We're all well aware of the changeover from green to black'n'tan in the early '60s. But it wasn't a case of everything being green one day, and repainted uniformly the following Monday morning! In these days of carefully managed corporate images, there is greater uniformity - and to companies who value a strong corporate branding, this is a good thing. But for an enthusiast and modeller, the 1955-75 period was one of variety, albeit beneath the blanket of the black'n'tan!
I will dig out details as I get the chance of variations in different locos, for example there was at least one 121 which received a red buffer beam during the short-lived greay and yellow era for these engines. The grey and yellow was largely gone within six years or so of delivery, with the class all receiving the standard black'n'tan.
G and E class locos carried both black with white bands at the top, and same with tan at the bottom. Generally, a black loco had CIE roundels on the sides, while a b'n't loco did not. On E class locos, the orange was "full height", i.e. matching the levels up to below-window-level on carriages, or thereabouts. On G class locos the tan was a strip about a foot high from platform level. Both "full height" and "lower strip" tan bands were to be seen on A and C class locos at various times; you will know what I mean if I refer to these variations as "high" and "low" tan sides.
Newly delivered 141s did not have a CIE roundel below the number on the sides, though these were added with later repaints, whereas 181s had them from the outset.
Some C class locos, while black, had yellow ends; on these the loco number was in black. I do not have the details of which locos had which variations and when, but I may be able to dig this out in which case I will post it.
A class locomotives had a tale to be told. This was the subject of an article in the August 1969 Irish Railfan's News, the following being a summary which would be invaluable for those modelling these locomotives in a 1960s setting.
There were sixty of these engines - the largest class of any Irish locomotive bar the GSWR 101s - built in 1955. They were delivered in all over silver, bogies and all, with "flying snails" and numerals in light green, and red buffer beams. This livery had extremely poor durability - probably worse than any other finish any rail vehicle has ever been in! A realistic approach to modelling this would be to look at photos of locos in this livery in traffic - they were a filthy grey in use, and the story got worse by degrees! Not surprisingly, CIE did not perpetuate this more than 5 years or so, with the lighter green as seen on the Dublin RPSI coaches taking over shortly, though not before A46 appeared in the older dark green, with light green line along the middle (as on DCDR's coach 3223 at present) in May 1958.
From here, the story became complicated.
Following A46's debut in dark green, A36 appeared in the then new lighter green, but without the lighter waistband. However, despite the lighter green being the new "post-silver" livery, the following emerged over the next few months in the dark green with waistband: A10, 11, 15, 24, 25, 34, 45, 51, 54, 57, 59 & 60. So by late 1959, one lloco is in light green, 13 in dark green, and the rest in varying stages of the fifty million shades of silvery grey!
From 1960 the lighter version began to appear on all locomotives on a wide scale. A46 itself received this late in the year. No other loco started in dark green and was repainted light green - others went from silver to one form of green, then to black'n'tan or black. By the end of 1961 and locomotives still in silver were really in a deplorable state, in many cases the numerals being barely legible as they seemed to have tendency to wear off.
In September 1961 A6 appeared in an experimental livery described at the time as "black, golden brown and white". The IRN and the IRRS journals of the day doggedly stuck to this description of the light tan, which was in reality a browny-tinted orange. The loco had "high" tan sides. During 1962/3 this livery spread, though after the first few locos were thus treated the white strip above window level became narrower - the more familiar width perpetuated right through to the 1990s on Cravens.
However, in 1962 A16 appeared in traffic in newly painted silver!
By 1963/4, the story was:
Black'n'tan: 1-3, 5-8, 12, 14, 15, 17, 20, 22-4, 27, 31, 36, 37, 39, 40, 47, 48, 50, 52, 56 & 58. The tan was "high" level - same as on carriages. Trains thus formed had a very uniform look.
Dark Green with waist level lighter green line: 10, 11, 25, 34, 45, 51, 54, 57, 59 & 60.
