eBay Watch

[jhb171achill]

I was proposing to sell a couple of surplus locomotives on fleabay shortly (still haven't decided whether I WANT to sell them or not). If I do decide to sell them, this presumably seriously dents my potential market?

Say I gave them to a friend of mine in the north to sell them? Anyone know what the issues are?

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

I was proposing to sell a couple of surplus locomotives on fleabay shortly (still haven't decided whether I WANT to sell them or not). If I do decide to sell them, this presumably seriously dents my potential market?

Say I gave them to a friend of mine in the north to sell them? Anyone know what the issues are?

Why not get your friend in the north to advertise them, while you advertise in the EU, and whoever bags a sale ships the locos?

Or you could offer first choice here on the forum!

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Why not get your friend in the north to advertise them, while you advertise in the EU, and whoever bags a sale ships the locos?

Or you could offer first choice here on the forum!

That's what I'm thinking......

[DJ Dangerous]

1 minute ago, jhb171achill said:

That's what I'm thinking......

If there's a grey 071 in there, PM me!

[jhb171achill]

Just now, DJ Dangerous said:

If there's a grey 071 in there, PM me!

Tis shteam stuff!

[DJ Dangerous]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

Tis shteam stuff!

I don't know what that is...

To me, the old days mean the IR era...

[jhb171achill]

31 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

I don't know what that is...

To me, the old days mean the IR era...

Hahahaha! Genuinely, to me, 071s are a bit "modern"; I have to confess to having little or no interest in much on the railways after 1970..... I spent the 1980s travelling to Southern Africa, the Indian subcontinent and the far east to take photos of working steam engines, while my good colleagues and friends back here were chasing bogie wagons and 071s!

Mind you, for fans of goods trains with bogie wagons, and no guard's vans, there is what I hope to be a treat in store, planned to be on bookshelves next year......

 

[Colin R]

47 minutes ago, Robert Shrives said:

As a result the market will cool for a while the implications and ramifications sink in and adjustments made to the lack of  easy of purchases. I guess we just had it lucky now the pain that others around the globe trying to trade will be experienced in this bit of the globe.   Like the U boats in the early years - the happy days are over.

I am sorry that the UK has gone down this isolationist path but at least it does mean it can return albeit a poorer player in future years.   

Robert

Hi Robert, this may sound selfish but this could kill off any more Irish model kits being produced over here in the UK.

I was going to go into rant mode but have stop myself from doing so. All we can do is hope the trade deal is successful and it works out well for both sides.

Colin Rainsbury

[murphaph]

Surely most model kits are made and consumed in the UK? The hobby is comparatively tiny in Ireland (unfortunately). I would expect little interruption for the modeller in the UK. Outside the UK it's another matter though. Brexit is really throwing a spanner in the works here. I met a chap in Potsdam on the weekend and he is a UK/Ireland outline layout builder and exhibitor (Ontrax quality). He's been stocking up on smaller bits and pieces as he expects the shutters to effectively come crashing down in January. It just won't be worth the hassle for many smaller UK based sellers.

As well as that it has kind of flown under the radar but the €22 threshold on VAT/duty is to be abolished EU wide from June next year. That means every single item no matter how cheap will go through customs and will have a handling fee slapped on it by your local postal service. The idea is to prevent the fraud which is certainly widespread (who hasn't received a $5 "gift" from China that really cost more like 50?) by simply making online purchases from outside the EU too much hassle/too expensive so EU traders can get the business instead. Unfortunately in our hobby there is little interest outside the UK so we will not see an EU dealer of Shawplan Lazerglaze or whatever niche kit maker's products you can think of. 

[jhb171achill]

15 minutes ago, Colin R said:

Hi Robert, this may sound selfish but this could kill off any more Irish model kits being produced over here in the UK.

I was going to go into rant mode but have stop myself from doing so. All we can do is hope the trade deal is successful and it works out well for both sides.

Colin Rainsbury

It would be VERY easy to "go into rant mode" over that! I will similarly restrain myself!

