Modelling Irish Railways of 2020

[DJ Dangerous]

For those wishing to model Irish Railways as things stand in 2020, what RTR stock is out there?

What I can piece together, and am open to correction on, is the following:

MM InterCity livery 201's

MM Freight Grey livery 071's

MM NIR 112 and 8113

MM B141 as preserved

MM B134 as preserved

IRM spoil wagons

IRM Tara Mines Wagons

IRM 42' Container Liners with updated C-Rail containers

RPSI Cravens

RPSI Mk2A's

Any input would be appreciated, as I'm quite curious.

Thank you!

Edited August 14, 2020 by DJ Dangerous
Typo

[murphaph]

Bachmann Marks Models Auto ballasters would also be an option I think.

[iarnrod]

That is pretty much the whole list of what is available for the current scene. With the exception of the spoil wagons, all the rest are long sold out, so only available from either ebay or some of the model shows.

The Bachmann autoballasters were not totally prototypical for the Irish ones, but a good likeness, in fairness.

The MM 071 grey models are also not totally prototypical as they still have the cab handrails attached and the older type handbrake wheel. The black and silver 071's are only prototypical until the end of 2015 due to the older type handbrake wheel.

A new run of the current liveried 201's and an updated 071 Class model would be very welcome.

Majority of the flat wagons on the current liner trains are the 47' version, with only a small number of the 42' version used for this purpose.

Hopefully, the next batch of IRM announcements might have something for the current scene in it.

[DJ Dangerous]

So motive power and passenger stock are notably absent, more or less?

 

9 minutes ago, iarnrod said:

A new run of the current liveried 201's and an updated 071 Class model would be very welcome.

Majority of the flat wagons on the current liner trains are the 47' version, with only a small number of the 42' version used for this purpose.

Hopefully, the next batch of IRM announcements might have something for the current scene in it.

 

Yes, it would be nice to be able to pick up some of today's locos!

[leslie10646]

Compliments, DJ,

I had no idea that with the abundance of riches IRM and St Patrick had produced that you could only replicate the non-passenger side of IE.

Eoin won't like me saying this, but if back in the day Lima could produce a model of the standard South African Railways EMU, you would think that the Irish modelling market was worth a punt at a two car DART? Does nothing out of the Japanese market come close to the Japanese DARTS?

Obviously an ICR is overdue!

Now, back to 1950s .........

Edited August 14, 2020 by leslie10646

[iarnrod]

There are rumours that MM might be producing some current liveried 201's after the 121's have all been released, but I suspect that IRM are more likely the ones to produce çurrent day locos, units and rolling stock in the future.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, leslie10646 said:

Compliments, DJ,

I had no idea that with the abundance of riches IRM and St Patrick had produced that you could only replicate the non-passenger side of IE.

Eoin won't like me saying this, but if back in the day Lima could produce a model of the standard South African Railways EMU, you would think that the Irish modelling market was worth a punt at a two car DART? Does nothing out of the Japanese market come close to the Japanese DARTS?

Obviously an ICR is overdue!

Now, back to 1950s .........

I was lucky enough to pick up two IC 201's and a 231 repaint, but even those were scarce enough. At least I can run some Spoil and Tara Mines trains!

ICR's are definitely overdue to fill the passenger void!

[Noel]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

For those wishing to model Irish Railways as things stand in 2020, what RTR stock is out there?

What I can piece together, and am open to correction on, is the following:

MM InterCity livery 201's

MM Freight Grey livery 071's

MM NIR 112 and 8113

MM B141 as preserved

MM B134 as preserved

IRM spoil wagons

IRM Tara Mines Wagons

IRM 42' Container Liners with updated C-Rail containers

RPSI Cravens

RPSI Mk2A's

Any input would be appreciated, as I'm quite curious.

Thank you!

To add, Chris Dyer occasionally sells resprays of IR/IE Mk4 intercity livery coaches (green'n'grey). They are not prototypical CAFs rather BR mk4 resprays. There are also some folks who take commissions respraying BR Mk3 coaches into Belmond Hiberian livery (ex CIE Mk3). Silverfox supply various GSVs in CIE and IR/IE livery (ie dutch and BR Mk1 BSK) for use with RPSI coaches. As stated all that seems available retail right now are a few MM Green/Grey livery 201 locos, plus IRM Taras, 42fts, the rest seems long sold out, so ebay is where most of the above is sought. Chris Dyer also sells resprays of Bachmann 172 DMUs in 22k ICR livery, but prototypical they don't look anything like the Rotem 22k units (ie doors totally wrong layout, front profile, etc). Chris also sells Bachmann resprays of 2600/2700 class DMUs. Eoin Murray of this parish builds and sells excellent Dart sets. Thank merciful hour nobody has ever attempted to produce a luas model. 

