North Wall

[Rob]

083 in action at North Wall today, Friday 14.04.23. 

Nice set of spoils and a full IWT liner set too- lots of the old reliable Bruhn and GCA tankers on show.

[Bob229]

14 hours ago, Rob said:

083 in action at North Wall today, Friday 14.04.23. 

Nice set of spoils and a full IWT liner set too- lots of the old reliable Bruhn and GCA tankers on show.

Well spotted Rob, great to see a fine mix of tankers and the spoil wagon set, 

[DJ Dangerous]

15 hours ago, Rob said:

083 in action at North Wall today, Friday 14.04.23. 

Nice set of spoils and a full IWT liner set too- lots of the old reliable Bruhn and GCA tankers on show.

 

No ContainerShips???

[MOGUL]

14 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

No ContainerShips???

These 6 of them with the sausages, rashers and butter you asked for!

[DJ Dangerous]

Actually looks like that might be one just before the BLS container?

[skinner75]

Bruhn tankers filled with TK Red lemonade, to go with the containers of Tayto!

[DJ Dangerous]

Just now, skinner75 said:

Bruhn tankers filled with TK Red lemonade, to go with the containers of Tayto!

Now you're talking!!!

[Rob]

Credit to John Carrick on Facebook for the attached photo-   Pocket Wagons leaving North Wall today- haven't seen these in action in a long time?

[ttc0169]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

Credit to John Carrick on Facebook for the attached photo-   Pocket Wagons leaving North Wall today- haven't seen these in action in a long time?

That’s the 13:05 Northwall to Ballina CPW liner-the first day of operation hauled by 084

[MOGUL]

My pics, passing Cabra a few minutes later.

084 looked like @JasonBor @murphaphhad a go at weathering it! 

Edited September 5 by MOGUL

[Rob]

Great pics @MOGUL!    Are the pockets back then?    Sorry if l missed this!

[ttc0169]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

Great pics @MOGUL!    Are the pockets back then?    Sorry if l missed this!

Yes-seen here north of Foxford station earlier this evening heading for Ballina freight yard. 
 

[Bob229]

Excellent photos, Great to see them back and hauled by a  Class 71 loco which according to IRRS IR presentation this evening could be withdrawn in 2030

[DJ Dangerous]

On 6/9/2024 at 12:01 AM, Bob229 said:

Excellent photos, Great to see them back and hauled by a  Class 71 loco which according to IRRS IR presentation this evening could be withdrawn in 2030

Wow, withdrawal date will be upon us before we know it!

[JasonB]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:09 PM, MOGUL said:

My pics, passing Cabra a few minutes later.

084 looked like @JasonBor @murphaphhad a go at weathering it! 

 

Nice shots @MOGUL. 084 obviously hasn't had a wash since I saw her last.

I took this photo in June, and you can see the streaking on the front then. It seems alot heavier in your photo. 

Edited September 21 by JasonB

[Auto-Train Original]

why have nearly all the sidings been removed in the last few days?

[Mayner]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

FFG are "improving" the country by removing rail access to Dublin Port. No time to lose; Navan Mines are back open, and it would never do to have to reinstate a withdrawn freight train.

Bye bye Taras.

Simon Martin and Leo Mehole whatever could teach William Craig, Todd Andrews and Beeching a thing or two.

A Jan 2024 Irish Times article paints quite a different picture with the Dublin Port Company downplaying increased rail usage in its expansion plans and the Transport Minister Michael Martin 'encouraging' the Port Company to make increased use of rail, including a instruction to model (carry out a feasibility study) of railing container traffic  between the IE North Wall Depot to an 'alternative site" (Inland Port) outside of the Port. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2024/01/17/dublin-port-downplays-increased-role-for-rail-freight-in-expansion-plans-despite-ryans-concerns/

The Port's argument appears to be that  rail traffic through the Port has been falling and that "de-carbonisation" may be achieved more quickly and effectively with 'low-emission" trucks through the Port Tunnel & Motorway network.

As far as I recall there was talk  of Dublin Port closing rail access to the Alexandra Road Terminal at some stage this year in order to improve road access to the terminal through a flyover (for trucks) over Alexandra Road.

 

Edited December 9 by Mayner

[jhb171achill]

I would remain to be convinced of FFG’s actual commitment to rail. They’ve a long history of making the right noises, but doing nothing.

