Irish Royalty - Park Royal Coach Next For IRM

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I did later have a better chat with AS and got a detailed verbal update on the IRM models, which sounded very promising. 
Probably best if I leave it to the IRM staff to post an official update here. For the Park Royals relevant to this thread I understand there have been considerable frustrations with the factories in China that have been totally outside IRM’s control and have caused delays, but things are now sorted for quality and delivery is expected around the end of this year. 
 

Thanks! 

Thanks, Mol_IRM…

[DJ Dangerous]

Accurascale / IRM Projects page was updated this week.

Park Royals now say "Update Coming, 2025".

[Mol_PMB]

6 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Accurascale / IRM Projects page was updated this week.

Park Royals now say "Update Coming, 2025".

Hence why I asked for a verbal update at Derby - see previous post. 
I was also told that they will have a lot more Irish samples/models to see at the Dublin show, but there might be a bit of a wait until the next IRM new tooling announcement.
I think the AS side of the business is very busy at present - must be all these people buying badgers

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Hence why I asked for a verbal update at Derby - see previous post. 
I was also told that they will have a lot more Irish samples/models to see at the Dublin show, but there might be a bit of a wait until the next IRM new tooling announcement.
I think the AS side of the business is very busy at present - must be all these people buying badgers

Prior to the change this Tuesday, both 66’s and Park Royals just said “Q2 2025”, so there’s definitely some news in the pipeline.

Interesting that the 22000’s (Q3 2025), Hunslets (Q4 2025), and 800’s (Q3 2026)  haven’t changed status on the Projects page!

 

 

[exciecoachbuilder]

13 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Accurascale / IRM Projects page was updated this week.

Park Royals now say "Update Coming, 2025".

I hope so? It's been a long wait

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, exciecoachbuilder said:

I hope so? It's been a long wait

 

[Edo]

I maybe completely wrong ....................but going through the outstanding order on my IRM/Accurascale Account - I have noticed that the new payment date for my Park Royal Order is now Mid Jan 2026...........

by the same token - I am now being asked to pay my outstanding balance on the 22000s................

Could be just arbitary dates for payment generated when the orders were placed..............

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, Edo said:

I maybe completely wrong ....................but going through the outstanding order on my IRM/Accurascale Account - I have noticed that the new payment date for my Park Royal Order is now Mid Jan 2026...........

by the same token - I am now being asked to pay my outstanding balance on the 22000s................

Could be just arbitary dates for payment generated when the orders were placed..............

I’d say that the payment dates reflect the estimated arrival dates that were updated on the 12th.

22000’s may be soon, Hell yeah!!!

Park Royal estimated date was removed, so early next year sounds plausible.

[Mol_PMB]

I would very much like to see more decorated samples in the two green livery variants. 
We’ve only seen one of the green liveries so far, and I gather that the colour has been tweaked since then. 
 

[BosKonay]

19 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I would very much like to see more decorated samples in the two green livery variants. 
We’ve only seen one of the green liveries so far, and I gather that the colour has been tweaked since then. 
 

Exactly that. The final samples are getting photographed now. 

[Mol_PMB]

30 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

Exactly that. The final samples are getting photographed now. 

Wonderful - thank you!

[Mol_PMB]

Just to keep the suspense going, here's another crop of a nice prototype pic showing two variants of green livery on Park Royals; the pic is dated 1961.

At the front of the train, a light green carriage - including green-painted sliding window ventilators, EdN waist line and post-1956 '2' class designations on the doors. Black ends with red dimension plates. Broadly this matches the decorated sample we've seen already - light green, black ends, painted window ventilators. The class designations should be easy enough to add with transfers.

Fourth in the train, a darker green Park Royal - with sliding window ventilators in unpainted aluminium, catching the sunlight here. EdN waist line; originally this livery did not have '2' class designations on the doors. Green ends are hard to make out in this photo but are well proven in other photos of the dark green livery (see below).

We had one of Ernie's photos upthread showing the original darker green livery when new in 1956. Below is another of Ernie's dated 1959 showing the dark green livery like the 4th vehicle in the train above. No '2' on the doors, unpainted window vents, green ends. By this time the silver underframe was looking very grimy!

