From the Catacombs

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

I think this one is Clipperstown 

 

Yes, it is Clipperstown. I think he renewed that bridge.

 

[jhb171achill]

By way of completely random "lucky dip", from Senior's stuff:

Tank loco on an Albert Quay - Glanmire transfer, and a Dublin & Blessington wagon body in a field outside Blessington in the 1930s, still with D & BST markings.

Interesting pointwork in Albert Quay in 1950 or thereabouts, and some nice signals as a backdrop to an equally nice BCDR 4.4.2T in 1947.

Edited March 20, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

Nice shot of 16. Hard to believe that something so elegant was built as late as 1945.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

Nice shot of 16. Hard to believe that something so elegant was built as late as 1945.

Just as hard to believe when he took a pic of it, it was brand new!

[Patrick Davey]

Superb thanks JB!!  My favourite is the NCC railcar at Desertmartin.

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Plus a few random C & L ones from about 1935. He saw No. 1 "Isobel" still sporting very badly worn-out C & L lined green livery. I think she was the last C & L loco to be painted grey.

 

Interesting contrast between the C&L in GSR days with reasonably clean locos well maintained stock and infrastructure and run down CIE condition.

It looks like Leyden's Coal Screens and loading plant may have been built on the foundations of the Arigna Iron Works dating from the early 1800s with later additions in concrete and corrugated sheet 

 

Some of the buildings were roofless by the mid-late 50s with the roof sheets but not framing removed from the large concrete building on the right and the 'lean to building beneath the ropeway.

[jhb171achill]

DSER / DWWR MATERIAL

While searching for something unrelated, I came across the following, which I thought might be of interest given a recent “uptick” in interests of a south-eastern nature.

The first is the October 1923 DSER Working Timetable, introduced after a period of severe political unrest in that area. 
 

Remember to get your DWWR / DSER wagons from KMCE (No, I’m not on the payroll, just a satisfied customer!).

I have omitted Bray to Amiens St., and Harcourt St. - Bray, as it runs to many pages!

[jhb171achill]

The second one is from a DWWR WTT from 1894, when they issued a new one every month! (I have all 12).

Note that neither the New Ross - Waterford line, nor the (separate company) South Wexford line have been built - and look where the DWWR  trains over the North Wexford end up!

[jhb171achill]

Forgot to add, note also the short workings Palace East - Ballywilliam (wonder if passenger numbers ever exceeded single figures?) and Palace East - Bagenalstown.

Another example of an "old" company's trains operating over the lines of a different company, as per a recent discussion in a separate thread.

[Mayner]

10 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Forgot to add, note also the short workings Palace East - Ballywilliam (wonder if passenger numbers ever exceeded single figures?) and Palace East - Bagenalstown.

Another example of an "old" company's trains operating over the lines of a different company, as per a recent discussion in a separate thread.

It looks like Ballywiliam was the frontier station between the GSWR & DWWR systems at least up to the mid 1890s as Bagenalstown-Ballywilliam is shown as GSWR and Ballywilliam-Palace East as DWWR in the Timetable. 

Through passengers may have been required to change trains with a wait of between 5 and 44 minutes between arrival and departure at Ballywilliam.

The timetable works in comfortably with a single loco and train set from Bagenalstown working the 09:22-10:06 & 12:00-12:55 services to Ballywilliam and 10:45-11:31 and 3:26-4:03 return workings.

The DWWR appears to have operated its connection with a New Ross based loco which started its day with an 09:55 mixed to Palace East before connecting with the 09:55 Macmine Junction-New Ross before working the 10:20-10:30 Palace East (PE)-Ballywilliam (BW)Pass, 10:50-11:10 BW-PE Pass, 12:10-12:20 PE-BW Mxd, 1-1:10 BW-PE Pass, 3:16-3:26 PE-BW Pass-3:40-3:50 BW-PE Mxd. 4:00-4:20 PE-New Ross Mxd.

It looks like the New Ross loco crew would have had a busy day shunting at Ballywilliam and Palace East and shuttling up and down between the two stations, Ballywillian was the sole interchange between the DWWR and the rest of the Irish Railway system up to the opening of the Loop Line in 1891 potentially with a reasonable level of interchange traffic from Mills and other industries in Wexford, Enniscorthy and New Ross.

It looks like the GSWR and DWWR/DSER later came to an agreement for the GSWR to work through to Palace East, the Bagenalstown-Palace East line having lost any strategic importance (keeping the GSWR out of Wexford) with he opening of the South Wexford Line and the DSER having completed it line to Waterford and acquired running powers over the GSWR to Limerick.

