JM Design rtr GSR/Ranks Bulk Grain and Irish Standard Open Wagons

[Mike 84C]

Thats a very interesting picture F.L. It looks like the grain wagon ruptured or deliberately emptied  by the look of all the grain on the floor. But if you look further into the picture could those be Guinness kegs in the wagon that has reared up?  And there is a road tanker down by the L.C. that is I would think pumping fuel out of one of the tank wagons there looks to be a large braided fuel hose snaking  towards that tank wagon on the left. That would have been a disaster if one of those rail tanks leaked.  Thanks for posting and finding the picture.

[Mayner]

We are not proceeding further with the commissioning of the bulk grain wagon and open wagon at this stage primarily as a result of uncertainty of the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic on the World economy, but may re-visit the models at a later date.

I would like to thank everyone who has expressed support for the project, by completed the survey, responding to this thread and who contacted me directly.

Although the survey results were encouraging with over 75% of people who responded interested in both types of wagon the sample size of 74 (including members of this thread, customers and people who responded on social media) was relatively small considering the size of the Irish railway modelling community.

[Midland Man]

That is very sad news It would have filled one of the many many gaps in Irish RTR models. 

MM

[mphoey]

that is a real shame as said before we need more early stuff as current is now flooded with choice

 

[jhb171achill]

JM design is very much due great credit for investigating this project in the first place.

Once the worldwide “craziness” settles, we may hope for more from the “grey’n’green” era, to complement the “black’n’tan” era models.

[DiveController]

Sorry, John, sad news and surprising that there was not enough support for the open wagon even if the grain was maybe a less mainstream. Not sure what we're going to run with all the early A class and grey 121s pretty imminent now. Thanks for all the work you put into it. K

[Georgeconna]

You see plenty of Polls surveys for model of the year and Wish list etc but looking at the volume of people actually voting it seem to only capture a small section of People. TBH I did not even see a Survey on this but you could add me to the list for the Red ones if it ever happens!

Would of been nice for the B&T stuff too. Maybe later as you say but I would imagine these would move along quite nicely TBH, all the Dapol grey 4W Stuff went and they were on UK products so if you have a good outlet to move em on surely these would sell away. (Easy to say when its not my money though)

Now a nice Bandon Tank Train pack with suitable stock would be very nice

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Georgeconna

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, DiveController said:

Sorry, John, sad news and surprising that there was not enough support for the open wagon even if the grain was maybe a less mainstream. Not sure what we're going to run with all the early A class and grey 121s pretty imminent now. Thanks for all the work you put into it. K

John’s additions would have been perfect - but Leslie’s Provincial Wagons are perfect for the era, as are a few repaints of certain types of British wagons (ONLY a few of them!) and the early grey cement bubbles from IRM Towers.

SSM kits of the era too.

Worsley, Silverfox, Murphy, IFM & SSM all provide various kits and RTR carriages. 

.....and one pot of grey paint does the lot!

Go past 1970, and while the “snails” and steam engines are long gone, repainted brown wagons start to appear.....

Edited June 18, 2020 by jhb171achill

[TimO]

In the notes of someone very familiar with grain operations in Limerick I have  just come across the following: as there were no rail sidings at the docks, grain wagons were unloaded into open bulk grain lorries near Limerick station - by virtue of cutting a hole in the road bridge at Carey’s Road and discharging the wagons into the lorries underneath. 

[Mike 84C]

Thanks for posting that little gem Tim0, real lateral thinking!

[Mol_PMB]

On 28/5/2020 at 11:09 PM, jhb171achill said:

I don't know for certain, but I suspect before steam ended, as the only pictures I've ever seen of these things after 1960 are in grey. At a very wild guess I would be inclined to say GSR all-grey up to late 1940s, then red with "Ranks", then maybe grey with "Ranks" in the mid to late 1950s - and then grey with the various "snail" variations until the mid 60s, when "roundels" replace the "snails". It is possible that red with "Ranks" and grey with the same were concurrent, or that the grey came before AND after the red. 