The next instalment of my AEC Railcar Trailers thread will include the Park Royals so here's another of Ernie's pics showing the dark green livery, almost as original but with the '2' class designations added:

Waiting with baited breath to see the IRM painted samples, and wondering whether I need to order some more, or possibly change one of my existing orders...

 

 

[DJ Dangerous]

I wonder if the Park Royal release will be pushed back a bit to coincide with a small re-run of these.

 

 

[ttc0169]

11 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I wonder if the Park Royal release will be pushed back a bit to coincide with a small re-run of these.

 

 

That would be great DJ-but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that prospect….

[DJ Dangerous]

5 minutes ago, ttc0169 said:

That would be great DJ-but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that prospect….

Trying to figure out whether it would be great cross-merchandising, or too much for stretched wallets to take.

[Mol_PMB]

11 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Trying to figure out whether it would be great cross-merchandising, or too much for stretched wallets to take.

The A class are not too hard to pick up secondhand at present, with a bit of patience. 

Considering that the Park Royals are nominally suburban coaches, they would go much better with one of these...

Or some of these...

(photos linked from Flickr, by Jonathan Allen and Ernie)

[DJ Dangerous]

11 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

The A class are not too hard to pick up secondhand at present, with a bit of patience. 

Considering that the Park Royals are nominally suburban coaches, they would go much better with one of these...

 

Or some of these...

 

I’ve only seen a handful of second-hand A Classes for sale, maybe five or ten over the past year or two. @Fowler4f had several for sale on eBay at one stage, bulking up those figures.

Unless A/S have new tools ready for the C Class or AEC, we’d be in for a long long wait.

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I’ve only seen a handful of second-hand A Classes for sale, maybe five or ten over the past year or two. @Fowler4f had several for sale on eBay at one stage, bulking up those figures.

Unless A/S have new tools ready for the C Class or AEC, we’d be in for a long long wait.

I've bought 3 in the past year from various sources secondhand, and I'm not looking for any more - if I was I could have bought any livery of my choice over that period (though not perhaps all options of running number).

There are 3 on ebay at the moment, including green and silver liveries. Rails of Sheffield had a batch of a dozen or so about 6 months ago, all liveries, but all now sold. Ellis Clark have them occasionally. Stoby has sold a few on here too.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

10 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I've bought 3 in the past year from various sources secondhand, and I'm not looking for any more - if I was I could have bought any livery of my choice over that period (though not perhaps all options of running number).

There are 3 on ebay at the moment, including green and silver liveries. Rails of Sheffield had a batch of a dozen or so about 6 months ago, all liveries, but all now sold. Ellis Clark have them occasionally. Stoby has sold a few on here too.

 

Must be UK-only eBay listings as almost none have shown up for me. I can only see UK-only listings using the url, and can only buy using a UK address.

So you say there’s no demand for more A Class locos, that’s a shame. An A Class re-run could be announced tomorrow with the locos already in stock, and we’d be none the wiser.

Probably at least three or four years before having a C Class on sale, and delaying the Park Royals that long wouldn’t make sense.

[Galteemore]

28 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Must be UK-only eBay listings as almost none have shown up for me. I can only see UK-only listings using the url, and can only buy using a UK address.

So you say there’s no demand for more A Class locos, that’s a shame. An A Class re-run could be announced tomorrow with the locos already in stock, and we’d be none the wiser.

Probably at least three or four years before having a C Class on sale, and delaying the Park Royals that long wouldn’t make sense.

Ideal opportunity for a skilled 3d print tech to come up

with a C class body for a proprietary chassis  @Past-Avenue?? @Killian Keane??

Edited Tuesday at 12:42 by Galteemore

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Must be UK-only eBay listings as almost none have shown up for me. I can only see UK-only listings using the url, and can only buy using a UK address.

So you say there’s no demand for more A Class locos, that’s a shame. An A Class re-run could be announced tomorrow with the locos already in stock, and we’d be none the wiser.

Probably at least three or four years before having a C Class on sale, and delaying the Park Royals that long wouldn’t make sense.

I wouldn't say there's no demand, the secondhand ones that come up for sale do sell, but it takes a while. They often hang around for a few weeks or more, so it's not as if people are rushing to buy them. Prices tend to be broadly comparable with original sale price so they're not bargain bin material, nor are they raising R@RE! collectable prices. I guess most Irish modellers bought enough for their needs when they first came out, and the number of people getting in to Irish modelling (like myself) is roughly balanced by the people selling off their collections. 

