British locos and stock that can be disguised as Irish

[skinner75]

'New' trains for Iran some years ago, or a 'look what we are doing for the country' type thing, where they just used a shot of our very own 181!

[Ironroad]

Maybe this will help

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/iran-on-track-with-help-of-irish-rail/26542633.html

[LNERW1]

26 minutes ago, Broithe said:

It's from back when Mahmoud Ahmedinajad accidentally ticked the next box under 'Iran' when he posted his application to be President.

Ohhhhhh... ok

[LNERW1]

On 12/2/2024 at 11:35 AM, LNERW1 said:

This is either going to be met with begrudging agreement or crucifixion, but could a class 67/68 be repainted to a rough approximation of a 201?

Edit: I meant 65 or 67, not 68. The 68s are those weird looking ones with the melted-looking front end operated by DRS and TPE.

[David Holman]

On 12/2/2024 at 3:09 PM, Moxy said:

 

Yes, Angel Trains have sold some former British HST's to Mexico.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/more-british-high-speed-trains-head-to-mexico/

Some have also gone to Nigeria.

[Mayner]

One might have been are the Blue Pullman trains.

CIE are supposed to have seriously considered buying and re-gauging the Blue Pullmans during the late 60s/early 70s. 

[BSGSV]

4 hours ago, Mayner said:

One might have been are the Blue Pullman trains.

CIE are supposed to have seriously considered buying and re-gauging the Blue Pullmans during the late 60s/early 70s. 

That's a new one on me, but of a piece with other schemes that seem to have been floated in the mid-1970's. Aside from Blue Pullmans, CIE looked at re-engining the Sulzers, and I was also told by someone who would know that they looked at buying redundant Westerns from BR. I'm sure the new 071's they did go for would have seemed quite pricy given the times, but haven't they got their money's worth out of them since!

[LNERW1]

Get the cross ready lads- heavily bodged+shortened BR Class 58 as an 071? (he says while writing up his will)

You know what, just to avoid extreme violence, I’m going to make that work.

[jhb171achill]

On 14/2/2024 at 1:46 PM, BSGSV said:

That's a new one on me, but of a piece with other schemes that seem to have been floated in the mid-1970's. Aside from Blue Pullmans, CIE looked at re-engining the Sulzers, and I was also told by someone who would know that they looked at buying redundant Westerns from BR. I'm sure the new 071's they did go for would have seemed quite pricy given the times, but haven't they got their money's worth out of them since!

Yes, the one about re-engineing the B101s was very much true. As you say, they got superb use out of the 071s - but imagine if 071-type engines had gone into the Sulzers - would they still be seen in Ballina at the front of a train of containers?

[Horsetan]

9 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, the one about re-engineing the B101s was very much true. As you say, they got superb use out of the 071s - but imagine if 071-type engines had gone into the Sulzers - would they still be seen in Ballina at the front of a train of containers?

They might only have lasted up until the 1990s before being withdrawn, just as the As and Cs were at that time.

[jhb171achill]

5 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

They might only have lasted up until the 1990s before being withdrawn, just as the As and Cs were at that time.

Indeed - which begs the question what then - more 201s, probably.............. which would simply mean that today that whole fleet would be in use, and Ireland would have but a solitary class of locomotive. Things are unvaried enough as it is!, so thank gawd for 071s (never thought I'd say that about modern locos...!)

[LNERW1]

As nobody seems to be particularly invested in the tangent, let me just bring the conversation back to its initial focus as well as just bringing it back up to the surface so it’s not forgotten.

[Flying Snail]

'Modelling Irish Railways' by Stephen Johnson and Alan O'Rourke is a great starting point for those interested in modifying British outline models to represent Irish stock.

It's from 2004, so a bit dated now but back then there was practically no Irish RTR  -  the Irish scene was all about scratch building, kits and modifying other models. They give a list of convertible OO locos and an extensive list of carriage conversions too.

Edited Tuesday at 21:29 by Flying Snail

[jhb171achill]

In the 1940s, when a small Austrian man with a narrow moustache, of non-"Aryan" physique, decide to drop bombs on Belfast, the carriage sidings of the NCC were obliterated, and dozens of coaches and wagons were reduced to splinters and atoms.

As a result, the (parent) LMS in Brexitstan shipped in a lot of old 1920s wooden-bodied coaches, and some wagons - both, obviously, of standard LMS / Midland Rly designs. Thus, straight repaints of several types of LMS coaches will instantly fit on an NCC / UTA / very early NIR layout as loco-hauled stock. Wagons likewise; in Tony McGartland's (truly excellent) book on the railway in Omagh, a standard LMS goods van is shown in Omagh - having deeply penetrated GNR "Derry Road" land, well away from the NCC! (Left hand side, partially seen, p67). Another is seen in the same book of standard (English) Midland design, bottom of page 91, left. A similar vehicle again in the middle of a rake, p99.

The Bachmann "CIE" set some years ago, with a "Woolwich" and three coaches in 1945-55 CIE lined dark green, are in fact LMS types. While they do not remotely resemble anything that ever ran on CIE (and more than almost all British wagons do), they are perfect for some of the types used on the NCC / UTA, with a handful lasting a few years into NIR days, even appearing behind a Hunslet on a handful of Portrush excusrions.

Very often, if there's a mix of scale irish coach models (e.g. SSM kits) on a layout, they stand out amongst repainted British stuff, as the latter is noticeably narrower. It looks odd, but there's a prototype for everything; in reality this was the case.

Look at how narrow the RPSI's BR van looks beside its Cravens. It was even more so in the north 1945-70, in the circumstances mentioned above.