[LNERW1]

In fairness they do keep getting voted in so presumably they’re pleasing everyone enough to keep that out of sight and out of mind. The entire island of Ireland outside of Dublin, Belfast and a little bit of Cork has fallen into a rut of car dependence. It’s a little like America in that we seem to have forgotten how useful and important effective passenger rail (or in our case rail altogether) is. It’s unfortunate but unavoidable. Maybe the new developments in Dublin will spur on the rest of the country to demand effective public transport.

[GSR 800]

16 hours ago, Mayner said:

A Jan 2024 Irish Times article paints quite a different picture with the Dublin Port Company downplaying increased rail usage in its expansion plans and the Transport Minister Michael Martin 'encouraging' the Port Company to make increased use of rail, including a instruction to model (carry out a feasibility study) of railing container traffic  between the IE North Wall Depot to an 'alternative site" (Inland Port) outside of the Port. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2024/01/17/dublin-port-downplays-increased-role-for-rail-freight-in-expansion-plans-despite-ryans-concerns/

The Port's argument appears to be that  rail traffic through the Port has been falling and that "de-carbonisation" may be achieved more quickly and effectively with 'low-emission" trucks through the Port Tunnel & Motorway network.

As far as I recall there was talk  of Dublin Port closing rail access to the Alexandra Road Terminal at some stage this year in order to improve road access to the terminal through a flyover (for trucks) over Alexandra Road.

 

Eamonn Ryan, the Green transport minister, not Michael Martin FFs leader and Tanaiste.

Greens got obliterated at the election. Won't cry for them, but they were a good voice for rail.

59 minutes ago, LNERW1 said:

In fairness they do keep getting voted in so presumably they’re pleasing everyone enough to keep that out of sight and out of mind. The entire island of Ireland outside of Dublin, Belfast and a little bit of Cork has fallen into a rut of car dependence. It’s a little like America in that we seem to have forgotten how useful and important effective passenger rail (or in our case rail altogether) is. It’s unfortunate but unavoidable. Maybe the new developments in Dublin will spur on the rest of the country to demand effective public transport.

Maybe the other half of the country will show up to vote next time..

While US passenger rail definitely got the short end of the stick, its not as feasible in terms of long-range journeys across the continent. Aircraft can just get there significantly faster.

Where there is a slowly growing market is intercity travel within larger states such as Florida or Texas, with multiple large cities within a few hundred miles of each other

 

[LNERW1]

2 hours ago, GSR 800 said:

Eamonn Ryan, the Green transport minister, not Michael Martin FFs leader and Tanaiste.

Greens got obliterated at the election. Won't cry for them, but they were a good voice for rail.

Maybe the other half of the country will show up to vote next time..

While US passenger rail definitely got the short end of the stick, its not as feasible in terms of long-range journeys across the continent. Aircraft can just get there significantly faster.

Where there is a slowly growing market is intercity travel within larger states such as Florida or Texas, with multiple large cities within a few hundred miles of each other

 

I suppose long-haul, flying makes more sense, but I feel like it would be better to try to replace long car journeys with European-style, high(ish) speed, high frequency rail, it would eliminate a large amount of traffic and CO2 emissions. Not that any government will ever manage to push that through without multiple important people being killed by conspiracy theorists who think passenger rail is fascism’s greatest tool and Ford, GM, etc.-hired hitmen.

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, LNERW1 said:

I suppose long-haul, flying makes more sense, but I feel like it would be better to try to replace long car journeys with European-style, high(ish) speed, high frequency rail, it would eliminate a large amount of traffic and CO2 emissions. Not that any government will ever manage to push that through without multiple important people being killed by conspiracy theorists who think passenger rail is fascism’s greatest tool and Ford, GM, etc.-hired hitmen.

Its difficult to envisage countries with a much lower population density than countries such as France, Germany or the Benelux Countries replacing air and long car journeys with European-style passenger rail services. 

Ireland has a low population density at 76 people per Sq/Km compared with France 120Sq/Km, Germany 243, England 297 and less urbanised at 60% compared with Western European countries at over 80%.  

More likely a citizens revolt over having to pay high taxes and rates to subsidies public transport, rather than conspiracy theories about Socialist Governments forcing us to use rail or motor industry Hit-men.

I very much doubt that the Irish public would be prepared to pay the high level of fares or taxes required to support a high speed/high frequency European passenger rail service.