Plain Light Green, no line; OR silver (a few; not sure which): 4, 9, 13, 16*, 18, 19, 21, 26, 28-30, 32, 33, 35, 38, 41-44, 46, 49, 53, 55. (* 1962 painted silver)
As if that wasn't complicated enough, A30 appeared in plain black in early 1964, as seen nowadays on Downpatrick's A39, but with orange buffer beams. Livery detail for modellers here: apart from a few rare one-offs, the general rule is that if there is tan at all, the upper white line continues right round the body sides, whereas if the loco is otherwise all black, the white bits are ONLY on the ends. An exception was the G class: white all round the top of the cab (though black roof, of course) irrespective of whether the loco had tan or not. Also, tan locos had no "broken wheel" on the sides, whereas black ones did in later days, but (as on DCDR's A39 now, and A30 as described above) did. A49 and A55 followed suit, but no other locos were thus treated. The orange buffer beams did not last long, soon being repainted red; otherwise the black livery remained the same.
By 1968 most of the class were repainted in this black livery, though the central side numeral gave way to numerals in the more familiar position on each end of the lower body side, with a "broken wheel" where the number had previously been. But A54 was still a dishevelled dark green (and temporarily out of use) and 1, 15, 22, 37, and 52 were black and "high" tan. A16 had a unique variation; having been b'n't, her sides had been painted black for her appearance in a film "Darling Lili", but her ends were b'n't... for a while!
In June 1968, A52 received the rectangular yellow patch on the front that was to become a short-lived feature on a few locos on the A and C classes, and the B113/4 pair. The loco number was painted on this in black, but the livery was otherwise unchanged. However, A15 was repainted after it, in the standard all-black.
By late 1969, A22, 37, 58R* and 59R* were black'n'tan. All others were black and white, with the following having received yellow ends: A4, 12, 13, 20, 24, 31, 34, 50, 52 & 55.
* The "R" following the number indicated that the loco had had its original Crossley engine replaced by a GM one during the re-engining or "transplant" process. Externally no changes were evident, but on re-engined locos the tan changed to the "low" version. This involved the ends remaining the same, but the formerly mid-height tan band on the sides dropping behind the cabside doors to a band (from memory) about 1 foot or 18 inches high... photos indicate this.
By the time the re-engining process was complete, in parallel with a similar process on the C class (whose livery history had been more or less an exact parallel of the above), the new "Supertrain" livery was coming into being.
Below window level, it was the same, but the changes were above this. Carriages had formerly had a white line above the windows, then more black right over the roof, but now the new "a/c" (Mk 2) stock had the same tan as below windows right over the roof and no white line, giving an impression of an all-tan coach with a black band covering window level only. Numerals were on the ends instead of the sides, giving a smooth and streamlined appearance.
The first locomotives to be treated with this new livery were A's, as they were now being used in a new lease of life on main expresses all over the country. Unlike coaches, locos had a number at each end of the bodyside, low down, and one on the ends, above a CIE roundel; loco ends were the only places where the CIE logo was to be seen on the "Supertrain" livery. "A"'s received tan sides, tan roofs and tan ends, with just the mid-bodyside black band, which dipped at the ends, for relief. The white lines were gone - for the time being! Initially the white numerals on the ends had orange shading if on a black background (A class) and later on with a black background when on tan, as seen on 141s once they started being repainted. I don't remember ever seeing shaded numerals on a 121; I think they were plain white from the start, as the shaded ones became with their first repaint.
Numerals on the sides of locos retained their shading.
.png.c363cdf5c3fb7955cd92a55eb6dbbae0.png){kind=logo}
Question
jhb171achill
PART 1 (of 2)
We're all well aware of the changeover from green to black'n'tan in the early '60s. But it wasn't a case of everything being green one day, and repainted uniformly the following Monday morning! In these days of carefully managed corporate images, there is greater uniformity - and to companies who value a strong corporate branding, this is a good thing. But for an enthusiast and modeller, the 1955-75 period was one of variety, albeit beneath the blanket of the black'n'tan!