The coaching stock of the NCC in its last few years, and the UTA's ex-NCC section throughout the existence of the UTA, and the last loco-hauled trains of NIR until the early 1970s, had a mixture of the following:

1.   Belfast built coaches to LMS NCC design

2.  The last few BNCR stock, recognisable by their flat sides

3.  British-built stock, brought over and re-gauged in the 1940s to replace bomb-damaged stock, to standard LMS desings - but noticeably narrower!

After 1958, add to this ex-GNR stock. And - the GNR had a very small amount of coaches that were second hand ex-British stuff too - LNWR, I think from memory.

The point here, though, in relation to British stuff which is usable here, is that a number of LMS designs can be used as NCC stock in the latter yerars of this company; repaint plain maroon (unlikely to have had lining, as secondary stock), or get LMS liveried ones and remove LMS crest and "LMS" lettering. For UTA, plain green, centre line of beige (not yellow) edged in red, and UTA crest; and a handful made it into NIR plain maroon, grey roof, black ends, with a 3" pale grey waistline. Mix and match with Worsely or SSM kits and Robert is a sibling to one of your parents.

Now, where's this IRM RTR Jeep?

[Horsetan]

19 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

In the 1940s, when a small Austrian man with a narrow moustache, of non-"Aryan" physique....

Y'know, going off-topic here, I've often thought that historians covering the whole 1933-1945 thing might have missed a subtlety.

In 1938, we all learnt that Anschluss generally meant Germany merging with and absorbing Austria. Given the way that the small Austrian fella had climbed to power over the German population, I've long wondered if Anschluss was actually Austria cementing its power over Germany, especially when you consider that Austrians have tended to have that streak of nastiness that even Germans find unsettling.

[Broithe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Horsetan said:

Y'know, going off-topic here, I've often thought that historians covering the whole 1933-1945 thing might have missed a subtlety.

In 1938, we all learnt that Anschluss generally meant Germany merging with and absorbing Austria. Given the way that the small Austrian fella had climbed to power over the German population, I've long wondered if Anschluss was actually Austria cementing its power over Germany, especially when you consider that Austrians have tended to have that streak of nastiness that even Germans find unsettling.

Must say I’ve always seen the Austrians in a positive light - but like many a neighbour, they and the Germans don’t always have a high opinion of each other….

[LNERW1]

On 13/6/2024 at 2:21 PM, jhb171achill said:

In the 1940s, when a small Austrian man with a narrow moustache, of non-"Aryan" physique, decide to drop bombs on Belfast, the carriage sidings of the NCC were obliterated, and dozens of coaches and wagons were reduced to splinters and atoms.

As a result, the (parent) LMS in Brexitstan shipped in a lot of old 1920s wooden-bodied coaches, and some wagons - both, obviously, of standard LMS / Midland Rly designs. Thus, straight repaints of several types of LMS coaches will instantly fit on an NCC / UTA / very early NIR layout as loco-hauled stock. Wagons likewise; in Tony McGartland's (truly excellent) book on the railway in Omagh, a standard LMS goods van is shown in Omagh - having deeply penetrated GNR "Derry Road" land, well away from the NCC! (Left hand side, partially seen, p67). Another is seen in the same book of standard (English) Midland design, bottom of page 91, left. A similar vehicle again in the middle of a rake, p99.

The Bachmann "CIE" set some years ago, with a "Woolwich" and three coaches in 1945-55 CIE lined dark green, are in fact LMS types. While they do not remotely resemble anything that ever ran on CIE (and more than almost all British wagons do), they are perfect for some of the types used on the NCC / UTA, with a handful lasting a few years into NIR days, even appearing behind a Hunslet on a handful of Portrush excusrions.

Very often, if there's a mix of scale irish coach models (e.g. SSM kits) on a layout, they stand out amongst repainted British stuff, as the latter is noticeably narrower. It looks odd, but there's a prototype for everything; in reality this was the case.

Look at how narrow the RPSI's BR van looks beside its Cravens. It was even more so in the north 1945-70, in the circumstances mentioned above.

The coaching stock of the NCC in its last few years, and the UTA's ex-NCC section throughout the existence of the UTA, and the last loco-hauled trains of NIR until the early 1970s, had a mixture of the following:

1.   Belfast built coaches to LMS NCC design

2.  The last few BNCR stock, recognisable by their flat sides

3.  British-built stock, brought over and re-gauged in the 1940s to replace bomb-damaged stock, to standard LMS desings - but noticeably narrower!

After 1958, add to this ex-GNR stock. And - the GNR had a very small amount of coaches that were second hand ex-British stuff too - LNWR, I think from memory.

The point here, though, in relation to British stuff which is usable here, is that a number of LMS designs can be used as NCC stock in the latter yerars of this company; repaint plain maroon (unlikely to have had lining, as secondary stock), or get LMS liveried ones and remove LMS crest and "LMS" lettering. For UTA, plain green, centre line of beige (not yellow) edged in red, and UTA crest; and a handful made it into NIR plain maroon, grey roof, black ends, with a 3" pale grey waistline. Mix and match with Worsely or SSM kits and Robert is a sibling to one of your parents.

Now, where's this IRM RTR Jeep?

JHB, you are an encyclopaedia. Thank you.

[LNERW1]

Ok, lads, here's a new one that I definitely didn't steal from the thread on Casino Model Railway Museum, a Class 165 'Turbo' as a 29000. Doesn't look perfect, but it works. IMO a 170 might work better though. This obviously doesn't take into account carriage lengths, so I'll leave that to the smart people on here.