End of the DFDS liners?

[Garfield]

Heard on the grapevine this morning that the Ballina-Waterford DFDS liners will cease at the end of June.

[Railer]

It's kind of being going that way for a while. Almost never see a fully loaded CPW train. Will that mean the DFDS service moving back to Dublin Port competing with the IWT, can't see that happening myself.

The way IE is going they may well disconnect Waterford Yard by lifting the line at Waterford station if the DFDS flow ends.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Railer

[Noel]

Did the trains run from Ballina to Kildare and then down to Waterford?

 

[Railer]

7 minutes ago, Noel said:

Did the trains run from Ballina to Kildare and then down to Waterford?

Yes the DFDS and Timber trains run around in Kildare.

 

[dave182]

Without getting into politics, has the new man at IE, Jim Meade, given any indications or opinions relating to rail freight and its long term viability? 

If The Port of Waterford becomes disconnected from the network, it doesn't bode well for any future Foynes development.

What ever happened to the biomass power plant that was being built on the Asahi site outside Ballina? That was going to generate a fright flow at one stage.

[StevieB]

I assume Jim Meade is David Franks’ successor as CEO of IE. Where’s he from?

Stephen

[Garfield]

A quick update on this...

It looks like the liners will be finishing up earlier than expected - possibly as soon as next Monday/Tuesday. 

[Railer]

Wow, that escalated quickly. Looks like half the CPW fleet will be going back into storage along with the rest at Limerick. 

There's going to be a big loco surplus now with almost all the 071s finished overhaul and the 201s along with 225 making a come back this year.

[201bhoy]

Was there any reason the CPWs were used on the Waterford route in particular?  Will be sad to see them go if the rumours are true!

[Warbonnet]

5 hours ago, StevieB said:

I assume Jim Meade is David Franks’ successor as CEO of IE. Where’s he from?

Stephen

Internal promotion. Jim has worked up through the ranks and has been acting CEO for a while I believe. 

[Railer]

9 minutes ago, 201bhoy said:

Was there any reason the CPWs were used on the Waterford route in particular?  Will be sad to see them go if the rumours are true!

 

Think there were clearance issues on the line with 9'6 high cube containers placed on standard LP or LX flats so they use the CPWs.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Railer

[Railer]

I believe tomorrow morning will be the last time the CPWs depart Sally Park yard until/if a new freight flow from the port is set up. So long DFDS after its come back only a few years ago. Think they are going to be sorry they removed alot of siding space at Limerick in recent time as they are going to need space to store all the CPWs. Think one is dumped in Northwall yard, the oddball CPW 003 with the yellow handrails at each end.

[thewanderer]

It was officially announced by DFDS that their container train between Ballina and Waterford's Belview Port is to cease running from Tuesday 5th June 2018. The press releases stated today (29th May) is the last train, but a Waterford to Ballina is scheduled to operate on the 30th May and the final train from Ballina to Waterford on the 5th June 2018. 

The penultimate train from Ballina, the 1105 Ballina - Waterford is pictured crossing the Commons Bridge at Portarlington with 081 in charge of a fully loaded train.

Click the image bellow to see the full sized image.

[thewanderer]

Wednesday 30th May 2018:

The final update for May features the final Waterford to Ballina DFDS Liner at Kildare with 083 and at Hybla with 079. 079 took over from 083 at Kildare. The freight flow has ceased due to traffic levels on the route being too low for DFDS to sustain.

Click http://goo.gl/xAAb1p to see the pictures of the Liner plus the passenger traffic passing Kildare at this time.

[ttc0169]

Monday 28/05/2018,

081 hauls the DFDS CPW liner across the Moy bridge on the Ballina branch just south of Foxford station in which was the second last week of its operation.

 

[StevieB]

You have to wonder how hard IE management tried to retain the business, or were there too many EU obstacles in the way?The one size fits all approach can have serious drawbacks for small countries like Ireland, or am I being too political?

Stephen

[josefstadt]

The final Ballina-Waterford DFDS liner operated on Tuesday 5 June. The train was composed of 12 fully laden CPWs, hauled by 079. The photos below show it at Hybla bridge (OBC 96) between Monasterevan and Cherryville Junction and at Athy, where it was to cross the 14:50 Waterford-Heuston passenger.

[Railer]

Reports are that the 12 CPWs used for the DFDS flow are to be stored in either Waterford or Northwall yard as Limerick is full. There are 10 stored at Limerick and 2 at Northwall as it is.

Yesterday around 7 of the 12 from Waterford were moved to Inchicore works leaving 5 in Sallypark yard. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Railer

[201classfan]

Are the Container pocket wagons still used on the Dublin - Balina IWT? 

[ttc0169]

6 hours ago, 201classfan said:

Are the Container pocket wagons still used on the Dublin - Balina IWT? 

Yes

[Louth]

Track access charges for freight are in the lower graph. It looks like Ireland has the highest in Europe so is it any wonder that rail freight has declined.