Still an 1890s Ballywilliam would make an interesting model small station, two competing companies, small locos short trains and distinctive liveries.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

Still an 1890s Ballywilliam would make an interesting model small station, two competing companies, small locos short trains and distinctive liveries.

Very true, with, for variety a “stray” MGWR, GNR & WLWR goods van in amongst everything……

I believe J15s ruled the roost in that area, including the whole Waterford - Macmine route after the amalgamation.

[Mayner]

7 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Very true, with, for variety a “stray” MGWR, GNR & WLWR goods van in amongst everything……

I believe J15s ruled the roost in that area, including the whole Waterford - Macmine route after the amalgamation.

I was thinking of Ballywilliam as an interesting inspiration for a model in terms of the 1890s or earlier when it operated as a double ended terminus operated by the GSWR and the DWWR before the GSWR started running through to Palace East. The run round loop turntable and loco spur removed in later years, with a single ended siding remaining for goods traffic/sugar beet.

I was thinking mainly in terms of an achievable project using handlaid track, scratchbuilt building, structures locos and stock, not unlike a contemporary Castle Rackrent which started out as a small branch line terminus, two locos, 2 coaches and several wagons before growing into a large system layout.

The GSWR appears to have operated the Bagenalstown-Ballywilliam line with its Aspinall 0-4-4T tank locos with No75 the regular branch loco, the DWWR is likely to have used its 0-4-2 Goods locos on the Macmine Junction-Ballywilliam-New Ross Line on account of the lines roller coaster gradient profile.  

There is a great J P O'Dea article on the history and operation of the Bagenalstown-Palace East Line in the Carlow Historic Society 1973 Annual, including the saga of 0-4-4T No 75 and her train snowed in by drifts in January 1917 and rescue with two breakdown trains

http://carlowhistorical.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Carloviana-No-22-1973.pdf

[jhb171achill]

For the times that are in it.

B129 & 800 at Inchicore, 1962.

From the P Dillon collection, given to me a couple of years ago.

[popeye]

So which one was the fastest?

And which was the more powerful? 

[jhb171achill]

55 minutes ago, popeye said:

So which one was the fastest?

And which was the more powerful? 

Now, that would be an ecumenical matter.

 

OK, the kettle one.....!

Edited May 14, 2022 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

One of Ireland's least known but best modellers ever in live steam, was the late A R W Montgomery of Bray, Co Wicklow. 

Alexander Randal William Montgomery was born in Dalkey in 1878 and lived in Bray, and was a very close friend of both jhbSenior and H J A Beaumont (my grandfather). He died in Bray in 1966. 

A highly accomplished modeller, he sought engineering drawings from my grandfather in the Drawing Office in Inchicore, and built a number of 3.5 inch gauge live steam locomotives, all in full working order except for the models of GSWR No. 36 and B1a 800 "Maedb", which he never fully completed.

When he was getting on in years he gave his models to jhbSenior (don't I wish I had ended up with them!), who in turn donated the lot to the then-fledgling Ulster Transport Museum, where they were displayed in Witham Street. One more is believed to be hidden in the catacombs in the National Museum in Kildare Street. The models were finished to an exceptionally high standard - I remember seeing them in his house in the very early 1960s.

I'm not sure they're on display these days in Cultra - does anyone know? If not, they ought to be. The one in Kildare Street also needs to be rescued.

Here are the last two models he made, photos taken by Senior about 1962 at our house.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by jhb171achill

[David Holman]

He certainly knew what he was doing! Lovely models.

As for Queen v GM, the diesels were 950hp, I think, but electric transmission would reduce that by about 100hp at the rail, while top speed was 75mph.

 Feel sure the Queen would be capable of putting out well over 1000hp and over 80mph, so no contest!

[Killian Keane]

Another of ARW Montgomerys efforts, which appeared in the Locomotive Magazine for August of 1923

The accompanying write-up is as follows;

For many years the goods traffic of the Dublin, Wicklow & Wexford (now Dublin & South Eastern) Ry. between Dublin and Wexford, was Worked by a class of 0-4-2 tender loco. built by Messrs. Sharp, Stewart & Co., of Manchester, about 1865. As rebuilt, at the Upper Grand Canal Street works of the Railway, between 1885-7, one of these engines No. 22 'Bray', forms the prototype of the excellent model we illustrate herewith. The model locomotive has been made by Mr. A. R. W. Montgomery, of Bray, and is to a scale of 1 in. to the foot. The length over buffers is 3 ft. 9 in. and height from rails to chimney top 13 1/4 in. Weight of engine and tender in working order 57 lb. Working pressure 30 lb. per sq. in.

