From the Catacombs

[jhb171achill]

For our more northerly members:

Maysfields, first, mid 60s.

 

 

[jhb171achill]

But on a happier, if more dieseley note:

(All pics H C A Beaumont)

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Patrick Davey]

30 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

For our more northerly members:

Maysfields, first, mid 60s.

 

 

Jeepers these are hard to look at!!!

[Galteemore]

I don’t like the look of those characters with the oxy-acetylene tanks …

[murphaph]

Did the Suburban liveried 80's ever make it out on the GSW at all?

[jhb171achill]

23 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Did the Suburban liveried 80's ever make it out on the GSW at all?

I don't believe so, I think it's safe to say no. There weren't that many of them and the livery wasn't that long in existence; they were eventually repainted in blue & grey with "bumblebee" stripes.

[popeye]

Lovely selection, love the Lisburn picture with the old signals.

Keep them coming. 

[David Holman]

To my delight, found this book in the Club library recently. Some of the picture quality isn't great, but there are nevertheless some real gems, like the excursion to Courtmacsherry [doubt if Andy has anything like enough figures to recreate this!] and the buses on O'Connel Street.

[Westcorkrailway]

32 minutes ago, David Holman said:

To my delight, found this book in the Club library recently. Some of the picture quality isn't great, but there are nevertheless some real gems, like the excursion to Courtmacsherry [doubt if Andy has anything like enough figures to recreate this!] and the buses on O'Connel Street.

Somewhere on my computer, I have colour footage of 100/90 double header excursion into courtmacsherry.  They went some speed past the primary school

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Somewhere on my computer, I have colour footage of 100/90 double header excursion into courtmacsherry.  They went some speed past the primary school

The line speed limit was 7 to 10 miles an hour! The timetable allowed twenty minutes for the three mile run between Courtmac and Timoleague!

[jhb171achill]

Something a little bit different - my own photos of the Ardara BnM system, back in the day; I believe this was about 1995.

.

No. 36:

It's there now, and it was there back in the early 1960s when this was taken! The green it's in here is probably more accurate for pre-1875 GSWR green than what it's in nowadays.

And a FIVE INCH gauge version of it.

Any guesses? It was made in the 1940s, and it was not made by Cyril Fry!

[Westcorkrailway]

17 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

The line speed limit was 7 to 10 miles an hour! The timetable allowed twenty minutes for the three mile run between Courtmac and Timoleague!

There is a slight gradient coming into courtmacsherry village and I beleive twas common for the footplate Crewe to give it a burst of speed up the hill, before coasting into the terminal itself.

 

besides, there were many excursion trains that didn’t follow those limits!

[jhb171achill]

Just now, Westcorkrailway said:

There is a slight gradient coming into courtmacsherry village and I beleive twas common for the footplate Crewe to give it a burst of speed up the hill, before coasting into the terminal itself.

besides, there were many excursion trains that didn’t follow those limits!

Wouldn't be the first time the rules were broken - though that one would have carried with it a VERY high risk of a low-speed derailment! Senior saw this back in 1952 or 3 - No. 100 with the goods which was then typically operating once or twice a week. he said it was "threading its way carefully through the weeds" - and that's with three open wagons and No. 5J - the sole remaining T & CLR goods brake van! 

.... I wonder if it was the same driver!

 

That's Senior's car on the left - a 1951 light green Ford Prefect. He had it until about 1965 by which time - even then - it looked like an antique. I went to school in that - ZL 4196.

And a few bits of oul hardware. This lot would get nice auction prices today!

[Westcorkrailway]

13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Wouldn't be the first time the rules were broken - though that one would have carried with it a VERY high risk of a low-speed derailment! Senior saw this back in 1952 or 3 - No. 100 with the goods which was then typically operating once or twice a week. he said it was "threading its way carefully through the weeds" - and that's with three open wagons and No. 5J - the sole remaining T & CLR goods brake van! 

.... I wonder if it was the same driver!

 

That's Senior's car on the left - a 1951 light green Ford Prefect. He had it until about 1965 by which time - even then - it looked like an antique. I went to school in that - ZL 4196.

