JM Design 20T "Flying Snail" Brake Vans

[Mayner]

I recovered the second batch of "Flying Snail" Brake Vans from our pad-printers today following the lifting of travel restrictions from Auckland. (The city has effectively been in lockdown since 12th August).

I expect the vans will be ready for shipping early February as Christmas & Summer Holidays coincide in this part of the World with most businesses closed until Mid January.

We are now offering DHL Express as an option for shipments to Ireland/Europe and can offer a DTP service for shipments >€150 upon enquiry as the DTP fees are slightly lower than paying Customs Clearance fees and disbursements upon arrival.

We had customs clearance problems with some recent NZ Post/An Post shipments which have since been delivered following intervention from NZ Post. So far An Post & NZ Post have both failed to provide an explanation for the problem except the usual stock answers or respond to specific questions in connection with the declaration, we have not had this problem with shipments to other EU Countries or the UK or United States.

I have no further information at this stage on the decals for the CIE Bulk Grain, IRCH Standard Open or Covered Wagons.

 

[johnfromoz]

Hi JM, duly ordered.  See PM.

Cheers,

John

[DJ Dangerous]

I'd say there'll be a few happy modellers who missed out on the last batch!

[Georgeconna]

Any chance of moving to Ireland John, Might make things a bit cheaper post wise!!

 

[Westcorkrailway]

On 22/12/2021 at 9:09 AM, Mayner said:

I recovered the second batch of "Flying Snail" Brake Vans from our pad-printers today following the lifting of travel restrictions from Auckland. (The city has effectively been in lockdown since 12th August).

I expect the vans will be ready for shipping early February as Christmas & Summer Holidays coincide in this part of the World with most businesses closed until Mid January.

We are now offering DHL Express as an option for shipments to Ireland/Europe and can offer a DTP service for shipments >€150 upon enquiry as the DTP fees are slightly lower than paying Customs Clearance fees and disbursements upon arrival.

We had customs clearance problems with some recent NZ Post/An Post shipments which have since been delivered following intervention from NZ Post. So far An Post & NZ Post have both failed to provide an explanation for the problem except the usual stock answers or respond to specific questions in connection with the declaration, we have not had this problem with shipments to other EU Countries or the UK or United States.

I have no further information at this stage on the decals for the CIE Bulk Grain, IRCH Standard Open or Covered Wagons.

 

Ordered one , I’ll be honest 103 Australian dollars frightened this shite out of me but the conversion rate was more lenient then I remember 

[Mayner]

On 23/12/2021 at 11:57 PM, Westcorkrailway said:

Ordered one , I’ll be honest 103 Australian dollars frightened this shite out of me but the conversion rate was more lenient then I remember 

Prices are in $NZ which is usually exchanges at a lower rate that $Au or $USd. You can view the prices in Euro, GBP, USD if you let Shopify view your regional settings. 

As much as I would love to return to Ireland I am too attached to our 1920s bungalow on a quarter acre section, wife, daughter and Kiwi way of life let alone the cost of re-location to consider returning.

Prices for my models would have to be higher with Irish Vat, higher labour and production costs, I can just about afford to keep the enterprise going out of my back pocket at the moment. Shipping rates are broadly similar to between UK and IRL as postal rates are similar to the MacDonalds fast food exchange rate.

Hopefully at some stage I will begin producing  Kiwi and possibly Australian 3'6" kits & rtr locos and stock to broaden my customer base and improve the viability of the business.

[Mike 84C]

From small beginnings larger kiwi fruit will grow. Good luck for your future plans, happy New year and let 2022 be a good one for you, Oh yea! a very Happy Christmas.

[patrick]

What Kadee do you recommend for the brake van John?

[mphoey]

think my order is in that second batch if i remember right

 

[mphoey]

15 hours ago, mphoey said:

think my order is in that second batch if i remember right

 

forget that think its arrived as i just got a customs due letter and it says online jm design model rail as sender

[Ironroad]

22 hours ago, patrick said:

What Kadee do you recommend for the brake van John?

