Class 121

[Alan564017]

Anybody have any updates on when the 121's might hit the shelves?

[DiveController]

Usually one would have some news if it was destined to be ready for (say) an Easter show.... and Chinese New Year will come before that. I doubt we will see anything before mid-year but someone may know more?

[Railer]

Marks models told me xmas 2017 at the earliest for the 121s.

[craven1508]

heard same yesterday! mmmm at the earliest?

[Railer]

Yeah, they reckon the refreshed Supertrain Mk2s for the summer maybe along with some more 201s before the 121s get here.

[jhb171achill]

Hats off to those who produce Irish models, but have to deal with factories and work practices a long way from here. It must be frustrating for them when delays occur. The main thing is that a model of this stature, and anything else MM have done, is WELL worth the wait.

[Noel]

Hats off to those who produce Irish models, but have to deal with factories and work practices a long way from here. It must be frustrating for them when delays occur. The main thing is that a model of this stature, and anything else MM have done, is WELL worth the wait.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. We have little to complain about. We have amazing MM 141, 181, 071, and 201s to play with while we wait for 121. But a dream only 10 years ago, and a figment of any Irish modellers imagination 40 years ago. Our expectations have been raised in the past decade, wait and see within weeks of the 121 being released to much applause there will be cries for an A-Class model

[jhb171achill]

Only ten or fifteen years ago, anyone who suggested a ready to run high quality original model of anything Irish, let alone an engine, would have been rapidly escorted to the Home for the Incurably Retarded, Demented and Hopelessly Delusional.........

 

(Leinster House and Stormont were the relevant institutions, and still are)...

[WRENNEIRE]

Only ten or fifteen years ago, anyone who suggested a ready to run high quality original model of anything Irish, let alone an engine, would have been rapidly escorted to the Home for the Incurably Retarded, Demented and Hopelessly Delusional.........

 

(Leinster House and Stormont were the relevant institutions, and still are)...

 

Irish Railway Modeller comes a close second in my books JHB :mad:

[Blaine]

Only ten or fifteen years ago, anyone who suggested a ready to run high quality original model of anything Irish, let alone an engine, would have been rapidly escorted to the Home for the Incurably Retarded, Demented and Hopelessly Delusional.........

 

 

The Murphy Models 201 were launched in 2001, along with the 141's following in 2007 - so thats sixteen and ten years ago respectively. Perhaps it is time for you

[Junctionmad]

Anybody have any updates on when the 121's might hit the shelves?

 

paddy at raheny, said to me late this year ( 2017)

[Noel]

paddy at raheny, said to me late this year ( 2017)

 

Hopefully that might suggest pre-production samples at the SDMRC show, and if all went well perhaps retail deliveries some months after that.

[Molderman]

I can remember when that class 33 came out over here in CIE colours and I thought wow a Irish loco and so it wasn't till I had a proper look at it at home that I soon realised that it wasn't the real thing and so it soon got consigned to box 101 totally disgusted with myself then there was the Lima 201 which I didn't discover for bout 7 years after release such a stupid boy ! . Fair play to MIR for his efforts and what he achieved and now look at what we have but the 121 is a long time coming !

Speaking to Dave Bracken a while ago about loco manufacture I was seriously thinking of going into Irish loco manufacture at my workshop here in Sussex but things are moving so fast what with 3D prototyping it rapidly became non viable and now we have mineral wagons and cement bubbles coming up which I eagerly await to order but my house move is slowing everything down for me but I'm hoping for a good year in 2017 god willing ! For my own layout but lots if work to be done !

Peadair.......

[DiveController]

I can remember when that class 33 came out over here in CIE colours and I thought wow a Irish loco and so it wasn't till I had a proper look at it at home that I soon realised that it wasn't the real thing and so it soon got consigned to box 101 totally disgusted with myself then there was the Lima 201 which I didn't discover for bout 7 years after release such a stupid boy ! . Fair play to MIR for his efforts and what he achieved and now look at what we have but the 121 is a long time coming !

Speaking to Dave Bracken a while ago about loco manufacture I was seriously thinking of going into Irish loco manufacture at my workshop here in Sussex but things are moving so fast what with 3D prototyping it rapidly became non viable and now we have mineral wagons and cement bubbles coming up which I eagerly await to order but my house move is slowing everything down for me but I'm hoping for a good year in 2017 god willing ! For my own layout but lots if work to be done !

Peadair.......

Well if you're game for it, an A class and maybe a J15 would sell well based on previous threads on here. If we don't see the 121 until end of 2017 (and that must be a provisional date, based on previous releases), I'm not entirely sure we'll ever see the A class let alone anything else

[Warbonnet]

Well if you're game for it, an A class and maybe a J15 would sell well based on previous threads on here. If we don't see the 121 until end of 2017 (and that must be a provisional date, based on previous releases), I'm not entirely sure we'll ever see the A class let alone anything else

 

I'm happy to bet that we will see an A Class Kevin. These things take time and resources.

[Molderman]

Well Dive I will have a look at things again after my house move as I do have an 'A' class prototype already cast and looks very good and any info on a j15 would help so I think that Dave B is right in his advice but it's just that things move so fast in prototyeping what with the advent of 3D printing and such !

