From the Catacombs

[minister_for_hardship]

£2 was a big fine for the time.

[jhb171achill]

14 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

£2 was a big fine for the time.

Yes, it actually was. More than a week's wages - for trespassing!

Pity they don't fine people two week's dole for spraying graffiti all over trains and stations nowadays......and if it means they can't eat for that time, tough!

[jhb171achill]

As a teenager in the mid-1930s, my father and his school friends used to head off on adventures deep into the countryside. They went to fish in streams and rivers in faraway remote country villages...... like Lucan....

By tram, of course; and not one person with a bag’o’cans would be on that tram....

They also went to even more wild, exotic and remote remote places like Dundrum or  Carrickmines, where you could get a drink of unpasteurised fresh milk from a farm, where the cows weren’t socially distanced....a train ride on the Harcourt Street line, and look - that coach is still in DSER livery (well, that would have been me, of course...)

[Galteemore]

Lovely stuff. Even inspired a quick research trawl on Willwood/Crosse and Blackwell....http://builtdublin.com/factory-26-kings-inns-street-dublin-1/

[Mayner]

The Lucan and the Clontarf-Howth tramways were probably the nearest thing in Ireland to an American Interurban a modern electric tramway linking a city with an outlying town. The right of way of the Clontarf-Howth line now forms the coast road between Dollymount and the Old Howth Road, the closure of the Lucan line in 1940 seems really shortsighted the DUTC having completely re-built the line to modern standards when it took over the narrow gauge Dublin & Lucan line in the 1920s.

I wonder do any photos exist of the DUTC Clontarf-Howth tram as opposed to the GNR Hill of Howth Tram?

[Irishswissernie]

Trams to the Hill of Howth by James Kilroy published by Colourpoint covers the Clontarf & Hill of Howth line as well with about 19 photos. The trams were basically just the same design as on most Uk/Irish tramways, mainly open top double deckers and later some covered top double deckers ,quite unlike the USA long single decker bogie cars used on the longer interurban routes.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Galteemore]

Yes, Ernie, I suppose the Manx Electric, and the Grimsby system are the closest parallels in these islands to interurbans. Although it could be said that the Dalkey route trams were rather special and relatively unusual for these islands, being bogie vehicles.https://en.sporvognsrejser.dk/other/howth-national-transport-museum-postkort-05

 

[jhb171achill]

In 1956, a period of very heavy rain and a rise in the level of Lough Erne resulted in the embankment of the Great Northern Railway’s Bundoran branch to be washed away during the night, leaving a culvert destroyed and the track hanging in the air. 

The District Engineer in Enniskillen (my father) was roused from his slumbers about 5 a.m. to attend the scene, and the railway was closed during repairs.

Eighteen months after it had been fully repaired and rebuilt, this line plus every other one in the wider area, was closed and dismantled with one stroke of a pen by the distant and short-sighted Stormont government.

(H C A Beaumont collection)
 

[jhb171achill]

Last post for the moment shows the elusive and camera-shy Co. Donegal Railways horsebox No. 1, lurking in the sidings at Stranorlar in 1937.

It retains its (faded) 1920s black livery.

 

[airfixfan]

Another great photo of the CDR.

[jhb171achill]

From Senior’s archives:

In the GNR’s early years, boardroom minutes made as dry and dusty reading as a telephone directory, just as they do today; having sat through interminable RPSI and DCDR (and other non-railway) committees, boards, and other assemblies, I know this only too well.

”Oh, give me your pity

I’m on a committee

Which means that from morning to night

We confer and demur

And debate until late

And we never get anything done.....”

However, while the glacial machinations of the GNR’s Engineering and Permanent Way Departments were never intended to be read like a blockbuster novel, the minutes give a fascinating insight into the operation of our railways in their first half century.

I’ll post a few random items over the next week or two, but first of course is the cover, in this case of the 1875-1905 volume. You will note that it refers to one area, which is the former Ulster Railway area.  An Ulster Railway one will follow next week, but the grass needs to be cut first.....

Edited July 13, 2020 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

We’re in Co Tyrone and it’s 1892....

 

[Galteemore]

It still is ! 

[Andy Cundick]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:42 AM, jhb171achill said:

Last post for the moment shows the elusive and camera-shy Co. Donegal Railways horsebox No. 1, lurking in the sidings at Stranorlar in 1937.

It retains its (faded) 1920s black livery.

 

Almost as interesting is the Red wagon as it shows the internal layout as well as how the sheet was supported,i'm not sure of its Donegal number its Castlederg No15(been there built it)as it was the only open with drop sides apparently to carry millstones from a local quarry,Andy. 

[DiveController]

This thread is becoming a catacomb in itself, now up to 21 pages

[jhb171achill]

37 minutes ago, DiveController said:

This thread is becoming a catacomb in itself, now up to 21 pages

Might as well post a bit more, then!

[airfixfan]

14 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

Almost as interesting is the Red wagon as it shows the internal layout as well as how the sheet was supported,i'm not sure of its Donegal number its Castlederg No15(been there built it)as it was the only open with drop sides apparently to carry millstones from a local quarry,Andy. 

Great to see that photo an ex CVBT 4 plank open wagon was allocated number 228 by the CDR. Interesting.

[Andy Cundick]

I'm afraid to say no it isn't. 228 was Castlederg No 28 was a steel underframed 4 plank open bought from Pickerings along with the bogie open No 29 both were numbered in the Donegals  goods vehicle series.Whereas the 6 original Castlederg opens 15-20 were the original Red wagons and apparently numbered 3-9,i say apparently as i've at least 2 photos of No2 which is supposed to be a Clogher van but is definitely an ex Castlederg open (been there built the lot) .Andy.