If I may offer an opinion, this is not a straightforward question to answer.  Some trial and error may be needed to achieve the outcome you desire as all circumstances are not the same. A key objective is to achieve the closest possible coupling, and Kadee offer 4 couplers to fit NEM sockets, #s 17, 18, 19, & 20, the shortest being 17 increasing in length up to 20. I have found that #17 is not suitable for use with rolling stock fitted with buffers as the buffer length prevents the couplings from coming together (assuming #17 is used on both items of rolling stock  but may work with a 17 on one and an 18 on the other).  The minimum radius of the track on your layout needs to be taken into consideration since coupling may be achieved satisfactorily on a straight section between two items of rolling stock fitted with say # 18s but they may not couple on a curve, and if the  radius is too extreme they will buffer lock and derail, note buffer length is a factor here and is not standard.   Mixing the coupling lengths used on your rolling stock may be an option to achieve a better median distance between wagons or coaches  but personally I prefer standardisation particularly for goods stock which is more likely to be shunted than coaches.  Hope this helps.  

[Mayner]

On 5/1/2022 at 8:03 AM, patrick said:

What Kadee do you recommend for the brake van John?

Never checked until today actually!

The coupling mount on the wagons are designed around the Bachmann 36-030 straight narrow coupling.

As Tom (Ironroad) indicated the 18, 19 or 20 should work.  The No17 is too short!

 

 

[patrick]

 I picked up two pairs of #19 for my MM  141/181  locos today and fitted a pair to the brake van, the first step in converting from tension lock couplers.No problem on my minimum radius curve, roughly 22 inch radius in a fiddle yard but I will try an #18. Thanks to everyone who responded. Despite living in the land of Kadees  no one over here knows anything about converting European rolling stock.

Edited January 7, 2022 by patrick

[Ironroad]

Hi Patrick, we are risking getting off topic here but the problems in the land of Kadees include the fact that they are primarily catering to HO modelers and NEM sockets are a European concept.  Some of the issues experienced on tight radius curves can be overcome using their regular range of couplers designed to work in gear boxes that allow the couplers to move laterally.   However, there is a German company Symoba http://www.symoba-schniering.de/  (UK distributor DC Supplies) that produces NEM sockets and very small kinematic mounting plates that allow the sockets to move laterally, and allow for easy height adjustment..   These also overcome the problem of drooping NEM sockets. Worth investigating if you are converting all you stock.

    

Edited January 7, 2022 by Ironroad
typo

[murphaph]

There's also the Keen Sytems take on the Symoba product. It's not as small, but it's a good deal cheaper IIRC:

https://www.petersspares.com/keen-systems-ccs4-close-coupling-system-4-pair.ir

No idea if it would fit under a brake van though. Might be too big. I bought a few for Lima conversions that will probably never happen now that IRM is releasing mk2b/c stock over the coming years. As I have not fitted them to anything I can't say if they are any use.

[DartStation]

On 6/1/2022 at 4:35 AM, Mayner said:

Never checked until today actually!

The coupling mount on the wagons are designed around the Bachmann 36-030 straight narrow coupling.

As Tom (Ironroad) indicated the 18, 19 or 20 should work.  The No17 is too short!

 

 

Hi John

for what its worth Kadee no.s 19 & 20 are the longest Kadees that I have come across and offer the greatest clearance on tighter curves.

Thanks 

PR 

[Ironroad]

Hi Phil, agree that Keen Systems are cheaper but I think Keen is more suited to bogie stock and refitting the springs the odd time they come loose is a bit of a pain.  The Symoba mounting plate is a very neat sealed self contained unit that is wafer thin and only 12.2mm wide x 11.2 mm long and should work with most stock (bogie and rigid),. That said I don't know if it would perform as well as the Keen system on say a Mk 3 coach on a tight radius again Symoba's primary market is HO.

[mphoey]

brake vans received today went to order 2 more items and i see jm designs has changed from post to dhl at a huge increase

[murphaph]

I think we can safely blame An Post for that. Their inability to reliably deliver is the only reason John would have gone to DHL. His woes with An Post are well known at this stage.

