New car , are these extras worth it?

[spudfan]

Trying to decide whether to splash out on the higher end model or not.

[jhb171achill]

First car I was ever carted about in was one of those...... 1951 model. My dad had it until about 1965 - even then it was looking antiquated.

 

[DiveController]

Were they commonplace in Ireland in the 50s? Far fewer road vehicles then. Interested to know what was popular on Ireland’s road from a modeling perspective 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, DiveController said:

Were they commonplace in Ireland in the 50s? Far fewer road vehicles then. Interested to know what was popular on Ireland’s road from a modeling perspective 

They were common enough. They came in several variations - with “flat” boot as above, or slightly raised, and with two slightly different radiator designs if I remember correctly. They were marketed as Ford “Prefect” and Ford “Popular”.

Good for a 1950s layout along with an early Morris 1000 “Minor” or Austin A35 or Morris “Cambridge”, or an old Alvis.

[Andy Cundick]

My mother in law had a 1932 Ford Eight which she ran up until 1968,when she brought a  1962 Lwb Land Rover,the Land Rover is still used by me daily as well as transporting layouts including a trip to Cultra,as for the Ford its still on the road being used by brother in law. Not a length of service i would expect from a modern vehicle..Andy.

[Ironroad]

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

Were they commonplace in Ireland in the 50s? Far fewer road vehicles then. Interested to know what was popular on Ireland’s road from a modeling perspective 

Ford was the top selling car maker in Ireland in the '50s. Not sure how many

Ford 8s were on the road but the late '40s model Prefect (similar profile) was common as was the newer model of of the Prefect that was introduced about '53 (more boxy) , I have a vivid memory of seeing one in a spin and overturning onto its roof on the bridge over the Tolka in Drumcondra.

Have a look at this https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056353489/road-vehicles-in-ireland-in-1950s#:~:text=Anyway OP%2C the 50's would,popular among the working class.

One of the postings states the following;-

New Car registrations for January 1959
Total 2,680
Top 10

1. Ford 852 (696 Anglia/Prefects, 132 Consuls, 24 Zodiacs)
2. Morris 458 (395 Minors, 2 Cowleys, 61 Oxfords)
3. Austin 411 (314 A35/A40s 6 A45s, 80 A55s)
4. VW 273
5. Hillman 118
6. Standard/TR 100
7. Renault 98
8. Fiat 94
9. Vauxhall 50
10. Simca 40

Edited January 18, 2022 by Ironroad

[spudfan]

The ad is from 1939

[Noel]

It looks like most of us may end up driving battery electric cars within the next 5-7 years if the SIMI stats are anything to go by.

[irishthump]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

It looks like most of us may end up driving battery electric cars within the next 5-7 years if the SIMI stats are anything to go by.

I won't be one of them. I cant afford one at current prices, I have no driveway to safely charge it and the current battery life would be inadequate for my needs.

[jhb171achill]

14 minutes ago, irishthump said:

I won't be one of them. I cant afford one at current prices, I have no driveway to safely charge it and the current battery life would be inadequate for my needs.

Yup - I'm the same. Unless they absolutely COLLAPSE price-wise, I'll be bumbling about in a basic petrol-driven Yaris till I pop me clogs. Besides, I dunno how to drive automatics, and they're all automatic.

[spudfan]

SIMI would like us to change our cars every year! If there is a big increase in sales of battery/electric vehicles the Dept of Finance will have to come up with some way of making the owners pay more in the way of road tax and missing fuel duty to make up for the loss of revenue. That will kill some of the big selling points.

[Mayner]

Scrappage and buy back schemes are more of a financial stimulus scheme for the motor industry which makes a lot of its profit from financing the sale of new cars.

I gave up on new cars about 15 years ago and have since bought 10 year old Honda imports and running them till they stop.

I am not convinced with the argument that replacing low emission petrol vehicles with a 10-15 year service life with battery vehicles when you consider the environmental and social impact of the manufacture of new vehicles and the on-going replacement and disposal of life expired batteries.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Mayner

[meathdane]

The Beetles were popular here too.

 

The first ever Beetle produced outside Germany was produced here. In Ballsbridge in the old tram depot no less (possible modelling idea?)

 

They averaged approx 3,000 units per annum until the late 80s, so having an Irish based layout without a bug would be a sin in my eyes!

