Mk 2 Supertrain Coaches

[DiveController]

. MM has done nothing about it nor does it intend to by the looks of it.

 

There is no one more upset about these coaches than Paddy Murphy

All the good & hard work he has done over the last 15 years is at stake here

He has made contact with the manufacturers and is trying to address the problems

Its not like you can hop on the DART and drop over to them

These things take time and hopefully we should hear some news shortly

 

Crossing posts, Dave. I agree with you that MM has earned a good reputation and that certainly is at stake. I understand that these things take time but no statement has been issued by MM and the product continues to be sold without any statement from the company. That is not a good business strategy.

Neither is that of vendors who will not allow you to open a box and inspect these coaches at a show. Buy sight unseen when physically present, no, I don't think so.

[Glenderg]

From what I've heard from the "Heuston Driver", the problem is with the chinese not willing to communicate/respond. Pretty hard to issue a press release if the man himself is still in the dark.

 

Anyhoo, they are great coaches with the painting of the central band done by a sloppy operator. It's very fixable. As for the colour not being tan enough, well that's up to preference/memory and nostalgia. Also easily fixable, but i agree - shelling out further wonga after the initial purchase is not ideal.

[DiveController]

Anyhoo, they are great coaches with the painting of the central band done by a sloppy operator.

Yeah, I was looking forward to these coaches.

[chris]

As for the colour not being tan enough, well that's up to preference/memory and nostalgia.

 

Picked up a few of these and 086 recently and initially the colour looked really wrong to me, especially given the Supertrain 071 photo on the box being wildly different. But the IE colours of the 071 in the next photo also look off so I'm not sure.

It's grown on me since and I think the only way to really cure any colour difference is to leave it in the sun to fade for a few years

[DiveController]

I think the only way to really cure any colour difference is to leave it in the sun to fade for a few years

 

That's not a problem here, about a month should do it at most!

[Mayner]

From what I've heard from the "Heuston Driver", the problem is with the chinese not willing to communicate/respond. Pretty hard to issue a press release if the man himself is still in the dark.

 

Anyhoo, they are great coaches with the painting of the central band done by a sloppy operator. It's very fixable. As for the colour not being tan enough, well that's up to preference/memory and nostalgia. Also easily fixable, but i agree - shelling out further wonga after the initial purchase is not ideal.

 

Chinese like the Irish business men or politicians do not like to admit they cocked up. Asian culture is all about saving face or preserving mana.

 

Things are usually sorted out by offering the client a discount on the next order or offering a free replacement like in the case of the 1st batch of Heljan Clayton diesel chassis or Bachmann lifetime warranty.

 

Kiwirail had numerous problems with its Chinese built diesel locos but CNR continue to honour their warranty commitments.

 

MM was probably required to pay in advance before the manufacturer ran the production version.

[DiveController]

Chinese like the Irish business men or politicians do not like to admit they cocked up. Things are usually sorted out by offering the client a discount on the next order or offering a free replacement like in the case of the 1st batch of Heljan Clayton diesel chassis or Bachmann lifetime warranty.

Good insight there, John. Let's see if there are free replacements for unhappy customers or whether we have to buy a 121 to get some money back….although if the USD reach parity with the Euro, most modelers will be paying more anyway:((

[WT CLASS 2-6-4T No. 4]

When I posted my observations of Murphy Models from the Lima days to the present I did not expect an attack for simply stating what was obvious to anybody with a little knowledge of railways and their model form. The last sentence was not a slight on Mr Murphy but only a wish that the high standards achieved with the Cravens, 141’s/181’s and the 071’s would be maintained.

 

As for the Lima’s as Wrennerie said it was a lack of knowledge on Mr Murphy’s part that allowed class 33’s with a mix of Mk111 and Mk2 coaches and incorrect numbering to be distributed to the retailers by MM for selling on to the public.

 

Then came the golden age for Murphy Models, very detailed and highly finished models which raised the bar not only for Irish RTR models but RTR models everywhere, UK, Europe and USA. So people came to expect this standard when buying a RTR MM, be it coach or loco.

 

So when the recent batch of Mk2d coaches were released to the retailers by MM a lot of people who had become accustomed to the previously high standard were disappointed by the finish of the new batch. As Wrenneire said in his post the coaches were painted in China but they were distributed from Dublin to the retailers by MM, so Mr Murphy has some involvement in the process. If he was not happy with the product he should have delayed release to the retailers until he had sorted out the situation with his contractors in China.

If he was not aware of the problem before the models reached the retailers then that is a sign that there is a problem with QC in MM.

There should be sample testing and inspection of each batch of products received from his manufacturers and only be distributed when MM are happy with the quality, if not they should return the whole batch and not just the defective samples, to the manufacturer at his expense to be rectified.

