Customs & VAT

[BosKonay]

IOSS is the 'Import One Stop Shop\ a pan-european / EU arrangement allowing all businesses in the EU to collect VAT at the relevant NATIONAL rate, and remote all the returns as a blob to their local tax agency, who then sort it out amongst themselves. Previously you had to register for VAT in every EU state you hit the threshold in, now you can just register in Ireland, and collect and remit VAT for every EU state (customs across the EU probably have noticed our sales now charge ES TVA, or French IVA, etc)

[amdaley]

My Hattons package arrived today with the postman. Just regular international priority postage @ £5.

No communications from Irish Customs about it.

The customs declaration had a bar code  UY---------GB

This number & bar code was also on the postal label with a little IOSS in one corner.

I presume that this code gave customs all the information they needed.

[murphaph]

Hopefully a sign things are starting to bed in. 

[amdaley]

Hopefully but as other have said.

Some are stopped & some get through.

We'll see.

[Mayner]

An Post customs declaration and clearance process appears to be at least partially automated, An Post are responsible for customs clearance and collecting vat Customs only become involved when its deemed necessary to open a parcel to examine its contents. 

The system is likely to be set up to collect vat on a % of parcels rather than all parcels going through the system otherwise the whole system would grind to a standstill if An Post attempted to collect vat on every parcel.

I am having an interesting time at the moment trying to clear a shipment of kits through the An Post system. Apparently An Post were unable to read electronic customs declarations transmitted by NZ Post and  are either unable or unwilling to attempt to enter the data manually by reading the customs declaration on the labels. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Mayner

[DiveController]

may it would be legible if they turned it upside down or maybe there's a job for @jhb171achill in it? 

So the shipment from NZ is just stuck there? Oh JHC!

[Mayner]

4 hours ago, DiveController said:

may it would be legible if they turned it upside down or maybe there's a job for @jhb171achill in it? 

So the shipment from NZ is just stuck there? Oh JHC!

I think the chance of a postal worker looking for an individual parcel and reading the label in a modern mail center is pretty slim, the An Post parcel scanning and customs clearance system appears to be automated with minimal human intervention. Its possible the Universal Translator may not have been working when NZ Post transmitted the electronic custom declarations for the shipment to An Post at least a week before the shipment arrived in Ireland

Most of the Irish shipment of loco kits disappeared into the An Post system for 4 weeks before re-emerging in another mail center marked unable to deliver return to sender. Follow up with NZ Post found that An Post got an error message when they attempted to input the electronic customs declarations transmitted by NZ Post.

Fortunately most of the kits were delivered to our Irish customers late last week but one remains in limbo in the An Post system. I don't know whether the kits were delivered as a result of pressure from NZ Post or someone in An Post simply read the labels and put the parcels out for delivery rather than into a shipment to Dublin Airport.

I suspect the last parcel will remain in the system until they enough "returns" to make up a truck load to the Airport

We are getting lots of (written) assurances from NZ Post that this won't happen again, but we have alternative shipper if the problem re-occurs.

[irishmail]

 

An post at it again!   This time it is some crafting supplies that SWMBO ordered from England, the company are registered and charge the Irish VAT @ 23% on orders.  Like me with my Hatton's orders she had a text message and email from An post to pay customs charges,

she phoned the company she ordered from and advised her to pay it and email them the receipt and they would refund the cost, similar to what Hatton's do, she got the refund straight away, but now have to wait over a week now before An post decide to deliver the parcel.

[BosKonay]

If the parcel isnt extremity clearly labeled and containes the EORI and vat registration of the source then an post will nab it. 

[irishmail]

There seems to be no logic to it at all.   All of the parcels that I have received from Hatton's since the new Brexit rules came in have had the address label and customs label all filled out, which to me looks correct and gives the relevant information.    As I mentioned previously of the recent (July/August) orders I have had from Hatton's three were stopped for customs charges. Of these once I received the items there were no difference to how the labelling was done. Even our local post person could not understand it.  

I currently have two parcels on the way from Hatton's this week so will see what happens with them.    

[murphaph]

Look out for the little round IOSS logo on those Hattons parcels. It's printed on the label but it's pretty small. Maybe take a pic of it if it's there and post it up. The missus dumped the box before I could take a pic last time.

[BosKonay]

Should look like this

[amdaley]

Yea that's it.

[Billycan]

So, what exactly does the IOSS tell the carrier?

[murphaph]

I assume it should tell them that the retailer has availed of the EU's import one stop shop and has therefore already paid the VAT to one of the member states. But I honestly don't know if it's there for the carrier or customs or anybody. In different countries, the carrier is responsible for determining and collecting the VAT and in others (like here in Germany) there are customs officials working in the mails centres and they determine the VAT and duties due and put a sticker on the parcels. It's still a pretty new facility. I guess some officials are still not looking for it, though you'd imagine if it was important it would be much more visible?

[DiveController]

You'd think it would be a little bigger than Z scale....

