DiveController Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Saw them today for the 1st time, This time the cash stayed in the Pocket, It will go towards the APT-E with Sound instead..... Not reassured. Big expense to order these, ship them to US and return them if they're not right:( Quote
Riversuir226 Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Saw them in the flesh yesterday, Think this sums up my thoughts on them. Quote
Noel Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 disaster??? !! At least nobody died in the disaster Quote
StevieB Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 One of the concerns is the livery and, in particular, the shade of 'orange' used. Well, have a look at this http://stationworld.web.fc2.com/uk/ireland/manullajunction.htm. Stephen Quote
steventrain Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Visit at modellers Cornner in Enniskillen last Saturday and saw lots of MK2 Supertrain. It look stunning! Quote
aclass007 Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 One of the concerns is the livery and, in particular, the shade of 'orange' used. Well, have a look at this http://stationworld.web.fc2.com/uk/ireland/manullajunction.htm. Stephen The coaches in that link are the later livery from the IR/IE era. The MM coaches are indeed very similar to that livery. However, the earlier supertrain livery, which these latest MM coaches represent was actually much darker. It was a tan colour. ttc0169 looks good in the photo, though! Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) The coaches in that picture at Manulla need to be looked at in the context of one lot being in shadow, with t he ones on the right having bright sun shining on them. Like any colour, that will result in a totally different look in photographs. In reality the difference, which as aclass007 says looks considerable, was nothing like as different. The post 1990 shade was more orangey (i.e. less "tan") rather than darker or lighter. While I know this isn't what is being referred to above, but as an aside to this, you will often hear it said that CIE's tan / orange / "golden brown"(!), or the GNR(I)'s loco blue, or earlier CIE green were, respectively "a million shades" of the various colours at different times. That's myth, usually borne of simple lack of accurate research. Actual post-1990 shade paint exists on some RPSI Cravens; the loco blue used at Whitehead is accurate, the light CIE green on C231 on the DCDR is accurate, and actual darker CIE green exists on Maedb in Cultra and on the flying snail crest in Enniskillen railway museum. When referring to colour photos, it's important to consider lighting, the quality of the film (judge by surrounding scenery, sky colour, people's skin colour, plant colours), and the likely degree of actual weathering or fading of the subject matter in the photograph. Reference to several photos will usually give a better idea than one, and will highlight differences (or even cast doubt on theories that there were any!). Eyewitness accounts can be extremely reliable, or totally unreliable / plain wrong, depending on the artistic eye or memory of the beholder, or even the level of interest they had when they initially saw it. Edited February 2, 2015 by jhb171achill Quote
Railer Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 IE used orange shade (RAL 2011) after 1990 or so. Before that it was all tan. Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Correct, railer; just two shades 1962-recently. New 071's, painted in the States, were the exception as mentioned elsewhere, and their browny colour didn't survive first repaint. Quote
Railer Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Correct, railer; just two shades 1962-recently. New 071's, painted in the States, were the exception as mentioned elsewhere, and their browny colour didn't survive first repaint. Only last week I saw a very good slide on ebay featuring 084 hauling a Mk3 set out of Heuston. 084 was still in GM livery and you could see the contrast against the then new ST livery on the Mk3 EGV. 084 must have been one of the last to get ST livery. It was the last loco in service with the IE livery and all. Quote
Noel Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Only last week I saw a very good slide on ebay featuring 084 hauling a Mk3 set out of Heuston. 084 was still in GM livery and you could see the contrast against the then new ST livery on the Mk3 EGV. 084 must have been one of the last to get ST livery. It was the last loco in service with the IE livery and all. Interesting clip of mk3 supertrain sound demo, but I was just interested in the coach colours and the black intercity lettering. These look quite good and close to loco colour. [video=youtube_share;oDiEKnC-Q-I] Edited February 9, 2015 by Noel Quote
Blaine Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting clip of mk3 supertrain sound demo, but I was just interested in the coach colours and the black intercity lettering. These look quite good and close to loco colour. Filmed under fluorescent lights along with compression, hardly judgeable. Also the loco is the one in repainted CIE orange rather than original. Decide when the models are infront of your own eyes.... Quote