 

https://www.chrisdyerfairs.co.uk/direct-sales

Edited August 14, 2020 by Noel

[iarnrod]

The top three items for anyone into the current scene has to be ICR's, current spec liveried 201's and current spec liveried 071's; none of which are readily available RTR at present, although IC liveried 201's were available previously, but at a time when there was possibly less Irish scene modellers than there are today, so a lot of modellers probably missed out on these.

After that, you have the various DMU and EMU classes.

We will have the weedspray wagons being released from IRM which certainly ran on the network until very recently.

[DJ Dangerous]

Yes, very true, Chris offers some wonderful repaints - I picked up a silver and black 231 from him through a misunderstanding, and am richer for it!

Do the ICR's run over the whole network, except for the Enterprise route?

[Warbonnet]

1 minute ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Yes, very true, Chris offers some wonderful repaints - I picked up a silver and black 231 from him through a misunderstanding, and am richer for it!

Do the ICR's run over the whole network, except for the Enterprise route?

They run across the IE network and have worked Enterprise trains previously on occasion. 

[hurricanemk1c]

ICRs have entire passenger network route clearance on IE, and both ways to Belfast

Weedspray tankers are also used on the Sperry as brake force, one wagon I noted on Wednesday had a spoil contaiber and a water tank

[DJ Dangerous]

Wow, so the ICR's would be ubiquitous enough for anybody modelling current day operations, no matter where on the island!

[hurricanemk1c]

They wouldn't be common Cork-Cobh/Midleton, Howth Jctn-Howth or Ballina-Manulla Jctn but theoretically yes!

[ttc0169]

Retro liveried locomotives 071 & 073 .

[Sleeper]

I often wondered why 073 got the IR livery and not 072

[ttc0169]

3 minutes ago, Sleeper said:

I often wondered why 073 got the IR livery and not 072

073 had been stopped after failing while working the IWT liner from Ballina and ended up being next in line for the body work overhaul and repaint,

It had been initially suggested to the IE CME that 088 would be receive the IR livery to compliment 071 e.g.first and last locomotives but the decision was left to the CME,

None of us minded so long as we got an 071 repainted into the IR livery.... and the rest is history......

[Sleeper]

Thanks for the info, nice to know. My days of wondering are over 

[jhb171achill]

Nobody seems to have noticed much that 2020 is the 75th year since CIE was formed......might it be too late to think of an ICR set in fully lined, snail-adorned, dark green with light green lining?

 

ttc - have a word!

[ttc0169]

2 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Nobody seems to have noticed much that 2020 is the 75th year since CIE was formed......might it be too late to think of an ICR set in fully lined, snail-adorned, dark green with light green lining?

 

ttc - have a word!

Not gonna happen jhb....more chance of getting a 2600 railcar into original Arrow livery and locomotive 234 repainted into its original as delivered livery....

[DJ Dangerous]

6 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

Not gonna happen jhb....more chance of getting a 2600 railcar into original Arrow livery and locomotive 234 repainted into its original as delivered livery....

How about having 234 painted in the "tippex" IE livery?

Now that would be simply stunning!

P.S.: Happy 75th anniversary, CIE.

[Noel]

13 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Nobody seems to have noticed much that 2020 is the 75th year since CIE was formed......might it be too late to think of an ICR set in fully lined, snail-adorned, dark green with light green lining?

 

ttc - have a word!

