Dutch gen van

[richrua]

Hi guys. What bogies do the Dutch gen vans sit on ?

[Glenderg]

werkspoor droopy looking yokes. I don't know of any cosmetic bogie sideframes that are commercially available (EMc?) or what the most suitable wheelbase chasis donor is. 8'2 and change wheelbase.

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/content.php/262-Werkspoor-Dutch-GSV-Van-Drawings - but be careful of these drawings. I scratchbuilt a model using these dimensions, and it looked like an ogre.

[richrua]

Thanks Glenderg. Thought they were unusual looking things. Thanks for the details. Unfortunately I have a sudden weakness for gen vans once I realised there were none in my formations. They are very interesting tbh

[John-r]

Thanks Glenderg. Thought they were unusual looking things. Thanks for the details. Unfortunately I have a sudden weakness for gen vans once I realised there were none in my formations. They are very interesting tbh ��

 

Like yourself richrua, I have a weakness for the Dutch vans,unfortunately I would not have the skills

To build,scratch build or paint one. However if any of the irm team are watching what are the chances

Of both versions being produced at some stage, seeing as most trains needed a Dutch van.

Sorry to go off topic a small bit on you richrua.

[Railer]

Thing is, with gen vans, to go into production you would want to be confident that you can sell around 1,000 units. Most people would probably buy 1 or 2 maybe 3. But with the like of a wagon run you have alot of people buying 12 or more units each.

[Noel]

Like yourself richrua, I have a weakness for the Dutch vans,unfortunately I would not have the skills

To build,scratch build or paint one. However if any of the irm team are watching what are the chances

Of both versions being produced at some stage, seeing as most trains needed a Dutch van.

Sorry to go off topic a small bit on you richrua.

 

I was happy enough with this RTR one from SF. Now what I would really like are a few of the earlier heating and luggage vans with the nice shaped tumbledown.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Noel

[DiveController]

On 9/25/2016 at 7:31 AM, Railer said:

Thing is, with gen vans, to go into production you would want to be confident that you can sell around 1,000 units. Most people would probably buy 1 or 2 maybe 3. But with the like of a wagon run you have alot of people buying 12 or more units each.

Interestingly on Gerry Conmy's Youtube channel at 27:50 I came across a MkII rake with what appears to be a Dutch van at either end. Any ideas why this might be or am I just talking Double Dutch here?

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by DiveController

[Dhu Varren]

The train is comprised of Mk 2a & b coaches which, being ex BR, have a different electrical system to the Mk2d coaches of IE. Three Dutch Vans were converted from steam heat to electrical generators to run with the Mk 2a & b coaches. Presumably two Dutch Vans were required in the formation in the clip, due to the number of coaches.   

[Brendan8056]

 I used the Chris Leigh blue pullman trailer bogies on my scratchbuilt Dutch van about 25 years ago. They looked right, are to 4mm scale and based on a continental design.  I would assume the Kitmaster blue pullman trailer bogies would also be suitable. Both are long out of production but can be found secondhand.

   You could always ask Bachmann if they could sell you a couple? I think they are doing a rerun blue pullman at the moment, so may have some left over..

[DJ Dangerous]

What differences are there between original and rebuilt Dutch Vans, both cosmetically and technically?

I see above that three were converted from GSVs to EGVs!

Are they the three which became known as the "Rebuilt" ones or were the rebuilds and the GSV / EGV conversions two completely different things?

When were they converted?

[jhb171achill]

Internally, different generators.

Externally, apart from livery changes, the rebuilt ones had those ugly "appendages" stuck onto the ends. Gawd knows what was in them, but it doesn't matter - you can't see inside them!

[DJ Dangerous]

Yeah, those "shoulders" really stand out!

Was the GSV to EGV conversion the "rebuilding"?

[jhb171achill]

Just now, DJ Dangerous said:

Yeah, those "shoulders" really stand out!

Was the GSV to EGV conversion the "rebuilding"?