My understanding is that the sales of Hunslets and Queens have been good, perhaps as a result of cross-promotion from the Accurascale brand, so perhaps when those arrive we will see a surge in modellers looking to build an Irish collection or layout.

For the new entrant to Irish modelling, one of the challenges is that at any one time, the availability of IRM locos and rolling stock doesn't provide a prototypical train. For example, IRM currently have Hunslets and Queens on pre-order, but the only IRM coaching stock available is Park Royals which don't suit either of those locos*. The range of wagons presently available is only marginally suitable for either loco type and there's no brake van (freight or passenger) to complete the trains. So you need to have patience or to scour the secondhand market, or to broaden your horizons to the smaller manufacturers and cottage-industry kits. Nothing wrong with that but it raises the bar to new entrants to Irish modelling and perhaps discourages purchases of the flagship locos?

It will be interesting to see how the re-run of the cement bubbles sells. These were some of the most iconic Irish freight wagons and had become hard to find secondhand (but not impossible - I've picked up 3 sets of 3 over the past year at prices comparable to new ones). They might be a good weathervane to see if the trade winds are favourable for an A-class re-run. 

 

* Potentially there was a very short time-overlap of Queens and Park Royals. And if you throw away the body, you can prototypically couple the triangulated underframe of a Park Royal behind a Hunslet as an NIR PW flat. These are very niche applications, but my OCD feels the need to mention them. 

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Ideal opportunity for a skilled 3d print tech to come up

with a C class body for a proprietary chassis  @Past-Avenue??

You've got to be significantly better than the existing product from Silver Fox or there's not much point. There are certainly areas for improvement in shape, reliability, robustness and livery.

The desired standard for new locos these days (lights, sound, reliable mechanism, simple DCC interface etc) requires a lot more development and skill than just getting the bodyshell shape and details right (which previous C class models have mostly failed on). And a lot more investment up front before you get to a production run of saleable quality. IRM have said a C class will happen eventually, I'm willing to wait but will keep encouraging them along the way.

 

[Galteemore]

5 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

You've got to be significantly better than the existing product from Silver Fox or there's not much point. There are certainly areas for improvement in shape, reliability, robustness and livery.

The desired standard for new locos these days (lights, sound, reliable mechanism, simple DCC interface etc) requires a lot more development and skill than just getting the bodyshell shape and details right (which previous C class models have mostly failed on). And a lot more investment up front before you get to a production run of saleable quality. IRM have said a C class will happen eventually, I'm willing to wait but will keep encouraging them along the way.

 

Thanks @Mol_PMB - quite agree. I’m just coming at it from the perspective of a scratchbuilder and someone conscious of his own mortality An IRM C class could be 5 years off….

Edited Tuesday at 12:53 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

18 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

…..Silver Fox……

There are certainly areas for improvement in shape, reliability, robustness and livery.

In all three of these, SF is mediocre to poor, but thus far has been the only option. In livery alone, despite being given correct information several times, ALL their CIE liveries have been completely wrong, from base colour to lettering and numerals, bar their black’n’tan coaches. They  could at least get that right at no extra cost.

[DJ Dangerous]

Silver Fox C Class combined with SSM detailing kit would probably do the job in the interim, so to beat that, the 3D printed model would need to be very detailed.

Possible that the slow-selling A Classes are only slow in the UK. The few that I’ve seen in here and on Adverts.ie have sold very quickly.

Just out of curiosity, I searched ebay, just now, even using the co.uk platform, to no avail. No A Classes show up. Perhaps British sellers are put off by post-BrExit customs shenanigans, and don’t want to deal with the hassle of shipping outside the UK.

[WRENNEIRE]

A Class? I know a man.......

[DJ Dangerous]

6 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

A Class? I know a man.......

A Class, and not Class A?

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Silver Fox C Class combined with SSM detailing kit would probably do the job in the interim, so to beat that, the 3D printed model would need to be very detailed.

Possible that the slow-selling A Classes are only slow in the UK. The few that I’ve seen in here and on Adverts.ie have sold very quickly.

