Port Cumtha - P4 21mm

[KMCE]

Hello All,

Decided to start a new layout & also dabble in the dark art of P4 21mm. 

Quite a bit of work, but not a daunting as I thought it would be; building points is quite rewarding and there are plenty of resources out there to help you.  The bit of info which is a little more difficult to sort out are the stretchers and tie-bars.  Finally settled on using strips of copper clad PCB (on order at the moment) as the other attempts were not really working for me.  In the interim, I decided to get started on some buildings.

The idea is a fictitious Irish Port terminal – goods mainly but some passenger traffic from a small station.  The plan is get some experience in building track and re-gauging locomotives & rolling stock.  A little bit of scenery will help to set the track in its environs.

 Humble beginnings:

 

Simple track-work with two sets of points & hopefully two wagon turntables at the end to pick up the track running at 90 deg to the mainline.

 

Small engine shed - much more work needed!

 

 

 

Factory / Warehouse to close out the ends of the track in a slightly more interesting way (?) . Plan would be to have the doors closed.

I'm thinking only one wagon turntable would be active, as there would be a huge amount of work would be replicated for no real benefit.

 

Long way to go, but this is to give a general feel as to where it is going - hopefully!!

Enjoy,

 

Ken

[leslie10646]

Hi Ken

Good luck with this, which has more scenery on it than my layout which has been around at least five years!

Are you a member of the Scalefour Society? If not, I can recommend it. Apart from a fine magazine, they have their own "Stores" which offers loads of stuff for the modeller going the extra mile.

Leslie

[Joe Keegan]

Hi Ken

Congrats on using Brooks Smith method . 

You can use a sleeper with the rivet as a pivot as a tie bar  with the rails soldered to the rivets. Using the PCB as tie bar works just as well as the Late Frank Davis and I have done .

I can get you PCB strip if you are in the Dublin area but as the new format on this site now it does not show the member general geographical location and this offer maybe of no use to you .

Joe

   

Edited March 8, 2018 by Joe Keegan

[KMCE]

Hello Leslie / Joe,

 

I am a member of Scalefour Society and it has been a big help in getting going - the point building tutorial from Keith (Grovenor Sidings - http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html ) was particularly helpful, however he did stop short of setting up the stretchers.  I started by using the Turnout ground connection kit (locking/stretcher bars & rods) from the Scalefour Stores, however this was quite elaborate & I found it very difficult to get the electrical separation needed to use the electro frog solution for power.  A much simpler solution appears to be the strip of copper clad with wire / brass connections to the switch rails.

Joe, many thanks for the offer of the PCB (I'm in Wicklow Town BTW), however,  I have a sheet on order which hopefully will delivered shortly.  Once I get this sorted, I should be able to fix the points down and complete the rest of the track.

 

Regards,

Ken

[jhb171achill]

Excellent concept - the best of luck with it.

[bantree]

Excellent start-looking forward to following this.

[PaulC]

I have the greatest respect for any modeller wishing to go that extra mile and build there own trackwork. In any scenario I have seen it done it is by far a superior finish to any off the shelf product. 

You seem to have made giant strides already on the layout and this, I think, is going to be one to watch. 

Paul

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by PaulC

[David Holman]

Star!

Am guessing that, trackwise,  P4 21mm is no harder than finescale 21mm and flangeways will undoubtedly look better.

 From what other people have said here, it seems that loco and rolling stock conversion is the main barrier to going 21mm, though Andy Cundick gets on well enough.

 So, all power to your elbows, good sir. It has the look of a very good layout and can only be enhanced by being correct gauge. Am really looking forward to seeing how you get on.

[David Holman]

And just to add, that means we now have a new addition to correct gauge layouts:

3mm - Ballyconnel Road

4mm - Valencia Harbour, Courtmacsherry and new P4. Adavoyle too.

S - Paul Green's layout

7mm - Castle Rackrent, Arigna Town

Not many, so great to have a new addition!

[WRENNEIRE]

Loughrea?

 

[Garfield]

The SDMRC’s Belturbet layout, too...

[David Holman]

Great to see there are more!

[KMCE]

Hello Folks,

Many thanks for all the comments, they're much appreciated.

 

Being doing some work over the weekend.

 

The main factory / warehouse got a little more work & I started on the goods shed.

 

Shortened goods shed, as there is not much space between the backboard and the wagon turntable - still plenty of work needed to compete.  The platform is an old one I put in place for context.  

Really need to put some window sill on that factory!!

 

And what every good port should have - A lifeboat station.

 

 

A lot of detailing required on the slip and to tie the boathouse in.  Obviously a lifeboat just poking out of the boat house will set it off nicely.