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Hahahaha! Genuinely, to me, 071s are a bit "modern"; I have to confess to having little or no interest in much on the railways after 1970..... I spent the 1980s travelling to Southern Africa, the Indian subcontinent and the far east to take photos of working steam engines, while my good colleagues and friends back here were chasing bogie wagons and 071s!

Mind you, for fans of goods trains with bogie wagons, and no guard's vans, there is what I hope to be a treat in store, planned to be on bookshelves next year......

 

 

For me, the A's are the rickety old rust-buckets of yesteryear, the 121's, 141's, 181's and 071's are the locos of today, and the 201's are "new" yokes, a bit funny looking because they don't have walkways along the sides.

Hopefully, you also mean virtual bookshelves!

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

For me, the A's are the rickety old rust-buckets of yesteryear, the 121's, 141's, 181's and 071's are the locos of today, and the 201's are "new" yokes, a bit funny looking because they don't have walkways along the sides.

Hopefully, you also mean virtual bookshelves!

To my late male parent, anything which wasn't steam was about as interesting as a wet February Tuesday morning in Tuam!

Each to our own...........!!  

[WRENNEIRE]

If you use eBay.ie and sell your bits here there should be no extra fees JB?

[DoctorPan]

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Bachman-irish-Rail-model-wagons/254782383445?hash=item3b5236a555:g:G6MAAOSwMp9ftX~W

 

Some HOBs have popped up

[Noel]

54 minutes ago, DoctorPan said:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Bachman-irish-Rail-model-wagons/254782383445?hash=item3b5236a555:g:G6MAAOSwMp9ftX~W

 

Some HOBs have popped up

I remember when I first saw those in 'the model shop portlaoise' about 6 years ago and was astonished that two model train wagons could cost as much as €70 for a pair, and they didn't even carry passengers nor goods merchandise  Yellow stuff, which I passed on at the time, but with hindsight perhaps a mistake.

[Georgeconna]

On 18/11/2020 at 7:58 PM, murphaph said:

Surely most model kits are made and consumed in the UK? The hobby is comparatively tiny in Ireland (unfortunately). I would expect little interruption for the modeller in the UK. Outside the UK it's another matter though. Brexit is really throwing a spanner in the works here. I met a chap in Potsdam on the weekend and he is a UK/Ireland outline layout builder and exhibitor (Ontrax quality). He's been stocking up on smaller bits and pieces as he expects the shutters to effectively come crashing down in January. It just won't be worth the hassle for many smaller UK based sellers.

As well as that it has kind of flown under the radar but the €22 threshold on VAT/duty is to be abolished EU wide from June next year. That means every single item no matter how cheap will go through customs and will have a handling fee slapped on it by your local postal service. The idea is to prevent the fraud which is certainly widespread (who hasn't received a $5 "gift" from China that really cost more like 50?) by simply making online purchases from outside the EU too much hassle/too expensive so EU traders can get the business instead. Unfortunately in our hobby there is little interest outside the UK so we will not see an EU dealer of Shawplan Lazerglaze or whatever niche kit maker's products you can think of. 

Local model shops will be the winners here with these changes. Gone for me is buying 40 handrail stanchions a go for one shipment, I will have to consol everything now and make one large purchase to cut the post fees down to a min or I can customs clear my own stuff and avoid any charges which is probably what I will do.

Say rails with the 121,  Current cost €176.23 including post. Add in a 10 for processing then bang goes any savings per one loco order. You will be going local. Multiple buys you still save a few notes, A lot smaller though. Rails wont promise shipping all your oder in one go so I will take on the suggestion of Hattons drop box as DC advised.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Georgeconna

[Ironroad]

On 18/11/2020 at 2:58 PM, murphaph said:

Surely most model kits are made and consumed in the UK? The hobby is comparatively tiny in Ireland (unfortunately). I would expect little interruption for the modeller in the UK. Outside the UK it's another matter though. Brexit is really throwing a spanner in the works here. I met a chap in Potsdam on the weekend and he is a UK/Ireland outline layout builder and exhibitor (Ontrax quality). He's been stocking up on smaller bits and pieces as he expects the shutters to effectively come crashing down in January. It just won't be worth the hassle for many smaller UK based sellers.

