Hattons launch 'Irish' range of Genesis Coaches

[DJ Dangerous]

4 hours ago, Edo said:

Hattons now advising May 2024 delivery for these. Lots of delays on production of all sorts of stuff in China at the moment......

 

Like Blackstairs Railway and lemon cookies?

[Edo]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

Like Blackstairs Railway and lemon cookies?

Indeed........well id say i'll be up and running by Christmas!.....

[DJ Dangerous]

Yay, cookies for Christmas!

I wonder if we could somehow merge videos of our respective IKEA units to fool people regarding the layouts.

[jhb171achill]

Question to our learned friends here: Hattons report very healthy interest in the CIE-livery coaches.

Doubtless many here (meself included) have pre-ordered some.

Would anyone be interested in a GSR-liveried range?

Obviously, when CIE took over not everything had green paint slapped over it that very second. As we’ve seen with the 29 class railcars, it took over ten years for the last of them to become “green goddesses”.

There was one C & L coach still in GSR maroon (albeit badly faded) as late as 1956. Thus, any early CIE layout could have a mix of newly-CIE’d coaches, and others still maroon…..

So, for a layout of 1933-45 + a bit after…..? Thoughts?

[Edo]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Question to our learned friends here: Hattons report very healthy interest in the CIE-livery coaches.

Doubtless many here (meself included) have pre-ordered some.

Would anyone be interested in a GSR-liveried range?

Obviously, when CIE took over not everything had green paint slapped over it that very second. As we’ve seen with the 29 class railcars, it took over ten years for the last of them to become “green goddesses”.

There was one C & L coach still in GSR maroon (albeit badly faded) as late as 1956. Thus, any early CIE layout could have a mix of newly-CIE’d coaches, and others still maroon…..

So, for a layout of 1933-45 + a bit after…..? Thoughts?

Count me in for a rake or two

[Flying Snail]

I'd be interested in GSR ... and GSWR

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Question to our learned friends here: Hattons report very healthy interest in the CIE-livery coaches.

Doubtless many here (meself included) have pre-ordered some.

Would anyone be interested in a GSR-liveried range?

Obviously, when CIE took over not everything had green paint slapped over it that very second. As we’ve seen with the 29 class railcars, it took over ten years for the last of them to become “green goddesses”.

There was one C & L coach still in GSR maroon (albeit badly faded) as late as 1956. Thus, any early CIE layout could have a mix of newly-CIE’d coaches, and others still maroon…..

So, for a layout of 1933-45 + a bit after…..? Thoughts?

I’d take a few GSR ones I think 

[Ironroad]

I'd certainly be interested in a few.

[jhb171achill]

This is what I’m thinking!

I would take some myself.

Edited November 7, 2023 by jhb171achill

[Niles]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Question to our learned friends here: Hattons report very healthy interest in the CIE-livery coaches.

Doubtless many here (meself included) have pre-ordered some.

Would anyone be interested in a GSR-liveried range?

Obviously, when CIE took over not everything had green paint slapped over it that very second. As we’ve seen with the 29 class railcars, it took over ten years for the last of them to become “green goddesses”.

There was one C & L coach still in GSR maroon (albeit badly faded) as late as 1956. Thus, any early CIE layout could have a mix of newly-CIE’d coaches, and others still maroon…..

So, for a layout of 1933-45 + a bit after…..? Thoughts?

I'd go for a few certainly...

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Yes sir 

[DiveController]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Question to our learned friends here: Hattons report very healthy interest in the CIE-livery coaches.

Doubtless many here (meself included) have pre-ordered some.

Would anyone be interested in a GSR-liveried range?

Obviously, when CIE took over not everything had green paint slapped over it that very second. As we’ve seen with the 29 class railcars, it took over ten years for the last of them to become “green goddesses”.

There was one C & L coach still in GSR maroon (albeit badly faded) as late as 1956. Thus, any early CIE layout could have a mix of newly-CIE’d coaches, and others still maroon…..

So, for a layout of 1933-45 + a bit after…..? Thoughts?