The New Zealand Transport Minister recently advised Wellington and Auckland cities that they will have to substantially increase train and bus fares as farebox revenue in both cities in now below 25% of operating costs.

Farebox revenue in cities such as Vienna and Oslo contributed 50% revenue pre-Covid and in many countries commuter rail passenger numbers have not returned to pre-Covid levels as working patterns have changed considerably since the 1980s.

Strangely much of the current push for people to resume commuting and return to their office is driven by Financial Institutions with a major risk of ending up with 'stranded assets' as city center office blocks, business districts and transport assets become redundant if people no longer need to commute to the city to work.

Although there has been a lot of talk about 'remote work' and people working from home being a post Covid thing, I worked largely remotely for an Irish Government agency for two years before leaving for New Zealand in 2004. 

These days I pay almost twice as much in rates on our house as in income tax. A high proportion of our rates goes towards maintaining the local roads and subsidising local public transport services (which I don't use)

Edited December 10 by Mayner

[Auto-Train Original]

Ireland does not have a super low population density at all (over 7 million on this island now) and Dublin has the same population density as Amsterdam and Copenhagen and no, Ireland is not smaller than Manchester just because Jack Charlton said it 40 years ago. These off the cuffs 'low density' assumptions are not as relevant as they are made out to be. England has one of the highest pop density on the planet. They are the exception, not the rule. This is not whom we compare ourselves too when talking rail investment. New Zealand is VERY different geograpically than Ireland. Again, not the same.

We have a government and civil service who wear onesies watching the Late Late Toy Show while giggling. There is no leadership and foresight in this country. That's the problem not our population density.

Edited December 10 by Auto-Train Original

[DJ Dangerous]

18 minutes ago, Auto-Train Original said:

Ireland does not have a super low population density at all (over 7 million on this island now) and Dublin has the same population density as Amsterdam and Copenhagen and no, Ireland is not smaller than Manchester just because Jack Charlton said it 40 years ago. These off the cuffs 'low density' assumptions are not as relevant as they are made out to be. England has one of the highest pop density on the planet. They are the exception, not the rule. This is not whom we compare ourselves too when talking rail investment. New Zealand is VERY different geograpically than Ireland. Again, not the same.

We have a government and civil service who wear onesies watching the Late Late Toy Show while giggling. There is no leadership and foresight in this country. That's the problem not our population density.

Maybe you guys could start a different thread to discuss politicians and air your opinions on their attire.

 

[skinner75]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Maybe you guys could start a different thread to discuss politicians and air your opinions on their attire.

 

Start it on X or Truth Social...

[Darrman]

Setting the politics aside, does anyone have any pictures of these sidings being removed? Is there any chance of it being just some form of maintenance? And are there any planning applications for the relevant land? Concerning, certainly, but we don't have any great amount of information aside from "the sidings are gone".

[DJ Dangerous]

6 minutes ago, Darrman said:

Setting the politics aside, does anyone have any pictures of these sidings being removed? Is there any chance of it being just some form of maintenance? And are there any planning applications for the relevant land? Concerning, certainly, but we don't have any great amount of information aside from "the sidings are gone".

We'll have to wait for @Rob to get on his bike.

[LNERW1]

15 hours ago, Mayner said:

Its difficult to envisage countries with a much lower population density than countries such as France, Germany or the Benelux Countries replacing air and long car journeys with European-style passenger rail services. 

Ireland has a low population density at 76 people per Sq/Km compared with France 120Sq/Km, Germany 243, England 297 and less urbanised at 60% compared with Western European countries at over 80%.  

More likely a citizens revolt over having to pay high taxes and rates to subsidies public transport, rather than conspiracy theories about Socialist Governments forcing us to use rail or motor industry Hit-men.

I very much doubt that the Irish public would be prepared to pay the high level of fares or taxes required to support a high speed/high frequency European passenger rail service.

The New Zealand Transport Minister recently advised Wellington and Auckland cities that they will have to substantially increase train and bus fares as farebox revenue in both cities in now below 25% of operating costs.

Farebox revenue in cities such as Vienna and Oslo contributed 50% revenue pre-Covid and in many countries commuter rail passenger numbers have not returned to pre-Covid levels as working patterns have changed considerably since the 1980s.

Strangely much of the current push for people to resume commuting and return to their office is driven by Financial Institutions with a major risk of ending up with 'stranded assets' as city center office blocks, business districts and transport assets become redundant if people no longer need to commute to the city to work.