Other particulars of the model are as follows: Cylinders, 1 1/4 in. dia. by 2-in. stroke; coupled Wheels, 5 in. dia.; trailing wheels, 3 1/2 in.; wheelbase, 14 1/2 in. Firebox, outside, 5 in.; boiler barrel, 10 in. long smokebox, 2 3/4 in. long; diameter of barrel, 4 1/4 in., containing five tubes 3/4 in. diameter. Fittings include water and steam gauges, injector, sanding gear, cylinder lubricators, safety valve and whistle. The tender is fitted with a hand brake and carries half a gallon of Water. We understand there are still two or three of these engines in service on the Dublin & South-Eastern Ry.

[Galteemore]

Very nice - bet @KMCEwill love it! 

[jhb171achill]

I remember seeing that one!

He told Senior that once he died, he didn't want his engines to be "pulled by children along the pavement with a string".........!

Edited May 18, 2022 by jhb171achill

[KMCE]

2 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

No. 22 'Bray', forms the prototype of the excellent model we illustrate herewith

Seriously impressive model - does anyone know where this is now - does it still exist?

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, KMCE said:

Seriously impressive model - does anyone know where this is now - does it still exist?

Yes, it is in store at Cultra, I believe.

[Patrick Davey]

On 24/3/2020 at 11:54 PM, jhb171achill said:

Up the glens.....

Senior managed to poke his way through the weeds up as far Rathkenny on the Ballymena, Cushendall & Red Bay Railway about 1940 in the cab of a light engine which went off to find a wagon somewhere. The line was as good as closed but still saw an occasional goods working.

He explored the rest by bicycle and Shanks’ Mare....

 

JB I wonder are the station pics here maybe Ballyboley Junction rather then Rathkenny?

[jhb171achill]

23 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

JB I wonder are the station pics here maybe Ballyboley Junction rather then Rathkenny?

Not sure where it is, to be honest! All I know is that he did get to Rathkenny. He did not cover Ballymena - Ballyboley for sure, and I am unaware whether or not he did Larne - Ballyclare….

[airfixfan]

26 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Not sure where it is, to be honest! All I know is that he did get to Rathkenny. He did not cover Ballymena - Ballyboley for sure, and I am unaware whether or not he did Larne - Ballyclare….

They are both Ballyboley Junction station

[airfixfan]

JHB Senior also had photos of Ballyclare NG

[jhb171achill]

For people with A class dirty minds, Senior took this pic - yes, of a diesel - about 1990. It is so dirty that he probably thought it was a steam engine underneath........

[jhb171achill]

Senior's dad, i.e. HJAB of Inchicore, took this in Cobh about 1915 / 20.

[David Holman]

Proof that the image quality of early cameras could be fantastic.

[DJ Dangerous]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

For people with A class dirty minds, Senior took this pic - yes, of a diesel - about 1990. It is so dirty that he probably thought it was a steam engine underneath........

 

Too clean for an A, that's fake!

[Mike 84C]

I like the loco crew wearing straw boaters!

[David Holman]

So they are! Seriously cool dudes, or a posed picture? Either way an interesting option for a couple of ModelU figures....

[Ironroad]

7 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

I like the loco crew wearing straw boaters!

And  starched white collars,  they are in their  Sunday best,  don't think they are the crew, father & son on a day out?

[jhb171achill]

I'm looking at this now. The info I have is that this is one of my grandfather's photos - that much is correct, but the implication is, of course, that this means that he took it. However, here lies a puzzle. The guy in the driver's position is almost certainly him, so either there was some sort of timer on the camera (which I very much doubt) or he set it up on a tripod to get someone else to press the shutter.

He often accompanied locomotives that were just out of Inchicore on trial runs, especially when he had been involved in the design drawings for whatever amendment was being done. But that does not for one second explain the garb. There are other family pictures - quite a few - among his collection showing him attired like this, but after years of looking at that pic I only noticed the figures in the cab today. So what on earth was going on..... I have no idea. The young fella to his left could be one of a set of cousins from Co Offaly - jhbSenior was only born in 1918.

I'll need to get this image looked at again and enlarged more. It's an old glass plate neg, which is why it's so clear.

 

Edited Thursday at 15:53 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

On 7/11/2022 at 5:41 PM, Patrick Davey said:

JB I wonder are the station pics here maybe Ballyboley Junction rather then Rathkenny?

Yes, those pics are indeed the junction. I didn’t explain well - I meant he got to Rathkenny…..