2024 Irish Model Speculation Thread!

[derek]

2 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Patience is in order,  we waited a long time for the 121 but we got them eventually. Paddy is indeed a one man operation and that probably contributes enormously to the viability of his business but being relatively small probably has an impact on his influence with the producers. He may announce something but may have little control if for example the production run is bumped. What do we know about this rerun, is it being commissioned from Bachmann as before or independently by MM?

My point exactly. There is no information at all being given out. At least come out and tell us if there is going to be a delay. This attitude of "just wait for us indefinitely" is not on. Maybe @BosKonay could shed some light, but it doesn't sound like it.

[BosKonay]

26 minutes ago, derek said:

My point exactly. There is no information at all being given out. At least come out and tell us if there is going to be a delay. This attitude of "just wait for us indefinitely" is not on. Maybe @BosKonay could shed some light, but it doesn't sound like it.

I’d love to but at the moment we don’t have a timeline or even a confirmed price. 

[DiveController]

23 hours ago, patrick said:

My money is on a 30 ton van.

I could certainly do with one, or two or….

just got some 20T from @Mayner but tbh I could even find a use for a 10T for early stuff too. There were many iterations of wooden vertical and horizontal off the top of my head plus various duckets and paneled sheet versions 

Edited January 7 by DiveController

[leslie10646]

45 minutes ago, DiveController said:

I could certainly do with one, or two or….

just got some 20T from @Mayner but tbh I could even find a use for a 10T for early stuff too. There were many iterations of wooden vertical and horizontal off the top of my head plus various duckets and paneled sheet versions 

Well, you know where to come to for that!

One of the nicest wagons Michael did for me. I've still got a few!

[Patrick Davey]

Two steam projects - interesting!  My money is still on one (or both?) being preserved RPSI, maybe one blue and one green/black/grey although I’m still not convinced that IRM would overshadow OO Works with an even better J15.  And I suppose it doesn’t even have to be a preserved locomotive, since the OO Works U and UG sold out…. 

[leslie10646]

29 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Two steam projects - interesting!  My money is still on one (or both?) being preserved RPSI, maybe one blue and one green/black/grey although I’m still not convinced that IRM would overshadow OO Works with an even better J15.  And I suppose it doesn’t even have to be a preserved locomotive, since the OO Works U and UG sold out…. 

TWO steam projects, Patrick? What have I missed? I was aware of one.

[jhb171achill]

If you think of what HAS been done RTR in Irish steam - we've several re-liveried (and inaccurately, at that) British locos e.g. a Lima (was it? Or Bachmann?) LMS 0.6.0, a "toy" Hornby 0.4.0T with a flying snail the size of China on it, plus:

1.   00 Works GNR 4.4.0

2.  00 Works GNR 0.6.0

3.  00 Works CBSCR 0.6.0T

4.  NCC Jinty

5.  Bachmann "Woolwiches" in several liveries

6.  00 Works J15s (2 varieties)

Now, of all of those, only (5) and (6) were in any way a common loco, seen in many places. The two GNR locos were common in their own area, but over the life of the GNR for a comparatively short time in those vresions. They were unknown south or west of Dublin bar a handful of early 1960s forays.

The Bandon loco was of a prototype seen nowhere but West Cork (and, ahem, Dugort Harbour); but few in number, scrapped at an early stage, and never seen anywhere else. The "Jinty" never even pulled regular trains - it shoved trucks about Belfast docks and did nothing else; moreover, IT was relatively short lived in Ireland too - and there were but two, and even one of these only lasted about ten years.

So, out of seven locos (counting the J15s with small and big boilers and tenders as two locos, only three were common. The others varied from the short lived to the restricted use to the restricted area; in the case of the Jintys, one example more than simply a "one-off".

Thus, commonality in any shape or form will clearly not be any issue if the subject matter is either (a) easy to produce; (b) a popular locomotive (like, say, a Jeep or 171); or (c) for some very specific reason the makers think they can flog a reasonable few of them. Anything could turn up, from a common, well-travelled thing like a MGWR J18 or J26, even a 400, a GNR 4.4.0 like a Q, S, V or Vs, or possibly an NCC "Mogul" or "Jeep".  Alternately, and I just take this as a hypothetical example, some one-off like the big eight coupled No. 900, or the BCDR 4.6.4T, or the SLNCR's "Lough Erne" could become a nice collector's item. (Stop that drooling, Galteemore, someone has to clear it up....!)

