New DART 8100 Model

[waffles]

I can't believe you got 10 people to part with 400euro. Well you know what they say about fools and their money

 

A collector collects what they want to and that's what makes them happy. If they want to spend that amount of cash on a model then let them.

 

After all we all have friends out side the hobby who think we are "crazy playing with toy trains at our age" and "how much did you pay for that" and "you could go on the holiday for that much" most of us are married to that person ! (I'm lucky my Mrs is also a collector all be it dolls)

 

Think about this every one went mad to buy one of paddy's 071s There will be at least 5000 made, If Eoin sells a 100 in total for arguments sake ,in five,ten or 50 years time they will have that ultra rare value and that kudos of owning them.

 

And as Eoin did say that the price will drop if he fills orders for each of the batches.

 

I took the opportunity to take a look at them at the show and for a just off the drawing board first made prototype the units look very good and like most things will be improved and refined till they are ready for final production,an interior, glazing protruding doors and etched parts.

 

A newcomer should be welcomed for making an effort. We all had to make a start somewhere in the hobby we all had to learn the skills we have and gain the information we all have on the subject , we were not born with it.

[BosKonay]

I saw the model 'in the flesh' at the show.

 

To be honest, the photos didnt do it justice.

 

I disliked the lack of glazing, but running on the track, it looked better than I'd expected.

 

With glazing and a bit of detail, I'd buy one, but probably at 200-300 rather than 400!

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

I'd buy one, but probably at 200-300 rather than 400!

 

Exactly Stephen 400 is OTT as I said fools and their money

[waffles]

Exactly Stephen 400 is OTT as I said fools and their money

 

as Eoin did say that the price will drop if he fills orders for each of the batches.

[Killucan2]

as Eoin did say that the price will drop if he fills orders for each of the batches.

So if I came along and ordered a unit from the first batch @400 then another lad came along and got one from the second he get it cheaper that me, we'll I say he just shot himself in the foot!! You will have people holding back hoping that they will get theirs at the same price,if me and David were to do that with our 26s and dd no one would buy them,he has to work out the price for all and say split the difference 200? Less.

M

[jhb171achill]

Nice original idea - but with printed sides I'd expect a price of €40, not €400.... sorry....

[irishthump]

Nice original idea - but with printed sides I'd expect a price of €40, not €400.... sorry....

 

Aboslutely no offence intended but I have to agree....

I had a quick look at the model when I was at the show and while I think fair play for having a go, it would need to be improved an awful lot for it

to have a chance of selling well.

[ttc0169]

I saw the model 'in the flesh' at the show.

 

To be honest, the photos didnt do it justice.

 

I disliked the lack of glazing, but running on the track, it looked better than I'd expected.

 

With glazing and a bit of detail, I'd buy one, but probably at 200-300 rather than 400!

 

I'll second that-with some glazing and a bit more detail,I'd have no problem buying one either,but not in its present condition,best of luck with your venture.

[waffles]

So if I came along and ordered a unit from the first batch @400 then another lad came along and got one from the second he get it cheaper that me, we'll I say he just shot himself in the foot!! You will have people holding back hoping that they will get theirs at the same price,if me and David were to do that with our 26s and dd no one would buy them,he has to work out the price for all and say split the difference 200? Less.

M

 

Think what Eoin is saying if you want a personalised one your number and destination or even your own personal livery then its going to cost more due to new artwork needing to be produced to scale .same way as getting custom weathering done on a loco or other model you pay extra and the same its the same with limited editions or one offs

If ten people order the same one it will save costs as he will make them all together in one batch each model being identical same livery artwork numbers and destinations.

 

Off subject How much do you charge for your 2600s a am interested, i didn't know you still did them please PM me.

[Killucan2]

Think what Eoin is saying if you want a personalised one your number and destination or even your own personal livery then its going to cost more due to new artwork needing to be produced to scale .same way as getting custom weathering done on a loco or other model you pay extra and the same its the same with limited editions or one offs

If ten people order the same one it will save costs as he will make them all together in one batch each model being identical same livery artwork numbers and destinations.

 

Off subject How much do you charge for your 2600s a am interested, i didn't know you still did them please PM

 

That's what we have been at for the last two year's,choice of colour and number's if interested look up D&M on site.

M

[Glenderg]

I have seen the DART's and I wouldn't buy one. In fairness, you could put a heap of small people inside bating the head off Bono and I still wouldn't buy it. I hate DARTs. But, here's a guy who has researched a model, done the drawings, bust his ass to make a prototype of a running model, and he is willing to turn up at the likes of raheny, prepared to take a heated discussion from those who eat sleep and drink this stuff, and still return and post here. Give him a break.

 

Yes, his costings are cuckoo, but I have a feeling this is the first time we have collectively shouted out and said what might be acceptable price wise, and he may adjust to suit the market. After all,there are plenty muppets who have stuck absolute crap up on ebay at ferocious prices, and yet we stay quiet about it. A bit of balance lads. Please.

 

It's quite simple -

 

Those of you who don't want to purchase or invest, or ever intend on so - quit bitching.