Yes, it was.

They re-did the livery to "tippex" style too. 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, it was.

They re-did the livery to "tippex" style too. 

Unfortunately, my SF model has the dual white stripes but not the big shoulders.

So it's kind of a Dutch mongrel.

Was it three or four that were converted?

[jhb171achill]

16 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Unfortunately, my SF model has the dual white stripes but not the big shoulders.

So it's kind of a Dutch mongrel.

Was it three or four that were converted?

I think it was three, with the other seven remaining as they were.

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I think it was three, with the other seven remaining as they were.

Those three being for the sixteen (was it sixteen) Mk2's from Vic Berry?

[Niles]

4601, 4602 and 4603 were the three conversions - they were retained a little while after the mk2as were scrapped for use on airbrake transfers, pretty sure I remember seeing them at Heuston for this purpose. Two of them ended up on the 'Speno' train around 2006(?) - I think this was a track recording vehicle rented prior to the Sperry but my memory's foggy there. I think it may have only been for one season. I think they were also renumbered in the 11XX series by this stage, as were a couple of the unconverted vac vans, principally for transfers in the Dublin area.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Niles

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, Niles said:

4601, 4602 and 4603 were the three conversions - they were retained a little while after the mk2as were scrapped for use on airbrake transfers, pretty sure I remember seeing them at Heuston for this purpose. Two of them ended up on the 'Speno' train around 2006(?) - I think this was a track recording vehicle rented prior to the Sperry but my memory's foggy there. I think it may have only been for one season. I think they were also renumbered in the 11XX series by this stage, as were a couple of the unconverted vac vans, principally for transfers in the Dublin area.

Speno sounds like something you made up just to troll idiots like me who don't know any better.

[Niles]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Speno sounds like something you made up just to troll idiots like me who don't know any better.

I was beginning to question if I'd imagined it myself... thankfully the Wanderer has recorded it, if something modern-ish isn't recorded on that site it didn't happen! https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2006-photos/Speno-Track-Recording-Car/

For the carriage nerds like me, it's also notable that in renumbering to 11XX they (partly) regained their original numbers from their pre-mk2 steam heating days... 1162 née 4601 née 3162 etc...

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Niles

[Robert Shrives]

Have to say I got the original dutch van from SF and mugged up  the "apendages" and a new end from plasticard and a jouef MK3 donor for the corridor connections and a load of filler - got as far as the grills which to me looked like MK3 Gen vehicle spares - but can you get then on their own - so now looking at how to use suitable plasticard  made grills - but having made a start with the Enterprise have enough grill material from the power car bodies - to last a long time or several attempts, this thread could well tempt be to get it out of the naughty toys box for another go.   

[Dhu Varren]

If all else fails, scratchbuild one.

The van is entirely made from plastic sheet, rod and strip. The only commercial parts used, were the two Hornby brake van roofs used to form the basic roof profile, the gangways are by Jouef, and the buffers are by MJT. As shown, the EGV is running on Jouef Mk 3 bogies, but has now been fitted with correct pattern bogies from Silver Fox.

The pictures show the completed van, firstly in bare plastic, then in Halfords grey primer, and finally fully finished and painted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robert Shrives]

Dhu Varren - It was the build report and esp grills on yours that inspired me so thanks for showing again!   Sadly I guess the sales of rtr fall on the same alter as the weedspray / GSV but by an even bigger margin ...  Even a pregrouping British 2-4-0 will sell more if latest news is to be believed ( off topic I wonder if the chassis will be of bigger help to bashers and scratchers out and about / on here .)   

[Dhu Varren]

16 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

Have to say I got the original dutch van from SF and mugged up  the "apendages" and a new end from plasticard and a jouef MK3 donor for the corridor connections and a load of filler - got as far as the grills which to me looked like MK3 Gen vehicle spares - but can you get then on their own - so now looking at how to use suitable plasticard  made grills - but having made a start with the Enterprise have enough grill material from the power car bodies - to last a long time or several attempts, this thread could well tempt be to get it out of the naughty toys box for another go.   

