about ??

But they would make a rather satisfying noise over the rail joints and points and in-spite of the crudeness they do have a railway like feel to them.

regards John

 

[DiveController]

There are several different tank wagons in this tread. Which Dublo tanks are you referring to? is there a link photo?

The weed spray train provide you with a 42 flat triple pack and 5 tanks that need a chassis, maybe a Dapol which they could be mounted on but depends what you're trying to model

 

[jhb171achill]

On ‎12‎/‎01‎/‎2014 at 11:14 AM, josefstadt said:

I came across this photo of the small shunter which worked the Irish Shell & BP depot on the North Wall in Dublin. The loco has two axles and an extremely short wheelbase, but apart from that I have no further details (builders, engine type etc). Does anyone know more about this locomotive and what became of it? I think that the photo was taken in the late 60s or early 70s at a time when one could wander down the North Wall on a Sunday with a camera and not be bothered by port security concerns.

Planet / Hibberd 1951, used all its 20-odd years at Alexandra Road Oil Terminal in Dublin. Acquired by the RPSI in the 1970s and spent the next 20 years shunting at Whitehead. Still there, but out of traffic for about 20 years. Would need very major work to get it going again, and it's of very limited use.

[Andy Cundick]

Its available as a kit  in 4mm from Noneminstre .Andy.