Dugort Harbour

[murrayec]

Hi jb

It would most likely be a tank in some form of bund- a structure that would hold the full contents of the tank should it leak. The bund walls would be about 1 to 1.2 meters high built of brick or block and lined inside with asphalt in the early days, constructed in concrete with no lining later on. The tank would stand on two rising walls within the bund and the tank would be at a higher level so that if the bund fills the tank would be above the full level and not float! It would not be in an enclosure like a building, generally open above the bund for ventilation. A small discharge metering valve located at one end with hose and standard nozzle would be the associated gubbins......

Eoin

[popeye]

Maybe something like this.

 

[jhb171achill]

I'm thinking something like the two smaller tanks in the foreground in that pic..... it would be a comparatively small-scale thing and based in the 1960-3 period when health and safety matters weren't taken as seriously as now......

[murrayec]

Hi jhb

Yes, and oil cans, oil cans all over the place- I forgot!

Eoin

Edited July 11, 2018 by murrayec

[jhb171achill]

Oil cans it is.... I was thinking about getting a pack of them, actually, to use as a load for one of Leslie’s corrugated opens....

 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Couple of kits here JB, although I know Baseboard Dave has some Knightwing kits on his stand

 

https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/Diesel-Fuel-Oil-Depot-Tanks-knightwing-PM116

[Mayner]

22 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

An update from Baseboard Dave has boards complete and work proceeding.

It had occurred to me that one of a number of excuses for short workings into this terminus would be the fortnightly tanker of diesel to feed the CIE bus based locally, for the once-daily service to Slievemore village. I am aware that such practices existed at Ballina and perhaps elsewhere. In order to provide a realistic environment to where this wagon will end up at the end of a siding, does anyone have photos of anything of the sort? Presumably there would be a lineside fuel tank and all the associated gubbins. What would be adjacent to it - would it be an open tank, or a small brick building enclosing it all? I'm sure they didn't just unload fuel from a tank wagon directly into a bus!

CIE had a habit of leaving un-economic bus routes in rural areas to private enterprise. CIE carefully avoided running a staged service to Castletownbere and Glendalough and quickly gave up on Thurles-Clonmel once it abandoned its rail passenger services.

Fuel oil to the Dugort Harbour fishing fleet rather than the occasional internal user tank wagon, would probably be a more likely traffic and tie in with the original purpose of a railway built to stimulate the fishing industry in the West of Ireland.

To quote Eoin there appeared to be 45gal oil drums or barrels every where at Valencia Harbour in CIE days, the barrels may have been for use on the island before the opening of the bridge in the 1970s rather than fuel for fishing boats.

The County Donegal used scaled down tank wagons to service the Killybegs fishing fleet, the Swilly also had tank wagons ,so ESSO or Irish Shell Class A tank wagon with silver tank barrel and red solebars would make a nice contrast to CIEs grey and green rolling stock. Bachmann produce passable models of these older cradle mounted tank wagons which survived in traffic into the early 70s.  https://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Bachmann-37-684A-OO-Gauge-14-Ton-Tank-Wagon-ESSO-Bachmann-37-684A.html.

Most branch terminals (including Cahirciveen) and some through stations had small oil depots since the 1930s. Some had vertical like Bantry others horizontal tanks.

Ratio produce a passable fuel depot https://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Peco-Ratio-529-OO-Scale-Oil-Depot-Peco-Ratio-RT-529.html

The other common wagon at Valencia Harbour was the ventilated version of the outside framed Irish Railway Clearing House & GSWR van most likely used for fish traffic on the afternoon "Perishable" to Farranfore which connected into the Up Tralee-Mallow & Cork-Dublin Night Mail trains to arrive in time for the Dublin Fish Market.

The simplest solution might be to replace these with green CIE H vans no doubt introduced to replace the pre-amalgamation vans used for perishible traffic, or modify a few Provincial Wagons GNR standard vans with plasticard louvers to resemble the older vans.

 

 

 

L

Edited July 11, 2018 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

That's exactly the type of realism I'm planning for, Mayner - thanks. I've this idea of a once-daily bus heading off to some place in the back of beyond, but to justify its existence it probably ends up somewhere - like a Clifden - Westport bus would.

I like the fishing boat idea too!

[popeye]

Here is a picture of the ratio oil tanks kit No 530 or 529.

