JM Design 20T Goods Brake Aug 20 update

[Mayner]

I just completed the assembly of the prototype build and everything fitted together thanks to the good work of our designer Ben on his first model railway project.

The assembly was a bit of a rush job to make sure that everything fits, I haven't fitted grab irons or couplings (Bachmann tension lock in NEM pocket mount). 

Chassis is designed for OO or 21mm gauge

It was touch and go on whether our printers Clone 3D https://www.clone3d.co.nz/ could get the prototype SLA prints for the model out this week under the Covid restrictions, but did a very good job considering the number of small parts in the design.

I am planning to make a decision on the manufacturing phase of the project during the next 4-6 weeks and expect to be able to make an announcement in connection with whether the brake van will be produced as a rtr model or a kit,  price and expected availability before Mid-October. We expect to have samples for review/inspection in Ireland from late September onwards.

The lamps and the brakes are non working but we might consider it if we blow the model up to O or Gauge 1.

 

 

 

 

[Galteemore]

Lovely, Mayner. Gap in the market beautifully filled. A 7mm version which could take 36.75mm wheelsets would be very welcome and just what I’m after....

[patrick]

Very exciting to see this project progressing. If a RTR version is produced what liveries might they be available in?

[Angus]

Wrong scale for me but the build results looks superb, I hope it's a success for you, it deserves to be!

[DiveController]

2 hours ago, patrick said:

Very exciting to see this project progressing. If a RTR version is produced what liveries might they be available in?

Something old and grey, I hope

 

Looks very good even without the final touches, John @Mayner

Definitely a gap filled 

[TimO]

That looks a superb 1st prototype apart from the roof which looks good at the sides but either a little short or not sitting correctly at the ends. It has kept pretty true to your initial CAD impressions. I will definitely put my name on a couple.

[Ironroad]

Just wondering if there has been any further progress on this project, I'm very interested

[jhb171achill]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 5:18 PM, DiveController said:

Something old and grey, I hope

Like me........!

[DiveController]

4 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Just wondering if there has been any further progress on this project, I'm very interested

Ah, cr@p, @mmie353. I thought there was an update. Great little wagon this one

[jhb171achill]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 3:12 PM, patrick said:

Very exciting to see this project progressing. If a RTR version is produced what liveries might they be available in?

That would be easy - these vans were mostly all grey, top to bottom, all of their lives. The few that made it past 1970 got all over brown.

The wasp stripes on the duckets started appearing about 1964 - plain grey before that. This would be just after "snails" had been replaced by "roundels" - which were the all-white type, not the ones with the tan surrounds, which were only on palvans and H vans.

By late 60s, all grey, roundels, and wasp stripes. Roofs often looked much darker due to exhaust weathering but when new were same grey as sides and chassis. Brown starts to appear in 1970s, complete, of course with wasp stripes.

[DiveController]

Is this the same wagon ? John's looks to be vertically planked. Were they paneled over in steel sheet?

(c) Brian Flanagan

[Noel]

13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

That would be easy - these vans were mostly all grey, top to bottom, all of their lives. The few that made it past 1970 got all over brown.

The wasp stripes on the duckets started appearing about 1964 - plain grey before that. This would be just after "snails" had been replaced by "roundels" - which were the all-white type, not the ones with the tan surrounds, which were only on palvans and H vans.

By late 60s, all grey, roundels, and wasp stripes. Roofs often looked much darker due to exhaust weathering but when new were same grey as sides and chassis. Brown starts to appear in 1970s, complete, of course with wasp stripes.

Have this pair a few years, no goods train is allowed budge on the layout without one of these tagged on at the end. Like a sentence needing a full stop to mark the end. Would like some fine scale ones with the correct chassis gubbins. The ones below are 3D bodies on top of dapol chassis, but they survive the 'duck test' admirably and my personal 2ft rule.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, DiveController said:

Is this the same wagon ? John's looks to be vertically planked. Were they paneled over in steel sheet?

