Decoder identification by Manufaturer ID + VER

[Noel]

Hi Folks

 

Could anybody please direct me to website which might allow me to identify decoders by their manufacturer ID "plus" their decoder version number. I know about the NMRA manufacturer list http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/appendix_a2c_s-9.2.2.pdf I can get both the ID and VER numbers using the programming track for locos that have unknown decoders.

 

But I cannot find any resource that maps decoder version numbers to specific decoder products.

 

I know basic Bachmann decoders (rebadged ESU lokpilot basic) are ID 151, but can't find which versions 088 or 089 map to 36-553 and 36-554 decoder products. Similarly the later Bachmann decoders (rebadged soundtrax) are ID 141, but not sure if version 081 is the 36-557 decoder. Likewise it would be nice to be able to identify Hornby decoder products.

 

Many thanks

 

Noel

[burnthebox]

Hi Folks

 

Could anybody please direct me to website which might allow me to identify decoders by their manufacturer ID "plus" their decoder version number. I know about the NMRA manufacturer list http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/appendix_a2c_s-9.2.2.pdf I can get both the ID and VER numbers using the programming track for locos that have unknown decoders.

 

But I cannot find any resource that maps decoder version numbers to specific decoder products.

 

I know basic Bachmann decoders (rebadged ESU lokpilot basic) are ID 151, but can't find which versions 088 or 089 map to 36-553 and 36-554 decoder products. Similarly the later Bachmann decoders (rebadged soundtrax) are ID 141, but not sure if version 081 is the 36-557 decoder. Likewise it would be nice to be able to identify Hornby decoder products.

 

Many thanks

 

Noel

 

Noel, was it the CIA or the KGB you worked for in you Spare time.

[Noel]

Noel, was it the CIA or the KGB you worked for in you Spare time.

 

Perhaps both but in reality for a 3rd party.

[WRENNEIRE]

Irishthump of this parish might be your man, Noel

Clever little chap for a drummer.......

[irishthump]

Irishthump of this parish might be your man, Noel

Clever little chap for a drummer.......

 

Thanks...I think!

 

The trouble with this is that some manufacturers publish comprehensive lists of their version numbers and some don't. This link might help you:

 

http://jmri.sourceforge.net/xml/XSLT/pages/DecoderId.html

 

It's incomplete and some of the info may be out of date but it's a start.

[WRENNEIRE]

While I have you there Thumper

I have some chips that came from locos that were chipped but the buyer wanted them DC

How do I find out what the previous address was to reprogramme them

I use a Power Cab Pro, it has aprogramme track.

Well I have one, I dont use it very often

[irishthump]

While I have you there Thumper

I have some chips that came from locos that were chipped but the buyer wanted them DC

How do I find out what the previous address was to reprogramme them

I use a Power Cab Pro, it has aprogramme track.

Well I have one, I dont use it very often

 

Well you can either put them into a loco and read back the address on the programming track or you can just reset them by writing 8 to CV 8 which will set them back to default which is address 3.

[WRENNEIRE]

So how do I read back the address?

DCC for Dummies was sold out in Easons

[murrayec]

So how do I read back the address?

DCC for Dummies was sold out in Easons

 

Wrennie

 

You put your right hand over your left eye and turn clockwise 3 times, best to do in an area with no obstructions just in case you feel a bit dizzy!

 

Eoin

[WRENNEIRE]

Thats it Dortish?

5 years in college on my tax dollars.......

[irishthump]

While I have you there Thumper

I have some chips that came from locos that were chipped but the buyer wanted them DC

How do I find out what the previous address was to reprogramme them

I use a Power Cab Pro, it has aprogramme track.

Well I have one, I dont use it very often

 

You've got me there... I don't know the process for programming with the Powercab. That's the thing, it's different for every DCC system.

[BosKonay]

With the loco or decoder on the prog track

 

- press prog four times

- press enter

- press 1

- press enter

 

You should now see the set address.

[irishthump]

With the loco or decoder on the prog track

 

- press prog four times

- press enter

- press 1

- press enter

 

You should now see the set address.

 

And there you have it!

[Noel]

With the loco or decoder on the prog track

 

- press prog four times

- press enter

- press 1

- press enter

 

You should now see the set address.

 

Exactly as Stephen said. NCE steps below to view OR set short (1-127) or long loco address (128-9999).

 

Edited February 17, 2015 by Noel

[DiveController]

Thats it Dortish?

5 years in college on my tax dollars.......

You paid tax dollars, not punts or euro?

[WT CLASS 2-6-4T No. 4]

You paid tax dollars, not punts or euro?

 

No men of that era paid in LSD, pound shillings and pence.

[minister_for_hardship]

No men of that era paid in LSD, pound shillings and pence.