 

I previously worked for a company who had products manufactured abroad and that was the system they used. After complete batches were returned a couple of times the manufacturers improved their QC and we seldom had a problem afterwards.

 

Having said all that I purchased some of the offending coaches well after the controversy about the paint finish had been reared after reading Glenderg's solution to the black edge problem, I,m not too worried about the shade of tan/orange/brown as once a rake is the same shade it will not be noticeable.

 

As I said before I hope MM get back to the very high standards which they have achieved in the past and I wish Mr Murphy well for the future and I look forward to some day soon being able to buy a MM 121 or 2 or 3 of the same standard as the 141's.

Edited April 2, 2015 by WT CLASS 2-6-4T No. 4
To complete post

[DiveController]

So when the recent batch of Mk2d coaches were released to the retailers by MM a lot of people who had become accustomed to the previously high standard were disappointed by the finish of the new batch. As Wrenneire said in his post the coaches were painted in China but they were distributed from Dublin to the retailers by MM, so Mr Murphy has some involvement in the process. If he was not happy with the product he should have delayed release to the retailers until he had sorted out the situation with his contractors in China. oIf he was not aware of the problem before the models reached the retailers then that is a sign that there is a problem with QC in MM.

There should be sample testing and inspection of each batch of products received from his manufacturers and only be distributed when MM are happy with the quality, if not they should return the whole batch and not just the defective samples, to the manufacturer at his expense to be rectified.

 

One should really be able to express sensible and reasonable opinions on this site without these frenzied retorts, but it seems to happen any time anyone has an opinion regarding a Murphy Models product which is not delivered with genuflection. We all love these products, I have a bunch of them and still collecting. Overall, they are excellent but there is no denying that here are problems with some of the most recent set of 'rtr' coaches as outlined by many on this site and abroad. Sorry, but it is what it is.

 

It is really up to MM to run that business how it sees fit but last time I looked it was not registered as a not for profit. That being the case, the models produced and put on sale by MM have deficiencies and I have to agree with WT that a business decision was made to release the product for sale with knowledge of the shortcomings. Alternatively, if it was not known at release that is a problem in itself for MM. In any case, if MM wished to retain its good and hard earned reputation over the years, other options were available such as a recall of available product, a no hassle refund for unhappy customers to allow deficient units to be returned and acceptable units to remain with modelers.

 

None of these has occurred. No statement has been released by the company to even acknowledge that there is a problem. Failure to address the problem by MM has facilitated this uncertain and emotive discussion regarding the latest product. If MM's reputation suffers as a result that has to be attributed to inaction and its handling of the situation. One can only speculate on the reasons that this has endured without any direct statement from MM. Frequently they reasons are fiscal in nature, designed to protect the company while modelers are expected to purchase poor product to subsidize this.

 

Honestly, I hope that MM does something to address this situation for its own sake. I understand all that has been said regarding dealing with a Chinese producer, again a modern business decision. I have only heard third party opinion regarding the MM's thoughts regarding the situation. It has ample opportunity to express these on its own website, or on here if it prefers. Many other models shops etc. are members on here and have the opportunity to address issues raised by members regarding their business. While anyone on here is entitled to an opinion I believe that MM should speak for itself.

 

I hope that MM will address this soon and hope that it continues to produce good quality products that is synonymous with its name.

[Glenderg]

Whether I agree or not, these posts need to be moved to another thread. It spoils one of the finest threads on this board. Perhaps the mk2 thread modz?

[DiveController]

Whether I agree or not, these posts need to be moved to another thread. It spoils one of the finest threads on this board. Perhaps the mk2 thread modz?

Agree with Richie, this has strayed from the topic somewhat.

EDIT: ALTHOUGH I have to say that all the posts regarding the discussion of MK2d quality and Murphy models should have been moved here from the Lima Models thread if they are not pertinent to that thread…...

Edited April 4, 2015 by DiveController

[Kirley]

Colour difference.

 

I got some Mk II Supertrain coaches sometime ago but have never ran them. Finally got around to blowing some CIE Golden Brown paint over them. A couple of pictures to show the colour variation.

 

 

[Noel]

Thanks for posting. That colour looks a lot better than the poor plastic factory colour they came out of the box. Would love to see some photos of the sides when you have finished the respray, especially the where the black meets the golden brown along the windows. This was one area that let some of the ST coaches down.

[Railer]

Any news or word from the man himself regarding the all new and improved Supertrain Mk2s? The last update on the Murphy site has a rough due date of mid summer and that was posted back in the new year.

[Noel]

Any news or word from the man himself regarding the all new and improved Supertrain Mk2s? The last update on the Murphy site has a rough due date of mid summer and that was posted back in the new year.

 

Ping! Has anybody any news or information about when the 're-vamped' Mk2 ST coaches might arrive?