Robert, it just came to me that recently I purchased from Model Irish Railways on ebay, some assorted brass etches of various coach parts. Included in these were some Mk 3 EGV vents. It might be worth contacting Ian McNally at MIR to see if he still has any.  David

[DJ Dangerous]

The Dutch Van kits sold by DC Kits, are they Silver Fox kits or IFM kits or whose kits are they?

What is required to complete them?

Are they body and chassis only, no bogies or details like buffers etc?

[flange lubricator]

38 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

The Dutch Van kits sold by DC Kits, are they Silver Fox kits or IFM kits or whose kits are they?

What is required to complete them?

Are they body and chassis only, no bogies or details like buffers etc?

I got one recently from DC kits but it was just the body I think that’s all he had left  , I got the bogies from silverfox and made the chassis myself. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by flange lubricator

[Noel]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

The Dutch Van kits sold by DC Kits, are they Silver Fox kits or IFM kits or whose kits are they?

What is required to complete them?

Are they body and chassis only, no bogies or details like buffers etc?

I don't know where DC source them from. Silverfox didn't release a rebuilt version. I got basic kit from IFM last year but where Tom got it from I know not.

Since had to make some chassis box gubbins for under the chassis. I only bought the kit to have something to run with my Bachmann mk2a intercity coaches.

I put sprung buffers on mine and boiler tanks inside.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Noel
typo lexdysia and predictive text

[flange lubricator]

17 minutes ago, Noel said:

I don't know where DC source them from. Silverfox didn't release a rebuilt version. I got basic kit from IFM last year but where Tom got it from I know not.

Since had to make some chassis box gubbins for under the chassis. I only bought the kit to have something to run with my Bachmann mk2a intercity coaches.

I put sprung buffers on mine and boiler tanks inside.

Great job Noel , you don’t need boilers on these as they were removed during the conversion to EGV . 

[Noel]

2 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

Great job Noel , you don’t need boilers on these as they were removed during the conversion to EGV . 

 Oh great I'll rip them out  Cheers (in jest) But I'll keep them in the RPSI original dutch GSV

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Noel

[flange lubricator]

1 minute ago, Noel said:

 Oh great I'll rip them out  Cheers

Sorry about that 

[Noel]

Just now, flange lubricator said:

Sorry about that 

No Problem. I just realised I may have put kerosine into B135 instead of diesel  

Hopefully the dutch will keep RPSI customers warm and happy

[flange lubricator]

1 minute ago, Noel said:

No Problem. I just realised I may have put kerosine into B135 instead of diesel  

B135 is an EMD 2 stoke diesel it will burn it anyway 

[murphaph]

4 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

I got one recently from DC kits but it was just the body I think that’s all he had left  , I got the bogies from silverfox and made the chassis myself. 

How much did you pay for the body only if you don't mind me asking?

[flange lubricator]

5 minutes ago, murphaph said:

How much did you pay for the body only if you don't mind me asking?

As far as i remember about £30 I ordered and paid for the complete kit and they contacted me too say they had no more bogies so I asked them to supply the body only which they did and organised a refund for the difference , I looked at the IFM one but thought the buffers were too high so I got the DC kits one instead .

[NIR]

DC Kits are not into stocking bits and pieces these days, more along the lines of if it's gone it's gone.

Edited November 25, 2020 by NIR

[Noel]

53 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

. . . I looked at the IFM one but thought the buffers were too high so I got the DC kits one instead .

Agree . . . and they were too big, tonka tank big. I substituted the 3D buffers with sprung metal buffers from Peter's spares.

[Lough Erne]

Just seeing this now. For info. the earlier type of Dutch Van that supplied steam are fitted with 2 boilers rather than 3. On the model the boiler visible through the third window (the window with 'rpsi' underneath) is a storage area.