It would be useful if anyone could throw any more light on this. As mentioned earlier, I'm sure I saw a pic of one in post-1970 brown too, and as others have pointed out, the odd badly faded grey wagon with "Ranks" was still to be seen just after 1970.

 

Old thread, I know, but I'm interested because I'm currently working on a model. This is a still from an IRRS video clip dated 1975, showing both a Ranks liveried one and a CIE brown one. My part-finished model is currently in grey but I'm tempted by the brown option!

I think this IRRS photo shows the same two wagons:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511551080/

 

On the question of ownership, this IRRS photo of a Ranks wagon, look closely at the solebar just to the right of the ladder. That plate shaped like a London Underground sign is a Railway Clearing House private owner wagon registration plate. That proves it's not a GSR/CIE wagon but genuinely a private owner.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510435707

The RCH plate is also visible on this image linked from another thread. Incidentally, note the ex-GNR grain hopper van on the left.

 

This is a black and white photo showing two freshly painted in Ranks livery at Inchicore in the 1950s. Your guess is as good as mine on the livery, but the underframe looks darker than the body:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509298965

 

Finally, on the left hand side of this image are a pair of GSR-liveried ones with a nice overhead view, if a little distant:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509038168

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I should have bought more than one kit...

[leslie10646]

Paul

It looks great in the Ranks Red and yes, you should have bought more than one, but I suspect that John didn't have them to sell - I wanted two and got one! Nice wagon to have.

[minister_for_hardship]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

Old thread, I know, but I'm interested because I'm currently working on a model. This is a still from an IRRS video clip dated 1975, showing both a Ranks liveried one and a CIE brown one. My part-finished model is currently in grey but I'm tempted by the brown option!

I think this IRRS photo shows the same two wagons:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511551080/

 

On the question of ownership, this IRRS photo of a Ranks wagon, look closely at the solebar just to the right of the ladder. That plate shaped like a London Underground sign is a Railway Clearing House private owner wagon registration plate. That proves it's not a GSR/CIE wagon but genuinely a private owner.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510435707

The RCH plate is also visible on this image linked from another thread. Incidentally, note the ex-GNR grain hopper van on the left.

 

This is a black and white photo showing two freshly painted in Ranks livery at Inchicore in the 1950s. Your guess is as good as mine on the livery, but the underframe looks darker than the body:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509298965

 

Finally, on the left hand side of this image are a pair of GSR-liveried ones with a nice overhead view, if a little distant:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509038168

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I should have bought more than one kit...

When repainted from Ranks livery to GSR/CIE markings does that indicate Ranks sold them off?

[jhb171achill]

31 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

When repainted from Ranks livery to GSR/CIE markings does that indicate Ranks sold them off?

The norm in Ireland - though not exclusively so - was that railway companies owned the wagons but leased them to private operators, or else reserved them for their specific use. As Mol points out, though, the Ranks ones shown appear to have a different cast plate, which could indeed indicate RCH, but perhaps more tellingly is the wagon number painted on - No. 8. if that was a GSR number, the wagon would probably have to date from before 1870!

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

 

Old thread, I know, but I'm interested because I'm currently working on a model. This is a still from an IRRS video clip dated 1975, showing both a Ranks liveried one and a CIE brown one. My part-finished model is currently in grey but I'm tempted by the brown option!

I think this IRRS photo shows the same two wagons:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511551080/

 

On the question of ownership, this IRRS photo of a Ranks wagon, look closely at the solebar just to the right of the ladder. That plate shaped like a London Underground sign is a Railway Clearing House private owner wagon registration plate. That proves it's not a GSR/CIE wagon but genuinely a private owner.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53510435707

The RCH plate is also visible on this image linked from another thread. Incidentally, note the ex-GNR grain hopper van on the left.

 

This is a black and white photo showing two freshly painted in Ranks livery at Inchicore in the 1950s. Your guess is as good as mine on the livery, but the underframe looks darker than the body:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509298965

 

Finally, on the left hand side of this image are a pair of GSR-liveried ones with a nice overhead view, if a little distant:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509038168

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I should have bought more than one kit...

The two newly painted ones will be red, and the "G S" ones plain grey.