[Mike 84C]

What beautiful script those reports are written in. I started to be taught that style in primary school  but in came italic so my hand writing looks like neither! I do enjoy these snippets of railway history. And how learned this group is.

[WRENNEIRE]

I reckon the Christian Brothers were involved somewhere along the line Mike, I still have the scars to prove it 

[jhb171achill]

We have morons interfering with the railway today, and 126 years ago their grandparents were at it.....

 

[airfixfan]

2 hours ago, Andy Cundick said:

I'm afraid to say no it isn't. 228 was Castlederg No 28 was a steel underframed 4 plank open bought from Pickerings along with the bogie open No 29 both were numbered in the Donegals  goods vehicle series.Whereas the 6 original Castlederg opens 15-20 were the original Red wagons and apparently numbered 3-9,i say apparently as i've at least 2 photos of No2 which is supposed to be a Clogher van but is definitely an ex Castlederg open (been there built the lot) .Andy.

Thanks Andy that's was comes at just looking at one source before heading out today. Will rummage through my other notes later when I get home.

[Lambeg man]

6 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

What beautiful script those reports are written in. I started to be taught that style in primary school  but in came italic so my hand writing looks like neither! I do enjoy these snippets of railway history. And how learned this group is.

I totally agree. 

[jhb171achill]

Ulster Railway, 1865 Engineer’s minute books.

I like the way these old volumes are bound....

Many of those who wrote these book up had, as others have mentioned, a very neat and stylish type of writing. As you can see here, there were certainly some exceptions of barely legible scrawl (see last pic!)...

[jhb171achill]

VERY poor photos, amongst the earliest I took of railway subjects with a cheap camera.

1. Whitehead Open Day, 1972; my first and last experience of “Lough Erne” in steam.

2 & 3.  The RPSI’s Coolnamona tour, about the same time, 1971/2? Someone will know. 
This is 186 in the Curragh Siding.

[Galteemore]

Very nice Jb. I’m sure I was there (aged 1 so don’t recall, but probably not far from the sales tent ! ). Lough Erne looks deceptively healthy here. By 1972 I have heard she could barely hold enough steam to move! 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

7 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Very nice Jb. I’m sure I was there (aged 1 so don’t recall, but probably not far from the sales tent ! ). Lough Erne looks deceptively healthy here. By 1972 I have heard she could barely hold enough steam to move! 

That is correct. Within a week, she was to be steamed for her boiler test.

She was lit up, and after many hours couldn't raise enough steam to complete the test.

Thus, she failed it and that was that.

She is evidently so far beyond restoration that a total rebuild would be necessary - and THAT verdict was made thirty years ago! So it's now almost half a century since she was steamed - and then only as described above.

[Noel]

16 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

VERY poor photos, amongst the earliest I took of railway subjects with a cheap camera.

1. Whitehead Open Day, 1972; my first and last experience of “Lough Erne” in steam.

2 & 3.  The RPSI’s Coolnamona tour, about the same time, 1971/2? Someone will know. 
This is 186 in the Curragh Siding.

Hi Jonathan,

Great to have those photos. FYI, I adjusted the first photo a little and reattached below.

[jhb171achill]

It was my first camera! Not one of the very highest quality by any means.........

You've enhanced it about as well as it can be.......

[jhb171achill]

May 1948 timetable for the Kenmare branch trains, quite typical of branches then. Morning and evening mixed train, nothing on Sundays.

 

[Noel]

34 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

It was my first camera! Not one of the very highest quality by any means.........

You've enhanced it about as well as it can be.......

Hey it captured the image. Great to have it. My first camera was my dads hand off, an agfa, when you had to do all the exposure settings yourself manually, no instamatic nor auto features then!  No SLRs back then and phones were just phones but nearly required two arms to hold so heavy were the old bakelite phones that had to be dialled by rotary knob to create the analog pulses for the old clockwork mechanical exchange gear. Those time tables are fascinating. Does 'pas' numbers refer to the no of coaches and 'Gds' to the number of wagons or are they times?

[StevieB]

Noel

They’re the sectional running times, although what’s really interesting is that all the trains are described as mixed but the times quoted are for passenger or goods. Presumably, mixed ran to goods times.

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, Noel said:

 Does 'pas' numbers refer to the no of coaches and 'Gds' to the number of wagons or are they times?

These are the sectional running times in minutes. Goods trains and mixed trains were given the same timings on lines like this.

When it was a line with nothing but mixed trains (or cattle specials) in the normal course of things, they would still include passenger timings in case of, say, a GAA special or a Knock special, which would be passenger only.

On some branch lines, the service was one mixed and one or two passenger trains.

[jhb171achill]

You'll notice the average speed on the line was an hour and a quarter for 19 3/4 miles - or 15.8 miles per hour.

With the stops taken into account, that rises to about 19 mph. Allow for slowing down and "accelerating" away from the several stations, and you've a top speed of 25mph.......

[Galteemore]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:54 PM, jhb171achill said:

That is correct. Within a week, she was to be steamed for her boiler test.

She was lit up, and after many hours couldn't raise enough steam to complete the test.

Thus, she failed it and that was that.

She is evidently so far beyond restoration that a total rebuild would be necessary - and THAT verdict was made thirty years ago! So it's now almost half a century since she was steamed - and then only as described above.

This was the handover in 1980. £5k it cost the RPSI then. Equivalent of £21k now. The planned (never happened) restoration was estimated to cost £15k in 2021 prices! 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Galteemore