Hattons launch 'Irish' range of Genesis Coaches

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, Metrovik said:

Excuse my question but I'm a little late to the party on this, would these coaches be out of place behind the early livery 121 class? Having shockingly bought something new for a change I need to stretch out the use of these as much as I can.....

Yeah as far as I know it was certainly possible for the grey 121 to do such a thing but it would have been quite a rare occurrence if it did happen. 
 

Worth pointing out the above is only relevent to the light green/black n tan coaches. I reckon there was very little to no chance a 121 ever had an excuse to haul around a livery that was almost extinct by the time of there introduction 

Edited January 14 by Westcorkrailway

[jhb171achill]

29 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Yeah as far as I know it was certainly possible for the grey 121 to do such a thing but it would have been quite a rare occurrence if it did happen. 
 

Worth pointing out the above is only relevent to the light green/black n tan coaches. I reckon there was very little to no chance a 121 ever had an excuse to haul around a livery that was almost extinct by the time of there introduction 

In "time" terms, possible. The 121s appeared in 1961 and the very last six-wheelers were withdrawn in early 1963.

However, there were only so many 121s, and they were actually used a lot on freight in their first year or two; passenger usage was all main line. None ever worked regularly on branches, and six-wheelers were by then only to be found on the Ballinrobe, Loughrea, ballaghadarreen and Kenmare branches, all of which were fully steam worked until after the last six wheelers were withdrawn.

However, every good rule has an exception. Cork retained a couple of rakes of the six wheelers right to the end, and they were retained for use on Youghal excursions. It is therefore at least theoretically possible that a 121 hauled one of these - it would have to have only been in the summer of 1962. I'd almost lay money on it that they didn't, but they COULD have - and as always, "Rule 1" applies! I've an 00 Works CBSCR saddle tank on Dugort Harbour until the end of steam in '63, some sixteen years after the last of the real thing was scrapped!

There's another exception. Several ex-GSWR FULL passenger brakes wre in use until 1968-70, and these are the inspiration for the Hattons black'n'tan brakes. THESE certainly WERE hauled by 121s, in particular on the galway mail trains - but in black'n'tan days.

36 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Worth pointing out the above is only relevant to the light green/black n tan coaches. I reckon there was very little to no chance a 121 ever had an excuse to haul around a livery that was almost extinct by the time of there introduction 

Correct - a 121 hauling anything in the darker green livery wouldn't have happened - it was not to be seen on main lines by the time 121s appeared. Lighter green in the circumstances described above.

Of course, when 121s first appeared in grey, ALL passenger stock, including the most modern laminates, were green, or else the short-lived "silver". The earliest vehicles in black and tan started to appear when the 121s were some 18 months old.

[Metrovik]

Thanks lads unfortunately I've ordered the dark green ones so no grey 121 haulage,(without a very good reason) @jhb171achill I noticed that earlier on in this thread that you said the dark green coaches lasted until 1955 with some lasting until later, may I ask, what were the circumstances surrounding this?

[jhb171achill]

14 minutes ago, Metrovik said:

Thanks lads unfortunately I've ordered the dark green ones so no grey 121 haulage,(without a very good reason) @jhb171achill I noticed that earlier on in this thread that you said the dark green coaches lasted until 1955 with some lasting until later, may I ask, what were the circumstances surrounding this?

Simply the fact that they didn’t get round to repainting literally every single vehicle by the time the black’n’tan started to make its presence felt.

The last dark green passenger-carrying vehicles in regular use, if we discount several narrow gauge vehicles, seem to have been several old relics in West Cork and at least one 6-wheeled brake third on the Valentia line.

Edited January 14 by jhb171achill

[Mayner]

Its just about possible that B121s hauled green ex-GSWR 6 wheeler. B121s apparently worked Galway-Tuam trains between turns on Dublin (Westland Row)-Galway passenger (Mail?) trains during their 1st year of operation, for a short time crews apparently turned the locos to run 'long hood' forward. (IRRS Dublin meeting early 1980s)

Galway-Tuam trains appears to have been worked by ex-GSWR 6w stock up to and during the early CIE era, mix of 6w and bogie stock during the 50s.  From mid-50s Tuam trains appear to have been a couple of Bredin or earlier Bogies and pair 6w vans. Its just about possible a depot like Cork could put a rake of green 6wheelers together for a seaside excursion to Youghal. 

The B121s were initially introduced on less demanding duties such as mail, slow passenger and goods and only rostered to more demanding Top Link duties such as the Enterprise after they had proven their reliability and capability in service. Apparently it was once considered allocating the 121s to the K rather than B power classification as they had a lower power output and tractive effort than the B101 Class.

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

The last dark green passenger-carrying vehicles in regular use, if we discount several narrow gauge vehicles, seem to have been several old relics in West Cork and at least one 6-wheeled brake third on the Valentia line.