 

Re-vamped MkII coaches in Supertrain livery are due to arrive mid-year. These will be an improvement on the original consignment following prolonged discussions with the factory! Note that these will have new fleet/catalogue numbers (to be advised) and are brand new models - not repaints. http://www.murphymodels.com

[craven1508]

this seem,s to have died a death? will we ever see them?

[NIRCLASS80]

I was looking forward to the IR version myself.

[Portoman]

I was talking to the man himself at the Raheny show and he was saying the chinese were messing him around no end. He mentioned it will be some time next year, probably around time the 121 is comming

[Noel]

I was talking to the man himself at the Raheny show and he was saying the chinese were messing him around no end. He mentioned it will be some time next year, probably around time the 121 is comming

 

Thanks for the info Portoman.

[MKrocker]

This is the problem Mr Murphy and the UK Model companies have, they get their product made in the far east and are basically put at the back of the queue, Hornby and Bachmann have projects on hold/delayed for ages.

You have to feel sorry for the man!

I suppose it gives us time to save!!!

[craven1508]

Mr Murphy has given us more joy with his master pieces so far, the odd blip

along the way but, if we are patient, im sure there is more to come.

[Noel]

Lightly weathered a MM mk2 ST coach for a friend. The prototype Supertrain livery never really floated my boat, but after a bit of weathering I'm beginning to change my mind.  These after all are closer in time to my favourite B&T era than the later more attractive tippex livery, and overlapped operations with B&T livery stock for much of the 1970s.

Used a mix of airbrushing and weathering powders applied wet using paint brush and cotton buds (water+decalfix).

The roof now looks less like an air marshals day-glo bat.

[DiveController]

Nice job with the weathering but I feel like even the light weathering is overdone as most of these coaches were kept in pretty good condition as far as I recall ( always subject to user error , of course). However, he fact that I personally haven't actually done any physical weathering to any of my own stock probably diminishes the value of this opinion somewhat.....

[Noel]

16 hours ago, DiveController said:

Nice job with the weathering but I feel like even the light weathering is overdone as most of these coaches were kept in pretty good condition as far as I recall ( always subject to user error , of course). However, he fact that I personally haven't actually done any physical weathering to any of my own stock probably diminishes the value of this opinion somewhat.....

Hi Kevin. Cheers. No prob, it was done to the clients specs not mine.   

[Robert Shrives]

Very effective , looking at many 1990s and earlier vids on line and on old VHS it looks like roof is not far off but others looked much cleaner. Certainly better than on BR at the time with dirty stock and peeling roof paint.  I wondered if it was due to the seemingly cleaner exhausts - very few clag shots compared to 31 - 50s on tapes.  

I guess we want the past to be a clean memeory- hot summers etc and so we imagine trains to be cleaner , on time and  locohauled...  Model wise muted colours on  a roof look better given our normal look down view, a bit of grime in joins and around hatches helps, - I like the comment on dayglo bats !

Robert 

 

[BEANO3005]

Hello Everyone

This is my first post on here. I am a big fan of the railways and delighted to see all the interest been put into the Irish models. Most of the models to date have been brilliant and all the models from IRM have been Fantastic. (Take a bow lads). 

However I am very disappointed with the latest mk2 from Murphy Models. The look great but are of very poor build. They are no comparison to the Cravens or Bachmann mk2. The tension lock coupling cannot be removed unless it is cut off from the back. The slightest movement and the sprocket come out causing derailment. The wheels are of very poor quality. The electrical boxes on the underframe are falling off. I sent back a coach after 2 of the ribs on the roof were broken off in the box.  I go as far as to compare them to coaches that were giving out free in a magazine publication a couple of years ago. The lower orange part is painted to high (too close to the windows). After the fiasco of the first batch of Super train coaches with the black showing through the orange I thought the quality control dept would make an effort. The price of them are close to €60 and for that you would expect a quality product. I am disappointed to say these are not a quality product. Any feed back from other modellers would be welcome. 

[Noel]

10 hours ago, BEANO3005 said:

Hello Everyone

This is my first post on here. I am a big fan of the railways and delighted to see all the interest been put into the Irish models. Most of the models to date have been brilliant and all the models from IRM have been Fantastic. (Take a bow lads). 

However I am very disappointed with the latest mk2 from Murphy Models. The look great but are of very poor build. They are no comparison to the Cravens or Bachmann mk2. The tension lock coupling cannot be removed unless it is cut off from the back. The slightest movement and the sprocket come out causing derailment. The wheels are of very poor quality. The electrical boxes on the underframe are falling off. I sent back a coach after 2 of the ribs on the roof were broken off in the box.  I go as far as to compare them to coaches that were giving out free in a magazine publication a couple of years ago. The lower orange part is painted to high (too close to the windows). After the fiasco of the first batch of Super train coaches with the black showing through the orange I thought the quality control dept would make an effort. The price of them are close to €60 and for that you would expect a quality product. I am disappointed to say these are not a quality product. Any feed back from other modellers would be welcome. 