I understand the livery delay issue but pictures would speak volumes here if that were possible. I would be even more interested in GSR/GSWR if traction was available but right now that would probably amount to a OOworks J15. I liked the SSM GSWR Maroon bogie coaches but never got round to making any. In the absence of any  steam traction option for the period realistically I would probably pass on GSR although I have one of everything green ordered in this range and a couple of BnT brakes

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, DiveController said:

I understand the livery delay issue but pictures would speak volumes here if that were possible. I would be even more interested in GSR/GSWR if traction was available but right now that would probably amount to a OOworks J15. I liked the SSM GSWR Maroon bogie coaches but never got round to making any. In the absence of any  steam traction option for the period realistically I would probably pass on GSR although I have one of everything green ordered in this range and a couple of BnT brakes

The 00 Works J15s (both types) would work well for these, but other than very very small number of SSM or JM Design brass kits, there’s nothing GSWR. Mind you, many GSWR branches were operated almost solely by J15s for decades - Mitchelstown, Newmarket, Kenmare and Castleisland come to mind. So a very reasonable layout could operate with nothing but these, just as a 1970 one could with nothing but 141s.

I’ll find a pic to show the livery details. Basically it’s the same as BCDR / LMSNCC / (British) LMS maroon, as opposed to the very much darker “Guinness”-like hue of the GSWR.

Like in earlier CIE times, a train of passenger stock would rarely have more than two vehicles the same. A brand new GSR Bredin could happily trundle along with a six wheeler built in the 1880s, and a 1915-era wooden bogie.

 

new 

[Niles]

Also on the GSR motive power front, a Bachmann N painted in GSR grey as a Woolwich wouldn't be the most complicated of repaints either... ideally would need a smokebox door wheel to finish it off but that's the case for the MM CIE versions too.

[Ironroad]

2 hours ago, Niles said:

Also on the GSR motive power front, a Bachmann N painted in GSR grey as a Woolwich wouldn't be the most complicated of repaints either... ideally would need a smokebox door wheel to finish it off but that's the case for the MM CIE versions too.

The MM versions were supplied with a smokebox wheel, it was in the bag of add on bits.

[Niles]

28 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

The MM versions were supplied with a smokebox wheel, it was in the bag of add on bits.

I must check, I never copped that in over 20 years of having one. 

[murphaph]

I'd probably have to pass on GSR and earlier stuff, for the moment anyway. I will take anything that would have been on the rails in both 1962ish and 1995ish. Seems like the GSR livery would have been gone by the 60's for sure.

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I'd probably have to pass on GSR and earlier stuff, for the moment anyway. I will take anything that would have been on the rails in both 1962ish and 1995ish. Seems like the GSR livery would have been gone by the 60's for sure.

Yes, absolute last coaches in maroon were early to mid 50s, but really the period 1945-50 is when there would have been more of a mix.

[Westcorkrailway]

see below video of colour footage of a mixed GSR-CIE train in the late 40s (and for extra points the locomotive is an oil burner!)
 

https://ifiarchiveplayer.ie/monsignor-reid-collection-castlerea-train-station/

 

[BosKonay]

For me i’ve ordered some of the CIE ones but ultimately they’re not really a ‘model’ more an impression so i’d rather spend the money on accurate models  

[jhb171achill]

46 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

For me i’ve ordered some of the CIE ones but ultimately they’re not really a ‘model’ more an impression so i’d rather spend the money on accurate models  

Cue the IRM range of MGWR, GSWR & GNR prototypes!!!

[Edo]

1 hour ago, BosKonay said:

For me i’ve ordered some of the CIE ones but ultimately they’re not really a ‘model’ more an impression so i’d rather spend the money on accurate models  

If only you knew somebody in the business.....

[jhb171achill]

Update on this.

Hattons are interested in principle. They are happy with the way the pre-orders for the CIE stuff are going; the black'n'tan van is sold out - despite being the rarest by far.  Every single one of hundreds of these things were withdrawn between 1949 (DSER ones being mostly the early casualties) and the final ones in Cork in early 1963, which had only been retained for Youghal excursions - except - some SIX full vans plus a handful of old Midland thirds which went into departmental use as tool vans etc.

The 6 full vans were all ex-GSWR, of several slightly different designs, one close enough to the generic Hattons design. Of those, probably only three ever became black'n'tan; 69, (now at the DCDR in altered state), 79, 10xx something, and possibly a fourth. Two more saw very little use despite being technically in use till the mid-60s, so it's highly likely they ended their days still green.