Either way, if it's steam, I will need to concoct an excuse for it to go to Dugort Harbour.....

[Patrick Davey]

On 1/1/2024 at 4:10 PM, BosKonay said:

In terms of delivery, 2024 is scheduled to see the following delivered to customers, in no particular order:

• ICR Sets
• Bulleid Range (Flats, opens, perhaps some more)
• NIR Mk2b packs
• IRM Mk2c Packs
• Park Royals
• Murphy Models Mk2ds
• [Probably] Murphy Models 141/181 rerun (minimal details on the timeline just yet)

Beyond that into 2025, 26, there are four Diesel Projects, Two steam, Three coach, four wagon / freight stock and some accessory projects 'actively' underway as well as some overlapping Accurascale ranges that will feature IRM elements, all of which will be revealed once they have reached an advanced point (around about when Engineering samples / prototypes (*EP's) are in hand during 2024. 

See the above @leslie10646

 

 

[Ironroad]

35 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Either way, if it's steam, I will need to concoct an excuse for it to go to Dugort Harbour.....

Maybe you could do that for 461 and just maybe it has sufficient commonality. I believe it operated on passenger and freight services widely across the network (south of the border) between 1923 and 1962, and again in preservation from 1990. Even those modelling realively recent times can justify it hauling models of RPSI stock. 

Edited January 8 by Ironroad
typo

[jhb171achill]

23 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Maybe you could do that for 461 and just maybe it has sufficient commonality. I believe it operated on passenger and freight services widely across the network (south of the border) between 1923 and 1962, and again in preservation from 1990. Even those modelling realively recent times can justify it hauling models of RPSI stock. 

Not so much, as it happens! It was one of but two, and they were built specifically for the Wexford goods. They spent their working life on this almost to the end, straying only for the odd enthusiast or GAA special in late CIE days. Outside the Dublin - Wexford route, they were virtually (and in most cases, literally) unknown until RPSI days. In preservation, thyey got as far as Derry, Portrush, Tralee and Foynes! In service it didn't pull passenger trains often for the reasons above, and most of what little passenger work it did do was in its last few years. I think I've seen a pic of it on a DSER section commuter train in late CIE times, but I could be mistaken on that.

Mind you, if a RTR one appeared, the RPSI might well organise a May Tour to go to Dugort Harbour - now, how to get a rake of the Whitehead Heritage set!

Edited January 8 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

"Lough Erne" could become a nice collector's item. (Stop that drooling, Galteemore, someone has to clear it up....!)

Thanks Jb, but the Small and Large Tanks have the aesthetic edge over the Loughs ! Re the DSER moguls, they were well travelled in early life- one of the few DSE classes to see north of Dublin. Arriving during the Civil War, they were sent to Adelaide for safety (the irony of this to a child of the 70s is hilarious). Fred Graham, who saw the engines in steam at Adelaide, swore they were green…. 

[leslie10646]

7 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

See the above @leslie10646

 

 

Ah yes, EVENTUALLY! 2025/6!

[Mayner]

19 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

Ah yes, EVENTUALLY! 2025/6!

BosKoney (Stephen) has stated that there are two steam projects for 2025/6  which will be revealed once they have reached an advanced point when Engineering samples / prototypes (*EP's) are in hand during 2024. 

Based on IRMs track record for accuracy they likely to be locos that they could physically measure/scan, there is too much guess work involved to produce a model from surviving CIE/GSR diagrams, very few detail drawings of CIE steam locos survive.

Interestingly the RPSI scanned their loco fleet about 15 years ago in the expectation that a rtr manufacturer would produce models of some of their locos.

[jhb171achill]

7 hours ago, Galteemore said:

……….one of the few DSE classes to see north of Dublin. Arriving during the Civil War, they were sent to Adelaide for safety (the irony of this to a child of the 70s is hilarious). Fred Graham, who saw the engines in steam at Adelaide, swore they were green…. 

Ah, but that was a one-off before they entered traffic!

Fred told me that too, years ago - I wonder was it some sort of undercoat, as all other eyewitnesses, without exception, said it was black (which, indeed, was the DSER livery!). Fred was not a man given to making mistakes, but this one always puzzled me….

[Galteemore]

21 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Ah, but that was a one-off before they entered traffic!