(c) Brian Flanagan

Same basic design, but the later ones were like the pic. Mayner’s model is if the earlier builds. All ran, of course, as a common fleet.

The last time I personally saw a timber-planked one in use was possibly about 1972, but since a few anyway survived to get the brown paint, they might have been in traffic to possibly ‘74/5.

[Galteemore]

Thinking about a cow being subjected to 60mph in one of those cattle vans is enough to make you turn vegan.... I was three months old when that photo was taken - wish I’d been paying more attention in those days! 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Galteemore

[Noel]

2 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Thinking about a cow being subjected to 60mph in one of those cattle vans is enough to make you turn vegan.... I was three months old when that photo was taken - wish I’d been paying more attention in those days! 

 

Well 60mph on those wagons was probably more comfortable and certainly less stressful than a road cattle truck on bouncy back roads from farms then doing 70mph on a motorway. Cattle trains would had less severe braking and acceleration, and no cornering. Originally the once extensive Irish Railway network was more tasked to transport live animals and agricultural produce than humans. Oh if only I had a camera when a youngster in the 60s to record some of the mystical magical moments of the glory CIE days when railway traffic was diverse and interesting. Even the AECs with their moon sized giant round buffers evoked atmosphere, sitting behind the driver watching the road ahead to the west. JM's 20T Goods Brake would be right up my street. I've been building quite a collection of brake vans.

[Galteemore]

Fair point Noel - we can forget how bad the roads were pre EEC days. In terms of comfort, 60 years after closure Google Earth still clearly shows the train set radius curves on the SLNC trackbed where it borders my cousins’ land in Leitrim...reading a guard’s memoirs suggests a loose-coupled cattle special could be an uncomfortable journey all round for man and beast. There are some interesting photos on Ernie’s site right now showing cattle trucks (obviously vac braked) working through to Omagh from Enniskillen on the back of passenger trains. That definitely would have been more comfortable than SLNC metals or Fermanagh roads! To keep on topic, these brake vans are an iconic feature of Irish railway life. I have recently purchased drawings to make a 7mm one of an earlier genre. You can get a fair amount of 50s wagon stock card kits in 7mm but brake vans are a huge gap. I scratch built an MGW one as one of my first 36.75mm projects, but the next one will hopefully be improved !!

Edited October 9, 2020 by Galteemore

[Mayner]

Not a lot to report at this stage, it will probably be mid-late November before the review samples are ready and will be in a position to make an announcement on pricing and availability.

The photos are of 3D prints of the current version of the model with wheels and brake shoes set to OO gauge.

 

The graphics are preliminary, I haven't got the correct running number font.

 

 

[murphaph]

I'd really love an excuse to buy one of these for my planned 90s layout. I know I can't run one, prototypically anyway but parked in a siding rotting away perhaps? When was the last one scrapped?

[DoctorPan]

There's a van in Limerick with the pockets and bogie cements on the approach and there was one in North Wall until it was burnt down a few year ago.

[flange lubricator]

35 minutes ago, DoctorPan said:

There's a van in Limerick with the pockets and bogie cements on the approach and there was one in North Wall until it was burnt down a few year ago.

I think they are 30 ton vans not 20 ton 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, DoctorPan said:

There's a van in Limerick with the pockets and bogie cements on the approach and there was one in North Wall until it was burnt down a few year ago.

Didn't know about the North Wall one!

I suppose the one that was kicking about for YEARS in Inchicore is probably gone too by now?

[iarnrod]

Watching this with interest as I will need a few of these.

Hopefully, the start of a range of detailed RTR items from that period that would never realistically be factory made by any of the mainstream manufacturers. 

[Niles]

Wasn't there a plethora of brake vans stored at Gort until the early 2000s-ish?

There was a 30t one on the wash roads in Inchicore until the late 2000s, I think it went bye bye around the same time 123 met her maker I could be misremembering. 

The Limerick was actually only overhauled in the last decade or so, its most notable role being in the transport of a giant granny puppet... now there's a modelling project.