Now - we'll all be aware of the lead-in period. The CIE ones were proposed long, long before any announcement; before Hornby did theirs, in fact. thus any expressions of interest at this stage will be, as the Donegal Catch TV ad would say, "filed away in a filin' cyabinet" for the future. Personally, and I know this debate has been done to death elsewhere, i am convinced that with a growing interest in the more historic side of railways here, there WILL be more stuff on the market in the future. It is not too long ago that the grey'n'green era was ignored by both manufacturers and modellers - but then along came Provincial leslie, 00 Works, Bachmann's train set, and IRM's magnificent "A"'s - and now Park Royals.

A single day-to-day type steam loco, RTR, would kick this off, helped by the earlier designs of wagons of our own KMCE, Leslie, and SSM kits. Six-wheelers were the staple of so many trains well into CIE times. A RTR Bredin would be suitabloe to mix with them, back in GSR times' SSM do a nice kit of these.

So - onwards and upwards. I'm away for my cocoa and smelling salts.

[jhb171achill]

An addendum to the above; the variations I have suggested are two of the three GSR liveries, plus the GSWR livery. As non main line stock, I am unaware of any six wheelers ever carrying the brown and cream, which in any event was short lived. So you'd have the very dark Guinness-like very dark red - practically a dark blackish brown - with GSWR markings; then the same with GSR markings (1925-33), then the "LMS" maroon after about 1933. It seems that manufacturers find that the more livery more livery variations, the more viable a project is. (I would have though that the opposite might be the case, but there ye go; IRM might like to comment on the technicalities, out of interest?)

[Flying Snail]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

It seems that manufacturers find that the more livery more livery variations, the more viable a project is. 

The more the merrier! I do think it would kick interest in the pre-CIE eras up a gear. Exciting times 

[jhb171achill]

1 minute ago, Flying Snail said:

The more the merrier! I do think it would kick interest in the pre-CIE eras up a gear. Exciting times 

Yes, I think so. More wagon offerings all the time now, of the 4-wheeled rather than bogie variety.

[Westcorkrailway]

If GSR 6 wheelers went ahead it means (thanks to the 00 works CBSCR Saddle tank) that a RTR Kinsale Branch Train will be possible….tell me that when I started modeling Irish and id have given ya a slap! 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Westcorkrailway

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

This sounds very exciting, I'm learning more and looking forward to more.

[Ironroad]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

 It seems that manufacturers find that the more livery more livery variations, the more viable a project is. 

Perhaps, but it could be a question of diminishing  returns.

Very early on  in I wrote to Hatton's more in hope than expectation requesting they consider producing their genesis coaches in CIE liveries, (I wasn't alone) never believing this might actually happen, and apparently with great success. But back then I think posted here a hope that they might at least,  having exhausted all the liveries that might be viable, do a run of plain unpainted models. My thinking being that that would open the door for anyone wanting to have these models in Irish liveries.  I was wrong the first time round in thinking there would not be enough demand for CIE liveries, and would be delighted to be wrong again in thinking there would not be enough demand for the GSR livery. But in the event that such a proposal is not considered viable, perhaps they can be persuaded to ultimately release unpainted versions. I suspect that would work well for many..

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Ironroad
typo

[DiveController]

12 hours ago, BosKonay said:

For me i’ve ordered some of the CIE ones but ultimately they’re not really a ‘model’ more an impression so i’d rather spend the money on accurate models  

As would we all had there even been a timely announcement  of a pending alternative which doesn't seem likely if you're purchasing these 

[murphaph]

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Cue the IRM range of MGWR, GSWR & GNR prototypes!!!

And as an analogue to Accurascale's Powering Britain range these could form part of the Emigrating Ireland one.

[Westcorkrailway]

51 minutes ago, murphaph said:

And as an analogue to Accurascale's Powering Britain range these could form part of the Emigrating Ireland one.

I wonder how many who only remember the railways from Ireland from there trip to the boat end up buying Irish locos and stock 

[Georgeconna]

46 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I wonder how many who only remember the railways from Ireland from there trip to the boat end up buying Irish locos and stock 

Most people it was Slatterys bus.

[Galteemore]

Or railbus. May 1950 Dromahair 

 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

24 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

Most people it was Slatterys bus.

Gee that brings back memories