[Mol_PMB]

18 minutes ago, Louth said:

Track access charges for freight are in the lower graph. It looks like Ireland has the highest in Europe so is it any wonder that rail freight has declined.

Interesting - thanks. Over ten times the average!

It's especially bad since these figures are per train-km, and Ireland's freight trains are much shorter than most in Europe. If it was done by wagon-km (which better represents the earning potential) then I would expect an even bigger differential.

I wonder what proportion of the total train operating costs the TACs are? To run a freight over a 200km route the IE TACs will be about EUR 5000. The loco's probably going to burn 200 gallons* of diesel at maybe EUR 4 per gallon so around EUR 800. The driver might earn a few hundred more for the trip. Harder to quantify are the maintenance and terminal costs, overheads etc. But it looks like the TAC might be the dominant factor at IE rates, whereas it would be a smaller percentage in other countries.

 

 

* rough estimate based on: https://heritagerail.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/EMD-TABLE-FUEL-CONS-NOTCH-HP-VARIOUS-MODELS.pdf

[Branchline121]

The review of last year suggested lowering the TACs so hopefully they’ll be reduced in the coming years, if not months. I sometimes wonder if a company from Europe like DB Cargo would be interested in operating here but I think the lack of freight flows and suitable locos/wagons probably turns them away. I wonder if they offered to buy the spare 201s would they be allowed? A 201 in DB traffic red would look dapper.

[Mol_PMB]

Other hurdles to overcome would be establishing a safety management system, operating license, negotiating paths and terminal facilities etc. None of this is impossible but expensive, time-consuming and could probably only be justified by a firm with considerable traffic to haul.
I wonder whether an organisation like the Port of Foynes would be permitted to start a rail freight arm?

Some of the GB rail freight operators started off small with second-hand locos, some purchased out of preservation and returned to main line traffic. 

If IE didn’t want to play ball with the 201s, I’d be looking at the 3 blue locos as the start of a fleet. Buy them, fix them, lease them back to NI for ballast trains and use them for freight the rest of the time. Do a deal with the RPSI to update their small GMs (new radios / signalling / whatever) in return for using them as standby locos

In fact a tie-up with the RPSI could go as far as operating their railtours too. Both sides of the border. 
 

Now I’m just dreaming…

[jhb171achill]

47 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Other hurdles to overcome would be establishing a safety management system, operating license, negotiating paths and terminal facilities etc. None of this is impossible but expensive, time-consuming and could probably only be justified by a firm with considerable traffic to haul.
I wonder whether an organisation like the Port of Foynes would be permitted to start a rail freight arm?

Some of the GB rail freight operators started off small with second-hand locos, some purchased out of preservation and returned to main line traffic. 

If IE didn’t want to play ball with the 201s, I’d be looking at the 3 blue locos as the start of a fleet. Buy them, fix them, lease them back to NI for ballast trains and use them for freight the rest of the time. Do a deal with the RPSI to update their small GMs (new radios / signalling / whatever) in return for using them as standby locos

In fact a tie-up with the RPSI could go as far as operating their railtours too. Both sides of the border. 
 

Now I’m just dreaming…

This, of course, raises yet again the question of who or what will operate anything on the Foynes line? There is not a single solitary clue of ANY traffic on this, beyond vague fantasy and theoretical ideas. I've said it before and i'll say it again; I strongly suspect this line "reopening" may end up being a great big Green Party white elephant. I very much hope to be proved completely wrong.

I'll just put the kettle on.........

[Westcorkrailway]

On 17/5/2025 at 4:31 PM, Mol_PMB said:

 

If IE didn’t want to play ball with the 201s, I’d be looking at the 3 blue locos as the start of a fleet. Buy them, fix them, lease them back to NI for ballast trains and use them for freight the rest of the time. Do a deal with the RPSI to update their small GMs (new radios / signalling / whatever) in return for using them as standby locos

Those 3 Blue locos are very broken. Not too long ago there was talks of IE buying the 3 and leasing them back to NIR as you proposed. But once the condition was actually seen the idea was dropped 

[Mayner]

On 18/5/2025 at 4:20 AM, jhb171achill said:

This, of course, raises yet again the question of who or what will operate anything on the Foynes line? There is not a single solitary clue of ANY traffic on this, beyond vague fantasy and theoretical ideas. I've said it before and i'll say it again; I strongly suspect this line "reopening" may end up being a great big Green Party white elephant. I very much hope to be proved completely wrong.

I'll just put the kettle on.........

Interestingly the Irish Rail Freight Plan https://www.irishrail.ie/Admin/getmedia/685e9919-f012-4018-879b-06618bb536af/IE_Rail-Freight-2040-Strategy_Public_Final_20210715.pdf speaks about a new Container (Shipping) Service planned for Foynes initially targeting 2-6% of the Irish container market with 'aspirations to offer an alternative (compete with) Dublin. Possibly Chinese Belt & Roads intiiative with direct service from the Far East bye-passing British Ports? 