Fred told me that too, years ago - I wonder was it some sort of undercoat, as all other eyewitnesses, without exception, said it was black (which, indeed, was the DSER livery!). Fred was not a man given to making mistakes, but this one always puzzled me….

Yes, given that in 1922 every other engine in Adelaide was black (no GNRI blue or green then!)  something must have stood out for Fred! 

Edited January 8 by Galteemore

[Ironroad]

15 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Two steam projects - interesting!  My money is still on one (or both?) being preserved RPSI, maybe one blue and one green/black/grey although I’m still not convinced that IRM would overshadow OO Works with an even better J15.  And I suppose it doesn’t even have to be a preserved locomotive, since the OO Works U and UG sold out…. 

Over a year ago Stephen indicated a J15 was not on the more immediate  agenda, but didn't rule it out in the long term

[jhb171achill]

Well, I’m going to guess at least one is an RPSI yoke - 4, 461, 171 or 85….

[derek]

23 hours ago, BosKonay said:

I’d love to but at the moment we don’t have a timeline or even a confirmed price. 

Thanks for that. As I said, I know its out of your hands. You lads at IRM are very good at updates on your own projects and they are very much appreciated. Thanks again

On 7/1/2024 at 4:09 PM, MOGUL said:

From where I’m sitting, they are fairly imminent…..

Not enough to have a file waiting on my desk for tomorrow morning like the MK2Ds, or a file in the pile like the IRM MK2s but they are in the pipeline 

Hi Andrew, I was under the impression that they were imminent as well, but we can live in hope. Don't suppose you have anything solid to base that on? 

[mfjoc]

Has the footbridge project been shelved completly ?

I need on for the layout

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, derek said:

Thanks for that. As I said, I know its out of your hands. You lads at IRM are very good at updates on your own projects and they are very much appreciated. Thanks again

Hi Andrew, I was under the impression that they were imminent as well, but we can live in hope. Don't suppose you have anything solid to base that on? 

Yes I arrange the shipping for Paddy, so probably know better than anyone where everything is! The MK2Ds should be here late this week/early next week..

141/181s, it will be tight if they are ready before Chinese new year in early February, but we should see them by Easter I would imagine 

[BosKonay]

28 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

Yes I arrange the shipping for Paddy, so probably know better than anyone where everything is! The MK2Ds should be here late this week/early next week..

141/181s, it will be tight if they are ready before Chinese new year in early February, but we should see them by Easter I would imagine 

Be good to know how much they are if they are that close!

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

6 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Be good to know how much they are if they are that close!

Sure would

[MOGUL]

48 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Be good to know how much they are if they are that close!

That’s one for the man himself, I am but a small cog! 

[BosKonay]

33 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

That’s one for the man himself, I am but a small cog! 

Small perhaps, but utterly vital

[derek]

22 hours ago, MOGUL said:

Yes I arrange the shipping for Paddy, so probably know better than anyone where everything is! The MK2Ds should be here late this week/early next week..

141/181s, it will be tight if they are ready before Chinese new year in early February, but we should see them by Easter I would imagine 

great to know, thanks. takes the "probably" out of the scenario

[BosKonay]

1 hour ago, derek said:

great to know, thanks. takes the "probably" out of the scenario

We’ll let the price be a surprise when they land

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

2 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

We’ll let the price be a surprise when they land

[DJ Dangerous]

While we're all having fun speculating, may I throw this into the mix?

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/2531-irish-shunters

The real question is O Gauge or OO Gauge???

 

 

[BosKonay]

42 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

While we're all having fun speculating, may I throw this into the mix?

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/2531-irish-shunters

The real question is O Gauge or OO Gauge???

 

 

Yer some stalker DJ!

[DJ Dangerous]

3 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Yer some stalker DJ!

 

I'm the Coastguard...

 

 

[derek]

23 hours ago, BosKonay said:

We’ll let the price be a surprise when they land

Ha ha. At least they are on the way. PROBABLY

[DJ Dangerous]

So, to have more speculative fun...

I know that @BosKonay said something that could be interpreted as a Genesis type project being beneath IRM's usual standards, here:

 

On 8/11/2023 at 5:46 PM, BosKonay said:

For me i’ve ordered some of the CIE ones but ultimately they’re not really a ‘model’ more an impression so i’d rather spend the money on accurate models  

 

But I think that a "GeneScale" project under the Accurascale / IRM brands would go down quite well, and fully agree with @Mayner here:

 

9 hours ago, Mayner said:

Its just about possible IRM or Accurascale are the contract manufacturer for the Hattons 6-wheelers, Accurascale took on the Hattons Class 66 tooling in 2022 upgraded the model and incorporated it into the Accrascale range.