 

Trippy.

 

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/no-i-havent-seen-your-lsd.jpg

[WRENNEIRE]

Just wasted half an hour pressing buttons

Got all the info above but I still cannot get the loco to run on the old address or else programme a new one

Tried it on a couple of locos so I seem to have a problem, Heuston?

Has anyone actually found out the old address for a chip using this info?

[Garfield]

Just wasted half an hour pressing buttons

Got all the info above but I still cannot get the loco to run on the old address or else programme a new one

Tried it on a couple of locos so I seem to have a problem, Heuston?

Has anyone actually found out the old address for a chip using this info?

 

Any chance there's a problem with the controller?

[BosKonay]

Does it read the address back from the decoder on the prog track?

 

If it does it should then control that loco back on the main.

[Noel]

Hi Dave

 

When you press Prog/ESC button four times to select "Use Program Track" and then press 1 do you see a message like the pic below?

 

 

After a few seconds that message should change to something similar to this one but with a different number.

 

 

If the display did not change then there is a problem (i.e. no manufacturer ID is displayed)

• Wiring to "programming/test track" from the NCE box
  
• A fried decoder on the loco
  
• A problem with your NCE controller - most unlikely if it can drive other locos
  

 

If the display did change to the second image, then press ENTER button twice and follow the sequence on the other post I made to read back what the decoder address is, or to change.

[WRENNEIRE]

Any chance there's a problem with the controller?

I ran a sound 141 on the main track and it worked fine

Going to drag them down to the MRSI this evening and see if there is anyone there that might know something about them

(Have to wake them up first)

We use Gaugemaster controllers so should be somewhat similar to the Power Cab

[irishthump]

I ran a sound 141 on the main track and it worked fine

Going to drag them down to the MRSI this evening and see if there is anyone there that might know something about them

(Have to wake them up first)

We use Gaugemaster controllers so should be somewhat similar to the Power Cab

 

It's a much simpler process with the Gaugemaster controller but you need a programming track.

[WRENNEIRE]

Noel

Got both of those readings

In your previous post, and thanks for the help by the way, I got the same reading at #5, decoder ver : 089

Going back up men, if I'm not back in 10 mins let the dogs loose....

[WRENNEIRE]

No Joy!

Going to do something that I know I can do

Peel the spuds!

I will tell you how I got on later

I think we have a yoke that will test your chip, must try and root it out

[jhb171achill]

The more spuds you peel, the more chips, Wrenn!

[WRENNEIRE]

JB, I do the jokes here

Stick to you paint colours

[Broithe]

These dogs they're to let loose, have they been chipped..?

[jhb171achill]

Correct livery for chips, Wrenn........

 

Ok, I'm running for me bus now.

[Noel]

Noel

Got both of those readings

In your previous post, and thanks for the help by the way, I got the same reading at #5, decoder ver : 089

Going back up men, if I'm not back in 10 mins let the dogs loose....

 

OK that's positive. The test track is working, the decoder is responding and the NCE controller is working. Now just need get steps 6 through 9 working for you. As suggested the easiest is to reset the decoder on the programming/test track by writing 8 to CV8 which will give the decoder the default address of 3. Then test drive the loco by selecting address 3, and if that works then back to the programming track to give the decoder the address you would like it to have.

 

• Addresses in the range 1-127 are short addresses and can be setup using steps 6+7
  
• Addresses in the range 128-9999 are long addresses and can be setup using step 9 (and 10 not shown)
  
• 
  

 

After you enter an address you are give the option of activating it by pressing 1. So if you press PROG/ESC after activating a short address then it is active, but if you continue on to step 9, enter a long address and then activate it by pressing 1, you have a long address (i.e. even though you already entered a short address in an earlier step, but it is ignored if you activate the long one).

 

As a former software designer I find all of the DCC systems have a rather awkward and jurassic user interface that is hardly friendly. The ECOS at least makes a decent stab at making all this guff a bit more user friendly, but jeapers we've been living in a smartphone era for 7 years now and the DCC manufacturers are still living in the MS-DOS era of the early 90s. Technology should be invisible and intuitive. Believe it or not NCE is supposed to be one of the less cumbersome old style system to configure. DCC needs a redesign and a new NMRA spec - it is jurassic. All of this stuff should be setup using smartphones and tablets instead of expensive dedicated and proprietary hardware.

[irishthump]

As a former software designer I find all of the DCC systems have a rather awkward and jurassic user interface that is hardly friendly. The ECOS at least makes a decent stab at making all this guff a bit more user friendly, but jeapers we've been living in a smartphone era for 7 years now and the DCC manufacturers are still living in the MS-DOS era of the early 90s. Technology should be invisible and intuitive. Believe it or not NCE is supposed to be one of the less cumbersome old style system to configure. DCC needs a redesign and a new NMRA spec - it is jurassic. All of this stuff should be setup using smartphones and tablets instead of expensive dedicated and proprietary hardware.