With an Irish Government committing over €100m to a rail link to the Port a €56m contracted awarded to Sisk and IE recently entering a 10 year agreement to purchase 400 wagonn the IE Railfreight Plan doesn'nt appear to be a flash in the pan.

The regional Terminal proposals are consistent with current international best practice in particular operating rail terminals in industrial areas in colloboration with logistics business/road haulage operators makes perfect sense.  

Quite a change from 20 odd years ago when IE was forced to cancel an order for replacement container flats and bulk cement wagons because the Irish Government was unwilling to underwrite IE investment.

Ten years ago there ware vague proposals to establish an Inland rail served port at Ruakura near Hamilton, negotions with potential tenants and port companies remained confidential until after contracts were signed, in 10 yeaars the area has been transformed from farmland to a major road-rail hub with warehousing complexes operated by Logistics Companies, a National Retail chain and some manufacture, freight is imported and exported by rail, collected and distributed by road at a regional level. 

[Mol_PMB]

With regard to intermodal at Foynes, the Irish Rail Freight Plan is at odds with the Shannon Foynes Port Co. (SFPC) strategy (see link below and related thread).

SFPC see Foynes as a bulk commodities port and their strategy to 2041 does not include intermodal provision.

https://sfpc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/SFPC-MASTERPLAN-Final.pdf

 

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

With regard to intermodal at Foynes, the Irish Rail Freight Plan is at odds with the Shannon Foynes Port Co. (SFPC) strategy (see link below and related thread).

SFPC see Foynes as a bulk commodities port and their strategy to 2041 does not include intermodal provision.

https://sfpc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/SFPC-MASTERPLAN-Final.pdf

 

I was just about to comment how the Rail Freight 2040 plan dates from 2022, and there is no sign of any container service to Foynes emerging three years on with the exception of the special purpose flow of containerised contaminated soil from Roche Clarecastle to Germany for thermal treatment. 

Realistically we already have enough or even too many container ports in the south of the country, with Rosslare, Waterford and Cork all competing with Dublin for business. Cork has managed to corner the marked for deep sea services with services from South America(operated by Maersk, and with Bananas and other fruits as the base load) and North America(ICL). Interestingly, Cork also saw a call from ACL recently on their North Atlantic Express service. However, in all likelihood the next decade will see the closure of Tivoli with all container handling ops being focused on Ringaskiddy which is in the wrong place for a rail connection. Waterford obviously has a good set up from a Rail perspective, with dockside rail access, however it currently has a very limited service of only two intra-EU vessels calling a week, and sometimes even less than that in the winter. Ironically, it had a deep sea feeder service for the first time in a decade back in the early 2020s, but by the time XPO and Irish Rail had their liner service up and running, this service was closed by the opertors BG freight line. 

A white paper/alternate rail freight 2040 plan has been on my to do list for a good while now, but life doesn't allow the luxury of time for such things at the moment!

 

 

[jhb171achill]

So, bottom line, still nothing concrete!

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

So, bottom line, still nothing concrete!

Let's hope for at least a railtour - I need to colour that bit in!

When I was last in Limerick a few weeks ago, the Foynes line still wasn't connected at Limerick Check - there was a gap in the track and a fence across it.

 

[MOGUL]

21 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

So, bottom line, still nothing concrete!

There are a few prospects including Grain to Portlaoise(the Gain feeds traffic that ran from Foynes, NW and Waterford in the 90s/00s) and the woodchip that is imported from South America in this ugly old tub for burning in Edenderry. Another flow I have heard mentioned is the import of new rails for Irish Rail, but of course this already moves by rail from Belview to Portaloise, so hardly justifies the branch rebuild. 

[jhb171achill]

You'd think we could grow our own wood chip!!

[Mayner]

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

So, bottom line, still nothing concrete!

The rail reinstatement and the roading upgrades (Foynes-Rathkeale link road (dual carriageway) Rathkeale-Limerick upgrade to motorway standards) seems to be an EU Ten-T Regulatory requirement to upgrade Foynes to an EU "Core Corridor Port" https://sfpc.ie/limerick-to-foynes-road-networks/ . Basically an EU statutory requirement nothing to do with planned traffic flows.https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructure-and-investment/trans-european-transport-network-ten-t_en

Interestingly while Limerick-Shannon Port part funded the preliminary works (feasibility study-engineering design) and road improvements. the Irish Government appears to be fully funding the rail reinstatement works, so the Port haven't really any serious skin in the game if the rail link turns out to be a white elephant as JHB commented.

Interestingly there is a Ten-T requirement that the Foynes terminal should be capable of accommodating 740m freight trains, whatever about the rest of the IE network.

Going back to Wood Chips/Biomass probably cheaper to import from South America than Mill the wood chips in Ireland in a similar manner to former UK coal burning power stations importing wood chips (Sawmill waste) from Canada and rail it from Scotland to Yorkshire. Vaguely remember Cahirciveen power station burning locally grown biomass (larch?)about 50 years ago when converted from hand cut sod-peat to biomass. Very much a Gaeltacht make work scheme to reduce emigration/depopulation.