British locos and stock that can be disguised as Irish

[NorthWallDocker]

1 hour ago, gibbo675 said:

On the subject of re-gauging, I wonder what may have happened if it was the track that had been re-gauged rather than locomotives and stock. The Great Western Railway managed 3000 miles in a weekend...... or so we are told.

Gibbo.

And yet, the GWR still got it wrong, and missed the chance to go 5 foot 3 inches. 

[Andy Cundick]

4 hours ago, Killian Keane said:

The Crewe Special tanks and the 4' 6" mansion house tanks, but I have a feeling in the case of the Greenore saddle tanks the Irish locos had larger driving wheels than their English counterparts, don't know off the top of my head though

I used the London Road Crewe Special but used the DX Splashers which are available separately to do my Greenore tank looks a bit lost on Valencia though.Andy

[Mayner]

The six "Mansion House" tanks did not last for too long in their original condition on the DSER. Five were requisitioned for Industrial use and returned to Great Britain during WW1. the sixth was #64 later GSR 427 was rebuilt by the DSER with a new boiler, cylinders and cab that it looked more like a South Eastern than an ex-LNWR Loco

 

Curiously in my mind the WLWR pair of 2-4-2Ts that passed to the GSWR and later GSR resemble the LNWR 5'6" '2-4-2T Radial Tanks also produced by London Road Models and once available as a GEM Whitemetal kit,

Main downside is that the ex-LNWR and WLWR 2-4-2T had a quite short life by Irish standards withdrawn by the late 1930s

 

[David Holman]

On 8/7/2024 at 6:57 PM, NorthWallDocker said:

@David Holman, would you be able to point me to a reference source with drawings or photos about this Railway Clearing House tank wagon?  Or a kit source?  I'm a rank amateur learner.

In 7mm scale, Slater's do a kit.

[LNERW1]

Might be more trouble than its worth, but Bachmann's James model could probably be a chassis donor for a DSER Mogul? The body's also close enough but the face would need replacing with a smoke smokebox door and the firebox and cab would need work.

Also, a C or A class bodge (or maybe a scratchbuild) could use the cab ends of a BR Class 26 or 27 to get the curvature more or less right.

Finally, not British, but I am planning on converting an LGB starter set 0-4-0 into a BnM Andrew Barclay,  specifically No. 2 at Stradbally. I think @Hawkerhellfire has already done so.

[Mike 84C]

I was given a broken Bachmann James quite a while ago and thought along your ideas LNERW1 but its a very small model probably made to 3.5 mm  per  ft or HO in real terms. If you want a C class buy a Silver Fox kit it does work out quite well.

[LNERW1]

I’d say the body would be a bit smaller, but I was thinking along the lines of just using the chassis as I think the wheel spacing is close enough. Re the C class, I was thinking of it as a very “on the cheap” bodge with a bodyshell for a tenner and a chassis already lying around, etc. or as an A class as there’s no way I could afford the IRM release.

[Mike 84C]

Just dug up the Bachmann James chassis, I threw the body away a long time ago!

Bachmann chassis Dim.as follows 100 mm = 25ft      No 461 aprox; chassis lenght   33ft

axle spacing                         21 mm =5-3"                  5ft+7-3"+8-10"

 

The second figures are taken from Locos of the GSR Clements and McMahon.

                                                                           

driving wheel dia.                18 mm =4-6"                   5-1"

ft pony wheel dia                 11 mm =2-9"                    3-0"

Hope this info; is helpful it would be a shame to spend cash on something that will not do what you hope it will.

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Just dug up the Bachmann James chassis, I threw the body away a long time ago!

Bachmann chassis Dim.as follows 100 mm = 25ft      No 461 aprox; chassis lenght   33ft

axle spacing                         21 mm =5-3"                  5ft+7-3"+8-10"

 

The second figures are taken from Locos of the GSR Clements and McMahon.