The courtmacsherry section could not be weedsprayed due to the weeds holding the ballast together when waves or flooding occurred.

for those who want to see prototypical Courtmacsherry speed, at 45:20 minutes into this documentary it shows footage.

https://youtu.be/eOeIbJHawV0

 

13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

And a few bits of oul hardware. This lot would get nice auction prices today!

Considering how much the un-authentic ones get 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Westcorkrailway

[David Holman]

Wonderful stuff, as ever!

[seagoebox]

On 5/1/2022 at 5:16 PM, murphaph said:

Did the Suburban liveried 80's ever make it out on the GSW at all?

Not on a regular basis, the attached is a Michael Jackson special from Bangor and Belfast at Cork Glanmire Road waiting for returning passengers in the early hours of 31st July 1988

[jhb171achill]

jhb171Senior was in Porteeedown, as 800 passed at snail's pace in the company of the ex-MGWR Dargan Saloon towards the erstwhile Belfast Transport Museum in the early 1960s.

Edited January 8, 2022 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

CIE didn't have a monopoly on filthy steam locos! This Jeep is still in traffic in 1969 here, but interestingly its number plates have been taken off (wonder who has them!) and a crude "NIR" has been "applied by hand" to the tank sides! Not sure which one; it's fifty-something, by the look of the buffer beam.

(H C A Beaumont)

[Galteemore]

Looks like 55, near Greenisland I think. Smoke looks like it’s pushing the rear of a spoil towards Magheramorne. Interesting track fitting on the up line.

[minister_for_hardship]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:59 PM, jhb171achill said:

Something a little bit different - my own photos of the Ardara BnM system, back in the day; I believe this was about 1995.

.

No. 36:

It's there now, and it was there back in the early 1960s when this was taken! The green it's in here is probably more accurate for pre-1875 GSWR green than what it's in nowadays.

And a FIVE INCH gauge version of it.

Any guesses? It was made in the 1940s, and it was not made by Cyril Fry!

Shame that 36's tender didn't make it but still very lucky that it survived at all. Came within a whisker of scrapping I'll bet.

Who had the 5" model?

[airfixfan]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Looks like 55, near Greenisland I think. Smoke looks like it’s pushing the rear of a spoil towards Magheramorne. Interesting track fitting on the up line.

Yes definitely leaving Greenisland at Carrick end of the station. Towards the end No 10 and No 55 got into a terrible condition and with the crib it is most likely No 55

[Galteemore]

1 hour ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Shame that 36's tender didn't make it but still very lucky that it survived at all. Came within a whisker of scrapping I'll bet.

Who had the 5" model?

It must have been one of the earliest examples of a railway company preserving one of its locos - few Victorian companies showed such sentimentality. I understand that it is largely held together by string and bits of wood inside! It is one of the few Irish locos to be publicly exhibited on the big island, making an appearance at the S and D centenary in 1925. Ironically, it was after this that it seems to have been most at risk, as photos at Inchicore show it looking very shabby and unloved in the open air. Arguably it would be best shown at Cultra beside 800, to give a nice comparison of the development of Irish steam.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Galteemore

[minister_for_hardship]

1 minute ago, Galteemore said:

It must have been one of the earliest examples of a railway company preserving one of its locos - few Victorian companies showed such sentimentality. I understand that it is largely held together by string and bits of wood inside! It is one of the few Irish locos to be publicly exhibited on the big island, making an appearance at the A and D centenary in 1925. Ironically, it was after this that it seems to have been most at risk, as photos at Inchicore show it looking very shabby and unloved in the open air. Arguably it would be best shown at Cultra beside 800, to give a nice comparison of the development of Irish steam.

 

Well yes and no. Preserved steam on public display some might say is, unfairly, concentrated at Cultra and precious little elsewhere. There are probably zero(?) standard gauge steam locos on display in the whole of Munster and Leinster bar 36.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Shame that 36's tender didn't make it but still very lucky that it survived at all. Came within a whisker of scrapping I'll bet.

Who had the 5" model?

Glad you asked, Minister, and you've done me a favour while you're at it. 

First, the model was made by the late "Monty" Montgomery of Bray, a friend of my father's. He would have passed away in the 1960s. I remember visiting him on a number of occasions. 