I will dig out details as I get the chance of variations in different locos, for example there was at least one 121 which received a red buffer beam during the short-lived greay and yellow era for these engines. The grey and yellow was largely gone within six years or so of delivery, with the class all receiving the standard black'n'tan.
G and E class locos carried both black with white bands at the top, and same with tan at the bottom. Generally, a black loco had CIE roundels on the sides, while a b'n't loco did not. On E class locos, the orange was "full height", i.e. matching the levels up to below-window-level on carriages, or thereabouts. On G class locos the tan was a strip about a foot high from platform level. Both "full height" and "lower strip" tan bands were to be seen on A and C class locos at various times; you will know what I mean if I refer to these variations as "high" and "low" tan sides.
Newly delivered 141s did not have a CIE roundel below the number on the sides, though these were added with later repaints, whereas 181s had them from the outset.
Some C class locos, while black, had yellow ends; on these the loco number was in black. I do not have the details of which locos had which variations and when, but I may be able to dig this out in which case I will post it.
A class locomotives had a tale to be told. This was the subject of an article in the August 1969 Irish Railfan's News, the following being a summary which would be invaluable for those modelling these locomotives in a 1960s setting.
There were sixty of these engines - the largest class of any Irish locomotive bar the GSWR 101s - built in 1955. They were delivered in all over silver, bogies and all, with "flying snails" and numerals in light green, and red buffer beams. This livery had extremely poor durability - probably worse than any other finish any rail vehicle has ever been in! A realistic approach to modelling this would be to look at photos of locos in this livery in traffic - they were a filthy grey in use, and the story got worse by degrees! Not surprisingly, CIE did not perpetuate this more than 5 years or so, with the lighter green as seen on the Dublin RPSI coaches taking over shortly, though not before A46 appeared in the older dark green, with light green line along the middle (as on DCDR's coach 3223 at present) in May 1958.
From here, the story became complicated.
Following A46's debut in dark green, A36 appeared in the then new lighter green, but without the lighter waistband. However, despite the lighter green being the new "post-silver" livery, the following emerged over the next few months in the dark green with waistband: A10, 11, 15, 24, 25, 34, 45, 51, 54, 57, 59 & 60. So by late 1959, one lloco is in light green, 13 in dark green, and the rest in varying stages of the fifty million shades of silvery grey!
From 1960 the lighter version began to appear on all locomotives on a wide scale. A46 itself received this late in the year. No other loco started in dark green and was repainted light green - others went from silver to one form of green, then to black'n'tan or black. By the end of 1961 and locomotives still in silver were really in a deplorable state, in many cases the numerals being barely legible as they seemed to have tendency to wear off.
In September 1961 A6 appeared in an experimental livery described at the time as "black, golden brown and white". The IRN and the IRRS journals of the day doggedly stuck to this description of the light tan, which was in reality a browny-tinted orange. The loco had "high" tan sides. During 1962/3 this livery spread, though after the first few locos were thus treated the white strip above window level became narrower - the more familiar width perpetuated right through to the 1990s on Cravens.
However, in 1962 A16 appeared in traffic in newly painted silver!
By 1963/4, the story was:
Black'n'tan: 1-3, 5-8, 12, 14, 15, 17, 20, 22-4, 27, 31, 36, 37, 39, 40, 47, 48, 50, 52, 56 & 58. The tan was "high" level - same as on carriages. Trains thus formed had a very uniform look.
Dark Green with waist level lighter green line: 10, 11, 25, 34, 45, 51, 54, 57, 59 & 60.
Plain Light Green, no line; OR silver (a few; not sure which): 4, 9, 13, 16*, 18, 19, 21, 26, 28-30, 32, 33, 35, 38, 41-44, 46, 49, 53, 55. (* 1962 painted silver)
As if that wasn't complicated enough, A30 appeared in plain black in early 1964, as seen nowadays on Downpatrick's A39, but with orange buffer beams. Livery detail for modellers here: apart from a few rare one-offs, the general rule is that if there is tan at all, the upper white line continues right round the body sides, whereas if the loco is otherwise all black, the white bits are ONLY on the ends. An exception was the G class: white all round the top of the cab (though black roof, of course) irrespective of whether the loco had tan or not. Also, tan locos had no "broken wheel" on the sides, whereas black ones did in later days, but (as on DCDR's A39 now, and A30 as described above) did. A49 and A55 followed suit, but no other locos were thus treated. The orange buffer beams did not last long, soon being repainted red; otherwise the black livery remained the same.