[Mayner]

I had to suspend the International Air Small Parcel tracked option for shipments to Europe because of on going problems with customs clearance in Ireland which is costing me time and money.

Last week a number of items were returned to sender because of insufficient customs information on the declarations despite the items cleared customs before Christmas the customers having paid the vat and An Post Charges.

The items were initially stopped in November but later cleared through customs apparently as a result of NZ Post intervention, but have shown little interest in following up to find out why the items were stopped in the first place or returned. An Post has not responded to questions I asked in connection with the declarations except for the usual stock answers and have not responded to a formal complaint in connections with problems experienced last August and September. Having worked for large public and private sector organisations its almost a sacking offence for a worker to admit to a customer that its systems are not perfect.

I suspect there may be a problem with the customs data transmitted by NZ Post to An Post while I enter the correct 10 digit Taric Codes while creating a shipment in NZ Posts cloud based system the code is displayed in 9 digit format on the Post Expres label used with the International Air Small Parcel options.

Although NZ Post claim that the data is transmitted to An Post in 10 digit format, this is not going to work if someone in An Post has to physically scan or read the declaration on the printed label.

I understand that NZ  Post are planning to revise the label to display the Taric code in the required 10 digit format and may reinstate the  NZ Post International Air Small Parcel Options 

At this stage I am unlikely to be in a position to accept orders for rtr wagons before March/April as I am currently awaiting a delivery of an order of custom decals from our supplier in the UK

[Westcorkrailway]

I received my Brakevan today and I’m well chuffed with it. It’s worth buying just to see what 3D printing is capable of pulling off!

Very protective style packaging

 

plenty of space for 21mm axels

behind my rather crude bulleid wagons

the amount of cab detail is superb. Although I am going to have to get used to the removable roof! Again you’d hardly know it’s 3D printed 

I’m not sure if these are for sale anymore. but I’d recommend it anyways. These are a superb wagon 

[Galteemore]

That interior is calling out for a gently flickering lamp to illuminate it! 

[Noel]

Looks fabulous. Still waiting for mine. Long term 3D as it continues to improve resolution seems the future for pre 1970s rolling stock. 

[the Bandon tank]

I received my break van and open wagon today, very pleased. Had to pay An post 23.60 EURO last Friday for it to be released by customs.

[Westcorkrailway]

4 hours ago, Noel said:

Looks fabulous. Still waiting for mine. Long term 3D as it continues to improve resolution seems the future for pre 1970s rolling stock. 

The potential is there. I believe that pre 1970s rolling stock both freight and coaches will become possible as the tech improves. There is a serious lack of coaches from that era as the only suppliers of the Pre Craven coaching stock is IFM and SSM at the moment. It would be nice to have some sort of GSR coaches, similar to that of the ones Popeye expertly converted out of the ratio kits LMS 48ft coaches 

as for locos, it’s a tougher sell as pure 3D printing from scratch means the loco would weight nothing, alternatively a donor chassis could be found. But many locos on this island have unique wheel arrangements to those of some of the British counterparts 

I will be trying the No.90 print as it at least has a suitable donor chassis already available  

1 hour ago, the Bandon tank said:

I received my break van and open wagon today, very pleased. Had to pay An post 23.60 EURO last Friday for it to be released by customs.

Mine was almost sent back to New Zealand! I forgot It it was in the post and hence, did not pay the customs letter as I thought àn post was trying to charge me for something that had already arrived. Only €12.99 customs for me 

[jhb171achill]

44 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

The potential is there. I believe that pre 1970s rolling stock both freight and coaches will become possible as the tech improves. There is a serious lack of coaches from that era as the only suppliers of the Pre Craven coaching stock is IFM and SSM at the moment. It would be nice to have some sort of GSR coaches, similar to that of the ones Popeye expertly converted out of the ratio kits LMS 48ft coaches 

Yes, the potential most certainly is there. I know I've picked out certain items which are personal favourites before, but if we sweep aside any inevitable barrage of opinions and stick to facts and statistics, in terms of what is currently not available but was most numerically common in the "grey & green" era, and through the first half of the "black'n'tan" era, we cannot ignore certain constants and these are at least one specifically GSWR-design timber bodied, timber panelled main line corridor coach, any type of laminate, Bredin or 1951-3 era coach*, and the most glaringly obvious omissions of the lot, "C" class diesels, the ubiquitous AEC railcar set and the various Tin Vans. Without these, no 1950-70 scene is complete.