[irishmail]

A week after paying the customs charges still no parcel!  An post are just using Brexit as an excuse to make money charging €3.50 for every parcel. Would not be surprised if there profits increase this year.  An post customer service is a complete waste of time they just fob you off with some feeble excuse.  Fourth parcel that has had this problem,  Will have to investigate taking this further. Just not good enough, they are quick to take your money but not  honouring their delivery agreement.

[murphaph]

I'm not defending the delays but the €3.50 charge is very much on the low side compared to other countries. It's €6 here and much much more in some places like Denmark.

From reading some Amazon (UK) seller forums it seems there's a lot of room for error when creating the shipping entities in the Royal Mail system. It can appear that everything is correct but the data has not been transmitted electronically to An Post (etc.) so the parcel gets stopped for customs.

[DiveController]

6 hours ago, irishmail said:

A week after paying the customs charges still no parcel!  An post are just using Brexit as an excuse to make money charging €3.50 for every parcel. Would not be surprised if there profits increase this year.  An post customer service is a complete waste of time they just fob you off with some feeble excuse.  Fourth parcel that has had this problem,  Will have to investigate taking this further. Just not good enough, they are quick to take your money but not  honouring their delivery agreement.

This is the world as it is now, empowerment of the gombeen without culpability or recourse. Revolutions have occurred for less 

[Blaine]

On 17/9/2021 at 3:38 PM, irishmail said:

A week after paying the customs charges still no parcel!  An post are just using Brexit as an excuse to make money charging €3.50 for every parcel. Would not be surprised if there profits increase this year.  An post customer service is a complete waste of time they just fob you off with some feeble excuse.  Fourth parcel that has had this problem,  Will have to investigate taking this further. Just not good enough, they are quick to take your money but not  honouring their delivery agreement.

Avoid postman padraig completely - use/ask for a courier instead. Parcel2go are good if the sender cant/wont do it

[Noel]

Fortunately the A classes winging their way as we speak to Irish customers are coming from an Irish Company in the EU so we should have no worries about customs charges or brexitistan delays.

[skinner75]

On a slight tangent, but still regarding delivery charges, we had an incident with a crucial server and needed parts asap. We were given the option of getting the parts from London, as none were in Ireland. The option was there to have a guy pick up the parts, hop on a plane across, then taxi to site - eliminating any customs delays. The cost? 3 grand!! 

Turns out the parts weren't that critical in the end 

There'll be 'model mules' soon!  

"Did you pack your suitcase yourself sir?"

[Broithe]

I am already on record predicting that the Criminal Assets Bureau will be targeting stashes of black and green boxes.

I understand that they have specially trained dogs to detect such high-value contraband items.

[irishmail]

36 minutes ago, Blaine said:

Avoid postman padraig completely - use/ask for a courier instead. Parcel2go are good if the sender cant/wont do it

You could well be right there, especially having just read all the recent complaints about an post on their facebook page and trust pilot reviews.

https://www.facebook.com/AnPost

https://ie.trustpilot.com/review/www.anpost.ie

A parcel that I paid the VAT & charges on is now going to be sent back to the sender apparently!!    

"Quote from the live chat with anpost customer service this morning.

Gerard 10:36
This item was scanned as send for delivery on the 10th however it was then =scanned to be processed for return to
sender on the 16th, I would advise that you contact the Ecomm team on ecommchargequery@anpost.com and
they will be able to clarify what is happening with this item.

Have emailed this Ecomm team but so far no reply.  
 

[murphaph]

An Post appear very quick to just send stuff back to sender. That's not good enough at all for a postal service where the recipient is actually known and all that needs to be established is the value. That really only happens here if they attempt a delivery and I am not at home and don't bother going to pick it up. Even if a parcel arrives in to Germany with zero paperwork, it will not be sent back. They will divert the parcel to the recipient's local customs office and send the recipient a letter informing them of this fact. The recipient then goes to the customs office with some proof of the value and opens the parcel in front of a local customs officer who gives you the total due if anything.

An Post need a fallback for incorrect or missing paperwork that doesn't include shipping the parcel back to the sender.

[amdaley]

Its total hit & miss with them especially when it ends up in the black hole that is the Dublin Mails Centre 

I have a registered package coming through at the moment & it looks like its playing a round the houses game.

How many times does a package have to go through there before its eventually free ?

My package arrived there on Friday & its already been sorted twice.

Maybe Broithes tracker dog is on holidays  

 

[amdaley]

1 hour ago, Blaine said:

Avoid postman padraig completely - use/ask for a courier instead. Parcel2go are good if the sender cant/wont do it

Doesn't always work that way.

I had two large boxes of cat litter coming from Amazon through DPD because of the weight. Both got stuck in the DPD depot in Athlone.

The first one went from DPD to the Customs Office three times before it was released. It took so long that I had already received a refund from Amazon because they thought the box was lost. I received it about two weeks later, plastered with "Released from Customs" stickers. The second box came through in about a week with no stickers. Perhaps they had learned from the first incident ?

The Mrs & I have never had an Amazon package not turn up when sent through An Post. Maybe we're just lucky.