[jhb171achill]

I'd probably go for a smaller version of that - one tank, perhaps....

[jhb171achill]

Work proceeds chez Baseboard Dave, in the Badlands of Edenderry......

Left to right:  Outer loop, where wagons awaiting unloading will be placed. Middle line: run-round. Right hand track on loops: platform road.

At the end closest to us will be a short double-sided platform, as was the case at Westport Quay. At Dugort Harbour, there will be some sort of local grain merchant whose stuff will be loaded and unloaded here. You can probably make out my scribblings on the boards showing where the main platform will be. With little passenger traffic (a la Valentia Harbour), parcels and mail will be unloaded here, as there will be a mail depot nearby. This seems odd for a remote rural location, but the idea is that the "big town" isn't far away (a la Westport) and the sorting office is closer to here than "town"; i.e. on its outskirts. The real reason is that it gives me an excuse to have a truly random collection of mail vans arriving - this is 1960, and alongside brand-new "laminate" type designs, there are Bredin mail vans, "tin vans", and brake passenger coaches ranging from ancient GSWR 1880s six-wheelers to heavy GSWR bogie vans.

The station building will be of the same sort of cheap'n'nasty design as those on the Valentia line, or parts of West Cork or the West Clare. This will look appropriate, though again there's a practical reason - fitting it into as small a space as possible.

Given the angle of photography, the run-round loop looks a good bit shorter than it actually is. In the distance, as the line disappears, can be seen a stream which will go under the railway in a small culvert.

On the right is a long goods bank. At this end of it will be a small oil store, as the local fishing fleet have long abandoned rowing boats - it IS 1960, after all. The curved siding beyond it leads to a loco servicing site. The shed has long succumbed, but an overgrown inspection pit and still-operable water column remain; this will see visits from Roderick's 00 Works J15s, and the SSM one I have. To the extreme right will be a long gods bank with small corrugated goods shed. I have been saving a certain dimension of matchstick for a while, which will form the basis for one of those 1960s/70s wooden ramps seen on goods platforms, where lorries could back up to tip beet into wagons. At beet time, the place will be a bit like Timoleague, with specials of open wagons appearing.

 I wanted a turntable down the loco road, but those available from proprietary sources are (a) not that cheap, and (b) far too big. What would be turned here would be a GM 121 or a J15, not a Chinese "QJ", an Indonesian D52, or the Union Pacific's "Big Boy"! So, after also considering an overgrown pit adjacent to it, which might indicate the site of a former disconnected one, I decided to keep it simple and put a pile of old sleepers or something in long grass beside it!

At present, operation will be confined to trains entering and leaving from a fiddle yard. The layout is thus designed to combine:

1.  Interest in shunting operations

2.  Realistic operation given the sort of outlying location portrayed

2.  The possibility of future expansion beyond the fiddle yard (which is out of sight to the right)

3.  Realism of scenery and surrounds - a central and essential part of which is a feeling of space. the surrounding scenery, rather than being packed with stuff, will be fields with a few sheep in them, and maybe a gable wall of an old famine ruin or something.

The line will cross the small stream, with the ground sloping gently but unevenly to it on both sides. The plan is not one level patch of ground - the idea is an area of rocky fields. Beyond the stream, the land will rise and at the far end of the curve a short rock cutting will lead to a bridge, under which the line will disappear into the fiddle yard.

Future long-term plans will be an extension, which will end in a terminus based on a country town terminus. The whole line will then take on the persona of a self-contained line a bit like a mini-West Cork system, or the Tramore line. Planning applications for this have been submitted to the Dept. of Domestic, Upper Living Room & House Planning Affairs. Their Chief Domestic Officer assures me that the application has been received, but is currently on file, pending discussion with the Resident Dog, whose basket and water dish will need to be moved, and Todd Andrews.

I might add that the cut-out on the left corner is on account of a similar cut-out in the wall in the room where it will be!

[patrick]

I just cant let this go John but I think you should loose that 3 way point. Being so rare on Irish railways it seems out of place at least to me and the it looks like you have plenty of space for an alternative arrangement.

[David Holman]

Really like the way this has been thought out, with trains and traffic all part of the overall concept. Likewise the 'less is more' track plan - the late Richard Chown would certainly approve.