                                                                           

driving wheel dia.                18 mm =4-6"                   5-1"

ft pony wheel dia                 11 mm =2-9"                    3-0"

Hope this info; is helpful it would be a shame to spend cash on something that will not do what you hope it will.

 

Posts like this one remind of some of the great things about this forum. It's easy to forget about the positives when some of the negatives become overwhelming. People like @Mike 84C are willing to go out of their way to help the likes of young @LNERW1.

[DoctorPan]

Nicky Cox of Erritt Lodge Works on FB did a model of 461 using a James chassis and tender as a foundation.

[Galteemore]

That’s not half bad. At least one compromise is apparent straight away but it’s a characterful and recognisable model, with a fair paint job. Blackening the wheel rims would be a big help.

[Mike 84C]

Dr Pan, looks like Nicky Cox used the Hornby James ?  Its very good and a much better starting point than the Bachmann one.

461,one of my favourite engines, I'm hoping Accurascale  release a model of it for their Irish steam loco.  Lots of selling points going for it but I wont hold my breath!

 DJ Dangerous thank you for your comments very kind of you.  So many people on this site and on other site's have freely helped me over the years, so the right thing is to help others if you can.

 As an aside, I worked with a guy whose nickname was Dangerous Dave, Health & Safety what's that ? But he  kept our mill running well past its sell by date!  Your avtar? reminds me of him and I like that.  

[DoctorPan]

2 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Dr Pan, looks like Nicky Cox used the Hornby James ?  Its very good and a much better starting point than the Bachmann one.

461,one of my favourite engines, I'm hoping Accurascale  release a model of it for their Irish steam loco.  Lots of selling points going for it but I wont hold my breath!

 DJ Dangerous thank you for your comments very kind of you.  So many people on this site and on other site's have freely helped me over the years, so the right thing is to help others if you can.

 As an aside, I worked with a guy whose nickname was Dangerous Dave, Health & Safety what's that ? But he  kept our mill running well past its sell by date!  Your avtar? reminds me of him and I like that.  

Yeah it's a Hornby James chassis and tender as its starting point.

[derek]

10 hours ago, DoctorPan said:

Nicky Cox of Erritt Lodge Works on FB did a model of 461 using a James chassis and tender as a foundation.

Nice looking layout too, @DoctorPan. But that is one serious wrinkle in the sky Bridge to the beach is excellent

[Tractionman]

How about a Shark?

https://tonystrainsofrugby.com/collections/carriages-wagons/products/hornby-r60078-zua-shark-ballast-plough-db993826

 

[jhb171achill]

On 28/7/2024 at 6:34 PM, Tractionman said:

How about a Shark?

https://tonystrainsofrugby.com/collections/carriages-wagons/products/hornby-r60078-zua-shark-ballast-plough-db993826

 

Interesting one - the body could indeed pass as an approximate CIE brake van, but the wheelbase is completely wrong - it would need a totally different chassis.

[gibbo675]

On 24/7/2024 at 10:37 PM, Mike 84C said:

I was given a broken Bachmann James quite a while ago and thought along your ideas LNERW1 but its a very small model probably made to 3.5 mm  per  ft or HO in real terms. If you want a C class buy a Silver Fox kit it does work out quite well.

Hi Mike,

I built one of those a couple of years ago for my mate in Sligo and used a Hornby class 29 chassis with slightly modified bogies.

Scrubs up reasonably !

Next to one of my Hornby class 24 conversions as a size comparison.

I do like @LNERW1 idea of using a Lima class 33 body as a basis for a body of an A or C class although the bogies are all wrong. The C class could be cut and shut using Hornby class 29 bogies and the off cut from the body might do to space out for a C class using class 31 bogies. The B class might also be made form a lima class 33 body and class 31 bogies.

Scratch building and cutting and shutting really aren't all that difficult especially when using an existing body as a conversion.

Get busy lads;

 

 

 

Gibbo

[murrayec]

You need a set of these......