 

[Ironroad]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

Not a lot to report at this stage, it will probably be mid-late November before the review samples are ready and will be in a position to make an announcement on pricing and availability.

The photos are of 3D prints of the current version of the model with wheels and brake shoes set to OO gauge.

 

The graphics are preliminary, I haven't got the correct running number font.

 

 

 

Thanks for the update

[Ironroad]

4 hours ago, murphaph said:

I'd really love an excuse to buy one of these for my planned 90s layout. I know I can't run one, prototypically anyway but parked in a siding rotting away perhaps? When was the last one scrapped?

You should expand your horizons, Given the slow pace of infrastructure  change on Irish Railways  over a long period of time it's possible (perhaps with a bit of license) to represent multiple periods on the same layout. 

[murphaph]

Yeah but I plan on building a fairly large layout requiring a lot of stock as is, now multiply that by 2 or 3 and I'd be looking at divorce!

I want to be able to run a real day's timetabled operations some day. That requires a lot of duplicate stock. 

[Ironroad]

Just the same a little dalliance* is permissible, as I think I've said before variety is the spice of life.   *(I mean modelling nothing else)

[DiveController]

On 10/10/2020 at 7:07 PM, Ironroad said:

Just the same a little dalliance* is permissible, as I think I've said before variety is the spice of life.   *(I mean modelling nothing else)

Thought you were going to throw up some photos of the spice rack there for a mo'

Edited October 12, 2020 by DiveController

[Noel]

On 10/10/2020 at 12:22 PM, murphaph said:

I'd really love an excuse to buy one of these for my planned 90s layout. I know I can't run one, prototypically anyway but parked in a siding rotting away perhaps? When was the last one scrapped?

I still run a brake van behind some of my model fitted stock. A goods train without a guards van at the end seems like an unfinished sentence. Something is just missing. Some of the early fitted beet trains and container trains had brake vans tagged on the end of the formation. I know not for what purpose, but it just looks proper.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by Noel

[DoctorPan]

21 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Didn't know about the North Wall one!

I suppose the one that was kicking about for YEARS in Inchicore is probably gone too by now?

Turns out I was misremembering. North Wall one was one of the plough vans.

[Niles]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

I still run a brake van behind some of my model fitted stock. I goods train without a guards van at the end seems like an unfinished sentence. Something is just missing. Some of the early fitted beet trains and container trains had brake vans tagged on the end of the formation. I know not for what purpose, but it just looks proper.  

The fitted North Wall-Connolly fuel train used a brakevan until it ended in 2000s, I think it was down to the reverse move at East Wall Junction.

[murphaph]

Any other fuel trains use one I wonder?? 

[jhb171achill]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 12:22 PM, murphaph said:

I'd really love an excuse to buy one of these for my planned 90s layout. I know I can't run one, prototypically anyway but parked in a siding rotting away perhaps? When was the last one scrapped?

Of the wooden-planked variety, probably mid or late 1970s.

However, it's your layout!

[murphaph]

Yeah I know Jonathan but having stuff from decades apart on my layout at the same time really bugs me. Maybe I have some form of OCD.

By the way my copy of RttW arrived and I've started reading it. Just my sort of book. Great work.

[jhb171achill]

4 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Yeah I know Jonathan but having stuff from decades apart on my layout at the same time really bugs me. Maybe I have some form of OCD.

I'm absolutely with you on that! Each to their own, of course, but as you'll have gathered here, that sort of detail (plus livery accuracy for relevant items / period) would by my version of it.....

There is, of course, preservation. I am aware of several layouts based in modern times (e.g. Tara Junction) where RPSI specials with heritage diesels crop up now and again, or steam engines. Mayner's recent survey included an option for a model of 171 - outside most modeller's time period when in GNR use, but appropriate for modern image with a few preserved RPSI carriages behind it.

 

5 minutes ago, murphaph said:

By the way my copy of RttW arrived and I've started reading it. Just my sort of book. Great work.

Very many thanks, much appreciated. I will pass your comments on to Barry as well.