 One thing to consider though is the preponderance of straight lines, parallel to the baseboard edges. Subtle (sinuous even!), curves are more attractive to the human eye, while avoiding too much parallel to the baseboard edge improves the overall feeling of spaciousness. Making the double loop go diagonally across the boards would be a way of avoiding the three way point, though am sure there is a prototype for it somewhere. Space wasn't usually a problem in Irish country termini, but a harbour setting may well be tighter and need a more fancy track plan like the one shown.

[murrayec]

20 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Planning applications for this have been submitted to the Dept. of Domestic, Upper Living Room & House Planning Affairs. Their Chief Domestic Officer assures me that the application has been received, but is currently on file, pending discussion with the Resident Dog, whose basket and water dish will need to be moved, ...

Looking good jhb

I would support an extension to this layout, but no address to submit 'Comments & Observations' has been given for the Chief Domestic Officer so therefore I argue that planning permission should be granted by default!

Eoin

 

[jhb171achill]

I consulted Resident Dog this evening, during his Poo-Perambulations in the rain in the general neighbourhood. No issues were raised, though a leg was, on the neighbour's shrub. Following a visit to the wildnesses of Deepest Eádan Doire today, and a consultation with Baseboard Dave, some 35cm have been appropriated at the expense of moving centrepiece, thus making a wall picture off-centre. The Uachtarain of Domestic Stuff grudgingly allowed it. 

In all reality, the whole thing has been designed with a future extension possible to be just bolted onto the end of it. Today, we tested it for loop capacity. On the photos I posted, that run-round loop barely looks as if it would hold two bogies, but perspective can distort; think of trying to make a model of a locomotive from a 3/4 view photograph! In reality, it will hold four Cravens and a tin van at a pinch. The typical train into Dugort Harbour in reality would have been 3 or 4 six-wheelers back in the day, with a horse box or parcel van on the back. Had such a line survived until the 1967 closures, which is the idea, a typical train would have been a laminate or two and a tin van.

The 1960s Loughrea mixed is the sort of thing that Dugort Harbour would have. One bogie passenger coach, maybe half a dozen wagons and a van.

Dugort will do the same, though excuses will be made to choke the place with goods stock now and again; the cattle fair and the beet season will see to that. The local GAA club will come out of the woodwork en masse every September to support their county in the All-Ireland Final in Croke Park (does that mean it'll have to be set in Kerry?). The devout will appear for Knock Specials too.... so plenty of reasons to have some much more interesting workings.

Perusal of old working timetables often gives a great insight into what the railways carried in the past, where no two trains were alike, no identikit railcars all day (like the entire MGWR today!). Specials were common. Fair specials, plus all the things I've already mentioned. I would recommend this to anyone planning any sort of even vaguely historical layout. Look at how TTC produces rationales behind what runs through the fascinating Tara Junction - if this layout was being put together from scratch sixty years from now, the amount of realism that is included in it would actually need a good deal of research.

Dugort will contain evidence of a much busier past, like - prototypically - so many locations in the late 1950s - late 1960s period, within which the whole thing is set. The weed-strewn outline of an old turntable will be visible in one corner where nothing much else of scenic interest could be included. The overgrown loco road will still be usable to water locos, but none are based there any longer.

You get the idea!

[jhb171achill]

On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:21 PM, patrick said:

I just cant let this go John but I think you should lose that 3 way point. Being so rare on Irish railways it seems out of place at least to me and the it looks like you have plenty of space for an alternative arrangement.

I get that, Patrick, yes.... and while there is room to ditch it, there's not that much. It was, of course, an extremely rare beast on Irish railways anywhere, let alone some place in the back end of nowhere. However, there were things like diamond crossings in stations on the North Kerry, and three-ways in goods yards in Co Sligo; I will make the case that Dugort was one of the rare places that such a thing was to be seen. The idea even of a loop connected to two adjacent roads would seem an extravagance, but was to be seen in Loughrea and quite a few other places. Perusal of quite a few track plans in rural locations show up a surprising number of arrangements which look odd at best, unnecessary at worst. But I hear you!

15 hours ago, David Holman said:

Really like the way this has been thought out, with trains and traffic all part of the overall concept. Likewise the 'less is more' track plan - the late Richard Chown would certainly approve.