It's been great to see advances in wagons of this era, especially the work of JM Design and Provincial Wagons. Let us hope that more wagons are to come.

To complement "A" class locos, all of the above may be hoped for in years to come - it's up to us folks to buy them to make any manufacture viable. Get out there and mortgage your grannies, folks!

 

(* Though Silverfox DO do that one)

[Westcorkrailway]

8 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

I know I've picked out certain items which are personal favourites before

I think every single person on this forum is guilty of that!

 

The JM design 20T brake just makes me optimistic. for a RTR Irish wagon that is quite detailed from a small manufacturer. You’d expect it to cost a lot more then it does

[dave182]

I missed the boat on these and am gutted. However I note from JM Designs website that he is hoping to have them available as a kit later this year.

That got me thinking... would it be possible to licence the 'print' to a 3D printing company here on the island of Ireland? Cut out the postage.

[Mayner]

12 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I think every single person on this forum is guilty of that!

 

The JM design 20T brake just makes me optimistic. for a RTR Irish wagon that is quite detailed from a small manufacturer. You’d expect it to cost a lot more then it does

The Brake Van was basically to test demand and the suitability of 3D Printing for low volume manufacture. Future Brake Van production will be at a similar price point to the Bulk Grain wagons.

I originally looked at commissioning the Brake Van as a rtr plastic injection model direct from a Chinese factory and while we could produce a high quality model at a competitive price, I was not convinced that I could sell enough (2-3000) models in order to cover my costs and make a profit on the venture.

The Brake Vans were 3D printed in China by a company that was highly recommended and produced very good test prints, but ran into serious quality problems with the production prints, resulting in a lot of re-work and a 3-6 month delay in releasing the finished models. 

Our models are now printed by a locally based company that produces high quality prints in a resin with similar properties to injection molded plastic at a significantly higher cost. The downside is that most 3D print houses are reluctant to undertake low volume manufacture of small scale models and I don't particularly want to spend over $100,000 in setting up to take the printing in-house ( approx. $100K for a suitable bottom up printer, $10-20K hazardous substance and temperature and humidity controls in an existing workshop. 

The Jury is still out on whether there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile to continue manufacturing 3D printed RTR and CKD wagons, a lot depends on the continued goodwill of a single print house, 2022 will test whether it is viable to continue production of existing and develop new models.

While there is a lot of talk about the potential for new models on the this news group the availability of high quality rtr models from the Far East has contributed to un-realistic expectations among modellers that its viable to produce rtr models (preferably plastic injection) of most of the locos and rolling stock that ran on Irish Railways. This has symied demand for kits and components as an increasing proportion of modellers are willing to wait in the expectation that a manufacturer will produce a high quailty rtr model of a particular loco or item of rolling stock rather than attempt a kit or heaven forbid attempt a scratchbuild.

[jhb171achill]

It's been said before and doubtless will be again; but we all owe a great debt of gratitude to makers of both RTR and kit Irish stuff. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who came back to modelling purely because of this, in my case after some 40 years of "life", and items built at 12 ins = 1ft scale occupying me for 30 of those. distracting me elsewhere.

So, well done folks.

(Now wheres me tin vans........)

[Westcorkrailway]

To be fair . I have been modelling properly since about February 2020. In which time I’ve been on a strictly “RTR” policy working off silver fox, MM, IRM and products I converted from Hornby. 
 

hopefully a nice finished Bandon tank kit will get convince me to buy more kits…..as there are plenty of things in kit form I’d like to have for myself.

 

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

(Now wheres me tin vans........)

Our day will come