Eoin

[Mike 84C]

Here's a couple of pictures of my three diesels.  The B101 has moved more than the photo shows, its now got windows and is transfered up and just need window wipers and a good dose of oil, muck etc; over its body! Cutting the windows from plastic Ferro Rocher boxes was very tedious! But is better than the vac-formed windows of the Silverfox kits. The Sulzer kit is from that man Weshty!

All run on Hornby motor bogies and chassis but no old pancake motors!

[Mike 84C]

I have posted all these years ago!! but here's a couple more. The van is a tarted up Parkside PalVan  and the last one is one that didnt make the transition  and got filed in the parts bin!

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Mike 84C said:

I have posted all these years ago!! but here's a couple more. The van is a tarted up Parkside PalVan  and the last one is one that didnt make the transition  and got filed in the parts bin!

 

 

 

I like the 201 Class 0-6-0T (converted from a Hornby J83?)  basically tank engine version of the J15 appear to have been mainly used for shunting in Dublin and Cork and passenger and goods trains on the West Cork.

A 201 apparently converted from a Tri-ang Jinty appeared in series of articles on building corrugated iron buildings from card in the Railway Modeller in the early 1970s. The shape of the cab roof was the give away!

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

Tell us @Mike 84C what was the last one supposed to have been ?

Gibbo.

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

 

 

That J10 is class…..

[Johnny B. Good]

I know the answer is probably “no” (because nothing could be that easy) but were rectangular tank wagons ever used in Ireland in the days of steam? 

Edited August 1 by Johnny B. Good
Spelling

[Westcorkrailway]

25 minutes ago, Johnny B. Good said:

I know the answer is probably “no” (because nothing could be that easy) but we’re rectangular tank wagons ever used in Ireland the days os steam? 

Something like this was used as a “portable water tank” there was one down in courtmac during the beet season.

 

Biggest problem is….there was two seperate square tanks as a pose to one large one

[Mike 84C]

Gibbo, I was aiming for a B2 from a B1! but it did'nt cut the mustard. If the boiler was higher the whole thing looked to stubby/short and lifting the boiler made the body a lot weaker.

John, spot on with the 201 from the Hornby J 83? its the ex NBR model. Daft as it sounds the inspiration was the chimney I thought it looked very GSR'ish and I worked back from there! The cab roof was quite difficult to form with no wrinkles in it.

[Killian Keane]

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/156339713404

Edited August 6 by Killian Keane

[minister_for_hardship]

On 1/8/2024 at 4:39 PM, Johnny B. Good said:

I know the answer is probably “no” (because nothing could be that easy) but were rectangular tank wagons ever used in Ireland in the days of steam? 

They used trains of old loco tenders to take water out to places where the local supplies weren't kind to boilers. Mend and make do.

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Killian Keane said:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/156339713404

Built from  GEM "Special Tank" kit unmotorised. Similar in general outline to the Greenore locos, but tank version of the LNWR 'Coal Engine" that had smaller (H Section) wheels and a straight running board, while the Greenore engines were conversions of the DX which had largerwheels and crankpin splashers. The H Section wheels had flat spokes used on some GSWR and LNWR classes.

Following Andy Cundicks example of marrying  a Brassmasters "Special Tank" with their DX underframe running board would be a better option for producing a Greenore engine especially in 21mm. Tried to convert a GEM Special Tank into a 21mm Greenore loco about 40 years ago but was not a success.

[Mayner]

On 2/8/2024 at 3:39 AM, Johnny B. Good said:

I know the answer is probably “no” (because nothing could be that easy) but were rectangular tank wagons ever used in Ireland in the days of steam? 

The Midland Great Western had a two rectaangular tank wagons 1108 & 1967 used for cresote traffic between the North Wall and Liffey Junctionsleeper depot and cresoting plant. The Midland bought a pair of RCH pattern tanks (5'8" diameter) for cresote traffic from Charles Roberts in 1915. Its possible both types may have lingered on in service into CIE days. (Notes MGWR Wagon Stock P O'Cuimin  IRRS Journal 1969?)  