As well as that it has kind of flown under the radar but the €22 threshold on VAT/duty is to be abolished EU wide from June next year. That means every single item no matter how cheap will go through customs and will have a handling fee slapped on it by your local postal service. The idea is to prevent the fraud which is certainly widespread (who hasn't received a $5 "gift" from China that really cost more like 50?) by simply making online purchases from outside the EU too much hassle/too expensive so EU traders can get the business instead. Unfortunately in our hobby there is little interest outside the UK so we will not see an EU dealer of Shawplan Lazerglaze or whatever niche kit maker's products you can think of. 

Agree, but I don't think it is all doom and gloom. I'm old enough to remember how things were before the customs union. Back then while both Ireland and the UK were in the EU, export sales to another EU country were zero rated for the purposes of VAT. So being pre internet, I used to make mail order purchases from Hattons. (instead of a weekly e-mail they used to send a monthly listing of their offerings probably produced with a typewriter stencil and a Gestetner duplicating machine). I never had the experience of having any of these parcels stopped and assessed for Irish VAT. I'll grant that the Revenue and PO are now much more sophisticated and it is unlikely mail imports would now escape the net. But keep in mind in the worst case scenario of no agreement between the EU and UK, the likelihood is that UK export sales will not be subject to UK sales tax but subject to sales tax in the country of importation in the EU.  One more or less offsets the other, the real additional cost being processing fees.

The real problem is with purchases from small producers who are not registered for VAT. There will be no reduction by the deduction of UK VAT because it isn't (or shouldn't) be in the price to begin with and so this price will be inflated by the application of VAT at the prevailing rate in the country of importation. Note that while I have not checked recently from memory the threshold at which businesses in the UK are required to registered for VAT is about GBP 75k annual sales and I suspect there are some smaller outfits who say they are not registered but actually are and they may need to rethink this if they are to retain export sales.   Regardless, as has been noted it will probably be prudent to consolidate purchases to the best extent possible to minimise import processing fees.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Ironroad
omission

[Strimmers]

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Iarnrod-Eireann-Bachmann-MK2-auto-ballaster-set-Mint/193752142960?hash=item2d1c871470:g:wa8AAOSwSYVfsZv2 

over a 100% return here a set with a €170 bid

[murphaph]

A model shop in Newry suddenly makes a lot of sense lol. The super low duty and vat thresholds on postal delivery don't apply to stuff personally imported. Customers could cross the border and bring up to €430 per traveling adult and bring it over duty and tax free back home duty and tax free.

If you go as a family each child has a €215 allowance.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/customs-information-for-travelling-and-duty-free-allowances/travelling-from-outside-the-eu/duty-free-allowances.aspx

[Si2020]

8 hours ago, Ironroad said:

 Note that while I have not checked recently from memory the threshold at which businesses in the UK are required to registered for VAT is about GBP 75k annual sales and I suspect there are some smaller outfits who say they are not registered but actually are and they may need to rethink this if they are to retain export sales.   Regardless, as has been noted it will probably be prudent to consolidate purchases to the best extent possible to minimise import processing fees.

HI,

Ive removed a bit of your post so its just the relevent bit.

Just to correct you slightly its £85K as any income into the busniess before deductions.

Its also my understanding that by law you are not allowed to hide the fact that you are paying VAT and you have to display the VAT number on any recipets/invoices that show VAT.

Thanks

Simon

Edited November 20, 2020 by Si2020
correct info

[Ironroad]

5 hours ago, Si2020 said:

HI,

Ive removed a bit of your post so its just the relevent bit.

Just to correct you slightly its £85K as any income into the busniess before deductions.

Its also my understanding that by law you are not allowed to hide the fact that you are paying VAT and you have to display the VAT number on any recipets/invoices that show VAT.

Thanks

Simon

Thank you, as I said I hadn't checked the limit recently and was going on memory. And you are correct in stating traders are obliged to declare their VAT registration number on invoices but some may not be in compliance. The purpose of displaying the registration number is to give legitimacy to the charging of VAT particularly to other traders who are also registered and can recoup that VAT. However, by law the full VAT inclusive price must be advertised to consumers without necessarily showing a breakdown, and this opens the door to simply declaring a price with no reference to as to whether it contains VAT or not. Accordingly my suggestion is that before ordering from any entity that does not make the basis of their pricing clear, ask whether the price is VAT inclusive.