Just out of curiosity, I searched ebay, just now, even using the co.uk platform, to no avail. No A Classes show up. Perhaps British sellers are put off by post-BrExit customs shenanigans, and don’t want to deal with the hassle of shipping outside the UK.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396943187641

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236242734454

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365773907754

All these three come up on my search and all are on the island of Ireland, though only one south of the border.

Interesting to hear that they go quickly on Adverts.ie. Of course it may be a matter of price.

I did wonder if Wrenneire might have a few in the stash!

49 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Thanks @Mol_PMB - quite agree. I’m just coming at it from the perspective of a scratchbuilder and someone conscious of his own mortality An IRM C class could be 5 years off….

I almost wish I'd kept my old Q kits resin bodyshell from decades ago. 

[DJ Dangerous]

10 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396943187641

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236242734454

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365773907754

All these three come up on my search and all are on the island of Ireland, though only one south of the border.

Interesting to hear that they go quickly on Adverts.ie. Of course it may be a matter of price.

I did wonder if Wrenneire might have a few in the stash!

I almost wish I'd kept my old Q kits resin bodyshell from decades ago. 

€400 for an A Class?????

Jaysus, Class A would be cheaper.

No international shipping, and only visible via the url, none appear via a search, so no surprise there.

[Mayner]

14 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

So you say there’s no demand for more A Class locos, that’s a shame. An A Class re-run could be announced tomorrow with the locos already in stock, and we’d be none the wiser.

Probably at least three or four years before having a C Class on sale, and delaying the Park Royals that long wouldn’t make sense.

Fran wrote a piece on RM Web about the 1st batch of new RTR models usually selling out and the 2nd batch ending up on clearance, and the significantly higher level of demand (3 times) for the Accurascale Class 37 (despite being duplicated by other manufacturers) compared with both the Class 89 and the ex-GE Buck.

So would not exactly hold my breath for IRM or MM to release a C Class/B201

From a loco to haul a Park Royal perspective the Cs/201 Class had largely ceased to haul passenger trains following the commissioning on the DART in 84?, single 141/181s largely taking their place on Dublin Outer Suburban services, the remaining 201s largely restricted to shunting duties at North Wall.

The Park-Royals were banned from fast Cork Line passenger services during the late 80s, I last travelled in trains made up of refurbished Park Royal Ciaches (interior spruced up) between Mallow & Killarney (possibly a Cork Tralee service) and Connolly and Drogheda in 88-89, Cork-Tralee possibly 001 or a 141/181 Connolly-Drogheda 141/181

When all is said and done the old Q kits A & C Class could be assembled into quite presentable models!

I picked up mine in finished in early 80s condition second hand from the Belfast Caboose about 30 years ago and re-gauged its Athearn mech to run on 21mm gauge for use on the MRSI Loughrea layout and hasn't been run in about 20 years like most of my locos! The original builder did a nice job including flush glazed windows and windscreen wipers, I passed up on a MIR 071 finished to a similar standard too large and modern for my tastes and would have severley stretched the budget.

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:14 by Mayner

[DJ Dangerous]

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

Fran wrote a piece on RM Web about the 1st batch of new RTR models usually selling out and the 2nd batch ending up on clearance, and the significantly higher level of demand (3 times) for the Accurascale Class 37 (despite being duplicated by other manufacturers) compared with both the Class 89 and the ex-GE Buck.

So would not exactly hold my breath for IRM or MM to release a C Class/B201

From a loco to haul a Park Royal perspective the Cs/201 Class had largely ceased to haul passenger trains following the commissioning on the DART in 84?, single 141/181s largely taking their place on Dublin Outer Suburban services, the remaining 201s largely restricted to shunting duties at North Wall.

The Park-Royals were banned from fast Cork Line passenger services during the late 80s, I last travelled in trains made up of refurbished Park Royal Ciaches (interior spruced up) between Mallow & Killarney (possibly a Cork Tralee service) and Connolly and Drogheda in 88-89, Cork-Tralee possibly 001 or a 141/181 Connolly-Drogheda 141/181

When all is said and done the old Q kits A & C Class could be assembled into quite presentable models!