Haven't seen a photo of either type of wagon, its possible that the other large companies may have used similar wagons to transport cresote from the ports to their cresote plants.

[Horsetan]

On 31/7/2024 at 8:18 PM, gibbo675 said:

..... The B class might also be made form a lima class 33 body and class 31 bogies.

Scratch building and cutting and shutting really aren't all that difficult especially when using an existing body as a conversion.

Get busy lads;

 

The 10'6" total wheelbase of the B101s can also be obtained by using Heljan Hymek bogies, which are the exact overall wheelbase. You do have to drill a new middle axle position, though, hopefully without striking the internal geartrain!

In terms of cutting and shutting, do make sure that your chosen glues and solvents are up to the job - the last thing you want is your body splitting along the joins because the glue won't take to the plastics.

It might be a good idea to pin your joins with appropriate wire (0.7 or 0.9mm dia) so that everything is aligned correctly. I should have done this from the start when I experimentally sandwiched the centre section of a Lima Class 40 between the cabs of a Bachmann 40 (the original Bachmann 40's centre was wrongly-shaped), instead of trusting it all to the strength of Plastic Weld solvent.

[Galteemore]

17 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

The 10'6" total wheelbase of the B101s can also be obtained by using Heljan Hymek bogies, which are the exact overall wheelbase. You do have to drill a new middle axle position, though, hopefully without striking the internal geartrain!

In terms of cutting and shutting, do make sure that your chosen glues and solvents are up to the job - the last thing you want is your body splitting along the joins because the glue won't take to the plastics.

It might be a good idea to pin your joins with appropriate wire (0.7 or 0.9mm dia) so that everything is aligned correctly. I should have done this from the start when I experimentally sandwiched the centre section of a Lima Class 40 between the cabs of a Bachmann 40 (the original Bachmann 40's centre was wrongly-shaped), instead of trusting it all to the strength of Plastic Weld solvent.

Would love to see some photos of your work HT - sounds really good stuff.

[Horsetan]

50 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Would love to see some photos of your work HT - sounds really good stuff.

There's a lot I need to get back to. Time is not currently favourable, unfortunately. 

[gibbo675]

8 hours ago, Horsetan said:

The 10'6" total wheelbase of the B101s can also be obtained by using Heljan Hymek bogies, which are the exact overall wheelbase. You do have to drill a new middle axle position, though, hopefully without striking the internal geartrain!

In terms of cutting and shutting, do make sure that your chosen glues and solvents are up to the job - the last thing you want is your body splitting along the joins because the glue won't take to the plastics.

It might be a good idea to pin your joins with appropriate wire (0.7 or 0.9mm dia) so that everything is aligned correctly. I should have done this from the start when I experimentally sandwiched the centre section of a Lima Class 40 between the cabs of a Bachmann 40 (the original Bachmann 40's centre was wrongly-shaped), instead of trusting it all to the strength of Plastic Weld solvent.

Hi There HT,

Interesting thoughts regarding Hymek bogies, I used Hornby Hymek bogies for a BR class 82 which was a Trix body conversion. I also changed the wheels out for larger ones that I acquired form Peter's Spares which were listed as Hornby tender drive wheels, I had to make sure that got the correct ones in that some are insulated and some plain metal and some are insulated with traction tyre grooves.

As for cutting and shutting locomotive bodies I've never had a problem with the grade of plastic that Hornby use as it generally takes solvents really well. I usually fit a backing strip made form either .030" or .040" plasticard as well.

Gibbo.

[gibbo675]

7 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Would love to see some photos of your work HT - sounds really good stuff.

Hi there Galteemore,

Here are some of mine to be going on with, all built from Hornby Stanier coaches. They are all featured on my ongoing thread along with all sorts of other projects.

GNRI L14 open third brake.

GNRI K15 open third.

GSR Bredin corridor third.

GNRI F16 corridor composite.

Gibbo.