 

Have to say the Gaugemaster Prodigy is dead simple, that's why I chose it in the first place. I had watched several videos showing how to programme with systems like the Powercab and Digitrax and it's seems needlessly complicated.

[murrayec]

 

After you enter an address you are give the option of activating it by pressing 1. So if you press PROG/ESC after activating a short address then it is active, but if you continue on to step 9, enter a long address and then activate it by pressing 1, you have a long address (i.e. even though you already entered a short address in an earlier step, but it is ignored if you activate the long one).

 

As a former software designer I find all of the DCC systems have a rather awkward and jurassic user interface that is hardly friendly. The ECOS at least makes a decent stab at making all this guff a bit more user friendly, but jeapers we've been living in a smartphone era for 7 years now and the DCC manufacturers are still living in the MS-DOS era of the early 90s. Technology should be invisible and intuitive. Believe it or not NCE is supposed to be one of the less cumbersome old style system to configure. DCC needs a redesign and a new NMRA spec - it is jurassic. All of this stuff should be setup using smartphones and tablets instead of expensive dedicated and proprietary hardware.

 

Hi Noel

 

You should get yourself a SPROG computer interface and do your chip programming on the computer, using the JMRI Decoderpro software. It's still a little DOS like with a Windows interface but closer to using smartphone tech.

 

It's very handy having all the options at a click of the mouse and not having to button walk through multi menu screens!

 

There are other tools in Decoderpro....

 

Eoin

[WRENNEIRE]

Gaugemaster did it in 4 steps

Read it back no sweat

And half the price of a power cab

[Noel]

Thanks Eoin I have JMRI. As you say its rather clunky but if you have to setup more than one or two decoder settings its easy to do compared with using the limited interface of a cab unit. It saves a lot of time setting up speed curves. The main reason I have JMRI is so I can use an old iPhone and iPad as zero cost wireless DCC cabs for walking around the layout (i.e. WiThrottle app). The app also allows clear labelling of function buttons which is great for sound equipped locos.

 

As to DCC systems, yes the MRC/Gaugemaster is a great system. I nearly went with it when switching to DCC last year but narrowly opted for the NCE because the cab ergonomically lended itself a little better to one handed use, and was a 5amp system. Being an IT bod I wasn't really concerned about the system programming interface, more of the ergonomics of driving trains once a system was setup. The NCE cabs lcd display gives good visual feedback of speed, functions in operation, direction, etc. I was drooling over ESU's fabulous Ecos 50200 system and its fabulous user interface, but didn't like the fixed games console size of the twin cab controller and the savage cost of their hand held cabs. NCE's basic cabs (e.g. cab04, cab05, etc) are truly hideous dating from late 1970s hobby electronics), but their power/pro 'dog bone' cabs like the MRC/Guagemaster appealed to me.

 

IMHO, the future of DCC controller interfaces is with wireless smartphone and tablet interfaces and all of the vendors need to up their game from their dated ergonomics. The technical side of DCC should be buried under plain english smart user interfaces, and words like CV, BEMF, long loco addresses, should be unknown and invisible to users. If you want to turn up the volume of a sound equipped loco there should be a volume knob or slider bar, not a CV to be set.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Noel

[Noel]

A basic list of DCC systems with very approximate street prices. Most of the European gear like Lenz, Roco, ESU and Zimo are usually better priced in Euro zone than from uk suppliers.

 

 

It looks like many manufacturers will end up with black box systems controlled from smartphone/tablets (or PC ughh). But IMHO the one thing missing from a touch screen interface is the tactile feel of a throttle control without having to look at the screen. Ideally one should be able to hold and operate a cab/phone single handed and without having to look at it for throttle control.

 

Ok we have drifted a bit of the original question, but it seems there is no comprehensive list of decoders that matches ID/VER numbers, only IDs. JMRI makes a stab at it but is hit and miss. For instance it cannot distinguish or identify a Bachmann 36-553 from a 36-554 decoder. Looks like decoder manuals is the only method of getting version numbers. Anyway its been an interesting thread.

[burnthebox]

Hi guys, I have been reading this over the past half hour ( cannot understand how I missed it ) & I'm totally gobsmacked at the knowledge of you guys regarding DCC, I'm saying right now I haven't a clue as to what cv's or all the other stuff you guys refer to on the tread, but no matter, the other thing I think I noticed was the no reference to the Hornby Select or Elite, anyone care to comment on these, thanks in advance