Even so. I’ve only heard one 121 going across the city railway. And even then they only made it as far as ballyphehane! 

[jhb171achill]

54 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

Even so. I’ve only heard one 121 going across the city railway. And even then they only made it as far as ballyphehane! 

Wasn't even aware that any of them even ventured over there at ll..... but we can discount them pulling trains there! Youghal's the best bet, or as mayner says, very outside chance Galway - Tuam.

Actually, Limerick - Sligo went all railcar prior to the 121s, so not on that service - but possibly a Tuam local?

[DJ Dangerous]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:47 AM, DJ Dangerous said:

 

A rake of OO Gauge coaches for your N Gauge layout?

To all who may be interested, as of right now, the following four Genesis coaches are the only ones still available to pre-order.

Even though the images says that they're sold out, they ARE available to pre-order, at this moment.

All the rest are showing as unavailable.

1. https://www.hattons.co.uk/1056107/hattons_originals_h4_6bs_1702a_6_wheel_brake_2nd_100_in_cie_light_green/stockdetail

2. https://www.hattons.co.uk/1056108/hattons_originals_h4_6bs_1702b_6_wheel_brake_2nd_101_in_cie_light_green/stockdetail

3. https://www.hattons.co.uk/1056100/hattons_originals_h4_6bt_1701a_6_wheel_brake_3rd_102_in_cie_dark_green/stockdetail

4. https://www.hattons.co.uk/1056101/hattons_originals_h4_6bt_1701b_6_wheel_brake_3rd_90_in_cie_dark_green/stockdetail

Enjoy!

 

The only one of the four that is still available as of right now is:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/1056101/hattons_originals_h4_6bt_1701b_6_wheel_brake_3rd_90_in_cie_dark_green/stockdetail

 

 

[jhb171achill]

For anyone who wanted to put together a very minimalistic small, sleepy branch terminus shunting layout, a thing like this and a loco and a few wagons is ideal. Services like the Clonakility line and Drimoleague to Baltimore in the late 1950s could often consist of simply one brake coach like this and a few wagons.

[DJ Dangerous]

I received an email from Hatton's this morning, as per @Tarabuses post here, saying that Rails of Sheffield are taking over all pre-orders placed for the Genesis coaches:

https://railsofsheffield.com/search?q=genesis

Nothing published on the Rails website, yet, but I sent them an email this morning, asking if they needed anything done from the buyer's end.

I will post if / when they reply.

I'd assume that you need to set up an account with Rails if you don't want to lose your Genesis pre-order.

[Niles]

On enquiring, Rails have advised me that there's no need to do anything, "the orders will be transferred automatically as they are" so sounds like a nice hassle free experience, kudos to Hattons and Rails for looking after the customer.

Edited February 6 by Niles

[jhb171achill]

51 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I received an email from Hatton's this morning, as per @Tarabuses post here, saying that Rails of Sheffield are taking over all pre-orders placed for the Genesis coaches:

https://railsofsheffield.com/search?q=genesis

Nothing published on the Rails website, yet, but I sent them an email this morning, asking if they needed anything done from the buyer's end.

I will post if / when they reply.

I'd assume that you need to set up an account with Rails if you don't want to lose your Genesis pre-order.

That's a very good point! My understanding is that we don't have to do anything, but I've an order in for one example of each type of coach and each number, so I certainly don't want to lose it (Dempsey; that'll be another light weathering job!). Plus, on Hattons site, it says (or said) that all in this range are "sold out on pre-order".

[Tarabuses]

It is unfortunate that these coaches have gone to Rails rather than Accurascale.  I have no idea how Rails will deliver these (I had mine going to my trunk with Hattons) or how much postage will cost.

[amdaley]

32 minutes ago, Tarabuses said:

It is unfortunate that these coaches have gone to Rails rather than Accurascale.  I have no idea how Rails will deliver these (I had mine going to my trunk with Hattons) or how much postage will cost.

Postage with Rails will certainly be more expensive than Hattons.

[Georgeconna]

19 minutes ago, amdaley said:

Postage with Rails will certainly be more expensive than Hattons.

My last orders came through rails and with An post, Vat to paid and €3.50 custom fee. 

[Colin R]

I wonder if they intend to carry on the production of these coaches?

 

[Westcorkrailway]

7 minutes ago, Colin R said:

I wonder if they intend to carry on the production of these coaches?

 

While they are facilitating the pre orders for this run, it’s been hinted at that they might not have access to the tooling for future runs…and that a certain other company Does  

[Tarabuses]

5 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

My last orders came through rails and with An post, Vat to paid and €3.50 custom fee. 

I presume they deducted UK VAT from your invoice?

[murphaph]

22 minutes ago, Tarabuses said:

I presume they deducted UK VAT from your invoice?

I'd really like an answer to that too as on Facebook it's being rumoured that Rails won't deduct UK Vat on international orders!