Stephen's recent posts indicate that IRM have insider information on the state of manufacture of the Hattons coaches.

If an Irish manufacturer controls the Hattons 6-w tooling their is every point in retaining and using the toolings and adding to the bottom line potentially cross-subsidising the manufacture of marginally profitable or loss making Irish models.

 

 

Trying to launch 100% accurate examples of all of the original four and six wheel coaching stock in Ireland and the UK, with so many one-offs and prototypical variants, in my opinion, would be impractical.

A GeneScale launch would also cover that IRM / Accurascale shared project alluded to earlier!

 

On 1/1/2024 at 4:10 PM, BosKonay said:

In terms of delivery, 2024 is scheduled to see the following delivered to customers, in no particular order:

• ICR Sets
• Bulleid Range (Flats, opens, perhaps some more)
• NIR Mk2b packs
• IRM Mk2c Packs
• Park Royals
• Murphy Models Mk2ds
• [Probably] Murphy Models 141/181 rerun (minimal details on the timeline just yet)

Beyond that into 2025, 26, there are four Diesel Projects, Two steam, Three coach, four wagon / freight stock and some accessory projects 'actively' underway as well as some overlapping Accurascale ranges that will feature IRM elements, all of which will be revealed once they have reached an advanced point (around about when Engineering samples / prototypes (*EP's) are in hand during 2024. 

 

[226 Abhann na Suire]

I wonder would a steam ‘genny’ van be  something IRM would do… I know silverfox had a converted version of it in kit form from a BR MkI but is a RTR model something that could be worth IRM’s while…?

2 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

So, to have more speculative fun...

I know that @BosKonay said something that could be interpreted as a Genesis type project being beneath IRM's usual standards, here:

 

 

But I think that a "GeneScale" project under the Accurascale / IRM brands would go down quite well, and fully agree with @Mayner here:

 

 

Trying to launch 100% accurate examples of all of the original four and six wheel coaching stock in Ireland and the UK, with so many one-offs and prototypical variants, in my opinion, would be impractical.

A GeneScale launch would also cover that IRM / Accurascale shared project alluded to earlier!

 

 

Also some very very interesting stuff here… @BosKonay been awful quiet since this dropped… 

Edited January 11 by 226 Abhann na Suire

[DJ Dangerous]

22 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

I wonder would a steam ‘genny’ van be  something IRM would do… I know silverfox had a converted version of it in kit form from a BR MkI but is a RTR model something that could be worth IRM’s while…?

Also some very very interesting stuff here… @BosKonay been awful quiet since this dropped… 

Back in the pre-Accurascale-being-huge days, I have a feeling that the IRM lads implied that a Mk1 BCK / BSK based GSV's wouldn't be viable...

However...

https://www.accurascale.com/es-eu/collections/mark-1-coaches

So I'd say Irish GSV's are a question of "when" rather than "if".

@BosKonay knows that the Coastguard is watching...

Edited January 11 by DJ Dangerous

[mphoey]

if looking at speculation 

we know paddy murphy is doing the 141 071 201 and mk 3 at some stage he always delivers even if it takes time

irm has said 4 diesels and 2 steam does that include the 071 201 and 141 if not are we looking at c class maybe a D G or E class shunter or even a hunslet.

i reckon 2 of those diesel projects are railcars possibly the 80 class which makes sense and another modern irish one possibly 29000 

steam will be interesting as there are multiple choices and the u ug gsr472 and the j15 classes  by OO works show the interest is there but will it be 2 preserved types and even then there are so many choices between rpsi downpatrick and cavan choices but i think no 4 is a fairly obvious one to do.

carraiges will we get another woodener possibly the laminates as either other modern choices involve dvts to be done mk4 and dietrich sets but these would at least have ready made locos to pull them.

i would love to see the mk1 generating vans done finally and more irish accessories like irish oo scale figures including railway bus  staff gardai and irish fire/ambulance  personal  to match the oo vehicle range available.

the only area that irm is still to break into is the emu area and nothing in the post says it will happen but maybe in a couple of years a dart or a luas tram will appear

Edited January 19 by mphoey
spelling error