Masking tape hinges until I can make up a few suitable hinges!!

Cheers - till the next one....

 

Ken

[Glenderg]

OoooOOooooOoOooohhh  

[johnminnitt]

On 3/10/2018 at 9:02 PM, David Holman said:

Great to see there are more!

Absolutely, just glancing at pictures above (especially looking down on the van), or shots of Belturbet or Valencia online, the correct gauge looks so much better.

Of course we who have dabbled in 00n3 have had the gauge right too!

PS Are there any pictures online of the Courtmacsherry model? I'd like to see that, it was an attractive prototype.

 

 

 

[leslie10646]

Ken

Your buildings look superb - no wonder the Master Builder Glenderg made his comment.

Love the idea of bringing the Brits into Ireland in the form of the ROYAL National Lifeboat Institution! Incidentally - the work of the Irish boats is featured in the BBC series presntly being screen - all power to their elbow - keeping a fine tradition going.

You're obviously a modeller of no small skills - how about one of the last sailing ships tied up the quay - see "Irish Sea Schooner Twilight" by Richard Scott - none of them were over a hundred tons.

Keep it up - wish I had a quarter of your ability.

Leslie

[PJR]

Really excellent workmanship.

[Patrick Davey]

Wowwwwwwwwww

[David Holman]

16 hours ago, johnminnitt said:

Absolutely, just glancing at pictures above (especially looking down on the van), or shots of Belturbet or Valencia online, the correct gauge looks so much better.

Of course we who have dabbled in 00n3 have had the gauge right too!

PS Are there any pictures online of the Courtmacsherry model? I'd like to see that, it was an attractive prototype.

 

 

 

Unbelievably retractive prototype and why it doesn't appear to have been modelled before is beyond me. Visited in 2016 and the setting seems perfect. Quayside at the front, village street forms the backscene and even the engine shed to hide the hole in the sky to the fiddle yard!

Not sure Andy is one for posting pictures, but do know the layout is booked for Warley this year.

[Andy Cundick]

Courtmacsherry is at Warley this year,it was meant to go out to the Romsey show a fortnight ago but the Show was cancelled due to the snow,so its debut will be at the rescheduled Romsey show in June .Bit depressing that it seems i've got about 20% of the proper broad gauge layouts though.Andy.

[leslie10646]

Andy, the reason that you have 20% of the proper gauge railways is that you're the only one of us  without a TV!

The other man who does wonders with proper 5ft3in gets HIS modelling done while his Better Half watches the Soaps!

What date for Romsey? - I hope it's the 2nd or 9th June, otherwise I'm away working.

By the way, my comment about the schooners is equally proper to you - 

A Dennis Murray owned a Rhyl-built 99 ton schooner called Harry Herbert - mind you, built in 1860! The last mention I find of her was of her ashore (but refloated) in 1925 - so maybe a bit before your time?

Keep up the great work!

[Noel]

That is a delight to behold.

[johnminnitt]

14 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

Courtmacsherry is at Warley this year,it was meant to go out to the Romsey show a fortnight ago but the Show was cancelled due to the snow,so its debut will be at the rescheduled Romsey show in June .Bit depressing that it seems i've got about 20% of the proper broad gauge layouts though.Andy.

Yes, as someone quite new to this forum (previous connection with Irish modelling being mostly 3ft gauge, and awareness of a few fine models like Adavoyle, Castle Rackrent) I am a bit surprised how little 'proper' broad gauge there is. Sure there's a lot of 00 in the UK, but there's a good deal of EM and P4 too.

Maybe there's less interest in smaller prototypes, where it's easier to put time into getting track and wheels right, and more main line stuff?

[Noel]

Some folks seem put off 21mm by the amount of work to modify all their rolling stock, getting stock running reliably on track after modifification, and for some the lack of ability to run stock on friends 00 layouts. That's my excuse also, but I admire and love looking at other folks broad gauge layouts. 

30 minutes ago, johnminnitt said:

Yes, as someone quite new to this forum (previous connection with Irish modelling being mostly 3ft gauge, and awareness of a few fine models like Adavoyle, Castle Rackrent) I am a bit surprised how little 'proper' broad gauge there is. Sure there's a lot of 00 in the UK, but there's a good deal of EM and P4 too.

Maybe there's less interest in smaller prototypes, where it's easier to put time into getting track and wheels right, and more main line stuff?

 

[johnminnitt]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Some folks seem put off 21mm by the amount of work to modify all their rolling stock, getting stock running reliably on track after modifification, and for some the lack of ability to run stock on friends 00 layouts. That's my excuse also, but I admire and love looking at other folks broad gauge layouts. 