He had a truly amazing collection of 5 inch & 3.5 inch gauge models of various Irish locomotives, including this one and one of "Maedb". I am unsure of whether he had never married, or whether he was widowed, as there was nobody else (evident, at any rate) in the house when we would visit.

All of his models - and I reckon there must have been 15 or 20 - were fully operational live steam locomotives with the exception of Nos. 36 and 800, whish he was unable to finish due to failing eyesight and dexterity - the sort of things that go with a condition known as "too many birthdays"!

He had obtained the drawings directly from my grandfather in Inchicore's Drawing Office, which is how he knew my family. He built all of his models directly off the original plans, or in the case of 36 fro measurements of the real thing. The tender was still extant when he started the model of 36.

As Monty aged, he gave them all to my father, but he took the view that they deserved to be seen by a wider audience, so he arranged for the Belfast Transport Museum to take them, as nobody in any museum organisation Dublin had the slightest interest. I am unsure whether he offered them to the IRRS at the time, but they too would not have had the room to store, let alone display them.

So they ended up in Witham Street, where most of them went on display for a number of years. Once the move to Cultra took place, they went into storage again. I am unsure of the current position, but as models they put just about everything else that anyone has ever made into the ha-penny place - they are utterly superb down to the last detail, and all bar the two unfinished ones fully live-steam operational.

Now, Minister - I said you did me a favour. You've triggered something in my mind about where the photos are of these locos. This has made me realise that the several hundred pics of my father and grandfather's which I have been posting here the odd time when the whim takes me, are NOT the whole lot - as I remember my father taking pictures of ALL Monty's models, not just the two I've shown. So this begged the question where are the other photos? And that, in turn, begged the question where are the photos he took of the Portadown - Armagh line being lifted? I can't find them.

So a search started this morning. I have yet to uncover the aforementioned, which will continue to niggle at my mind until I find them - but what I DID uncover instead was a brown envelope. No, not Northern Bank tenners (I keep them in the second drawer in the freezer), but a pile of old negatives which I was unaware of. I thought they were duplicates of other stuff I have but lo and behold, they are not.

So I will bring them to "my man" in the coming days and get them scanned. They are very old - there's a series of a loco being fished out of a river bed in Wexford during the "Troubles" and there's an old 2.2.2 of some sort, so they must be my grandfather's.

So, there's your answer; customarily long-winded, of course, but it answers your question!

And yes, the whole of 36, not just the tender, did indeed come within a whisker of being scrapped. Of the two D & KR coaches which survived with it, one was scrapped and the other is in Cultra.

[Lambeg man]

On 5/1/2022 at 9:32 AM, airfixfan said:

Finally if you are interested in details of GNR coaches there was an excellent booklet by Steve Rafferty for the IRRS some years ago

I thank you for the compliment Airixfan. However, just to set the record straight, it was done for the benefit of the RPSI!

Robin Lynsley, Michael McMahon, Charles Friel and Norman Johnston deserved to be credited for the production. It was no great licks (e.g. no photographs) as it was purely a re-print of the GNR(I) Coaching Classification Book of 1944 with later additions mentioned. There were so many errors that a 2 page correction sheet was later offered to anyone who had bought the booklet.

Material collected at the time and since has provided me with enough information for a production of a proper book entitled "GNR(I) Coaching Stock 1916-1976".

However a primary problem was that the first draft ran to 660 pages. Secondly there are copyright issues over some of the photographs and drawings I would propose to use.

To that end, the work remains for the time being suspended. If any member of this site is seeking ANY information about GNR Coaching Stock, please do not hesitate to contact me at:

stephenrafferty@hotmail.co.uk

 

or if you prefer by PM on this website.

 

On 4/1/2022 at 9:09 PM, murphaph said:

Can someone explain to a clueless individual how the GNR coaches ended up in three liveries? Just a delay in repainting them after CIE got their share or is 135 UTA property or something?

 135 was built in 1942 as a classification K 23 'Utility' (or Workmans') Coach. It was rebuilt in August 1945 as a K 15 open Third. In June 1958 it was fitted for operation with BUT Railcars, hence the GNR blue/cream livery it is seen wearing in the photograph. Allocated to CIE, it was withdrawn in July 1972.