[declan64]

I use the trunk feature Hattons provide and only get a shipment every couple of months. This tends to mean that a courier is required to deliver and I haven't had any issues (touch wood). I find the combination of the trunk and prepaid VAT from Hattons a god send to help manage costs. I cancelled an order with Olivias Trains recently as they were charging a surcharge of £10 for excluding the VAT on my order and £20 for a courier who would likely hit me for a another £20 to handle the VAT. Hornby are Irish VAT registered now but a rip off price wise. EBay is a washout of course for UK purchases or sales. Brexit has been painful for sure!

[amdaley]

2 hours ago, declan64 said:

I use the trunk feature Hattons provide and only get a shipment every couple of months. This tends to mean that a courier is required to deliver and I haven't had any issues (touch wood). I find the combination of the trunk and prepaid VAT from Hattons a god send to help manage costs. I cancelled an order with Olivias Trains recently as they were charging a surcharge of £10 for excluding the VAT on my order and £20 for a courier who would likely hit me for a another £20 to handle the VAT. Hornby are Irish VAT registered now but a rip off price wise. EBay is a washout of course for UK purchases or sales. Brexit has been painful for sure!

Trust Olivias to try something

[Ironroad]

58 minutes ago, amdaley said:

Trust Olivias to try something

Olivia's always charged a fee for not charging VAT, which is why I as a US based customer have never and will not do business with them.

[amdaley]

57 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Olivia's always charged a fee for not charging VAT, which is why I as a US based customer have never and will not do business with them.

Only ever dealt with them once & never again 

[irishmail]

14 hours ago, amdaley said:

Its total hit & miss with them especially when it ends up in the black hole that is the Dublin Mails Centre 

I have a registered package coming through at the moment & it looks like its playing a round the houses game.

How many times does a package have to go through there before its eventually free ?

My package arrived there on Friday & its already been sorted twice.

Maybe Broithes tracker dog is on holidays  

 

I have a similar situation, a registered packet was received and sorted in Dublin mails centre yesterday, and this morning it still sits!  Was expecting an update so see it in local office for delivery. Oh well another day then!!   

Maybe the Dubs have a thing about sending items to Mayo.     

[amdaley]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

I have a similar situation, a registered packet was received and sorted in Dublin mails centre yesterday, and this morning it still sits!  Was expecting an update so see it in local office for delivery. Oh well another day then!!   

Maybe the Dubs have a thing about sending items to Mayo.     

A thing about sending stuff anywhere more like

[irishmail]

Update

Had one of two parcels from Hatton's delivered this morning (both shipped at same time).   Still no response from Ecomm about the other parcel (for SHMBO) which Anpost have decided to send back to sender, Who told them to as we certainly did not?

Chatting to our postie this morning, apparently  the latest thing is Anpost/customs will not release or dispatch any parcels until the VAT/Custom's charges have been paid on the whole batch or consignment. , seems that they are getting in a right mess with it and maybe why some items are being set back despite the VAT/charges being paid!

Why can they just not send the parcel out once you have paid.   

Quote from the receipt of the VAT we paid on 10th September.   "We will now deliver your item to the below address:"   

Edited September 21, 2021 by irishmail

[Mayner]

I was recently in contact with Customs and received some useful feedback from An Post in response to problems we experienced shipping goods to Ireland

Customs were very helpful and clearly explained the roles and responsibilities to the two organisations, in contrast getting an explanation for the delays from An Post was like pulling teeth. An Post initially providing stock answers that there was a problem with the declarations but failing to provide specific details when requested.

Customs explained that An Post is responsible for entering customs data and collecting vat and duties due on behalf of the Revenue, but also responsible for contacting the sender or person receiving the package to make any necessary amendments if there is a problem with the electronic customs declaration transmitted by the sending postal authority to An Post.

Customs only become involved when its necessary to open a parcel for examination, presumably when the Customs dogs sniff something suspicious or something on the declaration is flagged.

Parcels are cleared by inputting the electronic customs declaration into the Irish Customs system rather than a person reading or a robot scanning the label on the box.

Feedback from An Post indicates that the An Post/Irish Customs IT system is very sensitive and that An Post staff are unable/not allowed to correct or amend a defective declaration.

Interestingly while there is an EU requirement to enter TARIC codes in a 10 digit format, 8 digit codes are displayed on the EU TARIC Information site.

Going back to the DTDP and IOSS, it may be cheaper for an Irish customer to purchase from an overseas supplier that is not a member of the IOSS (under €150) or offer a DTDP (over €150) service and pay the VAT and An Post fee on delivery.

As Dive Controller alluded to there are hidden costs to these schemes, an overseas retailer has to appoint an Irish or EU customs agent or intermediary as a middle man to send monthly returns to the Irish Customs despite being registered for Irish Vat and paying vat direct to the revenue the same as an Irish based business, there are considerable hidden costs providing a DTDP (Delivery Tax and Duty Paid) which make it only viable for large high value shipments to Ireland.