 

All good reasons, depending on your personal priorities, and no doubt many who use 00 in the UK have similar reasons. There just seems to be a smaller percentage whose different priorities lead them to 21mm (and other scale equivalents) than there are who do P4 and EM.

Certainly it is less of a task to modify stock and get it working well, and to make one's own better-looking track, with a small branch than with a main-line set-up. Maybe there's less interest in that sort of thing than in the UK?

[Noel]

4 hours ago, johnminnitt said:

All good reasons, depending on your personal priorities, and no doubt many who use 00 in the UK have similar reasons. There just seems to be a smaller percentage whose different priorities lead them to 21mm (and other scale equivalents) than there are who do P4 and EM.

Certainly it is less of a task to modify stock and get it working well, and to make one's own better-looking track, with a small branch than with a main-line set-up. Maybe there's less interest in that sort of thing than in the UK?

Yes the hobby here in Ireland even per-capita has always been much smaller than the UK which may be a factor.  The number of clubs and skill base seems pro-rata less than the UK which has a long standing tradition of railway modelling in all its aspects.  Perhaps one day a small 21mm branch diorama might tempt me, especially if I can find a modeller with the skills of a watch maker to help re-gauge a small selection of rolling stock and get it to run as reliably on track as it did on 00.  As I said I have always admired 21mm layouts - but from a distance due to practicalities and my limitations.

[johnminnitt]

51 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yes the hobby here in Ireland even per-capita has always been much smaller than the UK which may be a factor.  The number of clubs and skill base seems pro-rata less than the UK which has a long standing tradition of railway modelling in all its aspects.  Perhaps one day a small 21mm branch diorama might tempt me, especially if I can find a modeller with the skills of a watch maker to help re-gauge a small selection of rolling stock and get it to run as reliably on track as it did on 00.  As I said I have always admired 21mm layouts - but from a distance due to practicalities and my limitations.

If the temptation to try that does strike one day, don't be too deterred - a good many people have got P4 to work decently without the level of precision skills you suggest. I even managed it a bit myself in the past - both in UK standard gauge and in real broad gauge (7ft) - and I'm certainly no watch maker.

[Andy Cundick]

Certainly don't have the skills of a watchmaker having done my time as a boilermaker,Valencia and Courtmacsherry are both built to EM standards as are my EM and Broad gauge(7'0"),as for building stock and track have a go, sure you might struggle a bit to start with but you learn from your mistakes as well .It really isn't that difficult.Leslie Romsey is on the 23/24th of June so you may have to wait until Warley,though the other 4 layouts are out before then,Andy.

[Noel]

Perhaps one day . . . but back on topic, Port Cumtha looks fabulous.

[leslie10646]

Leslie Romsey is on the 23/24th of June so you may have to wait until Warley,though the other 4 layouts are out before then,Andy.

Excellent timing - now in diary. Hope to see the new creation there.

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

On 13/03/2018 at 5:14 PM, johnminnitt said:

If the temptation to try that does strike one day, don't be too deterred - a good many people have got P4 to work decently without the level of precision skills you suggest. I even managed it a bit myself in the past - both in UK standard gauge and in real broad gauge (7ft) - and I'm certainly no watch maker.

I haven't posted anything here yet re a 21mm gauge line, as I've nothing to post, but it is my long term ambition to do a small, and simple short line based on the Dublin & Blessington - but it will have to wait a good few years until I have undertaken my fiscal responsibilities in a number of current areas!

[KMCE]

Needed to build a small station house for the layout and looked at a few options but settled on the rather nice building in Florencecourt.  It has a pleasant mix of whitewashed plaster and stone cornices with clear add-on waiting room.  Best of all it's small and allows me a little more room for the backdrop & street scene.  

Still working on gutters, down pipes, and signage.   Weathering will be done prior to fixing in place to reduce the finger marks.   On a roll with building, so will probably continue and work on the backscene - you get a general gist from the printout behind the station house.

 

Need to tidy up some details but it's coming together rather nicely.

Cheers,  

Ken

[JasonB]

14 minutes ago, KMCE said:

Needed to build a small station house for the layout and looked at a few options but settled on the rather nice building in Florencecourt.  It has a pleasant mix of whitewashed plaster and stone cornices with clear add-on waiting room.  Best of all it's small and allows me a little more room for the backdrop & street scene.  

Still working on gutters, down pipes, and signage.   Weathering will be done prior to fixing in place to reduce the finger marks.   On a roll with building, so will probably continue and work on the backscene - you get a general gist from the printout behind the station house.

 

Need to tidy up some details but it's coming together rather nicely.

Cheers,  

Ken

Very nice 

[PaulC]

Absolutely first rate. 

Paul

[Patrick Davey]

Superb - really looking forward to watching this one develop.