Those who have an interest, yet have a problem with detail or cost, PM the guy and sort it out.

 

Richie.

[David]

Think what Eoin is saying if you want a personalised one your number and destination or even your own personal livery then its going to cost more due to new artwork needing to be produced to scale .same way as getting custom weathering done on a loco or other model you pay extra and the same its the same with limited editions or one offs

If ten people order the same one it will save costs as he will make them all together in one batch each model being identical same livery artwork numbers and destinations.

 

Off subject How much do you charge for your 2600s a am interested, i didn't know you still did them please PM me.

 

@waffles

 

I've sent you a PM re the 2600

[enterprise207]

I agree, it should not be 400 euro, it needs a bit more detail for the prise (lights etc.)

[BosKonay]

I think it suffers by comparison.

 

D&M's amazing 2600's are the same kind of price, but have lights, are brass and fully detailed.

[Weshty]

Those of you who don't want to purchase or invest, or ever intend on so - quit bitching.

 

Truest words ever spoken, worth summarising in latin actually

 

"Qui non intendo acquisitionem, subsisto conquerentes"

 

 

Any newbie manufacturing should be encouraged, not pointlessly used for target practice.

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Truest words ever spoken, worth summarising in latin actually

 

"Qui non intendo acquisitionem, subsisto conquerentes"

 

 

Any newbie manufacturing should be encouraged, not pointlessly used for target practice.

 

 

It's not the manufacturing were talking about its the overrated price the model is not worth it

[WRENNEIRE]

Anto

Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay

I do not particularly like the model. too "toylike" for my taste but if someone is willing to pay €300 - €400 let them at it

Look at the price of the Jouef HDI locos, averageing around the €200 - €300 mark and they are crap

Beauty is in the wallet of the beholder

[Tarabuses]

The OP on this thread stated his intention to market his model and asked for comments and feedback. Anto gave his (highly informed)

opinion on the model. ie: he did'nt think the workmanship and materials involved was indicative of the high price tag, a view held

by a lot of other people.

 

No offence, but the old "well lets see you do better" response really does'nt add anything to the arguement.

 

I think that sums up the position nicely.

[BosKonay]

I am sure the OP will benefit from the feedback here, and that (bravely!) accepted in person at Raheny!

 

I for one would love to see that feedback and production evolve into another great source of Irish outline models we can all enjoy!

[RedRich]

We are all entitled to an opinion and I have had my own say regarding the model also. I think as consumers we all have a right to give our reasons why we think a model is value for money or why it isn't.

 

The opinions offered by Glenderg and Des hold a lot of weight with me because they work in the design and producing of models. David and Marks opinions also hold weight because of the models they have so far brought to the market. I don't have an informed opinion because I am not in the same position as these people are, and neither should anyone else unless they design,produce and build models. 99% of us on here are modellers of varying degrees and interests. What someone wants to pay for a model is their business and if the OP sells a full batch of models then more power to him. I model for my own pleasure and it gives me hours of satisfaction.

 

Rich,

[Sulzer201]

Found the following from MR Dec 12.

[MetVic]

Anto

Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay

I do not particularly like the model. too "toylike" for my taste but if someone is willing to pay €300 - €400 let them at it

Look at the price of the Jouef HDI locos, averageing around the €200 - €300 mark and they are crap

Beauty is in the wallet of the beholder

 

 

Credit to the OP for giving it a go but I agree it looks really "toylike". This reminds me of the Bachmann Railcar release - some people bought it for €90 but many didnt like it and waited for DKs far superior Railcar.

 

Personally, while I think some will buy this for €400, a lot of people will be holding off for the DK version which will no doubt be exceptional if the DDs and 2600s are anything to go by.

[enniscorthyman]

Well I did see the model at the show last weekend,I have to agree

that price is too much, and model is toylike in appearance,however

fairplay for having a go at the model.

[waffles]

I agree, it should not be 400 euro, it needs a bit more detail for the prise (lights etc.)

This is only a working prototype as Eoin said , not the final model, he has said that he is improving the model constantly.

 

As you can clearly see it has lights that work front and back uni directional.

etched wipers

white metal horn

working couplings.

the pantograph is handmade metal and sprung

the bogie frames are cast resin

the end gangways are cast resin too

you have a choice of motors spud or black beetle or others.

the underframe is brass

DCC ready

and you can have it anyway you want.

 

I understand an interior,glazing,protruding doors are also in the pipeline for the model.

 

How do i know this i asked him this and may other questions at the show.

[Tarabuses]

If the model is to have an interior, glazing and realistic doors then it is not what was on display at Raheny. We can only comment on what we have seen. I'm sure everyone will reasses their opinions when we see the improved models.

[murrayec]

So if I came along and ordered a unit from the first batch @400 then another lad came along and got one from the second he get it cheaper that me, we'll I say he just shot himself in the foot!! You will have people holding back hoping that they will get theirs at the same price,if me and David were to do that with our 26s and dd no one would buy them,he has to work out the price for all and say split the difference 200? Less.