 The only livery suitable for an ICR 22k yo-yo seems a brown paper bag to cover it, so nobody ever has to see it. From a model railway running point of view the most uninteresting and boring yoke to operate.  Won't need points, no run arounds, no coupling necessary, back'n'forth mindlessly or roundie roundie like a hamster on a treadmill. Steam train sets still dominate the UK market despite most of the purchasers having never travelled on one, other than seeing them regularly on period TV & Film programmes. The Earl of Grantham might not have quite the same impact if arriving on a DMU sprinter at Downton Abbey as he would behind a 4-6-0 steam loco. Different horses for different courses I suppose, I get an unpleasant smell when I see a boring DMU or ICR yoyo. Now a re-run of MM grey 071s might be nice there was only 500 done originally of 7078 and 7071 (250 of each), now that most of the eighteen 43yo+ 071s in traffic today have that livery. CAF mk4 set might be nice with DVT, and MM might be able to rerun a small batch of green 201s, at least they are proper loco hauled real trains (ie engines pulling carriages). ICR toy only needs an oval of track and two batteries. JHB defender of the 3 link coupling and all good things 1950s green wash your mouth out.       The upcoming IRM A's could really benefit from IRM mk3 coaches in super train and/or tipped IR/IE livery with IRM's level of hyper detailing, given how fab Acurascales BR Mk5 sets look with the DVT.

[jhb171achill]

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

 The only livery suitable for an ICR 22k yo-yo seems a brown paper bag to cover it, so nobody ever has to see it. From a model railway running point of view the most uninteresting and boring yoke to operate.........

There’s another forum on which one of our regulars is Natalie Gardner, who will be known to many of us; the slightest mention of a “G” class, which our Nat has very considerable experience with in 12ins = 1ft scale, will always elicit this as an answer:

 

”” !

[DJ Dangerous]

Are MM's 112 and 8113 models reflective of how the real locos looks today?

Has 112 been abandoned and left to rust away?

[Railer]

112 still works the odd time and is as modeled except it's now 8112. 8113 has since got 112s style marker lights as has 111. 

112 is just on very bad condition externally. 111 was the last one to have major work on it completed.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Railer

[ttc0169]

5 hours ago, Railer said:

112 still works the odd time and is as modeled except it's now 8112. 8113 has since got 112s style marker lights as has 111. 

112 is just on very bad condition externally. 111 was the last one to have major work on it completed.

8112 was repainted earlier  this year at York road MPD 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

8112 was repainted earlier  this year at York road MPD 

 

 

There's a very strange one livery-wise.

The "NIR" logo was officially discontinued when the oval "crooked grape" Translink device came into being - as long ago as 1996!

Yet, it is still applied to the trio of NIR "111s".

Is there a reason? I know NIR is technically still a separate company and "Translink" is effectively just a trading name, but it's applied to ALL trains and buses and related signage and publicity......

[Robert Shrives]

I guess it is a nod to heritage liveries best not to ask too much as some happy soul less corporate image  munchkin might swing their mouse in frustration at continued good classic image in use and stamp their cloven hoof and demand new image...

Robert 

[minister_for_hardship]

17 hours ago, Noel said:

. Steam train sets still dominate the UK market despite most of the purchasers having never travelled on one, other than seeing them regularly on period TV & Film programmes. 

Given the number of preserved lines in the UK chances are the purchasers may well have travelled on one.

Flying Scotman and Mallard are household names over there. Are Maedhbh or Merlin household names here outside of the enthusiast fraternity? I wouldn't think so!

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

I guess it is a nod to heritage liveries best not to ask too much as some happy soul less corporate image  munchkin might swing their mouse in frustration at continued good classic image in use and stamp their cloven hoof and demand new image...

Robert 

Very probably - I know for a fact that this was EXACTLY what was behind the NIR genny van coach with its NIR logo well into “Translink” days - plus, of course, the better-known last loco turned out in full GNR blue livery in Dundalk, just after CIE took it over....

4 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

...........Flying Scotman and Mallard are household names over there. Are Maedhbh or Merlin household names here outside of the enthusiast fraternity? I wouldn't think so!

Sadly - yes, exactly!

[Mayner]

Most of the younger (perhaps under 60 ) members of this group appear to prefer the IE points era which many of the older generation thought the railways had gone to pot with fixed formation goods and passenger trains and the railway system at breaking point with de-railments and breakdowns.

A 2 car 2600/2800 set or DART or 3 Car IRC and an oval of track would be an excellent start for as a first serious train set for a pre-teen or teenager entering the hobby for the first time. Rail has a far higher profile with more people using the train as part of their day to day routine than in the past 50-60 years.