Edited January 19, 2022 by meathdane
Oops! got my dates mixed up

[Mayner]

13 hours ago, meathdane said:

The Beetles were popular here too.

 

The first ever Beetle produced outside Germany was produced here. In Ballsbridge in the old tram depot no less (possible modelling idea?)

 

They averaged approx 3,000 units per annum until the late 80s, so having an Irish based layout without a bug would be a sin in my eyes!

Popular with dairy farmers with smaller holdings in area such as Cavan. Monaghan, West Cork, North Kerry. A Beetle with a small trailer with 2 milk churns queuing in the morning outside the creamery would have been a common sight up to the mid 1970s

[Lambeg man]

On 18/1/2022 at 5:39 PM, Noel said:

It looks like most of us may end up driving battery electric cars within the next 5-7 years if the SIMI stats are anything to go by.

Sorry, are we not back to the pro's and con's of the Drumm Railcar batteries??? I love the line in Baker's "Irish Railways Since 1916" book about how he was reading up a historic newspaper article in the main Dublin library about the Drumm Railcars and someone leant over his shoulder and said something along the lines of "The Oil companies screwed that".

[leslie10646]

I remember that my Dad told me he was saving up for a Ford Eight to replace his Austin Seven when war broke out - he was, by the way a RUC Constable in Garrison at the time.

I don't know what happened to the original Austin Seven, but when he could afford a car again (after getting married and starting to raise a family) it was a secondhand Austin Seven.

I see Oxford do one in 4mm, so I must get one to stick on a road near Richhill.

 

 

[Horsetan]

On 18/1/2022 at 5:39 PM, Noel said:

It looks like most of us may end up driving battery electric cars within the next 5-7 years if the SIMI stats are anything to go by.

 

On 18/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, irishthump said:

I won't be one of them. I cant afford one at current prices, I have no driveway to safely charge it and the current battery life would be inadequate for my needs.

I'm not sure of the wisdom of trying a new way of poisoning the planet, when we already have some effective ones.

Meanwhile, in Switzerland, this is practically identical to my car, inside and out. Pity the steering wheel's on the wrong side....

[DJ Dangerous]

Nice little (or not so little) CX!

I'm of the opinion that EVE's are currently at a "gateway" stage to a cleaner and healthier future.

It's a chicken and egg scenario.

When enough people are driving EVE's, pressure can be put on the authorities for a cleaner source of the electricity used, but for now, they only really move the pollution...

If the electricity is generated by burning coal, for example, then instead of having millions of little ICE's emitting fumes, we have millions of EVE's emitting no fumes, but consuming electricity from a source that emits a lot of fumes.

Regarding the environmental impact of fabricating the batteries...

Have you ever seen a clean and environmentally friendly oil well or processing plant or supertanker or mechanics workshop or breakers yard? Probably not.

EVE's are definitely the future, and I say that through gritted teeth as I'm a petrolhead, we're just not there yet.

P.S.: You liar, @Mayner! No way that multiple Honda's could stop running in just 15 years!

[Horsetan]

3 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

....Regarding the environmental impact of fabricating the batteries...

Out of sight, out of mind.....

*shrugs*

[spudfan]

Made with parts produced in China who are lashing out the pollution so we can buy "green" stuff made there... 

[Noel]

5 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Nice little (or not so little) CX!

I'm of the opinion that EVE's are currently at a "gateway" stage to a cleaner and healthier future.

It's a chicken and egg scenario.

When enough people are driving EVE's, pressure can be put on the authorities for a cleaner source of the electricity used, but for now, they only really move the pollution...

If the electricity is generated by burning coal, for example, then instead of having millions of little ICE's emitting fumes, we have millions of EVE's emitting no fumes, but consuming electricity from a source that emits a lot of fumes.

Regarding the environmental impact of fabricating the batteries...

Have you ever seen a clean and environmentally friendly oil well or processing plant or supertanker or mechanics workshop or breakers yard? Probably not.

EVE's are definitely the future, and I say that through gritted teeth as I'm a petrolhead, we're just not there yet.

P.S.: You liar, @Mayner! No way that multiple Honda's could stop running in just 15 years!

Your right about the clean up of electricity grids. Ireland's electricity grid is already well on track for 80% by 2030. And the new Celtic Interconnector will enable us to import up to 700 MW of CO2 free French nuclear electricity.