One thing to consider though is the preponderance of straight lines, parallel to the baseboard edges. Subtle (sinuous even!), curves are more attractive to the human eye, while avoiding too much parallel to the baseboard edge improves the overall feeling of spaciousness. Making the double loop go diagonally across the boards would be a way of avoiding the three way point, though am sure there is a prototype for it somewhere. Space wasn't usually a problem in Irish country termini, but a harbour setting may well be tighter and need a more fancy track plan like the one shown.

I get that too, David. The loco road you can see to the right is curved partly for that purpose and partly to add scenic detail to the right of it. 

There is also a gentle curve as you leave the station, which will cross a small stream seen (just about) in the distance as a curved cut across the board, after which the land gently rises and the curved track disappears into a shallow rock cutting.

Since space is limited in the room this will be in, a similar type of "real" setting is necessary. This is why it is partly inspired by Westport Quay, which was certainly on a limited site.

When I was researching for the book on the Achill railway, I discovered that while no definite track plan was ever made out, the one-time proposed terminus at Belmullet could only have had parallel tracks, given the site. The two West Clare termini also had parallel tracks and were rural. Places like Bundoran also had parallel tracks, and despite that, I always thought that Bundoran looked very spacious. One of the things I'm trying to create is that very spaciousness that Castle Rackrent did indeed have.

Thanks very much for the interest and comments, folks - much appreciated.

Edited July 20, 2018 by jhb171achill

[ttc0169]

Watching this layout develop with interest, best of luck with it.

[jhb171achill]

Not much happening, but a chance today to try a few of the locos out. Here, C231 approaches the station over the culvert over the Ballydung River, while two of the J15s are over the ashpit.

[David Holman]

Always good to place/run locos and stock on a new layout. Gives an idea of how things will look later on 

[jhb171achill]

Yes, the layout is wired for DCC and the seven engines I have aren't chipped, and one (SSM J15) isn't even run in. A bit of work there and chipping next.

Dave has done a mighty job on the wiring.

[CFD]

Looking good Jonathan! I will watch this one develop as I work on my own...

[Patrick Davey]

Following this one with interest JB, just hope you get the liveries right........

Am not an authority by any means but the straight lines catch the eye a bit: looking at Ballynahinch Junction now makes me think I should have angled the running lines a bit in relation to the baseboard edges, even though the prototype was dead straight (until the point of divergence).

Love the culvert and bridge - I have a plan for something similar for my 'micro', plans for which are still simmering!  Good luck with the build sir.

 

[jhb171achill]

Comments very much appreciated, Paddy.

It is partly influenced by places like Baltimore, Co Cork, where things were indeed straight, or Fenit, likewise.

The three-way point had been commented on as something not normally associated with rural Irish lines. I agree entirely; however there were a small number of examples - one actually being at Fenit. I think there was another somewhere on the North Kerry, and in various goods yards.

From MGWR cattle-specials country (Edenderry) comes the news that the entire thing should be up and running  by Easter. News here as it develops.

Suffice to say, I am taking Dave’s advice regarding the chipping and DCC-ing of three J15s, two “C”, four IRM “A” and two Murphy 141 class locos.

The future should see a B101, Murphy 121s, and a couple of “Mayner” Midland engines join....

[jhb171achill]

Paid a visit to Dave and Kevin this afternoon to discuss final scenic details. 

Fantastic looking job, and great credit to both.

About time that I got the station building and goods shed started....

A few photos pre-scenery:

[GNRi1959]

Looks very promising J, looking forward to seeing this progress.

[jhb171achill]

The latest; things begin to take shape at Baseboard Dave’s.

Hopefully near the end now! And it’ll be 1963 again.....

[Edo]

More!!!

[Patrick Davey]

Superb!!

 

[jhb171achill]

All Dave’s work. Scenery to follow! Then..... it’s 1963!

[Patrick Davey]

Looking forward to an overload of pics!

[Dave]

Here's a few sneeky shots I took today. The scenery is still at a basic level as we have to add lots of weeds and bushes.

[Edo]

Whens the big reveal!!!

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, Edo said:

Whens the big reveal!!!

Once the 10:40 mixed from Ballysomewhere rolls in! Hopefully not far away. 

[Edo]

Looks great so far.....i assume sheep will have eaten the grass down a bit by then

[Patrick Davey]

Yum!