Having operated a Minories style exhibition layout I don't buy into the argument that DMUs are necessary boring to operate. Operating a busy city terminus with railcars kept 3 operators busy enough without the additional work involved in running round and shunting a loco hauled passenger train---------just like the real thing!

[DJ Dangerous]

6 hours ago, Mayner said:

Most of the younger (perhaps under 60 ) members of this group appear to prefer the IE points era which many of the older generation thought the railways had gone to pot with fixed formation goods and passenger trains and the railway system at breaking point with de-railments and breakdowns.

A 2 car 2600/2800 set or DART or 3 Car IRC and an oval of track would be an excellent start for as a first serious train set for a pre-teen or teenager entering the hobby for the first time. Rail has a far higher profile with more people using the train as part of their day to day routine than in the past 50-60 years.

Having operated a Minories style exhibition layout I don't buy into the argument that DMUs are necessary boring to operate. Operating a busy city terminus with railcars kept 3 operators busy enough without the additional work involved in running round and shunting a loco hauled passenger train---------just like the real thing!

Rail has a far higher profile... Is that a pun?

As an under-sixty, at least on paper, I'd agree that the IR to IE changeover seems to be the era that interests many enthusiasts of my age.

My thinking at the moment is that the nostalgia isn't fixed to a particular era, though. What seems new and uninteresting today will not necessarily seem so twenty or thirty years from now, hence my desire to be able to run a 2020 layout.

In twenty or thirty years time, Noel may be complaining about hydrogen powered flying DART's, and reminiscing on how lovely it was to have ICR's to marshall in a yard instead of floating around in the boring old sky.

Interesting to read what Iarnrod and Railer say about the 071's and the 111's - that even those models don't accurately reflect the operations of today due to changes that have occured.

Even if the grey 071's and the NIR 111's WEREN'T sold out and unavailable, it would be hard accurately model 2020.

[DoctorPan]

On 8/16/2020 at 7:16 AM, Robert Shrives said:

I guess it is a nod to heritage liveries best not to ask too much as some happy soul less corporate image  munchkin might swing their mouse in frustration at continued good classic image in use and stamp their cloven hoof and demand new image...

Robert 

I mean is it a heritage livery if the locos have not stopped carrying the livery? Like the return of 071 and 073 to heritage liveries was welcome as the rest of the fleet was in the slate grey livery.

[hexagon789]

11 hours ago, Mayner said:

Most of the younger (perhaps under 60 ) members of this group appear to prefer the IE points era which many of the older generation thought the railways had gone to pot with fixed formation goods and passenger trains and the railway system at breaking point with de-railments and breakdowns.

As someone considerably(!) younger than sixty, I feel I should perhaps make clear my exception to that "rule" and state that my primary period of interest is the 'Supertrain' era of approx late-1972 to 1987. This roughly coincides with my main period of interest in British Railways which is approximately the same.

[jhb171achill]

I remember reading in a model railway magazine in the 1970s a comment, possibly about the late Mike Sharman’s early GWR broad gauge modelling, which suggested that many enthusiasts seem drawn to a period around or just before or after when they were born.

Evidently there’s some psychological reason for that!

Whether true or not, it applies to me; my main area of interest is 1950-65. By the time I’m in my teens, my interest in anything new wanes, thus while 181s were items of interest, there’s something in my head which says 071s are just “too new”.

Similarly, I’d love to see the SLNCR Railcar “B” or an AEC or BUT set back in use, but a 70 or 80 class, or one of the ghastly 450s or Drogheda green things, zero interest. And yet, I’d be the first to say that the 80 class, especially, had one of the most important roles of ANY passenger tolling stock in Irish railway history, including bringing a drunk me home on Friday nights  in the late 70s.....

Senior was the same. His main interest was 1920s, and he was born in 1918.

Now, Noel will kill me for saying so, but I appreciate the gaudily-coloured plastic tubes that populate today’s railways for three reasons (only?!);

- They get you from A to B, like a bus.

- They will, whether we like it or not, attract people who are learning to talk and walk right now, to model railways, and railway interest in general; new volunteers in 20 years’ time for the RPSI, ITG, DCDR, the 3ft gauge lines, and the IRRS.

- Better a railcar railway, complete with weeds, overgrown hedgerows with no view, graffiti, security fences, graffiti, yellow lines, litter and graffiti-strewn concrete.....than NO railway.

Edited August 17, 2020 by jhb171achill