By 1968 most of the class were repainted in this black livery, though the central side numeral gave way to numerals in the more familiar position on each end of the lower body side, with a "broken wheel" where the number had previously been. But A54 was still a dishevelled dark green (and temporarily out of use) and 1, 15, 22, 37, and 52 were black and "high" tan. A16 had a unique variation; having been b'n't, her sides had been painted black for her appearance in a film "Darling Lili", but her ends were b'n't... for a while!
In June 1968, A52 received the rectangular yellow patch on the front that was to become a short-lived feature on a few locos on the A and C classes, and the B113/4 pair. The loco number was painted on this in black, but the livery was otherwise unchanged. However, A15 was repainted after it, in the standard all-black.
By late 1969, A22, 37, 58R* and 59R* were black'n'tan. All others were black and white, with the following having received yellow ends: A4, 12, 13, 20, 24, 31, 34, 50, 52 & 55.
* The "R" following the number indicated that the loco had had its original Crossley engine replaced by a GM one during the re-engining or "transplant" process. Externally no changes were evident, but on re-engined locos the tan changed to the "low" version. This involved the ends remaining the same, but the formerly mid-height tan band on the sides dropping behind the cabside doors to a band (from memory) about 1 foot or 18 inches high... photos indicate this.
By the time the re-engining process was complete, in parallel with a similar process on the C class (whose livery history had been more or less an exact parallel of the above), the new "Supertrain" livery was coming into being.
Below window level, it was the same, but the changes were above this. Carriages had formerly had a white line above the windows, then more black right over the roof, but now the new "a/c" (Mk 2) stock had the same tan as below windows right over the roof and no white line, giving an impression of an all-tan coach with a black band covering window level only. Numerals were on the ends instead of the sides, giving a smooth and streamlined appearance.
The first locomotives to be treated with this new livery were A's, as they were now being used in a new lease of life on main expresses all over the country. Unlike coaches, locos had a number at each end of the bodyside, low down, and one on the ends, above a CIE roundel; loco ends were the only places where the CIE logo was to be seen on the "Supertrain" livery. "A"'s received tan sides, tan roofs and tan ends, with just the mid-bodyside black band, which dipped at the ends, for relief. The white lines were gone - for the time being! Initially the white numerals on the ends had orange shading if on a black background (A class) and later on with a black background when on tan, as seen on 141s once they started being repainted. I don't remember ever seeing shaded numerals on a 121; I think they were plain white from the start, as the shaded ones became with their first repaint.
Numerals on the sides of locos retained their shading.
(ctd)
Top Posters For This Question
30
8
8
8
Popular Days
Jan 5
13
Aug 12
12
Sep 24
10
Sep 10
6
Top Posters For This Question
jhb171achill 30 posts
hexagon789 8 posts
DJ Dangerous 8 posts
Leyny 8 posts
Popular Days
Jan 5 2013
13 posts
Aug 12 2020
12 posts
Sep 24 2020
10 posts
Sep 10 2022
6 posts
Popular Posts
jhb171achill
PART 1 (of 2) We're all well aware of the changeover from green to black'n'tan in the early '60s. But it wasn't a case of everything being green one day, and repainted uniformly the following Mond
hexagon789
Here we are, 224 shunts Supertrain AC stock at Hueston in late-September 1978:
Mayner
According to Irish Metrovick Diesels B201s for a short while B201s worked Dublin-Cork Trains of 6-7 MK 2D coaches in the 1972 timetable. The 13:30 ex Heuston & 17:30 ex Cork were regular B201 haul
Posted Images
101 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.