Sorry to hear about this. I was very disappointed with the poor quality from the first batch, especially the paint job, and incorrect shade of orange, but I didn't loose faith and I have just received some new ones from MM batch 2 from Marks and hope they are better.  Will give some feedback after I have had a chance to weather them. Hopefully no bits will fall off. The Mk2 coaches in general and especially the Supertrain livery were indeed disappointing compared to the sublime highs of the Bachmann/Murphy Models 141/181 locos and then the Craven coaches.

My main bug bear with all the MM mk2d coaches is the NEM pocket was completely wrong. Mind you I was able to get the tension lock couplings out of the NEM pockets on mine by shaving a tiny bit of plastic off the ends of the tongs. They then easily pulled out. Most annoying was having to glue kadee NEM couplings to the underside of the NEM pockets rather than plug them in because the height was so wrong. Unforgivable at this price point IMHO but not the end of the world either. It was a joy and most pleasant discovery to find that the NEM pockets on the IRM Tara wagons were perfectly positioned and allowed quick and easy 'plug and play' replacement of the supplied tension lock couplings with Kadee no 18 couplings which work perfectly with these lovely little bogie wagons.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Noel
Typo

[Railer]

Just the other day I got 2 Mk2Ds from IRM before they sold out. One was fine out the box, the other... well. The other coach 5202, I opened the box and 2 of the battery boxes were sitting at the bottom along with a small bit of perspex that I instantly could see were the gangway door windows.

Now, the battery boxes were not damaged they had just dropped out. One of the return springs on one of the coupler was not fitted. This to me was either a rush job coach or a shop return. You could see the dried in glue on the window panel. So, After paying €50 I have fit and glue 2 battery boxes, pop the roof off and fit and glue the gangway way window and fit a spring to the return coupler collar. Not at all impressed with MM Mk2 range as its not the first time I've had to fix up coaches or return them out of the box.

No offence to PM but I'd like to see IRM do the entire MK2 range as I feel the MM ones are very poor for the money.

[Noel]

@Railer Just bad luck I guess. I've never had probs like that with the MM mk2, my only dissatisfaction was the incorrect NEM pocket locations requiring surgery to use Kadee couplings properly. They did not seem quite on the same stratospheric quality level as the hyper detailed MM craven coaches, but they seem pretty nice coaches. Weathering helps deal with the yellow shade of orange that was used. I bought a rake last year from Marks models (ie the later corrected batch) and happy to report none of the painting issues in the first seemed evident. Never had any part of the sub chassis fall off. A bit modern for my preferred era but would love to see IRM/AS do Irish Mk3 coaches including the push pull sets.

[WRENNEIRE]

2 hours ago, Railer said:

Just the other day I got 2 Mk2Ds from IRM before they sold out. One was fine out the box, the other... well. The other coach 5202, I opened the box and 2 of the battery boxes were sitting at the bottom along with a small bit of perspex that I instantly could see were the gangway door windows.

Now, the battery boxes were not damaged they had just dropped out. One of the return springs on one of the coupler was not fitted. This to me was either a rush job coach or a shop return. You could see the dried in glue on the window panel. So, After paying €50 I have fit and glue 2 battery boxes, pop the roof off and fit and glue the gangway way window and fit a spring to the return coupler collar. Not at all impressed with MM Mk2 range as its not the first time I've had to fix up coaches or return them out of the box.

No offence to PM but I'd like to see IRM do the entire MK2 range as I feel the MM ones are very poor for the money.

You only paid €50 for them man, RRP is still €58.50 so a bit of work and you still got a bargain

[Railer]

47 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

You only paid €50 for them man, RRP is still €58.50 so a bit of work and you still got a bargain

Only reason I went for them was the price, as I already have 6 from the second batch but I don't feel the quality control justifies the full RRP on these at all. I've had quality issues with most of Mk2Ds I've bought, I must be unlucky I don't know out of the 30 odd ones I have. 

Craven's and locos, no issues except for one 201 out of the box. 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

Have sold loads of the and no quality issues raised by the buyers, have a black roofed Mk2d EGV with some paint missing between the roof and the window line, keeping it in the collection, but I think that's the only one that was returned, Birthday wouldnt start with a 13 by any chance?

[JasonB]

22 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Have sold loads of the and no quality issues raised by the buyers,

That's because they're afraid they'll have both their arms broke Dave   

[WRENNEIRE]

Pick a window Jason 

[Sails]

On 6/26/2020 at 9:06 PM, Railer said:

Not at all impressed with MM Mk2 range as its not the first time I've had to fix up coaches or return them out of the box.

I also had problems with my coaches, one coach had a wheel set missing and two others had mis-aligned wheel sets, not the end of the world but not what you expect either.