Take a look at the Olivia's Trains website, they are registered for VAT but are not exactly compliant with the concept of zero rating sales to non EU destinations.  

[skinner75]

I couldn't handle the way they do things in the USA, where even prices of goods on the shelves in a supermarket don't have tax included! 

[Georgeconna]

8 hours ago, murphaph said:

A model shop in Newry suddenly makes a lot of sense lol. The super low duty and vat thresholds on postal delivery don't apply to stuff personally imported. Customers could cross the border and bring up to €430 per traveling adult and bring it over duty and tax free back home duty and tax free.

If you go as a family each child has a €215 allowance.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/customs-information-for-travelling-and-duty-free-allowances/travelling-from-outside-the-eu/duty-free-allowances.aspx

Hide all those 121's in Whisky bottles!

 

[Si2020]

3 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Thank you, as I said I hadn't checked the limit recently and was going on memory. And you are correct in stating traders are obliged to declare their VAT registration number on invoices but some may not be in compliance. The purpose of displaying the registration number is to give legitimacy to the charging of VAT particularly to other traders who are also registered and can recoup that VAT. However, by law the full VAT inclusive price must be advertised to consumers without necessarily showing a breakdown, and this opens the door to simply declaring a price with no reference to as to whether it contains VAT or not. Accordingly my suggestion is that before ordering from any entity that does not make the basis of their pricing clear, ask whether the price is VAT inclusive.

Take a look at the Olivia's Trains website, they are registered for VAT but are not exactly compliant with the concept of zero rating sales to non EU destinations.  

Having worked in a Model shop and as you say and we were told the same thing by the VAT representative that any prices displayed in the shop or website are to include VAT but it hasn't got to be listed as a seprate price and the onus was on the customer to ask for the deduction if via mail order/phone/website if the destination was not in the VAT zone. If they where present and made a purchase in shop the price was to stay the same and the customer was to ask for VAT reclaim form at customs at the point of exit to claim the VAT cost back. Your not suppose to remove it at the shop.

Having said that the rules/procedures may have changed as that was 6 years ago before I set up my own buisness and luckly I'm not near having to think about payng VAT but that may change in the next few years

[Ironroad]

11 minutes ago, Si2020 said:

Having worked in a Model shop and as you say and we were told the same thing by the VAT representative that any prices displayed in the shop or website are to include VAT but it hasn't got to be listed as a seprate price and the onus was on the customer to ask for the deduction if via mail order/phone/website if the destination was not in the VAT zone. If they where present and made a purchase in shop the price was to stay the same and the customer was to ask for VAT reclaim form at customs at the point of exit to claim the VAT cost back. Your not suppose to remove it at the shop.

Having said that the rules/procedures may have changed as that was 6 years ago before I set up my own buisness and luckly I'm not near having to think about payng VAT but that may change in the next few years

Basically correct, however I do not agree that a  retailer should put the onus on the foreign mail order customer to ask for the VAT reduction, that should be automatically granted based on the foreign address the goods are being dispatched to. (no argument about VAT liability if delivery is taken at the shop or the possibility of recouping this on exiting the state assuming the facility exists).  In fact a registered retailer should see this as a competitive advantage over an unregistered retailer.  But it does seem to me that the fact a great many sellers are not open about this is grounds for suspicion.  

 

[BosKonay]

Or you can automatically remove vat for sales outside the EU, as we have done at IRM for example. 

[jhb171achill]

I'm not one bit ashamed to say that in the late 1960s and onwards I often applied my creative juices to finding ways not to bother the people at the border with the nice white hats, with extra paperwork.

As the generation before me had done; and I will happily pass cultural traditional skills onwards, if it becomes necessary!

[WRENNEIRE]

Be careful JB, I'm still on commission......