[Flying Snail]

59 minutes ago, Tarabuses said:

I presume they deducted UK VAT from your invoice?

 

36 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I'd really like an answer to that too as on Facebook it's being rumoured that Rails won't deduct UK Vat on international orders!

I transferred my Hatton's pre-order of the Stephenson's Rocket Train Pack to Rails of Sheffield and they shipped it to me last week.

I'm happy to confirm they did not charge UK VAT, it was shipped via Parcelforce and when it reached Ireland I had to pay Irish VAT - as it was a model train no customs import duty was charged.

Edited February 6 by Flying Snail

[murphaph]

Great news. Some crossed wires in Facebook it seems.

[BosKonay]

2 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Great news. Some crossed wires in Facebook it seems.

It’s a common condition

[irishmail]

22 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

 

I transferred my Hatton's pre-order of the Stephenson's Rocket Train Pack to Rails of Sheffield and they shipped it to me last week.

I'm happy to confirm they did not charge UK VAT, it was shipped via Parcelforce and when it reached Ireland I had to pay Irish VAT - as it was a model train no customs import duty was charged.

What was the  fee for the VAT/Customs handling charge if you don't mind me asking?   Anpost I think charge €3.50.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

17 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

It’s a common condition

Putting it mildly

[Flying Snail]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

What was the  fee for the VAT/Customs handling charge if you don't mind me asking?   Anpost I think charge €3.50.

According to my receipt from An Post, they did not apply a VAT/Customs handling charge.

Customs Value: € 212.31

Import Duty: € 0.00
Excise Duty: € 0.00
VAT: € 48.83
An Post Fee: € 0.00
 

So, just the standard 23% VAT on  the Customs Value declared by Rails (i.e  the £ ex-VAT price)

[Ironroad]

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

I'd really like an answer to that too as on Facebook it's being rumoured that Rails won't deduct UK Vat on international orders!

For what it's worth I ordered a 121 loco from them for shipment to the US and they deducted the VAT automatically. Overall my impression is that they are very professional and on a par with Hattons. I wouldn't be worried.

[amdaley]

3 hours ago, Tarabuses said:

I presume they deducted UK VAT from your invoice?

 

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

I'd really like an answer to that too as on Facebook it's being rumoured that Rails won't deduct UK Vat on international orders!

Rails always deduct the UK Vat.

Postage can be a little higher than Hattons but the orders are securely packed & arrive by registered Royal Mail post.

When the parcel arrives in Dublin you are sent a card by An Post with details of the Vat to be paid.

Once the Vat is paid online the package is released for delivery.

Whether you are charged the An Post handling fee of €3-50 seems to be a bit hit & miss.

[Flying Snail]

I still can't see any of my CIE Genesis Coaches in the pre-orders section of my Rails account. I was on to Rails' customer chat a couple of weeks back and they said that they hadn't received any details from Hattons yet.

I'm beginning to get a little nervous now again and I'll follow-up with them again soon But before I do -  I'd like to check if anyone here has received confirmation about their  pre-orders?

[Railway Lyons]

Was only thinking the same today. Have heard nothing from Rails in regard to pre-order being moved over. 

They should be due in next few months, so hopefully they have not gone the way of the dodo, and it's just settling time after Hattons doors closing.

[Flying Snail]

3 minutes ago, Railway Lyons said:

They should be due in next few months, so hopefully they have not gone the way of the dodo, and it's just settling time after Hattons doors closing.

I expect you're right, and there's plenty of time yet before they're due.

[BosKonay]

16 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

I expect you're right, and there's plenty of time yet before they're due.

The coaches themselves are due to be completed and shipping around May / June so there is still time for rails to get the data sorted.

[Flying Snail]

1 minute ago, BosKonay said:

The coaches themselves are due to be completed and shipping around May / June so there is still time for rails to get the data sorted.

I blame you @BosKonay - if Accurascale hadn't been so proactive and on the ball with the pre-orders for the ranges you took over from Hattons, I wouldn't be getting nervous!!    

[BosKonay]

3 hours ago, Flying Snail said:

I blame you @BosKonay - if Accurascale hadn't been so proactive and on the ball with the pre-orders for the ranges you took over from Hattons, I wouldn't be getting nervous!!    

Sorry  

[mmie353]

I contacted Rails about this and they said it may take several weeks for them to complete the process from Hattons. They told me they will be reaching out to those to placed pre-orders for them. So we wait a little more.... 

[DiveController]

11 hours ago, mmie353 said:

I contacted Rails about this and they said it may take several weeks for them to complete the process from Hattons. They told me they will be reaching out to those to placed pre-orders for them. So we wait a little more.... 

Also reached out to Rails, same reply. Maybe a little more time. But it does show how desirable the Genesis coaches are, given the lack of anything similar or better out there (rtr)