RTR Wagons - What next?

[Hunslet 102]

Irish railway modelling has come a long way in a short space of time,certainly for the diesel era.Model bashing,scratch building and kits were all we had not so long ago.How many of us have now packed away our MIR 141s and 071s for the great RTR versions from Murphy's.Review an MIR model today and it would not be as favourable as a review from as short a time as 5 years ago,this is by no means having a go at MIR,without who many of us would not have even ventured into Irish modelling.Standards have improved greatly and our own demands have become higher as a result.Therefore,as a result,we tend to be more critical.

 

This thread was started by Leslie of Provincial Wagons asking what wagons we would like RTR.Leslie has moved with the times,looking to produce proper RTR Irish wagons,moving on from his earlier British RTR repaints,which were and still are very suitable to most of us.The other suppliers mentioned,who I have none of their products to give an opinion on,seem to have entered the marketplace at a time when our own demands for RTR are at their highest.Therefore,if suppliers products are not up to standard or are to expensive,it is in our interests that this is highlighted.It is also in their interests as it gives them the opportunity to respond as they see fit.

 

Most of us now live in a time where disposable income is probably at its lowest.We want the best of products at the most reasonable of prices.If a suppliers product is not up to standard or to expensive,we have the ultimate control ourselves,we can decide whether we open our wallets/purses or not.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Hunslet 102

[heirflick]

Most of us now live in a time where disposable income is probably at its lowest.We want the best of products at the most reasonable of prices.If a suppliers product is not up to standard or to expensive,we have the ultimate control ourselves,we can decide whether we open our wallets/purses or not.

 

i think that just about sums it up for me - if i dont like it, i wont buy it!

[WRENNEIRE]

Fran i dont want to fall out with you and be accused of twisting your words but to keep you happy and do what you have requested i will go on to Glendergs work bench later and write a review ( constructive criticism ) of his 30 ton brake van build so that i am not going on about it.

Regards Gareth.

 

Is there alcohol involved here?

Cant seem to get the jist of this post?

"I will write a review so that i am not going on about it."

Did I get that right?

[201bhoy]

Is there alcohol involved here?

Cant seem to get the jist of this post?

"I will write a review so that i am not going on about it."

Did I get that right?

 

Yes, I think it's that he doesn't want to drag the thread away anymore from it's topic, so he'll do it somewhere more appropriate.

[Mayner]

I suppose it boils down to balancing expectations and price. Leslie initially mentioned a 20' skeleton container flat, Bulleid Open and possibly a Cement bubble in the £20-30, in resin similar to Leslies other hand built wagons. Presumably hand finished vacuum resin castings from a scratchbuilt master.

 

A number of people have suggested using a proprietary rtr chassis, the main draw back is that the Dapol or Bachmann chassis are too long and narrow and have running gear that does not look remotely like the standard CIE 20' chassis and they are absolutly no use for a skeletal flat.

 

Provincial Wagons have already proven a correct chassis can be done with the GNR Cattle and Covered Goods Vans, there is little point in continuing to go down the same road using proprietary chassis as IFM & MISOR.

 

The Dapol Prestwin is a tad short but would pass muster for a steel decked wagon or cement bubble, but would add considerably to the final cost.

 

Although I have not seen the Provincial Wagons or MISOR Guinness container wagons in the flesh, the MISOR wagon appears to be a higher priced but better model with the Bachmann chassis set back behind a set of cosmetic solebars presumably cast as part of the wagon deck.

 

As far as the quality of the product goes no one is buying blind the quality of the models is pretty evident from PM & IFM have websites/price lists all of which have photos of the wagons.

[Warbonnet]

Fran i dont want to fall out with you and be accused of twisting your words but to keep you happy and do what you have requested i will go on to Glendergs work bench later and write a review ( constructive criticism ) of his 30 ton brake van build so that i am not going on about it.

Regards Gareth.

 

Don't want to fall out either mate, saw your post on the workbench thread and I think personally you phrased it correctly. We want top modellers on here helping the rest of us out and you have done that.

[leslie10646]

UPDATE

 

First thanks for all the input.