[Si2020]

12 hours ago, Ironroad said:

Basically correct, however I do not agree that a  retailer should put the onus on the foreign mail order customer to ask for the VAT reduction, that should be automatically granted based on the foreign address the goods are being dispatched to. (no argument about VAT liability if delivery is taken at the shop or the possibility of recouping this on exiting the state assuming the facility exists).  In fact a registered retailer should see this as a competitive advantage over an unregistered retailer.  But it does seem to me that the fact a great many sellers are not open about this is grounds for suspicion.  

 

The information about the customer requesting the VAT removal came from a HMRC representative when they came to do a spot check. As a UK busniess man you are taught by the banks and told when chatting with other owners that if the HMRC says jump you jump and then ask how high as if you dont do things right you get hit with hefty fines.

You can't always rely on the address being forgein, the number of parcels I've had to recover for Ireland due my address having County Durham in it.

I don't know if you have even had to fill in the mountain of paper work to deal with VAT and I think this more off putting for small busniess as once you are VAT regestered its VAT on every single item that you sell and if you are only selling say 10 items a year overseas its a lot of effort and costs to the busniess so the customer can have abit of extra money taken off.

I've also seen it reduce a company from making enough for the owner to live on to only just breaking even. I think that the person in question actually closed a few months after becoming VAT regestered.   Again even HMRC tell you to stay unregestered for as long as you can.

 

This is one of those topics that everyone will have thier own views on and it can go on and on.

[jhb171achill]

11 hours ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Be careful JB, I'm still on commission......

Can we split it?

[Noel]

On 18/11/2020 at 7:31 PM, jhb171achill said:

Hahahaha! Genuinely, to me, 071s are a bit "modern"; I have to confess to having little or no interest in much on the railways after 1970..... I spent the 1980s travelling to Southern Africa, the Indian subcontinent and the far east to take photos of working steam engines, while my good colleagues and friends back here were chasing bogie wagons and 071s!

Mind you, for fans of goods trains with bogie wagons, and no guard's vans, there is what I hope to be a treat in store, planned to be on bookshelves next year......

 

Love it Jonathan, I’m with you on that. For me the railways became operationally boring after 1975 before the bogie, yellow and uniform stock infestation and pandemic started. However ‘viva la difference’.  I do like the look of IR tippex Livery baby GMs even though well into the modern image era. I tolerate a pair of 201s because I’ve travelled behind them a lot in the past 10 years, but they are as boring looking as airbrushed peat briquettes or shoeboxes with bogies.  22k should be restricted to the fisher price section of Smyth’s toy stores (ie beside the yo-yo basket). I Confess I do have some modern image stock, 071, 201, mk2, mk3, and quite a lot of top quality RTR bogie stock from the Fab Four. I like the variety but my heart is beset with nostalgia for a bygone era that model trains allow us to relive in miniature, 50s & 60s 2 axle goods trains and pick’n’mix formations of early CIE and exGSWR passenger trains. The glory days when the railways were interesting operationally as well as a visual feast before all the station point work was ripped up and major stations demoted to almost bus shelter status. Thank merciful hour the Luas doesn’t run between Dublin and Cork.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

 I Confess I do have some modern image stock, 

Confession time; a Murphy or IRM-standard 80 class would be welcome in my house, even though in real life I saw them as too modern, dull BR design and NOISY and rattly to travel in the power cars! I could be persuaded to take a two-car 2700 too, quality permitting, and fertiliser wagons I thought long and hard about. 
 

Each to their own, of course. We always have “steam-deniers” in our midst!

[K801]

On 20/11/2020 at 10:14 AM, skinner75 said:

I couldn't handle the way they do things in the USA, where even prices of goods on the shelves in a supermarket don't have tax included! 

several US states charge no tax and the rest charge under 10%

[Noel]

Sanity returns, perhaps. Bachmann/MM Mk2a https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Murphy-Models-IR-Intercity-Mark-2A-Open-Second-Coach/193760494878?hash=item2d1d06851e:g:MhUAAOSwSRlfuU7H

[Keitheg6]

10 hours ago, Noel said:

Sanity returns, perhaps. Bachmann/MM Mk2a https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Murphy-Models-IR-Intercity-Mark-2A-Open-Second-Coach/193760494878?hash=item2d1d06851e:g:MhUAAOSwSRlfuU7H

I still think they are the better rtr coach to date! lovely coaches