 

The whole saga of former GNR(B) liveries post 1958 is a story in itself. Yes, GNR coaching stock allocated to CIE did drift gradually to Galway, Cork, Loughrea, etc. Between 1958 and 1964 CIE stock in both 'green' and 'black and orange' liveries made it to Warrenpoint, Bangor, Portrush and Derry/Londonderry (Foyle Road).

As regards ex-GNR Railcars, the UTA did not begin repainting them into UTA 'green' livery until 1960. The first ex-GNR hauled carriage to be repainted by the UTA was photographed in June 1959. However some carriages in GNR 'mahogany' livery continued to be in regular service as late as August 1963.

On 5/1/2022 at 12:56 AM, jhb171achill said:

no wooden panelled GNR coaches ever got the blue and cream livery except No. 50, the Director's Saloon.

Steel paneled carriages were first produced by the GNR(I) in 1935. From 1939 and in all years up to 1954, all GNR carriages were built with 'Masonite' body panelling. 'Masonite' was a form of compressed wood (like modern MDF) and much cheaper than steel. The switch was not as frequently quoted by some commentators as "a war time economy", it was because in early 1939 the GNR(I) was already on it'd knees... 

 

[murphaph]

That's interesting about 135. Usually it's ex passenger stock that gets rebuilt as permanent way stock. I think that's the first time I've ever heard of it being done the other way around.

Edited January 10, 2022 by murphaph

[jhb171achill]

26 minutes ago, murphaph said:

That's interesting about 135. Usually it's ex passenger stock that gets rebuilt as permanent way stock. I think that's the first time I've ever heard of it being done the other way around.

A “workman’s coach” was a name given by the GNR to a type of 3rd class passenger coach as seen in the pic. It wasn’t a departmental or PW / maintenance vehicle - it was always a fully passenger-carrying coach.

Edited January 10, 2022 by jhb171achill

[murphaph]

Thanks for the clarification JB. I have much to learn! 

[Galteemore]

The word ‘utility’ is confusing in this instance, to be fair. It basically means that the coach was turned out originally to wartime standards with wooden seats etc before being ‘upgraded’ post 1945

[jhb171achill]

Found this in Senior’s stuff; don’t think it’s his pic, though.

So - MGWR main line somewhere - where? 

And with an “E” (J26) class loco - a branch line engine - why?

A note on the back of the print says “W & T?”…… it’s not the W & T, for at least three obvious reasons.

I would guess it dates from the 1895 -1910 period.

I wondered if it could be a Cavan train on the Mullingar - Inny Junction stretch before it was doubled, but - again - why an E class?

Answers on a postcard, please, with a €50 note….

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by jhb171achill

[Colin_McLeod]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:40 PM, Galteemore said:

Arguably it would be best shown at Cultra beside 800, to give a nice comparison of the development of Irish steam.

I suppose 800 would take up too much space in Cork station concourse

 

[Galteemore]

That was my other thought..in all seriousness, it would be nice to see a replica of a really early Irish engine for Cultra to give an idea of progress. I live near Milton Keynes, where a very convincing non-working replica of an LNW loco exists…

[Noel]

On 5/1/2022 at 4:39 PM, Patrick Davey said:

Jeepers these are hard to look at!!!

Ironically some of us may have driven cars that contained recycled metals extracted from sections cut from those locos.

[Broithe]

21 minutes ago, Noel said:

Ironically some of us may have driven cars that contained recycled metals extracted from sections cut from those locos.

I remember a kid at school moaning that a science question was too hard - the teacher brought in an actual exam paper that he had sat at the same age - for one of the questions, you had to estimate the likelihood that your next breath would contain a molecule that had been in Julius Caesar's dying breath.

This required all sorts of knowledge, from biology, chemistry and physics. What volume is a breath, how many molecules in that amount of air, how large is the atmosphere, how much is 'lost' from the atmosphere, and how much returns, and after how long, etc, etc.

I think the answer was around 50/50.

[Killian Keane]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:40 PM, Galteemore said:

 Arguably it would be best shown at Cultra beside 800, to give a nice comparison of the development of Irish steam.

 

I think it should stay exactly where it is, or should we have no 5' 3" steam in the republic?