irishthump Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Filmed under fluorescent lights along with compression, hardly judgeable. Also the loco is the one in repainted CIE orange rather than original. Decide when the models are infront of your own eyes.... Actually, they were filmed under regular, incandescent bulbs.... But anyway here's some more pics of them from my workbench thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/77-Graham-s-Workbench/page4 These were taken in more natural light. Quote
Noel Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Actually, they were filmed under regular, incandescent bulbs.... But anyway here's some more pics of them from my workbench thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/77-Graham-s-Workbench/page4 These were taken in more natural light. That link is a super thread IT. I found the Mk3 supertrain coach conversion, kadee and weathering post very useful and informative (bookmarked). Your supertrain Mk3s look spot on colour wise and also the black intercity decals look great. Edited February 11, 2015 by Noel Quote
aclass007 Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Hattons don't seem to have the Mk2 Supertrain coaches in stock yet. I wonder if they are going to bother stocking them at all? Quote
Blaine Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Hattons are no longer a Murphy Models stockist - that is all Quote
StevieB Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I asked both Hattons and Cheltenham Model Centre recently about stocking the new MM mk2d's and they both had no plans to stock them - too small a market perhaps! Stephen Quote
DiveController Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I asked both Hattons and Cheltenham Model Centre recently about stocking the new MM mk2d's and they both had no plans to stock them - too small a market perhaps! Stephen Or maybe if there are problems with some of the coaches they do not want to get involved with the product. I had noticed that Hattons did not seem to stock the Mk2ds and their stocks of MM seem to be dwindling, so maybe Blaine is right. They are still listed as a stockist on MM website but that is also frequently out of date. Where is your info from Blaine? Quote
DiveController Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Actually, they were filmed under regular, incandescent bulbs.... But anyway here's some more pics of them from my workbench thread http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/77-Graham-s-Workbench/page4 These were taken in more natural light. I think they look great, IT. Presumably they're resprays from the original Lima IE coaches? Quote
Blaine Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 Or maybe if there are problems with some of the coaches they do not want to get involved with the product. I had noticed that Hattons did not seem to stock the Mk2ds and their stocks of MM seem to be dwindling, so maybe Blaine is right. They are still listed as a stockist on MM website but that is also frequently out of date. Where is your info from Blaine? My sources are from within the trade. Hattons no longer being a stockist is more to do with how they sell the product rather than the product itself Quote
RedRich Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 I think they look great, IT. Presumably they're resprays from the original Lima IE coaches? They are the old shorter length Hornby coaches. Rich, Quote
irishthump Posted March 9, 2015 Posted March 9, 2015 They are the old shorter length Hornby coaches. Rich, Correct! Quote
Noel Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Looks like a few brand new super train coaches may be going for a keen price on ebay. The photographs being perpendicular in the box make the black panels look parallel unless you look at them right way up. Might be a good deal for those who wish to respray tip-pex white stripes on. http://www.ebay.ie/itm/131464071319?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 Quote
craven1508 Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 picked up my supertrain composite + egv, they are nice models but the finish is of a poor standard in terms of livery, i think a good weathering is the only answer Quote
Warbonnet Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 picked up my supertrain composite + egv, they are nice models but the finish is of a poor standard in terms of livery, i think a good weathering is the only answer There is also the option of a proper repaint over the poor finish. Weathering wont hide a poor paint job completely. Quote
burnthebox Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 picked up my supertrain composite + egv, they are nice models but the finish is of a poor standard in terms of livery, i think a good weathering is the only answer Ching, €'s, Ching, €'s, Ching, €'s, Quote
craven1508 Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 very true on the money signs! yes and the the repaint job may happen? Quote
Noel Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 very true on the money signs! yes and the the repaint job may happen? Given the 'alleged' black overspray and 'alleged' variability of the black panel positioning around the windows, would spraying the IE/IR white stripes above and below the black panel correct most of the problems? Ok decals would also be needed for intercity logos on the lower panels, but if these couches can be got for under €30-40 such an inexpensive modification could make sense for folks looking for IE/IR orange roofed mk2ds. Quote