[WRENNEIRE]

I was trawling through Wikipedia while eating my porridge this morning

 

 

Although originally fitted with an EMD 8-567CR engine of 960 horsepower (720 kW), all were later fitted with 645 type "power packs" (piston & liner assemblies) for parts standardisation, while at the same time keeping their original power output for reliability reasons. Numbers 126-129 were later rebuilt with an EMD 8-645E engine of 1,100 horsepower (820 kW); as used in the 181 Class locomotives.

All but three (121, 125, and 135) were fitted with Train Door Control equipment for operation with the Inchicore-built, BR Mark 3 based, Push-Pull train units. The push-pull equipment of locomotive 132 was subsequently decommissioned. Entering service in 1989, these trains, consisting of a single 121 Class and up to six carriages, were mainly used on the Dublin northern suburban passenger railway service.

 

Now I know PM is having a sound chip made for these locos and that he is thinking of different chips for the 2 different engine sizes

The EMD 8-645E was also used in the 181's

So I reckon we will have a factory made chip for the 181's when the 121's come on stream

I presume that there would be no reason why they could not be produced before the locos come on stream?

Happy days

[Garfield]

Aye, they received the 645E units from scrapped C class locos.

[jhb171achill]

For a model J15, there were a number of variations, not to mention different tenders used at various times.

 

With the SSM kit showing one variation, perhaps the larger (later) boilered variety, like 186, would be best. If modelling the grey/green era, a decent RTR six wheeler is a must. I'd be in the market for a good few.

[Noel]

I was trawling through Wikipedia while eating my porridge this morning

 

 

Although originally fitted with an EMD 8-567CR engine of 960 horsepower (720 kW), all were later fitted with 645 type "power packs" (piston & liner assemblies) for parts standardisation, while at the same time keeping their original power output for reliability reasons. Numbers 126-129 were later rebuilt with an EMD 8-645E engine of 1,100 horsepower (820 kW); as used in the 181 Class locomotives.

All but three (121, 125, and 135) were fitted with Train Door Control equipment for operation with the Inchicore-built, BR Mark 3 based, Push-Pull train units. The push-pull equipment of locomotive 132 was subsequently decommissioned. Entering service in 1989, these trains, consisting of a single 121 Class and up to six carriages, were mainly used on the Dublin northern suburban passenger railway service.

 

Now I know PM is having a sound chip made for these locos and that he is thinking of different chips for the 2 different engine sizes

The EMD 8-645E was also used in the 181's

So I reckon we will have a factory made chip for the 181's when the 121's come on stream

I presume that there would be no reason why they could not be produced before the locos come on stream?

Happy days

 

Interesting info Dave. So would Black'n'Tan 121s during 1960s have had 567CR or 645 engines?

 

Wheeltappers (http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled-5/index.html) have 6 variants for 141s and 181s (normal, tired, overhauled engine), with or without PowerDrive mode (PD) which is their implementation of LokSounds Full Throttle mode. I understand they plan to release a number of 121 variants. I have both PD and non-PD versions of their 141 and 181 and they sound really well. Will be changing the chip in my B121 later this week.

[Garfield]

Interesting info Dave. So would Black'n'Tan 121s during 1960s have had 567CR or 645 engines?

 

Hi Noel, as I said above, the 121s received the 645s from scrapped C classes (which were withdrawn in the mid-1980s). The re-engined 121s were the ones fitted with push-pull equipment.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Garfield

[Warbonnet]

You'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between the rootes blown 645 and the 567 originally fitted. It's quite subtle.

[Sails]

Entering service in 1989, these trains, consisting of a single 121 Class and up to six carriages, were mainly used on the Dublin northern suburban passenger railway service.

 

 

This is why I want to see this model, fond memories of travelling home from college, I think the 1825 from Pearse street to Dundalk, the grumbling 121 at the rear, good times.

[Noel]

Hi Noel, as I said above, the 121s received the 645s from scrapped C classes (which were withdrawn in the mid-1980s). The re-engined 121s were the ones fitted with push-pull equipment.

 

Thanks Patrick. So in the 1960s B&T 121s would have had the original 567CR. Noel

 

You'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between the rootes blown 645 and the 567 originally fitted. It's quite subtle.

 

Thanks Fran.

[Vlak]

Main difference between the EMD 567 & 645 engines was their engine speed. The EMD 567s fitted to the Irish BGMs idled at 275rpm & flat out ran at 835rpm. The 645 engines by comparison idled at 315rpm and in maximum power ran at 900rpm.

 

I guess the best analogy in relation to sound (roughly speaking) is the sound of a 181 idling is close to the sound of a 141 in notch 2. By comparison the sound of a 141 in max power is similar to that of a 181 between notches 6-7. The exhaust manifolds are both the same on each loco and has been commented they sound very similar.

[BSGSV]

The 121's didn't get 645 engines until the 1980's, when they were available from withdrawn C class. Both 567 and 645 equipped locos were fitted for Mk.111 push-pull operation, and (as far as I know, but could be wrong) all 15 were made able to work the AEC push-pull sets, when they were fitted with MU equipment in the 1970's.