Robert Llewellyn is a bit of a EV buff evangelist but this is interesting clip dispelling a few popular OPEC myths:

PS: I presume the canaries are well ahead of the game with Solar and Wind generation. Ideally located for both.

 

 

6 minutes ago, spudfan said:

Made with parts produced in China who are lashing out the pollution so we can buy "green" stuff made there... 

Ironically the Chinese seem to be transitioning from fossil cars to BEVs faster than USA or Europe. The Chinese are the biggest manufacturer of BEVs.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Noel

[spudfan]

There is no denying that, but it is how they are getting the "green" stuff was the point I was making.

[jhb171achill]

On 20/1/2022 at 7:45 AM, Mayner said:

Popular with dairy farmers with smaller holdings in area such as Cavan. Monaghan, West Cork, North Kerry. A Beetle with a small trailer with 2 milk churns queuing in the morning outside the creamery would have been a common sight up to the mid 1970s

And never mind depreciation on a new car; you could double the value of the car by putting FOUR milk churns in it.

 

[jhb171achill]

I read somewhere recently that there are some experiments going on to make a synthetic fuel of some sort out of hydrogen and oxygen; the emissions would simply replace what was used to make the fuel. It's beyond doubt that diesel and petrol are massively harmful, and even if they weren't, there would still come a day when they ran out - so those types of fuel simply HAVE to go. But I also see the massive problems with electric vehicles - too many to list here, although the extraction of the lithium used to make the batteries will (a) run out before petroleum ever does, and (b) is collossally harmful environmentally, and (c) is only available to mine in a tiny number of locations on the planet. Add lack of range to that, though I am sure technology will develop this better as it develops - early steam locomotives and internal combustion engines were even more inefficient than early battery vehicles (Ask Dr. Drumm...).

This oxygen / hydrogen thing will apparently work in a modified petrol engine. Now, of course, this all sounds far too good to be true; and maybe it is. But may we live in hope on this one........

The reality is, even if it destroys the human race, people have become so used to instantly available transport to every corner of the globe (and even beyond it) that the entire way of life of 99% of the world's population depends upon it; all societies depend on it, and the world would just stop if we didn't have it. And nobody anywhere will ever wean people off that, now that we've had it for a century and more. No amount of Ryan cycleways and green buses will cure that, unless they have bus services every five minutes, 24 / 7, between every single residence in the world from the front door to every single possible destination. Ain't gonna happen.

So into yer cars, folks, be they powered by  petrol, diesel, electricity, awwwsum gasoline, hydrogen, oxygen, eco-vegan vegetable oil, lucozade or punctuation marks and animal noises, and head for the nearest model railway shop. They've model petrol cars on offer, two for the price of three.

Edited March 4, 2023 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

On 18/1/2022 at 4:56 PM, spudfan said:

The ad is from 1939

£115 was a lot of money then. My dad's Ford Prefect (which I still have the receipt for) was just over £200 in 1951, but there had been a lot of inflation in sterling (probably driven by the war) between 1939 and 1951.

[Noel]

13 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

£115 was a lot of money then. My dad's Ford Prefect (which I still have the receipt for) was just over £200 in 1951, but there had been a lot of inflation in sterling (probably driven by the war) between 1939 and 1951.

Oh I don't know. I wouldn't buy any car that lacks Apple Car Play. £500 would have bought a house in the 1950s, nowadays folks spend €1000 on a portable telephone that you can watch the telly on.    

[jhb171achill]

36 minutes ago, Noel said:

Oh I don't know. I wouldn't buy any car that lacks Apple Car Play. £500 would have bought a house in the 1950s, nowadays folks spend €1000 on a portable telephone that you can watch the telly on.    

My first BR Hornby Mk 1 coach cost eleven shillings (£0.55 / €0.60). Put THAT in yer pipes and smoke it, under-forties! Now, they're about £45-£75........

[Broithe]

11 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

My first BR Hornby Mk 1 coach cost eleven shillings (£0.55 / €0.60). Put THAT in yer pipes and smoke it, under-forties! Now, they're about £45-£75........

Be fair!

You would need a big pipe to get a coach in and the fumes would not be ideal.