DiveController Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Given the 'alleged' black overspray and 'alleged' variability of the black panel positioning around the windows, would spraying the IE/IR white stripes above and below the black panel correct most of the problems? Ok decals would also be needed for intercity logos on the lower panels, but if these couches can be got for under €30-40 such an inexpensive modification could make sense for folks looking for IE/IR orange roofed mk2ds. That may work if you want a different livery but it is about E35 for a full respray if you can't do it yourself. These are supposed to be rtr models not kits. So cost of model plus respray plus possible additional price increase already announced by Marks Models due to weaker euro means these are some of the most expensive MM coaches of all time. MM has done nothing about it nor does it intend to by the looks of it. Quote
RedRich Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 4 Given the 'alleged' black overspray and 'alleged' variability of the black panel positioning around the windows, would spraying the IE/IR white stripes above and below the black panel correct most of the problems? Ok decals would also be needed for intercity logos on the lower panels, but if these couches can be got for under €30-40 such an inexpensive modification could make sense for folks looking for IE/IR orange roofed mk2ds. You mention the word alleged like it is an allegation and not a fact. I have seen some and the paint separation is very fuzzy and not straight from end to end. I do feel sorry for MM as he is left with the stock. However the factory are at fault for sending out poorly painted models. As for spraying the 3 inch white lines there are the correct decals available. You won't however get away with applying decals and logos and passing these coaches off as IE or IR coaches as the main colour is wrong for that livery. Therefore if a full repaint of one of these into a correct shade for the Supertrain livery with the correct shade of paint and crisp separation between colours is what you want, you could be talking about €90 if they don't drop in price. It is a shame it has happened but that's the risk when the product is being produced on the other side of the world. Rich, Quote
Glenderg Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 €35 notes for masking off the centre, taking the body apart and adding the desired Colour? Someone's having a laugh Dive. Quote
WRENNEIRE Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 . MM has done nothing about it nor does it intend to by the looks of it. There is no one more upset about these coaches than Paddy Murphy All the good & hard work he has done over the last 15 years is at stake here He has made contact with the manufacturers and is trying to address the problems Its not like you can hop on the DART and drop over to them These things take time and hopefully we should hear some news shortly Quote
DiveController Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 4 You mention the word alleged like it is an allegation and not a fact. I have seen some and the paint separation is very fuzzy and not straight from end to end. I do feel sorry for MM as he is left with the stock. However the factory are at fault for sending out poorly painted models. As for spraying the 3 inch white lines there are the correct decals available. You won't however get away with applying decals and logos and passing these coaches off as IE or IR coaches as the main colour is wrong for that livery. Therefore if a full repaint of one of these into a correct shade for the Supertrain livery with the correct shade of paint and crisp separation between colours is what you want, you could be talking about €90 if they don't drop in price. It is a shame it has happened but that's the risk when the product is being produced on the other side of the world. Rich, Rich, I think that Noel is aware of problems with these but it has become a sensitive topic on this forum with some insisting that there is no problem. It's not in everyones interest to highlight the problem and some of the comments are probably not without bias. I'm sorry, it is what it is, guys! I have not seen these coaches in the flesh. The US (internet based) supplier swears he has sold many of them and no complaints. I am not quite as sympathetic to MM as you. If there is a problem with them, there has been nothing iterated to buyers regarding a hassle-free return or replacement of the poor quality of defective items. Not all are in poor shape but from what I hear from members maybe a third to half have problems. MM is fully aware of the problem and if it is unable to have this rectified with the supplier or does not wish to and the attitude is that they'll eventually all sell as we're such a tiny market with limited options, that certainly does not earn my respect or sympathy. MM dealing with this problem at the outset would have done a lot more to earn my trust in the company. Quote
Glenderg Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 There is no one more upset about these coaches than Paddy MurphyAll the good & hard work he has done over the last 15 years is at stake here He has made contact with the manufacturers and is trying to address the problems Its not like you can hop on the DART and drop over to them These things take time and hopefully we should hear some news shortly +1 - well said daithi. Dive - sort out your pm inbox. Its full. Quote
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