[Noel]

Main difference between the EMD 567 & 645 engines was their engine speed. The EMD 567s fitted to the Irish BGMs idled at 275rpm & flat out ran at 835rpm. The 645 engines by comparison idled at 315rpm and in maximum power ran at 900rpm.

 

I guess the best analogy in relation to sound (roughly speaking) is the sound of a 181 idling is close to the sound of a 141 in notch 2. By comparison the sound of a 141 in max power is similar to that of a 181 between notches 6-7. The exhaust manifolds are both the same on each loco and has been commented they sound very similar.

 

The 121's didn't get 645 engines until the 1980's, when they were available from withdrawn C class. Both 567 and 645 equipped locos were fitted for Mk.111 push-pull operation, and (as far as I know, but could be wrong) all 15 were made able to work the AEC push-pull sets, when they were fitted with MU equipment in the 1970's.

 

Thanks guys, that is great information. I will go with a EMD 567 sound project for my B121 project which ran in 1960s in B&T livery.

[jhb171achill]

I know this is off topic..... I never discerned much difference between the old and later 121 engines, but I remember A & C well, and the unique-sounding "whistle" of the NIR Hunslets.

 

What I DON'T remember, but would love to hear, is the B101 sound, which I have no recollection of although I footplated one!

 

And the old Bollinder engines of CIE's Grand Canal barges....

[Garfield]

What I DON'T remember, but would love to hear, is the B101 sound, which I have no recollection of although I footplated one!

 

The Sulzers had 6LDA28 engines, which were also used in BR's class 24s. So, allowing for different exhausts, etc. I'd imagine they would have sounded something like this...

 

[irishthump]

You'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between the rootes blown 645 and the 567 originally fitted. It's quite subtle.

 

Maybe I watch to too many Youtube videos of the different locos (a disctinct possibility!) but I notice a marked difference between the 567 and 645. There is also a subtle difference between the original 567 and the ones overhauled with the 645 power assemblies. Hard to spot, but it is there.

[irishthump]

Interesting info Dave. So would Black'n'Tan 121s during 1960s have had 567CR or 645 engines?

 

Wheeltappers (http://www.wheeltappersdccsounds.co.uk/styled-5/index.html) have 6 variants for 141s and 181s (normal, tired, overhauled engine), with or without PowerDrive mode (PD) which is their implementation of LokSounds Full Throttle mode. I understand they plan to release a number of 121 variants. I have both PD and non-PD versions of their 141 and 181 and they sound really well. Will be changing the chip in my B121 later this week.

 

I assume Wheeltappers are using the recordings from the ESU website. The number of different US outline soundfiles has ballooned over the last few months. They have several versions of the 567, 645 and 710 engines. They even recently added a 567 fitted with the 645 power assembly.

[Warbonnet]

I assume Wheeltappers are using the recordings from the ESU website. The number of different US outline soundfiles has ballooned over the last few months. They have several versions of the 567, 645 and 710 engines. They even recently added a 567 fitted with the 645 power assembly.

 

Is it down to the number of cylinders per engine? I know the tsunami just offered a '645' for instance, which is anything between an 8 and 20 cylinder block. Yank outline customers were asking for specific sound recordings for each one (8, 12, 16, 20 etc)

[Noel]

I assume Wheeltappers are using the recordings from the ESU website. The number of different US outline soundfiles has ballooned over the last few months. They have several versions of the 567, 645 and 710 engines. They even recently added a 567 fitted with the 645 power assembly.

 

Hi Graham, I don't know to be honest. They supply normal, tired and overhauled engine sound variations for 141s and 181s (i.e. 6 variants with PD and 6 without PD). All I know is their LokSound projects sound better than the authentic recordings made here from actual IR/IE prototypes. I've a mix of PD and non-PD LokSounds, but to be honest I prefer driving the non-PD versions, just simpler to operate. Zimo/RealDrive remains my favourite to drive but the 141/181 sound is not as good as ESU, so I've gone ESU. Jeepers we are spoiled nowadays with sound options for Irish diesel models. Noel

[Noel]

Maybe I watch to too many Youtube videos of the different locos (a disctinct possibility!) but I notice a marked difference between the 567 and 645. There is also a subtle difference between the original 567 and the ones overhauled with the 645 power assemblies. Hard to spot, but it is there.

 

So it looks like two versions of 121 sound chips may be needed to cover most options. One for original 567 engined locos such in delivery grey/yellow, black'n'tan and early supertrain liveries, and one for 645 and 645E engines used in later era IE/IR livery locos. Are we at risk of nit picking?

[Warbonnet]

Maybe I watch to too many Youtube videos of the different locos (a disctinct possibility!) but I notice a marked difference between the 567 and 645. There is also a subtle difference between the original 567 and the ones overhauled with the 645 power assemblies. Hard to spot, but it is there.

 

Maybe you have a better ear than me, which wouldn't be hard since I'm half deaf from playing music excessively loud as a lad!

 

As said earlier, it's down the the RPM. 645 has a bigger bore too of course, but I'm too deaf to notice the difference. Turbo'ed 567, 645 and 710 all sound different to me though.