 

You guys will all be cross with me, as we've decided to do the UTA Spoil wagon next, mainly because Colm Flanagan and Co want twenty for a "Muck" train on Bleach Green - I suggested forty, so he could cross a loaded and an unloaded train and give us all an epic photo! I don't think anyone managed that with "the real thing"! Even offered to loan my two WTs to top and tail one of the sets!

 

After that, the original corrugated Bulleid wagon. My man sees it as a good challenge to get it as close as possible to the prototype - especially the corrugations inside and out.

 

However, don't hold your breath - we're talking 2014. I hope to maybe have a prototype wagon by Bangor exhibition next year.

 

If any of you want the spoil wagon, an indication of that fact, plus the number that you want would help! I can't hold you to it, but some idea always helps encourage the modeller to get the job done!

 

e-mail me on lesliemcallister@aol.com

 

Thanks

 

Leslie

Thanks

[BosKonay]

Ohh the spoil sounds lovely. I'd be up for a rake !

[Weshty]

After that, the original corrugated Bulleid wagon.....as close as possible to the prototype...especially the corrugations inside and out.

 

Be still my beating heart! Leslie, I can wait 'til '14 for this one. Good call sir.

[NIRCLASS80]

I would go for 6.

[jhb171achill]

Interesting to see them in their original " duck egg light blue"... But for sure the most accurate way to model them is after a lengthy soak in the great weathering / mud-adding factory in Newry!

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

But for sure the most accurate way to model them is after a lengthy soak in the great weathering / mud-adding factory in Newry!

 

Not a problem weathering them anybody looking any weathered you know where I am.

[Blaine]

Not a problem weathering them anybody looking any weathered you know where I am.

 

Not here any more by the looks of things 'lights cigar'

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Not here any more by the looks of things 'lights cigar'

 

Did you not learn a lesson in Stillorgan ? Anthony,s on Holls for a couple of days back soon.

[Warbonnet]

Less of the inflammatory posts gentlemen. Let's keep things on topic. Thank you.

[Weshty]

Cough!

 

Back on topic, how will the Bullied corrugated sides be done? Thin resin, plastic or pre-pressed thick aluminium foil?

[jhb171achill]

I saw a very satisfactory job done a few years back by a certain member here, which involved using a type of corrugated cardboard which was just the right "look". I'd say light plastic would do the job well.

[Glenderg]

inspired by the corrugated ends of a beef curry tray, it might be possible to "press" thick foil to get the profile of beet opens. Bumps and bends from rough handling, would also "add" to the prototype look! Maybe not for the discerning modeller though....

[Weshty]

inspired by the corrugated ends of a beef curry tray, it might be possible to "press" thick foil to get the profile of beet opens. Bumps and bends from rough handling, would also "add" to the prototype look! Maybe not for the discerning modeller though....

 

Rough Handling, bumps and bends eh? What would the neighbours think??

[patrick]

 

I have been engaged in an ongoing quest to produce Bulleid opens, the ultimate goal to build about 30 of them in order to operate a beet special on my layout. The pictures show the Mark 2 version and the material and home made stamps used to emboss the sides and ends. The overall dimensions were taken from a SSM open wagon. The underframe is from a Dapol meat wagon with the brake gear simplified. The sides are thin copper which I found at a craft store. The copper, which can be cut with a scissors is placed between the stamp and a piece of pine and a hammer is used to form the corrugations on the sides and ends.

Work is underway making improved tooling for the Mark 3 version. Improvements will include a smaller lip on the top edge of the sides and ends which will be soldered together. Door stops will be formed from brass strip.

[jhb171achill]

Looking great!

[Kirley]

Well done Patrick, I bought some copper corrugated sheeting a few years back with the intention of making beet wagons but found it was too thin for wagon bodies.

Looking forward to seeing the Mk 3 version.

[Blaine]

Did you not learn a lesson in Stillorgan ? Anthony,s on Holls for a couple of days back soon.

 

Lesson? Elaborate. PM me and Ill publish it for everyone to see

 

Anyway a spoil wagon will be nice to see, along with any other reasonably priced model that looks right and is built well. A well known ebay seller turned manufacturer should take heed from what Ive just said re quality and price

[heirflick]

 

excelent work Patrick - well done sir!

[Warbonnet]

Lesson? Elaborate. PM me and Ill publish it for everyone to see

 

Let's leave the handbags there. You guys can sort it out away from the board. Let's keep things on course please. Any further posts like these will just be deleted. Thanks lads.