Edited December 28, 2024 by jhb171achill

[Mol_PMB]

43 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

When repainted from Ranks livery to GSR/CIE markings does that indicate Ranks sold them off?

I don’t think any were repainted in this way. The GSR ones were repainted to CIE but the Ranks ones stayed in Ranks livery until the end. 

[Mol_PMB]

Here's a link to a drawing of the RCH PO wagon registration plate - a very standardised and (in GB) legally required feature on PO wagons:

[Mayner]

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The norm in Ireland - though not exclusively so - was that railway companies owned the wagons but leased them to private operators, or else reserved them for their specific use. As Mol points out, though, the Ranks ones shown appear to have a different cast plate, which could indeed indicate RCH, but perhaps more tellingly is the wagon number painted on - No. 8. if that was a GSR number, the wagon would probably have to date from before 1870!

The two newly painted ones will be red, and the "G S" ones plain grey.

There was an article on the GSR grain wagon in Railway World following their introduction in the mid 1930s the GSR built 10 wagons 16401-16410 for general traffic use in 1936?

The 8 Ranks wagons no1-8 were built the following year.

Interestingly the RW article talks about the grain hopper bodies being fabricated from 'rust resistant' steel which may have been a factor in the condion of he paintwork one these wagons in CIE days. CIE may have considered that a strip down and complete may not have been absolutely necessary with a rust resistant body, 

Photos indicate tthat a number of wagons received partial repaints in he 50s retaining their original GS pattern numbers and lettering after they received 'flying snails" transfers, in one case the large GS initials are grinning through the painwork on a wagon with a snail logo. Interestingly one wagon 16406 retained the original solid GS style of running number in combination with the 60s snail logo in the light grey livery of the mid 50s onwards, with the excepion of 16404 & 16406 photos of grain wagons have sencil pattern of running numbers. 

[exciecoachbuilder]

11 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Here's a link to a drawing of the RCH PO wagon registration plate - a very standardised and (in GB) legally required feature on PO wagons:

Bloody hell, two  No 18 wood screws and two 3/8th countersunk bolts , to secure this small plate onto the vehicle? This plate certainly wouldn't be falling off anytime soon...

[minister_for_hardship]

An Irish example, quite scarce due to rarity of PO wagons on the Irish system. 

[jhb171achill]

Presumably Ranks Nos. 1-8 had GSR or CIE on these plates?

[Mol_PMB]

34 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Presumably Ranks Nos. 1-8 had GSR or CIE on these plates?

I would expect them to have had GSR plates. I wonder if the GSR register of PO wagons survives somewhere - they were all given a registration number. 
On the GNR(I) plate shown above, the registration number is 196 which indicates that there were at least 196 PO wagons registered by the GNR(I) by 1922. 

[jhb171achill]

9 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I would expect them to have had GSR plates. I wonder if the GSR register of PO wagons survives somewhere - they were all given a registration number. 
On the GNR(I) plate shown above, the registration number is 196 which indicates that there were at least 196 PO wagons registered by the GNR(I) by 1922. 

I would doubt that, to be honest - I think that some PO were numbered consecutively. Eg the tank wagons the GNR had were numbered in the same series as CDR narrow gauge ones!

I stand to be corrected, but I doubt if there even 196 POs in the whole country…..?

[Mol_PMB]

Here’s a Swilly example, lower number here used at a later date. The RCH practice was that each registering railway had its own series. A wagon only had to be registered by one railway to run on any railway. 
 

 

With tank wagons, grain and Guinness wagons, the fair number of PO coal wagons north of the border, I don’t think 200 is impossible. They might not have existed all at once  

 

[airfixfan]

That Swilly plate is most interesting

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, airfixfan said:

That Swilly plate is most interesting

Indeed, haven't seen a tonnage plate in fractions of a ton.

[Mol_PMB]

The registration plate is visible, though not legible, on this narrow gauge tank wagon:

https://flic.kr/p/2pwq5iZ

And on these broad gauge ones:

https://flic.kr/p/2pwD6W1

https://flic.kr/p/2pwDLqB