Although there has been a lot of talk about 'remote work' and people working from home being a post Covid thing, I worked largely remotely for an Irish Government agency for two years before leaving for New Zealand in 2004. 

These days I pay almost twice as much in rates on our house as in income tax. A high proportion of our rates goes towards maintaining the local roads and subsidising local public transport services (which I don't use)

Los Angeles and New York aren’t getting linked by a high-speed railway in the next century, but think of if the Midwest was treated like, say, Ukraine (disregarding the current war and different cities- and note I’ve just used that as a good comparison off the top of my head, and maybe I could be off by a bit or a lot), connectivity would be so much better and the area would grow a more dense population.

The thing is most of America likes their cars, and simply don’t want passenger trains. Outside of (and even in) the northeast (Boston, NY, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC) and urban-eastern midwest (Detroit, Chicago), passenger rail is basically never used and so becomes less dense, but a rail line is rarely more than 50km away, and is often a lot closer. At the moment Amtrak operates over less than 10% of the US network, most of that being either long stretches with no stops between large cities, or dense services all east of the Mississippi, that are still very under-utilized and infrequent. Even the North-East Corridor is rubbish compared to even Irish railways. (Let’s face it, we have shite railways on a European scale.) But let’s be honest it’ll never happen- America is ruled by car companies. It’s like the German auto lobby stunting high-speed rail but far worse.

Maybe let’s trim back the thread drift as suggested above, I’ll leave it there, thanks.

Edited December 10 by LNERW1

[ttc0169]

2 hours ago, Darrman said:

Setting the politics aside, does anyone have any pictures of these sidings being removed? Is there any chance of it being just some form of maintenance? And are there any planning applications for the relevant land? Concerning, certainly, but we don't have any great amount of information aside from "the sidings are gone".

I’m glad to see someone seeing sense and getting back on topic…..

I have seen photos of the removed sidings on the various social media sites-

The sidings have been removed in order to provide a concrete hard standing area for a reachstacker to load and unload the IWT liners….they will be brought to and from the port by the shunting tractor units hauling trailers-more progress from Dublin “anti rail” port. 

[Rob]

There ya go @DJ Dangerous!!!

[DJ Dangerous]

6 minutes ago, Rob said:

There ya go @DJ Dangerous!!!

I thought that they were "nearly all" gone?

And where's the pic of the bike???

[Rob]

....comparison to previous layout.

[Mayner]

Interesting a location where very little changed in almost 100 years followed by significant change in the last 20 or so years/

The layout basically remained un-changed from era the Dardanells Sidings (area on the right) were laid presumabably in the WW1 eara until the yard was re-modelled about 20 years ago. The one constant feature is the double slip on the crossover from the  main running lines to the Granary Sidings & Alexandra Road Tramway.

The running lines from Chruch Road Junction were once fully signalled controlled by the Granary and Sheriff Street signal cabins.

The Dardanell's sidings and the remains of the Point (Polling Fields) yard were lifted and re-modelled to handle the reaining Liner trains (mainly keg traffic). Railborne Container traffic to Dublin Port had earlier ceased following the closure of the recently (1996?) opened rail terminal at the end of the Alexandra Rd terminal and transfer of traffic to a terminal South of the Liffey

The Dardanells and the Polling Fields had been used mainly used to store stock awaiting repair in the adjacent wagon reapair shop or long term store/dump for out of service stock, some gems included the remaining ex-DSE coach & GSWR vans once in departmental service and a collection of redundant private owner tank wagons, stock that may not ahve turned a wheel in over 20 years,

ironically the proposed hard stranding for container transfers to the Port appears to be partially on the site of CIEs original Point Depot (Polling Fields) container depot opened during the late 60s

 We have been here before Devestation at the Holyhead Yard 2003

Irish Rail final days of container operation July 2005

12:00 Cork Liner on left, Ballina Liner on right! No other destinations serve

[Irishswissernie]

I don't think that I uploaded this video to flickr along with my other ones  several years ago, mind you its quite possible Ihad! Its a 9 minute segment and flickr originally would only take 3 minute clips.

North Wall with 088 on a Tara, then 168 182 076 170 in the yards  and finishing with  081 on cement  at Limerick Junctionand 169 on mixed bubbles and bagged mts from Waterford.

2003-06-A North Wall-Limerick Junc 17jun03.