[Weshty]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8920[/ATTACH]

 

excelent work Patrick - well done sir!

 

Now picture that with extra dents, bumbs and some gentle grime, dirt and rusty weathering...oh Vicar!!

[BosKonay]

Oh vicar is right!! The dents and ripples actually make it!

[Guest hidden-agenda]

Patrick you have done a first class job with the wagon that's the closest model i have seen to the real thing.

The bumbs (cough) and general appearance have certainly set the bar high for any one else who could attempt to scratch build a model and your choice of material for making the body is novel to say the least. I made mine from plastic and was sort of stuffed when it came to keeping the corrugations on the inside as i was moulding the bodies and needed a certain thickness of wall to get a some what successful model. Any ways to stay on topic i look forward to more pics of your wagons and your lay-out.

[jhb171achill]

Excellent... Could doubtless also be adapted as a double decker. All it needs now is a liberal dose of weathering filth, a few weeds growing out of an axle box, and a large roughly hand painted "B" on the side to indicate beet-only use!

[patrick]

Thanks for the positive comments. Such feedback is greatly appreciated and encourages progress on the layout. The copper foil I use is rather thin and careful handling of the model is required to avoid bending the sides too much. The first batch I built had two end pieces which wrapped around the sides of the wagon and separate doors, however it was very difficult lining everything up while assembling the model and avoiding unsightly gaps between the sides and doors. For the next batch my friend Louie, a tool and die maker, is milling a piece off steel the size of the interior of the wagon which will be used as a form around which the sides and ends will be soldered together, on the previous models they were glued. Since it is planned to have appropriate rolling stock to run different eras from the mid sixties to the mid seventies the hand painted "B" will not be painted on the sides. If I remember correctly that was first done for the 1976 beet season.

[patrick]

 

I added door stops (Must get larger section brass rod its undersize and especially noticeable in photos), some brake detail and weathering.

[heirflick]

excelent:tumbsup:

[leslie10646]

Well done, Patrick - a real work of art, even got the "bashed to bits" look of the top of these wagons! We could never have done that in resin!

[leslie10646]

Friends

 

With Regret .......

 

The modeller who has so expertly mastered and built my range of handmade models has informed me that he no longer wishes to produce new wagons for me, as it is simply not profitable to him, at current prices. He has a long list of projects of his own to pursue and I cannot blame him for spending his time on rolling stock closer to his own interests! He has recently turned seventy, so who can blame him for concentrating his efforts on his home railway - the pre-grouping Southern (of England!).

 

Those of us who have Michael's wagons running on our layouts owe him (and Joice, who assisted him) a considerable debt of gratitude for wagons which would not have seen the light of day without him. He has produced about 400 for me, to say nothing of an even higher number of bread and beer containers.

 

As a result, there will be a long delay in both the introduction of any new handmade wagons and the production of any further samples of the existing wagons in the range. I hope to be able to get "kits of parts" of the existing models and to have these built elsewhere.

 

I expect future Ready to Run handmade scale models to cost AT LEAST 50% more, depending on my success at finding a replacement builder!

 

I have a few wagons left at the old prices, but when they are gone, they are gone!

 

I DO have SOME bread containers at the prices shown and a VERY few Guinness containers - they may soon be collectors' pieces!

 

I'll keep you informed and will update my website with stock levels as appropriate. Also on my success or otherwise in finding a successor to Michael - believe me I'm looking! I need wagons for (the barely started) Portadown Jct - upstairs in the loft!

 

The first casualty is the proposed spoil wagon kit - my regrets to the owners of Bleach Green and others who had favoured me with a substantial order book!

 

OBVIOUSLY, this has no effect on my "Dapol" repainted wagons, which are still listed on the website!

 

Especially sorry to Paddy, who asked me to "do something" to produce wagons for his superb (I nearly forgot myself and said lovely - they're NOT steam engines!) diesel models.

 

LESLIE

[Kirley]

Sorry to hear the loss of your model maker, his wagons were quite unique. In todays economic climate I'm sure it will be difficult to get a replacement to work for the same costs.

Does this mean your proposed RTR Steam Engine is not going to happen?