M

 

Just to clarify;

 

The batch system to manufacture this train saves time on each model. Some of the processes require the workshop to be set up specifically. When set-up it is far more efficient to make quantities of the parts. The reason I am not doing this now and building up stock is quite simply the cost- at €120 per train I cant afford it. So by manufacturing like this for orders of 10 units I will be able to reduce the cost.

 

One off builds or special builds will still be at the quoted rate.

 

Thanks Waffles you hit it right on the button

[murrayec]

Found the following from MR Dec 12.[ATTACH=CONFIG]3367[/ATTACH]

 

Some of you may find this interesting

 

Since MR mag came out last week we have two orders placed from England and possible multiple order from an NI Club, both English orders are for a Guinness Logo train.

 

We are now international!

 

Again Waffles thanks for clarification on the lights and other components

[BosKonay]

It costs 120 per train? Do you mean per unit or for the two car? I thought the price was 400? <confused>

[murrayec]

It costs 120 per train? Do you mean per unit or for the two car? I thought the price was 400? <confused>

 

Thats €120 for the parts for two cars, before I start to build.

[murrayec]

I am sure the OP will benefit from the feedback here, and that (bravely!) accepted in person at Raheny!

 

I for one would love to see that feedback and production evolve into another great source of Irish outline models we can all enjoy!

 

This is my intention, I have made a number of revisions from the prototype model after discussions! on this forum, comments back from the website and last months show. I am not a Dart historian but I do know how to build models- regardless of what some of you think.

 

Revisions;

 

Coach Numbering

Corridor connections to square head

Plastic cast bogie sides

Plastic cast under-frame detail

Second coach continuous rib to roof artwork

Correct Guinness Logo coach numbers

 

I will continue to work on the windows and an interior, but at the moment I have orders to fill where this is not priority to the customers, it would seem they just want their Dart train.

[BosKonay]

Fair play Eoin - you've brought a new Irish model to the market and are making sales!

 

You've already done more than the other 99% of modellers and are to be congratulated. If you can improve the model through feedback and experience even better!

[RedRich]

Eoin there have been a lot of posts regarding the model and you have very graciously accepted every opinion. I admire your honesty in your replies to all posts, and as I have said before not for me but I do sincerely wish you all the best.

 

Rich,

[islandbridgejct]

Some technical points on this that might help. The curve for the roof seems too gradual and starts a bit too low down. When I look at them, the curve comes all in one go, and the sides are flat to a higher level and the upper roof arc is lower. Also, the front end is actually in 3 planes - the centre window is flat and the windows either side are angled slightly backwards towards the sides - probably not more than 0.5mm but it will make a difference to the look. As regards the printing, have you considered printing on clear plastic and leaving the windows clear, then wrapping around a former and sticking down - it could give the flush glazing look (and it is very flush) and still leave the windows looking credible. Otherwise the proportions are quite nice. Just some thoughts - good luck with the project. Alan

[murrayec]

Some technical points on this that might help. The curve for the roof seems too gradual and starts a bit too low down. When I look at them, the curve comes all in one go, and the sides are flat to a higher level and the upper roof arc is lower. Also, the front end is actually in 3 planes - the centre window is flat and the windows either side are angled slightly backwards towards the sides - probably not more than 0.5mm but it will make a difference to the look. As regards the printing, have you considered printing on clear plastic and leaving the windows clear, then wrapping around a former and sticking down - it could give the flush glazing look (and it is very flush) and still leave the windows looking credible. Otherwise the proportions are quite nice. Just some thoughts - good luck with the project. Alan

 

Yes the prototype drive car has a curve problem down the sides, the coach was put together much better and the side is correct. the next trains will be even better, I have sourced stronger foam for the former to do this.

 

The curve on the front is a tad more difficult, because of the printed roof I cannot do any filling at the join- I'm still working on an idea for this!

 

Yes, transparent sheet is printed and an interior structure is been worked on- though not working very well, the curve to the roof is hard to hold its shape and the sides have very little support to. This has been put to one side for the moment- I'm starting into the first batch of 10 units already ordered.

 

I will keep you posted

[murrayec]

Hi Guys

 

Just to give you an update on my DART progress;

 

6 trains are coming together and are, in my view, looking pretty good!

 

Items added and upgraded;

 

Plastic cast bogie sides

Plastic cast non motor bogies (Tenshodo spud replica)

Plastic cast under-frame boxes

Plastic cast pantograph roof recess

Metal cast pantograph construction

Plastic cast roof vents

Plastic cast roof end trims

3D passenger doors

Plastic cast corridor connectors

Tenshodo spud motor option only

Plastic chassis

Digital option with full control of the lights (digital train will be €100 extra for chip, wiring and programming)

 

With these advancement in the construction I have; cut out all painting except final varnish coat and individual part construction are now castings. This reduces my time in manufacturing and therefore I can offer the two coach set at a better price than previously quoted, now €300.00.

 

The attached pictures are a small preview of what's going on, and all the trains in the images are not complete. I will be at the Stillorgan Park Hotel Show on Sunday Feb 17 with complete Guiness Add, CIE and Dart25 trains.