[murphaph]

The Chinese see BEVs as a way to not only eliminate their dependence on foreign energy (China does not have much oil or gas) but they also see the huge global market for vehicles. The legacy carmakers in Europe and the US need to react quickly. Companies like BYD are producing exceptional cars at prices that hardly seem possible. Our next vehicle will be a BEV, no doubt. The tech is mature enough now. The Lithium was never really the problem, it was more the nickel and cobalt but the newer LFP batteries don't use nickel or cobalt. Tesla is moving to LFP batteries. They are safer too, you can stick a screwdriver through the blade batteries in the latest BYD blade batteries and they won't react. A Li-Ion battery will virtually explode if you do that. And LFP batteries are probably just another phase in the journey. Ireland has enormous capacity to produce green electricity and be entirely self sufficient in it and there is no reason the country cannot be a major electricity exporter, both via interconnectors and through green hydrogen production. Who would have ever imagined that Ireland would be an energy exporter? It is entirely realistic now. Putin has massively accelerated the demand for such energy. Irish customers are in pole position to benefit from cheap electricity to run their BEVs. The batteries in such vehicles act as a gigantic distributed energy store and the cascaded batteries from BEVs can be used in stationary applications (like mains power storage, either in the home or as part of the grid itself). The future is largely going to be battery powered. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will be much rarer than people once thought they might be IMO.

[Noel]

8 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The Chinese see BEVs as a way to not only eliminate their dependence on foreign energy (China does not have much oil or gas) but they also see the huge global market for vehicles. The legacy carmakers in Europe and the US need to react quickly. Companies like BYD are producing exceptional cars at prices that hardly seem possible. Our next vehicle will be a BEV, no doubt. The tech is mature enough now. The Lithium was never really the problem, it was more the nickel and cobalt but the newer LFP batteries don't use nickel or cobalt. Tesla is moving to LFP batteries. They are safer too, you can stick a screwdriver through the blade batteries in the latest BYD blade batteries and they won't react. A Li-Ion battery will virtually explode if you do that. And LFP batteries are probably just another phase in the journey. Ireland has enormous capacity to produce green electricity and be entirely self sufficient in it and there is no reason the country cannot be a major electricity exporter, both via interconnectors and through green hydrogen production. Who would have ever imagined that Ireland would be an energy exporter? It is entirely realistic now. Putin has massively accelerated the demand for such energy. Irish customers are in pole position to benefit from cheap electricity to run their BEVs. The batteries in such vehicles act as a gigantic distributed energy store and the cascaded batteries from BEVs can be used in stationary applications (like mains power storage, either in the home or as part of the grid itself). The future is largely going to be battery powered. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will be much rarer than people once thought they might be IMO.

Agree BYD could well be the new Toyota within the next 5 years. We'll all be driving Chinese car brands before soon. The manufacturing quality of the worlds smartphones, tablets and model railway toys manufactured in China are truly top class. Mr Putin has accidentally advanced the rate of transition to clean energy more than anybody else could have.  BYD have just appointed Irish MDL to sell the cars starting Q2 this year. Lots of chance coming down the tracks.

[meathdane]

Counter to all these points as a self proclaimed boy racer, 

No smoke, no poke! 

But counter again to myself who has spent the last while selling EVs, they are slowly winning me over as a daily car amd are indeed the way of the future, however, I would miss the drum and noise of a Straightpiped ICE every now and again, and the roar of F1 and Rallying

[Broithe]

5 minutes ago, meathdane said:

Counter to all these points as a self proclaimed boy racer, 

No smoke, no poke! 

But counter again to myself who has spent the last while selling EVs, they are slowly winning me over as a daily car amd are indeed the way of the future, however, I would miss the drum and noise of a Straightpiped ICE every now and again, and the roar of F1 and Rallying

It seems to me that it should be fairly easy to have convincing sound effects, both inside and outside the vehicle.

Almost like DCC sound is, but with a bit more 'scale and depth'.

[DJ Dangerous]

33 minutes ago, Broithe said:

It seems to me that it should be fairly easy to have convincing sound effects, both inside and outside the vehicle.

Almost like DCC sound is, but with a bit more 'scale and depth'.

It's not just the sound. It's the smell, the vibration, the sound, the combination of them all swirling and rushing at your brain like an addictive cocktail, you just need more and more, one more wh-tssssss of the BOV or one more poke over 5500 to hit VTEC again.

[Broithe]

If customisable sounds become available on EVs, I'll be looking for Shackleton sound files.

 

[Galteemore]

12 minutes ago, Broithe said:

If customisable sounds become available on EVs, I'll be looking for Shackleton sound files.

 

Can’t half spot its Lancaster DNA, can you???