I picked up mine in finished in early 80s condition second hand from the Belfast Caboose about 30 years ago and re-gauged its Athearn mech to run on 21mm gauge for use on the MRSI Loughrea layout and hasn't been run in about 20 years like most of my locos! The original builder did a nice job including flush glazed windows and windscreen wipers, I passed up on a MIR 071 finished to a similar standard too large and modern for my tastes and would have severley stretched the budget.

 

That makes sense.

We have Hunslets on the way, 800’s on the way, 071’s on the way, 201’s on the way, 22000’s on the way and DART+ on the way, in the “powered” category.

Adding a new-tool on top at this point in time seems reckless and feckless.

The Irish market being so small relative to the UK market has to increase / decrease figures by a huge magnitude, too.

[Mol_PMB]

For me, the Hunslets and the 800s have much less appeal than the C class (I have ordered a Hunslet though). There were only 3 of each and they had a very restricted operational range, both in geography and time.

The C class, if we include the MV class and the preserved examples, cover 70 years, there were over ten times as many of them, and a dozen different liveries. During the course of their lives they worked all over Ireland - Valentia Harbour - Ballina - Derry - Bangor - Howth - Rosslare - Dungarvan - Youghal - Skibbereen and everywhere in between. Surely these would sell? And a lot of the complex shape and details have already been worked out for the A class models. The mechanism and bogies could be closely based on the Hunslets.

Not immediately, for sure, but I really hope they do appear. Sign me up for at least 4 of them.

[DJ Dangerous]

14 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

For me, the Hunslets and the 800s have much less appeal than the C class (I have ordered a Hunslet though). There were only 3 of each and they had a very restricted operational range, both in geography and time.

The C class, if we include the MV class and the preserved examples, cover 70 years, there were over ten times as many of them, and a dozen different liveries. During the course of their lives they worked all over Ireland - Valentia Harbour - Ballina - Derry - Bangor - Howth - Rosslare - Dungarvan - Youghal - Skibbereen and everywhere in between. Surely these would sell? And a lot of the complex shape and details have already been worked out for the A class models. The mechanism and bogies could be closely based on the Hunslets.

Not immediately, for sure, but I really hope they do appear. Sign me up for at least 4 of them.

C Class would definitely not sell if released on top of the current avalanche of models, but if released at a strategically planned point in time, would go like hot cakes. Forum members have been crying out for an RTR C Class the past decade.

Price point would also be worth reflection. Assuming that a re-run of a loco will be around the €200 mark, and a new tool would be €275, generalising that based on the last few years of A/S pricing, waiting for a gap in the market would be important, along with pondering which would sell better, and offer a better return, for similar spec locos, the €200 re-run or the €275 new tool.

I’d definitely take a few C Classes! Just not right now. My Silver Fox pair just don’t quite fit in with the amazing detail on newer models. Exaggerating slightly, here, but they remind me of those little blocks of Shamrock marzipan you could get years ago, when sat beside an IRM A Class.

Based on anecdotal evidence such as second-hand A Class sales, new 141 sales, and reduced batch sizes from A/S for Hunslets and 800’s, has UK demand for Irish locos already peaked?

Will we be looking at a five year wait for a C Class, priced at €300 per unit, and produced in very limited numbers, mainly going to Irish buyers?

Or will we have one next year for €220, to haul our Park Royals, snapped up like hot cakes?

I guess the ones with the best perspective on likely sales demographics are A/S themselves.

I’d say the former is more likely, if things continue in the direction they have been going.

 

[Ironroad]

Oh Dave, please don't put the kybosh, on a Class C.

I can understand the Hunslet project is a consequence of the release of the NIR MK2 coaches which in turn were a logical extension of the UK Mk2s, and it's wonderful to see a model  of a prototype of which there were only three that didn't circulate widely being offered and selling well. 

That being the case it seems logical that models of items such as the Class C and AEC rail cars which were ubiquitous for a long period of time, would be a standout success regardless as to how much seems to be coming on stream. Both also complement the Park Royals. It also seems to me that what is currently in the pipeline is long promised and there is pent up demand for more. Personally while it's great to see the 800's in that pipeline I would have preferred to have seen that effort applied to the more mundane stuff that was everywhere.

My message to IRM is "bring it on"

[DJ Dangerous]

Here ya go, perfect for those Park Royals:

https://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-201-class-c-class-bo-bo-metropolitan-vickers/
 

https://studio-scale-models.com/ACkit.shtml